Young Guy Looking to Start Welding, Advice anyone?

[Dar]

Hey guys. So like the title says, i'm looking to start welding. I think it'd be great for me since I work on my older toyota pickup alot, and as many of you may know, they tend to need body work and welding repairs. I'm only 17 years old, and like most 17 year olds, my budget is pretty tight. I think a welder would be great for me because i can learn and develope alot of talent as i get older also i could eventually do side jobs i can pocket cash on!

So the searching begins, excuse me for saying this, (i know many of you are ******** American tool owners) I noticed that Harbor Frieght sells a Flux Core Wire welder for 90 bucks with a coupon. I've heard that they are good welders for simple weekend warrior mechanics to learn on, which would be great for me. Also, i think with a 2 year warranty for 20 bucks more, how can you beat it?

Alot of people recommend opting for .035 lincoln wire and throwing out the .030 wire that comes with it. Why is this?

Also, is shielding gas compatable with this welder? A friend of mine told me to get shielding gas because you will get much cleaner welds. I want to know if a regulator can be accessorized with these, i was thinking maybe the workers at HF would be able to tell me but then again, i thought that my toyota could pull out a maple tree stump.

Does anybody have any advice on what welder i should get? Keep in mind, my budget is tight (Under $200). Also, any advice on using the welder and proper techniques for beginners would be greatly appreciated!

 

[diesel research]

Cheap welder=frustration for "beginner".

Same way with most other cheap tools. The logic is "I'm not a pro and don't need all the extra functions and features". Quite to the contrary, it is the pro who can get away with less and still come out with satisfactory results.

I used to hate stick welding, but am starting to think it is more appropriate for the beginner, BUT not so appropriate for body work. Good for lawn ornaments, brackets/hangers, and sticking various things together. Generally cheaper, less moving parts, handles thicker metals, no gas, and forces you to practice technique.

__________________________
One of the best pieces of advice is, intentionally try to destroy your welded pieces. Don't go about it like a welder trying to prove it will hold, go about it like a NDT inspector who wants to find a way for it to fail. That bias will end in positive results.

Next piece of advice is either find a job that requires you to learn welding or pony up for school. Teaching yourself bad techniques/habits is no way to start off.

 

[redneckprofessor]

I learned stick welding, so consider a stick welder. You can get a better quality stick welder for the same money as a cheap wire welder. And I agree with Diesel Research, stay away from the "el-cheapo" wire welders from Harbor Freight. There's just too many good, affordable welders out there to go that cheap. My advice is to look at Craigslist for a used one, then ask if you can try it out or watch him work with it.

 

[newcastleadam]

Provided you're patient you should be able to find a 110v MIG welder from one of the "big three" (Miller, Lincoln, Hobart) for <$200 on your local craigslist. The quality, ease of use, etc from those 3 are much better than the comparable HF offering. I picked up a Lincoln 125 for $115, the deals are out there. MIG (especially flux core/FCAW) is probably the easiest to learn, plus one of the cheapest

See if your local community college/university/whatever offers a welding community ed course. Want steel to practice on? Call the local welding shops, see if you can buy some scrap. Fill out your location, someone may be able to provide more pointed help. Anyway, my $0.02.

 

[Major Ramifications]

I would look into the local vo-tech to see if they have some welding classes that fit your schedule. It's best to form good habits early. Also, it will be much easier to learn on pro-grade equipment than with a cheap wire feed unit.
I thought my first welder was fine until one of the welders where I used to work called us out of the office when it was really slow to let us each run some beads for fun. DAMN, that industrial welder made some pretty beads! Even for me.

I would also reccommend a quality used unit. Check classifieds, C/L, pawn shops, etc.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

Go take a class or you will learn a lot of bad habits and no safety.

 

[greasemonkey44]

dont lean on whatever your welding if you are sweating, there is a nice tingling sensation if you do

 

[diesel research]

A bend test in a hydraulic press, vise, or with a sledge hammer will destroy your first "beautiful" bead, especially a "vertical down" bead. That is starting from the top and running down, a no-no in most industries. Makes a real pretty bead, even more so than appropriate vertical-up, but will rarely survive the press.

Usually, the bead will peal right off the base metal w/o any damage. Only plus side is you can use the same piece over again for your next attempt.

Get in that habit of destroying stuff before you actually make useful pieces and you won't have the stress of a fabricated spring hanger or frame piece failing at the weld later.

Down right hurts your feelings to watch your pride and joy crack in half, but leave the ego at the door.

"ugly, but holds" gorilla/booger welding is no way to go about it either. Pretty AND strong is the only way.

 

[Bull]

It's a pretty well-established American tradition to get an idea, pick up some materials, and teach yourself how to do something. That's what Dar seems to want to do.

Classes would be awesome, but it is unlikely that Dar wants to take one right away.

Personally, I'd like to see him get a used brand-name welder, but in the local CL, there hasn't been anything even close to his price range. I'm gradually pulling him away from relying on HF for his tools, but he just doesn't have the budget for an upscale welder at this time.

Can the HF welders be outfitted with the regulator for using shielding gas? I assume the answer is "yes" but I am not sure.

 

[sk farmer]

is he one of your minions that you are leading astray?

 

[diesel research]

I am still going to strongly discourage the use of these cheap 90amp migs.

I learned to weld in an actual school, but purchased one of these on my own at the same age. A fluke deal, a gas-mig unit obviously priced at the flux-core only price.

Of course I couldn't afford the gas or even consumables, I spent my money on other useless **** that highschoolers do.

It was much less user friendly. Too much heat with flux wire to do thinner sheet metal and exhaust pipes. Not appropriate for either, since flux promotes corrosion. Not enough power for most thicker materials unless I wanted to run 3-6 stacked beads.

I should have paid the $200 that a hobart stick welder cost at the time and just knew from the beginning I wouldn't be tackling any sheet metal work. Then have the capability to do thicker stuff, make a few bucks, and fund a 140 or 180 amp machine.

_______________________

PS: the duty cycle at advertised amperage is usually only 2-3 minutes with 7-8 minutes of cool down period per 10 minute cycle. Some will automatically cut out once transformer gets heated, others will run til the windings smoke and burn out.

 

[Professur]

Standard new welder advice is Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, Esab. A good used on Craigslist can be had for the price of one of the chinese hot glue machines. Yes, with practice you can get good welds using flux core. For starting off ... not so much. The long and short being that welding follows the "good, cheap, fast ... pick any two" rule. You can get good for cheap, but it's gonna take a long time. Probably a lot longer than a hobbyist is willing to sink into it. If a bottle of c25 is too much, CO2 is a good alternative... one I use myself. I got my bottle from a CO2 provider ... essentially it's a 10lbs fire extinguisher bottle with a standard CO2 valve. It's what they use for soda machines and such. It costs me ... $13 to fill. I personally put it at 80% as good as c25 for welding steel ... compared to flux core. Flux core on sheet steel .. you're gonna have a very hard time (not impossible) not burning through.

You can usually find a 110V machine in good shape when a hobbyist upgrades to 220V.

 

[ARAMP1]

I bet there will be a lot of people that disagree, but I'd say research welders a bit and buy the best one you can afford. Start welding stuff. There's plenty of welding forums and several welder manufactures have lessons/advice, etc on their website. Then, after you're comfortable with it, take a class from a local vo-tech. I took a class a few years ago after I had been welding for a few years. Got sooooo much out of the class it was ridiculous.

 

[Major Ramifications]

I don't know who is telling you to throw out any particular size wire and switch to another. The chart on the inside of the machine will tell you which wire size to use with each different thickness. Smaller wires are for thinner metal, larger for thicker.

A very good book for beginners is the Haynes Welding Manual. It can be found at Auto Parts stores, book stores, the library, and of course online. It's a real simple, no BS, book for the low budget DIY guy. He even builds a utility trailer in his driveway using a Geo Metro axle that he has to widen to work for his trailer. This book has been around for a while, we sell it at work for $3.99.

 

[petee_c]

I'm an old guy interested in Welding... so this thread and the many others about beginner welding interest me.

I lucked out on used. Got a Hobart Handler 120, a nice cart, autodark helmet, magnet triangles, extra clamp, extra gun for $200. Came also with a regulator but for the wrong gas. (non-welding gas tank).

My welds ****, hope to get better with a lot of practice.

That being said, i will likely move up to a 220v machine once I get funds, and wire the garage for 220v.

 

[T1320T]

I was in the same position as you when I 1st started welding. My advise is:
Get a Lincoln Mig Pak 100 (I don't think your budget will support gas & bottles for now).
Hang out w some buddies who really know how to weld well... you'll learn a ton.
Clean all your material thoroughly.
Get an auto darkening helmet.
Practice, practice, practice.

 

[justanengineer]

If you think mig is the easiest to learn, go grab some bird poo and toss it onto the metal...save yourself time and money. Mig is relatively simple with respect to technique, but to get a decent non-surface weld on typical sheetmetal its quite difficult.

I recommend taking a VoTech class so you learn most of the ins and outs before buying equipment, it will save you a ton of money later on. I have a larger Miller mig that I loved and used a lot until I took welding classes as part of my engineering degree and learned to use stick and tig. Now the mig sits save for occasional farm use or fence. I prefer my welds to both look good and be strong, but dont care about time spent on them, so not much use for mig.

My fully functioned (fancy and physically large) professional Hobart stick/tig (cant rem model) cost me $300 used. My Millermatic 200 was ~$500. Im currently negotiating for a small Miller inverter tig for ~$400. Why buy new when there are a ton of shops closing every month?

 

[ibedayank]

The 90 amp you can NOT add a regulator to
your choices are

http://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...0-amp-220-volt-flux-and-mig-welder-94164.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...0-amp-230-volt-mig-and-flux-welder-97503.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...0-amp-220-volt-flux-and-mig-welder-94164.html
You need to buy the regulator seperately but those 3 can be upgraded to use sheilding gas.
Fluxcore burns through sheetmetal like a hot knife through butter..
On sale for $199.99 plus tax ...best i could do given the budget

 

[Major Ramifications]

Have you looked into a Henrob type torch for sheet metal work?

 

[diesel research]

The 90 amp you can NOT add a regulator to
your choices are

http://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...0-amp-220-volt-flux-and-mig-welder-94164.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...0-amp-230-volt-mig-and-flux-welder-97503.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...0-amp-220-volt-flux-and-mig-welder-94164.html
You need to buy the regulator seperately but those 3 can be upgraded to use sheilding gas.
Fluxcore burns through sheetmetal like a hot knife through butter..
On sale for $199.99 plus tax ...best i could do given the budget

Notice how all of those are 220v welders? something to take into consideration if your garage isn't wired as such.

 

[UncleJoe]

Ah ...Learning to weld is a wonderful thing. You are on a tight budget so you don't have much dough and we have all been there. Do you have a mentor that can teach you? Do you understand that if you have the right setup and make a simple mistake like using the wrong cleaner to prepare the weld or you try to fix something that is galvanized you may just never see you 18th birthday. Yes it can be that serious. 1000's of guys have successfully taught themselves to weld. You can do it but you can screw up projects and yourself real damn fast.

My advice is go to the community college and take a night course in welding. There you will learn how to do it right, you will get to play with some pretty good equipment and in a few short months you will be ready to buy a welder that you can really get some long term use out of. While you are in class work hard on saving some money. If you have $100 to buy a cheap welder now and you take a course for 6 months and earn and save 30 a month during that time you will have the $30 x 6 = $180 plus the original $100 so you will have $280 plus the knowledge of exactly what you want in a welder and you should be able to find what you want used.

Give it a shot

 

[toxicz28]

The best advice I can give you is safety first! Proper clothing, a good sheild (especially if you want an autodark) and the most important (imho) respiratory protection. It is better to start with wearing it now than to find out years down the road that you should have been wearing it all along.

 

[sbin]

Been looking to upgrade from a Century flux core wire machine someone gave me 12 years ago.Spent time here reading about welding equipment and found a thread about the highly toxic effect of brake cleaner and gas shielded welding.
Stopped spending so much time looking for a deal on equipment and started lurking on welding forums and reading welding educational material.Still looing for a deal on a name brand inverter powered welder but have become much more interested in the process of welding than the equipment lately.

 

[Dar]

Thanks for all the replies guys. You all made me realize how important safety is and the seriousness of welding and now i understand that it isn't really a game or something that anybody can do. Basically, what i've gathered from all of these replies is don't throw my money away on that cheapo harbor welder, its a horrible way to start learning and instead i should keep waiting and looking for a quality used welder off of craigslist. Looks like i'll be waiting for a while, so i guess i should purchase that Hanes welding book to read in the meantime!

 

[Dar]

Ah ...Learning to weld is a wonderful thing. You are on a tight budget so you don't have much dough and we have all been there. Do you have a mentor that can teach you? Do you understand that if you have the right setup and make a simple mistake like using the wrong cleaner to prepare the weld or you try to fix something that is galvanized you may just never see you 18th birthday. Yes it can be that serious. 1000's of guys have successfully taught themselves to weld. You can do it but you can screw up projects and yourself real damn fast.

My advice is go to the community college and take a night course in welding. There you will learn how to do it right, you will get to play with some pretty good equipment and in a few short months you will be ready to buy a welder that you can really get some long term use out of. While you are in class work hard on saving some money. If you have $100 to buy a cheap welder now and you take a course for 6 months and earn and save 30 a month during that time you will have the $30 x 6 = $180 plus the original $100 so you will have $280 plus the knowledge of exactly what you want in a welder and you should be able to find what you want used.

Give it a shot

I do have soemone to teach me, my uncle works for FleetPride (a local driveshaft shop around these parts) and he takes care of the welding there.

"Do you understand that if you have the right setup and make a simple mistake like using the wrong cleaner to prepare the weld or you try to fix something that is galvanized you may just never see you 18th birthday."

I did not know that. Thank you for warning me of this potential hazard.

 

[ibedayank]

DAR... lurk on here..
www.weldingweb.com
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/



Should keep you busy for at least a few weeks.

 

[greasemonkey44]

I do have soemone to teach me, my uncle works for FleetPride (a local driveshaft shop around these parts) and he takes care of the welding there.

"Do you understand that if you have the right setup and make a simple mistake like using the wrong cleaner to prepare the weld or you try to fix something that is galvanized you may just never see you 18th birthday."

I did not know that. Thank you for warning me of this potential hazard.

i started with a fluxcore 120 volt machine, its sat for abt a year, no good for me any more. The best thing would be work with your uncle, he'll teach you more than you want to know abt welding, and a teacher yelling to turn up the heat is the best way to learn.
Id keep my eyes out for an older 120v mig welder with tank, if you plan on mostly sheet metal. Just a warning but sheet metal is tricky **** to get right

 

[ibedayank]

Notice how all of those are 220v welders? something to take into consideration if your garage isn't wired as such.

well that is what HF offers that can be upgraded to run gas not really much of a choice is there?

 

[Dar]

DAR... lurk on here..
www.weldingweb.com
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/



Should keep you busy for at least a few weeks.

Thanks Ibedayank, I will definately favorite those pages and check them out!

 

[ibedayank]

Learning to weld by welding sheet metal is like learning to drag race with a topfuel 300mph dragster instead of a 110 mph streetcar .... MUCH harder You have no clue about wire speed puddle control or what to do if you start to burn through.
Welding is more of an art than anything and that is why so few can do it really well.

 

[ibedayank]

Dar you will never stop learning

 

[Dar]

In light of all these responses regarding College courses and night classes, that just wouldn't be practical for me. I, fortunate as i am, have been gifted with parents that want the best education for me, private school. No trade school and no workshops. Just college prep courses that essentially "prepare" students for getting into the best colleges possible. Now my parents work hard to keep me in this school, and i try my best to give myself and them the best grades i can possibly earn. So basically, it wouldn't go down smoothly with them if i suggested attending night courses on welding, youknow? Its just the way my italian family prides itself and i truly don't mean to knock anybody. Its tough being a guy who is completely into mechanics and laborous tasks to ride the fine line between private school devotion and simple mechanical workings. I started this thread for simple feedback on the best welder for my situation and other people who may be in asituation similiar to mine. Night courses and those kinds of things are going to have to wait until after college or when i finally know what i want to do with my life. As of right now, i want to have fun exploring the world of welding, get a simple, reliable, strong and clean welder that fits an average weekend warrior like i previously stated.

 

[ptab01]

hey DAR- don't give up hope - I have met a great many certified welders who grew up around the stuff (farmers /garages/ plumbing/ construction) to get started you need not a degree but a willingness to learn.

I too would wait it out for a miller/lincoln/ hobart on CL I have little faith in much of HF tools (aside from tool boxes)
Have you considered learning to weld w/ Oxy Acetylene torches? It isn't the industry standard ((many moons ago though it was only way)) but it works AND it is far less expensive than going out and purchasing a machine.

grab a welding; principles and applications book from the local library - it is the holy bible were welding is concerned.

 

[Dar]

hey DAR- don't give up hope - I have met a great many certified welders who grew up around the stuff (farmers /garages/ plumbing/ construction) to get started you need not a degree but a willingness to learn.

I too would wait it out for a miller/lincoln/ hobart on CL I have little faith in much of HF tools (aside from tool boxes)
Have you considered learning to weld w/ Oxy Acetylene torches? It isn't the industry standard ((many moons ago though it was only way)) but it works AND it is far less expensive than going out and purchasing a machine.

grab a welding; principles and applications book from the local library - it is the holy bible were welding is concerned.

Thanks Ptab01, i'll be sure to check out the local library and see if they have that book. And no, i have not considered oxy acetylene torches, are they what i think they are? Basically a torch gun? How the heck can you weld with that? I'm gonna look it up.

 

[ibedayank]

Dar the more skills you have the more jobs you can do. Even if you don't Need to weld in your job. Doing something totaly diffent than what you do 40 hours a week. Can remove more stress than alcohol or anything else ever could.

 

[ibedayank]

While the HF welders work they are a PITA compared to a miller or lincoln
I have this Hf welder for out here at home have a lincoln 225 at work.
Night and day differance between how easy i can get a rod to light and how stable the arc is. I use the HF to tack the stuff togather then use works Lincoln to finish the job.
http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/arc-welders/120-amp-arc-welder-98870.html
here is the lincoln
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/en_US/Products/literature/E230.pdf

 

[Dar]

Dar the more skills you have the more jobs you can do. Even if you don't Need to weld in your job. Doing something totaly diffent than what you do 40 hours a week. Can remove more stress than alcohol or anything else ever could.

I agree with what you said, but it seemed to me that many replies i recieved weren't very optimistic. Doesn't anyone belief in natural talent/skill anymore? "you need a class, your welding will probably be s$%^ unless you take a class" is basically what i'm reading. Well, thats what practice is for! I dont care if it doesn't look good right away, i'm not entering my work into any competition! I do think welding could be key to removing stress in my life, its a door that enables me to seperate myself from the rest of the world and keep my mind focused on one thing. All i need is patience, determination and a will to try over and over again.

 

[Dar]

While the HF welders work they are a PITA compared to a miller or lincoln
I have this Hf welder for out here at home have a lincoln 225 at work.
Night and day differance between how easy i can get a rod to light and how stable the arc is. I use the HF to tack the stuff togather then use works Lincoln to finish the job.
http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/arc-welders/120-amp-arc-welder-98870.html
here is the lincoln
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/en_US/Products/literature/E230.pdf

So what kind of stuff do you use the arc welder for? I think the stick would be more convenient for me. Im just curious to know, how do you like arc welders?

 

[v7guy]

In my limited experience stock welders are really king for doing welds on thick metal that's dirty and even dissimilar.
I looked for a couple years and eventually ran across an old lincoln idealarc sp150. It's big and old and the drive to feed the wire had been much improved over the years. But it's been a real champ and never gives me issues. The price was right at 300 for a large full bottle of gas, a helmet a welder duty extension cord and a full spool of wire.
You may not find the perfect welder at the price you like, but you can find a good one at an attractive price.

 

[Vicegrip]

I am a no formal classes self taught welder. My work stands up to testing and is often positively commented on by welders and non welders alike. I have spent many hours welding, testing and reading.

Don't do anything that impinges on the education you are presently engaged in. Trust me a degree or two is a good thing. Welding is not rapidly changing or going to go away. Take time to get a machine and work on your skills when time permits. Some people have a knack some people do not. As you learn you will see how much more to it there is. This si one reason I like welding. It is open ended in learning and skill building. Get Mig and basic Stick in good shape and then Tig beckons opening up a whole new world of skills, requirements and variables.

Good common sense and good learning methods will take you far.