Stick Build going up...I got a "STOP' work order

[gto65goat]

I've done everything by the book, and now this.

Apparently, some neighbors who live behind my home and the garage I'm building in my back yard, have complained to Anne Arundel County Planning & Permits, about the height of my garage.
At first the garage was to be 16 feet tall, as measured from the apron to the peak. 4 / 12 pitch. 25' x 28' deep.

The builder whom I've contracted, suggested that I add a 4 foot kneewall...
so I could walk freely while storing things in the attic, that way, I wouldn't have to bend over. He said I could go as high as 25 feet tall.

So I re-did my auto-cad drawings, and paid a visit to AA CO. Planning & Permits,...submitted my revised drawing package, and two days later they were approved. I have the stamped approved drawings in my possession.

Friday, my contractor had just about completed the installing of the roof sheathing, when an Inspector shows up, and puts the Stop Work order on us.

The Inspector got really PO'd at the builder, thinking he took it upon himself to dictate the height to 20 feet. My builder came back and said the owner (me) got approval from Planning & Permits two weeks ago...which is true, which made the Inspector that much more furious.

The problem as I see it...the law was changed last year...that says...no detached garage may be built taller then what the house is tall (House is 17' tall). My builder was not aware of that, so he says.

Now we have to wait for a ruling to come down later this week.

Its just upseting that my drawing package was approved, and now more red tape.

Just venting...thanks for reading.

 

[kbs2244]

Clearly, your argument is that the builder is not at fault for not knowing about the law change. His job is to build to the plans.
The inspectors job is to see that it is built to plan. Not to approve the plans.
The building department seems to be at fault. They are to check for those kind of details. It is their reason for existing, If they messed up, it is an internal to the department problem. Someone may get reproved, even fired, but that is not your concern. Or the inspectors. Or the builders.
If you have approved plans, you win.
I would guess your stop work order will not last through the first appeal.
If you get the OK to continue, work dawn to dusk to get it done. It is hard to “stop Work” on a finished building.

 

[bmwpower]

Worst comes to worst, you have to get a variance. They won't make you take it down.

Just find out which neighbor complained and put them on your blacklist.

 

[OldCarGuy]

I had somewhat the same problem in the last community that I lived in. It was over the additional driveway I wanted to add. I originally had my cement contractor put the forms in (that were not on the plans) along with a footer pour. After the inspector gave a go ahead two police cars and the building commissioner appeared! You thought I was having free coffee and donuts! Low and behold a neighbor called and bitched. After two months of haggling with the city, and knowing that that neighbor would have to sign off on a variance, I put off that cement work.

A year later I snuck that cement addition along with another building project. The building department signed off. When the inspector showed up for checking the forms, he remembered the last time and said I should check at the office before I pour. As soon as he left, knowing that neighbor was at a bridge club meeting, I called for the mixers. I had a signed off print, let them take me to court! Nothing was said; but my neighbor never talk with me since. No loss!

You have a good case with the signed off print for the height increase. I cannot believe that the city could make you tare it down. Got to love government bureaucracy..

 

[JMURiz]

As long as the contractor has the stamped plans and is working from those, you should be OK...as long as they are accurate to what is being built.

If you have the stamped drawings, showing them to this inspector should be good enough.

BTW I hate neighbors...had my rear neighbor call the cops because my workers had to go into their yard while felling a tree, so it didn't fall into their yard...grrrrrr. Guess I'll just have to take back the 1.7' their fence in on my property, that'll learn em!

Best of luck dealing with the county, I think the DC metro area is a big pain with building permits, you try and go by the book and get nabbed, while someone with connections builds **** and gets through scot-free.

 

[bmwpower]

If all else fails, call fairlaneman. He has a way with neighbors....

 

[tubeman]

Maybe you could just add 3 feet to your house!

 

[PAToyota]

Maybe you could just add 3 feet to your house!

Sounds like a good excuse for a cupola on the house...

 

[volvo]

Maybe you could just add 3 feet to your house!

Or build up the landscape a few feet to bring you into compliance should it come to that ??...H

 

[bluesman2a]

Maybe you could just add 3 feet to your house!

yeah, define "height" now would be a WONDERful time to add the cupola your wife has always wanted...

 

[1320stang]

Add some vents on the back of your garage.

 

[PAToyota]

Or build up the landscape a few feet to bring you into compliance should it come to that ??...H

Actually, my neighbors just did that with a fence... They wouldn't let them do an 8' fence, so they built a 2' retaining wall, graded up to it, and put a 6' fence on top of it...

 

[V-10 Killer]

Add some vents on the back of your garage.

I like it!

 

[Junkman]

A local building material supplier applied for a permit for a new building, and received the permit from the town. The plans clearly showed where the building was to be located, and all aspects of the building. When the building was done, they installed a red roof, which the neighbors didn't like. The complained to the town that the building was too close to the property lines, too big, to high, and the roof was too RED! The town had previously signed off on all aspects of the building, except for the roof color. In the end, the town wouldn't give them a occupancy permit for the building because it was too close to the property lines, too big, too high, but didn't mention the red roof. It was the towns contention that they only approve the permits, but it is the person that is applying for the permit that is required to know that what they are building meets all town requirements. The company started to sue the town, and then decided to just close the business and lick the wounds of the wasted money on the building. Now, the property sits vacant, and the building has never been occupied. The town is the real looser, since they were a major employer and tax payer. I feel sorry for the land owner that is stuck with paying taxes on property that is vacant, and paying taxes on a building that can't be used. If a ordinary citizen screws up, they run the risk of making restitution or going to jail. When a municipal employee screws up, nothing happens and they usually get a raise for being stupid.

 

[volvo]

>
The guy next to me built a walk in shed only, about 16x20 , it has a real high barn style roof 18' high so that you can use it for storage. When he asked what I thought, I just told him to permit it from the city. Ok now this two story building sits 5' from my side yard and 3' from the rear. So now its all built and then the lady behind which her property sits up 10' on a retaining wall complains to the city that is blocking her view. Long story short city comes out and tells her tuff luck its to code and was permited, She *****'s and wines and plants trees to his the building..Then moves.....Good Luck.....H

 

[kbs2244]

PAT's idea about filling in to raise the ground level may be a good one.
It has become a common trick around here.
Put in a 2 or 3 foot berm and then an 6 or 8 foot fence on it.
Just be sure to put in any rain water drains before you pile up the dirt.
(I do like the coupla idea too. This all reminds me of a problem over in the UK with a crack in the windshieild. The law said it couldn't be allowed if it was in the part of the glass the wiper blades swept. My buddy couldn't afford a new windshield, so he went and got shorter wiper blades! Pissed off the inspectors, but they had to pass him. Letter of the law, and all that.)

 

[clmrhayden]

I live in AACO and did this 3x last year and back in 03. If you are zoned R-A RLD or R-1 then you are correct principal structure does not matter anything else and it is capped at principal structure.

What are you zoned? Did you talk to the planning a zoning office or just the permit office?

My lot was zoned r-2 but then 4 or 5 years ago it was rezoned r-1 because of this last year I was able to build a 24' 7" tall garage with only a 22' tall house.


Here are the setbacks

http://www.aacounty.org/IP/PAC/Setbacks.cfm


Here are the zoning maps

http://www.aacounty.org/PlanZone/SAP/

 

[caspian65]

Worst comes to worst, you have to get a variance. They won't make you take it down.

Don't be so sure there! I have a friend who DID have to take his garage down, for almost the same reason! Even though the city screwed up and gave him a permit, they did it mistakenly. The city came and tore it down and paid him for whatever money he had in it. It was a shame too, very nice workshop.

Here in Raleigh, NC, it is clearly written in the zoning laws that the "accessory building" cannot exceed the height of the "main building".

If this fella was to attach the garage to his house, it wouldn't matter how high it was.

 

[Kevin54]

Apparently, some neighbors who live behind my home and the garage I'm building in my back yard, have complained to Anne Arundel County Planning & Permits, about the height of my garage.

When it's all done and over with, I'd piss 'em off every chance I got. Paint the side of the garage that faces them, plum purple with green neon stripes and a strobe light in the upstairs window along with a tape of a bunch of bullfrogs croaking all night long. Then everytime you see them, just smile and wave

 

[volvo]

.
And don't forget to mention to them (city) how much extra per day this is costing you... If it lingers on more than a day or two/three, I would have your attorney shoot off a letter to them.....H

 

[cw_racefan]

That's what ticks me off about AA county. All the **** that the well connected builders get away with, like building houses on islands with no permits, building in the critical area and nothing happens, but then you or I Joe Blow citizen jump through all their hoops to do things legally, and **** like this happens. Sorry just had to vent about that!

Sorry to hear about your situation, given everything you've gone through to build it! I would have thought as long as it was built to the approved plans, the inspector couldn't just make his own rulings. Hopefully you will prevail and not have to change things yet again!

Craig

 

[thefairlaneman]

Worst comes to worst, you have to get a variance. They won't make you take it down.

Just find out which neighbor complained and put them on your blacklist.

How can you find out who complained. You never find out who complained. I would pay 1000 bucks to find out which neighbor complained about me.....and I WOULD get me some paybacks,,,,,,,,,big time

 

[bmwpower]

How can you find out who complained. You never find out who complained. I would pay 1000 bucks to find out which neighbor complained about me.....and I WOULD get me some paybacks,,,,,,,,,big time

A couple drinks...people talk.

 

[gto65goat]

Want everyone to know, I really appreciate the replys and suggestions:
I asked Planning & Permits who complained about the height of the garage, and of course their reply was "anonymous."

Now it looks like I will have to apply for a "variance"...seeings how the "Stick Build" structure is already in place, and my builder feels as though he shouldn't have to tear it down at his expense since the plans were approved by the Planning & Permits Dept.. He followed the drawings that were approved, and I feel as though he has a valid point.

This Variance deal could set me back until Thanksgiving what with having to place a sign in the front of the home for 30 days, and then the hearing date to follow.

So frustrating...like I said earlier...I tried to do everything by the book...any time I made changes to my design...I did visit Planning & Permits with updated drawings...paid my $40 for each change, and was eventually given the approval to continue...and what happens...it still blows up in my face.

Thanks again,
John

 

[OldCarGuy]

If I was in your shoes,, I would do what ever it would take to get the garage built to the new approved plans. If not just to get even with the spiteful neighbor. In order to receive a variance, you’ll need the signature of every neighbor. The one that doesn’t sign is the culprit!

I’d first put a lawsuit against the city. Sighting all the added costs and time that you have and will incurred, and asking for reimbursement. After all it’s the cities oversight that brought about these added costs. In the old days you couldn’t sue the government. But that isn’t true today. They have since paid out millions of dollars for their mistakes.

 

[PAToyota]

As OCG mentions, if you go for a variance and their are objections by neighbors there is a good chance you won't get the variance...

Based on the fact that your plans were approved and you were operating in good faith that there were no problems on the basis that they had been approved, I would also recommend seeking some legal advice before proceeding. At the very least, go for the cost of modifications to meet code from the city since the additional cost is due to them not catching it to begin with...

 

[Junkman]

If I was in your shoes,, I would do what ever it would take to get the garage built to the new approved plans. If not just to get even with the spiteful neighbor. In order to receive a variance, you’ll need the signature of every neighbor. The one that doesn’t sign is the culprit!

I’d first put a lawsuit against the city. Sighting all the added costs and time that you have and will incurred, and asking for reimbursement. After all it’s the cities oversight that brought about these added costs. In the old days you couldn’t sue the government. But that isn’t true today. They have since paid out millions of dollars for their mistakes.[/QUOTE]

As OCG mentions, if you go for a variance and their are objections by neighbors there is a good chance you won't get the variance...

Based on the fact that your plans were approved and you were operating in good faith that there were no problems on the basis that they had been approved, I would also recommend seeking some legal advice before proceeding. At the very least, go for the cost of modifications to meet code from the city since the additional cost is due to them not catching it to begin with...

Going after the city is going to be counter productive. The city can grant a variance even if there is objections from one or more of the neighbors, if the variance board feels that it is in the better good of the city and neighborhood. If you are suing the city, there is no reason for them to do anything to help you, and lots of reason just to deny the application. The last thing that you want to do is to cause them any reason not to be helpful. You can draw more flies with honey than with vinigar.....

 

[elvee]

I just had a similar issue, but only in the permitting phase. We did our designs, ran them through six builders for pricing, and finally picked the contractor. When he went for the permits (unincorporated Dekalb County, GA) they said no for three reasons: incorrect setback, too large by square footage, and too tall. I spent the next week talking to various county departments looking for answers. They were wrong on the square footage as our lot was large enough to allow the size we wanted, and the setback wasn't a big deal to fix. The overall height was the killer. For us, a detached accessory building can be 20ft tall OR it can be the height of the principal building, whichever is less. For more fun, they use two different methods to measure building height. Now for the fun part: if we made the garage an "attached structure" then we only had to conform to the zoning rules for the house - 35ft tall, no limit on footage, and the lesser setbacks. All it took was a breezeway.

I was told there was no way that I would be given a variance for height also.

The head inspector told me that, the day before I spoke with him, he had gone to a construction site and told the homeowners they had to tear the second story off their new garage because it was too tall. They hadn't read their permit which noted a change from the original design which indicated they had to reduce the overall height.

Good luck. It is a racket, no doubt.

 

[bmwpower]

In my town, you don't have to get signatures from anyone except the board. You file for a variance, then the variance info needs to be pubished in the local paper for x amount of days. The neighbors are supposed to use this avenue to check for things. If they don't see it in the paper and make their voice heard at the meeting, oh well. Then you go against the board. I brought a lawyer for a small fee since I was only 20-something and I needed some help. The lawyer took the lead and they let it pass with no problems. They did ask me what I was going to use it for (looking for me to talk about living space or business I assume), but I told them it was being built to restore classic cars...well someday my BMWs will be classics I guess....lol.

The moral is it depends on the township on how you need to go about getting these plans to pass and/or get a variance.

 

[Sundowner]

I have been through the planning board and variance processes. mine took me about 3 weeks shy of an entire year. Before you do ANYHTING, ask around the town who the "in" lawyer is with with the planning board and town. there's always one guy in town who has stood before your town's planning board and knows the rules and ordinances better then the planning board does. Find that lawyer and and retain him to review your situation. the resolution may be as simple as him writing a letter to the town planner citing legal precedents to your situation. Remember; you have certified documents from the town. whether or not they know it, that means something serious in a legal sense, and the right lawyer will know where to apply pressure to get them to back off.

 

[kbs2244]

I am with PAT an BMW on this.
Apply for the variance, and jump through whatever hoops they put in front of you.
Don’t lose you temper and start shouting about suing before you have gone through the hearing. It just jet people mad and set in their ways. Then they don’t listen to reason.
Do have a lawyer with you at the variance hearing. Their experience helps, and it shows everybody you are serious. Besides, they are often friends and golfing buddy’s of the people on the board. That helps.
If there are any hearing scheduled before yours, attend them. It gives you a lot of experience as to what goes on.
At the two variance hearings I have gone to, the objectors had to prove a ‘loss” or “detrimental effect.” It turned out that those terms meant money. The fact that they couldn’t watch the sunsets anymore didn’t count.

 

[PhantomEB]

Lucky me, I got a copy of the citys guidelines to garages and sheds sitting here, although its not a complete list or the provincial rules, and its looking like the worst I can get is a neighbor complaining but all my thoughts on a new garage will be in occordance with what I have here.

 

[Pure Oil]

I've done everything by the book, and now this.

Apparently, some neighbors who live behind my home and the garage I'm building in my back yard, have complained to Anne Arundel County Planning & Permits, about the height of my garage.
At first the garage was to be 16 feet tall, as measured from the apron to the peak. 4 / 12 pitch. 25' x 28' deep.

The builder whom I've contracted, suggested that I add a 4 foot kneewall...
so I could walk freely while storing things in the attic, that way, I wouldn't have to bend over. He said I could go as high as 25 feet tall.

So I re-did my auto-cad drawings, and paid a visit to AA CO. Planning & Permits,...submitted my revised drawing package, and two days later they were approved. I have the stamped approved drawings in my possession.

Friday, my contractor had just about completed the installing of the roof sheathing, when an Inspector shows up, and puts the Stop Work order on us.

The Inspector got really PO'd at the builder, thinking he took it upon himself to dictate the height to 20 feet. My builder came back and said the owner (me) got approval from Planning & Permits two weeks ago...which is true, which made the Inspector that much more furious.

The problem as I see it...the law was changed last year...that says...no detached garage may be built taller then what the house is tall (House is 17' tall). My builder was not aware of that, so he says.

Now we have to wait for a ruling to come down later this week.

Its just upseting that my drawing package was approved, and now more red tape.

Just venting...thanks for reading.

Well guess what? You need to put in a new garden & really prep the soil with a whole lot of fish emulsion (smells like really bad you know what) you can buy it at a garden center. That neighbor will be gagging & you can be laughing. PS Good Luck on your project!

 

[Bigger Hammer]

I am with PAT an BMW on this.
Apply for the variance, and jump through whatever hoops they put in front of you.
Don’t lose you temper and start shouting about suing before you have gone through the hearing. It just jet people mad and set in their ways. Then they don’t listen to reason.
Do have a lawyer with you at the variance hearing. Their experience helps, and it shows everybody you are serious. Besides, they are often friends and golfing buddy’s of the people on the board. That helps.
If there are any hearing scheduled before yours, attend them. It gives you a lot of experience as to what goes on.
At the two variance hearings I have gone to, the objectors had to prove a ‘loss” or “detrimental effect.” It turned out that those terms meant money. The fact that they couldn’t watch the sunsets anymore didn’t count.

This is the most beneficial advice so far. While some of the retaliation tactics might be fun and give you some personal satisfaction, you will ultimately pay in the long run with someone you crossed in the process.

I deal with city inspectors and fire marshals all the time and trust me, they are the people you need to work with. I'm on a commercial project right now where the owner stepped on the fire marshal's toes one too many times and it is now costing them upwards of 50k and rising plus jumping through variance hoops to get around some of his other demands.
I laugh because everyone bad mouths this guy to no end but he and I get along great and its simply because I work with him. When I'm standing there having a friendly conversation with the fire marshal and ask him to help me out by cutting me some slack on something, it usually goes my way as long as I'm within reason.

Good luck to you, hope it doesn't derail the project too badly and cost you a bunch of $$

 

[gto65goat]

For those who have contributed to this post...I thought I would update you on what is going on:

September 7th I received a "resiend notice" from Anne Arundel County, Maryland, Planning & Permits Dept., requesting I fill out a Variance form, and return to their office, so a "hearing date" could be arranged.

Keep in mind, I had already received the "approval" from Planning & Permits concerning my revised plans, on August 9th, which added a kneewall, and conventional stairs versus pull down stairs.

The new kneewall design does in fact surpass the main home height by approximately (2) feet, but then again the plans had been approved and my contractor worked to the approved plans. (The stick build was completed by the time the contractor got a verbal "stop work" notice). He was in the process of completing the adding of roof felt, when the inspector showed up.
A tarp was added over the entire roof the next day...nothing done since.

Bottom Line - More red tape, and another confrontation with my neighbor or neighbors in approximately 6 weeks time.

Damn, and I was hoping to have all completed by Thanksgiving...more like next spring now.:

 

[thefairlaneman]

A couple drinks...people talk.

I dont drink.I am the worse kind of ********. I get my paybacks and am stone sober while I do it. Heres what you do.go get an old school bus and paint it up like a bunch of deadheads have toured in it and park it in the best place so the neighbor can see it. Theres not a thing he can do about it. Surely you are not restricted on what kind of vehicle you can have in your driveway........This will really piss off the neighbor. Maybe you can paint a sign on the side saying. "my new garage" ...after a few months sell it for scrap.

 

[Junkman]

I am the worse kind of ********.

Is this a new revelation for you, or are you putting us on notice of something most of us already know.....

 

[thefairlaneman]

Is this a new revelation for you, or are you putting us on notice of something most of us already know.....

Oh thats cold,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Danglerb]

What would you have to do to the building so it wouldn't be classified as a garage or shed? Maybe a "barn" would have less restrictions. After its built and approved, garagify it again.

Talk to your neighbors and find out what their problem is with it and if you can work something out.

 

[Junkman]

Oh thats cold,,,,,,,,,,,