Craftsman : series time frame ?

[old salvage]

Anyone know a rough time frame for the different Craftsman series.
I'm pretty sure the order is BE and H at the same time, V, and then G, but around what time ?
Alloy Artifacts has a section for modern Craftsman tools and starts it around 1945, mentioning the V series but not actually saying that thats when they started.
The Ratchet i just got doesnt even have a series mark.

 

[lbgradwell]

I'm interested in the same info...

The first Craftsman "series" seems to have been C, and they appear to have run from the late 20s through the mid-to-late 30s.

You're right that the BE and H series tools were concurrent. The BEs may have been slightly earlier than the Hs... This theory is supported by the type of Craftsman logo on the tools; the underlined-C logo is present on all BE tools, while the H tools have either the underlined-C logo or the newer double-line logo. These two series ran from roughly 1934-47.

The 1947 catalogue shows both the older New Britain-manufactured BE and H series as well as the new model line by Moore Drop Forging Co. that would become the V series.

I, too, have a recently-acquired vintage 1/4" ratchet set. Like you, my ratchet has no "series" marking (just the newish double-line logo), but the sockets in the set are all marked "V". I believe it is from the late 1940s since the sockets are also cold-broached! I have perused a PDF 1949 Mechanics Tools catalogue and my set appears therein; the ratchet looks like mine, but the sockets don't appear to be cold-broached, leading me to believe my set is from 1945-48.

The next catalogue year I have been able to find is 1954. By then, the ratchet is different and so is the box!

Moore Drop Forging Co. was acquired by Easco in 1968. Therefore, I would expect the V series (V, VV, and V-with-a-small-upside-down-V?) to have run from roughly 1945-68, when it would have been replaced by the E-series (which you didn't mention).

It was around this time too that the tools started being marked with part numbers. Does anyone have a V-series tool marked with a part number too? I don't know if such a thing exists, but if so, it's a later V-series.

Easco was bought by Danaher in 1990. Therefore I assume the Es and EEs ran from 1968-90 or thereabouts. E = "Easco"?

The Gs are the most recent (and current) series, and the "G" may stand for the Danaher plant in Gastonia, North Carolina.

Interesting!

 

[old salvage]

Oh right, i forgot about that C series ( and the E's too :tard.
Most of my assumptions were based on how common used tools I see are.
I figured that older tools will be sold off more and newer tools are more likely to be held onto longer. The G series are the most common around here.
The only V tool I have near me with a part # is a socket (1/4" drive 3/16" deep) . I'll dig around tonight for more.
Havnt seen many V tools in general. Like i said the G series is most common around here followed by BE . Wierd.
I know its not possible to get a tool and pin down an excact year of mfg but between your post and getting catalogs one could get pretty close.

 

[Jbullfrog]

Dan over on the Craftsman Club board is working on scanning all of the Craftsman catalogs to CD's by decade. He has the 20ies, 30ies, and most of the 40ies done. They are for sale on E-bay for $20 each.

 

[lauver]

Hey Gang,

Newbie here/first post. Saw this thread and thought I would weigh in; I have a fairly sizable collection of craftsman hand tools that have been purchased at various times over the past 45 years. All of my tools are inventoried complete with dates of purchase. So it's fairly easy to put the series designations and approximate time frames together and add to the thread discussion. So here's a summary based on my inventory:

V: 1966 -1986
[note-early tools had no part numbers, later tools have part numbers]

VV (2nd V is upside down): 1995-2000
[note-tools in this series have a different finish and plating, perhaps nickle instead of chrome, all have part numbers]

VG: 1994
[note- all have part numbers]

G: 1993 -2005

H: 1994
[note- H is normally associated with 1930-1944, but I have a bunch of newer tools with this series]

BE/H(old)/E/P: no tools in these series

" " (no series): 1986
[note- I have one Craftsman tool, a 1/2" ratchet with a round head and full polish handle that is not stamped with a series designation and is not stamped "made/forged in USA"]

I don't know if this information clerifies or complicates the series vs time period discussion but this information is based on hundreds of Craftsman tools purchased between 1966 and 2005. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[ba614]

Here's a link that may help you guy's:

http://alloy-artifacts.com/index.html

 

[old salvage]

Hey Gang,

Newbie here/first post. Saw this thread and thought I would weigh in; I have a fairly sizable collection of craftsman hand tools that have been purchased at various times over the past 45 years. All of my tools are inventoried complete with dates of purchase. So it's fairly easy to put the series designations and approximate time frames together and add to the thread discussion....

Thanks greatly.

 

[lauver]

ba164,

Thanks for the link to alloy artifacts; it's a great site, full of well researched information. Unfortunately their Craftsman section is still under construction and only contains information on the early Craftsman tools. They have a long way to go to bring it up to date. And Sears is a tough nut to crack; they're huge, procure tools from multiple manufacturers, change tool manufacturers frequently, and do all of this in a way that is not transparant to their tool buying customers.

The guys here at GJ are used to all of this and are very resourceful. After all their tool boxes and their brains are jam packed with tool information. It's a matter of piecing the information together in a useful format.

At any rate thanks again!

 

[lauver]

Old Salvage,

I did some more digging in my toolbox/inventory and found some additional information (series) and some updated information (expanded date ranges):

E/EE: 1991-1992

G: 1993-2005

H: 1994-2004

VV: 1995-2008

WF: 1966-2007 (primarily screw drivers, punches, chisels, & pliers)

F WF:2003 (primarily screw drivers and specialty drivers)

As you can see, there is overlap in the series dates, which indicates that Sears is using multiple sources for tool procurement. I guessing that things were much simpler in the 60's and early 70's (mostly V series) and then, starting in the early 90's and continuing now, Sears began using multiple sources for different kinds of tools.

It would be nice if other GJ members could chime in to fill in additional series and date ranges that I don't have as my tool purchases were kind of spotty and probably do not represent all of the series and complete date ranges.

 

[old salvage]

Lauver
Yes the overlap does complicate things.
Most folks probably dont keep reciepts so we'll have to make due with...
" I have Craftsman slip joint pliers that i bought around 1980 and they have a Q stamped into them."
I think if one builds up a sizeable number of catalogs and advertisements then a reasonable estimate can be gotten .
My first sears tool was less than ten yrs ago. It was a set of Companion brand end nippers. I just went to the shed to look at em and they're gone. I vaguely remember selling them at the last yard sale. All my other sears/craftsman tools are used( from yard sales and the flea market ) .

 

[lauver]

old salvage,

It just keeps getting deeper; the more I dig, the more I find. Here's the latest additions to the series:

BF: Japanese manufacturer, ca. 1969
(note: these are all pliers bought as a set and are stamped "Japan" instead of "USA" but have typical part numbers.)

WF ll: USA manufacturer, ca. 1969
(note: this is an adjustable plier, much like channellocks, with part number.)

D FW: USA manufacturer, ca. 1985
(note: this is a torx driver with part number.)

3: USA manufacturer, ca. 1991
(note: this is an offset ratcheting box wrench with part number.)

4: USA manufacturer, ca. 1992
(note: these are offset ratcheting box wrenches with part numbers.)

These two above are the first numeric series designations I've seen; if there's a 3 and 4, there must be a 1 and 2 as well, perhaps with different production dates, or more likely with different manufacturers.

I'm not apposed to collecting additional information based on GJ member tools and best recollections. GJ is a huge resource for tools and "tool nuts". The question is--How do you solicit information from the GJ membership? It's easy to overlook or just pass over a small thread like this; what's needed is many eyes, much scrutiny, and many posts!

 

[lauver]

Old Salvage,

In your last post, you mentioned two things that caught my attention:

1) Companion tools -- Companion is a separate lower-end tool brand at Sears and is not part of the Craftsman brand (i.e. it's part of the Sears "good, better, best branding strategy".

2) You mentioned a pair of Craftsman slip-joint pliers you purchased around 1980 With a "Q" series stamp. Do these pliers have a part number and/or USA stamped on them?

 

[old salvage]

Old Salvage,

In your last post, you mentioned two things that caught my attention:

1) Companion tools -- Companion is a separate lower-end tool brand at Sears and is not part of the Craftsman brand (i.e. it's part of the Sears "good, better, best branding strategy".

2) You mentioned a pair of Craftsman slip-joint pliers you purchased around 1980 With a "Q" series stamp. Do these pliers have a part number and/or USA stamped on them?

Gary

1. Absolutely and the companion end nippers were imported. Yet they performed fine. i cut through steel wire and used them to dig out /cut nails too. I dont know why I sold them.

2. That was my lame attempt at making a joke. Sorry bout that

 

[lauver]

old salvage,

If I'd have read your post more carefully I would have known you were making an example of what typical replys would look like. So much for speed reading.

On another point, How do you think we can get more GJ'rs to contribute to this thread? We are not too far from piecing together at least a representive picture the various series designations, manufacturers, and time periods, if given just a little help from othe GJ members.

Why do you think there is so little traffic and so few posts on this thread? Is it "other brand loyalties"? Is it indifference to the Craftsman brand? Your thoughts please.

 

[philw]

I think I have one you haven't covered. I have a 3/8 ratchet with a round head with torx screw in the middle of the reverse wheel. It's satin finish and is marked "U.S.A. -VH- 43175". I know I purchased it sometime around 94-97.

 

[lauver]

philw,

Thanks for the new "VH series" addition; I suspect there will be many other additions if members check their Craftsman tools and report them on this thread. I think at some point in the near future, I will post a summary of what we know so far, and see if that helps members identify other new series.

Thanks again.

 

[BuickFarmer]

Great thread you have going here. I appreciate the work you are doing to build a time frame schedule for Craftsman tools. Don't know when this piece was made but I have had it in my chest for a looooong time.

 

[old salvage]

old salvage,
On another point, How do you think we can get more GJ'rs to contribute to this thread? We are not too far from piecing together at least a representive picture the various series designations, manufacturers, and time periods, if given just a little help from othe GJ members.

Why do you think there is so little traffic and so few posts on this thread? Is it "other brand loyalties"? Is it indifference to the Craftsman brand? Your thoughts please.

Gary

I dont think people are brand loyal. As many folks like Craftsman as do not like em.
As for little traffic I guess most dont care to know 'exactly' when their tool was made and of those who do they only remember when they bought their tools within a few years and dont keep their receipts.

 

[lauver]

BuickFarmer,

Thanks for the post and nice pictures; I'm guessing from the photo's thats an early wrench, roughly 1930-1939. It has the early craftsman script, in a recessed panel, a standard tool number (#1723 used in the old days to identify a particular wrench size), no craftsman part number, and what appears to be a series designation (C1 or CI) to the left of the "Forged in the USA".

Can you look at the wrench with a magnifying glass and see if you can make a definitive call on the series designation? I'm thinking it's a CI (looks like Cl)which have been documented on alloy-artifacts web site.

Then, please post your findings in this thread.

Thanks.

 

[lauver]

old salvage,

I hope you don't think I'm trying to hijack or take over your thread. I just find this stuff interesting and want to learn more about the series designations, productions dates, and more interestingly the tool manufacturers.

Let me know if I'm wearing out my welcome here.

 

[old salvage]

It isnt my thread, its everyones. I just happened to start it.

 

[lauver]

old salvage,

Ok then, I'll continue to post at will and check the thread daily.

What do you think about summarizing what we have so far and then posting it so that others can review, comment, and provide new information? I'm thinking that a spreadsheet would work best for this effort. Is it possible to attach or insert an excel spreadsheet to a post (like photos are inserted)? If so, how would I do that? I'm not familiar with the mechanics of the GJ Board.

Also, would you like me to email the spreadsheet to you for your review and comment before we post it? If so, what's your email address? Mine is [email protected].

 

[old salvage]

Lauver
just post it.
In 63 (completely inane) posts I havnt learned much about board mechanics either.
And many minds are better than one. Other folks here can offer much more in depth advice n criticisms than I can.
Do not however think I'm not intersted, I'll post pics of some of the vintage Craftsman tools I have.

 

[lauver]

old salvage,

I had no doubt in your interest in vintage Craftsman tools. I'm curious though where you draw the interest line...1960? 1970? 1980? 1990? 2000?

For me the vintage tools were pre-1960 for sure, and more likely, pre-1950. In fact the coolest ratchets and open-end wrenches were BE, H-Circle, C, and CI, all pre-1947.

Now, back to the matter at hand, I've got conflicting time frames on many of the series; for example the C series is generally considered to be 1920's-early 1930's, yet I have examples of C series as late as 1991. Is Sears recycling their series designations (i.e. is there an old C series and a new C series?) Same situation with H series, generally thought to be 1931-1944 or 1947; yet I have H series tools from 1994-2004. I'm thinking this must be a case of reusing old series designations that haven't been used in decades. What are your thoughts on these discrepancies? How would you handle these? Refer to them as "early C" and "modern C" and "early H" and "modern H"? And what about the minor variants like C vs CI? I need some help here!

 

[lauver]

old salvage,

I found examples of a few additional series in my tool box; as I mentioned before, the more I dig the more I find:

K: ? manufacturer, professional flare nut wrench set PN 42013, USA, purchased in 2003.

P-circle: Wilde Tools manufacturer, 9/32 x 1/4 offset box-end ignition wrench with the later =Craftsman= logo. Alloy Artifacts identifys the manufacturer as Wilde Tools and estimates the time period at 1930-1949 for this series designation. The tool I have (purchased at a garage sale ca. 1960), is in pristine condition and looks like it could have been manufactured yesterday.

 

[old salvage]

Hmm, I guess I'd draw the line of interest at 1979. That was the last good year for almost everything tools or not. I know it wasnt that long ago but so what.
I dont think most people are interested in tools that recent though and if they are its because they were better made not for collectability.
I guess if you're the one going through the trouble to make the list and do the research and spend money on catalogs and invest time then you decide whats really important. If anyone doesnt like it... tough bananas for them.

As far as series letters, thats tough. Since some of the letters were used for a long time and then stopped and then started up again and the whole thing has been going on for 80 yrs now you may want to consider type of tool ( ratchet, adjustable wrench etc ) as your primary category designation . Then decide what sub-categories would be first , either physical charectaristics ( chrome finish, knurled or smooth etc) or series letter.

 

[philw]

lauver,
K is for SK. They made the line wrenches for a time. They also made the pro combo wrenches early on. I had a set of SK metric long patterns and was planning on picking up a set of SK fractionals when Craftsman introduced the long pattern pro's (around 96?) so I ended up with a set of them because they were about $20 less then the SK's. Same wrench, different name on them. Newer ones are by Danaher.
I noticed Sears is selling Knipex pliers under the Craftsman label.....at least I presume so...they look like Knipex and are made in Germany. I didn't bother looking for a code but I would guess they will have a different one.

 

[eschoendorff]

I noticed Sears is selling Knipex pliers under the Craftsman label.....at least I presume so...they look like Knipex and are made in Germany. I didn't bother looking for a code but I would guess they will have a different one.

That would be correct.

 

[lauver]

phillw & eschoendorff,

Hey guys, thanks for the info on SK (series K) and Knipex (series ?).

Can either of you guys provide a series code from a Knipex tool, and if it's a tool(s) you own, an approximate date(s) when the tool or tools were purchased???

I really appreciate your help here. Thanks!

 

[lauver]

eschoendorff,

I was reading your post "This is depressing..." about SO/BluePoint tools being outsourced to China, and I have to agree with you that, in this case, this is a very sad state of affairs.

On the other hand, in this thread "Craftsman series time frame" we have an example of Sears/Craftsman outsourcing some of their tool production to Knipex, a foreign producer, and this a great state of affairs. Knipex makes some outstanding tools. I have some of their tools and would not trade them for anything. In many respects, I'm glad Sears is outsourcing some of their tools to Knipex...because their tools are of the highest quality. I am, however, sad to see American manufacturing capacity and employment losses.

I'm not sure that all is lost though. If the US dollar continues to fall against foreign currencies, there may be a big windfall for US manufacturing in the long run. US manufacturing may become the low cost producer in the developed world, and regain it's dominance in both American and foreign markets. This global economy is a complicated thing. I suspect that the global economy is in a period of infancy and instability, and that as the global economy approaches maturity and stability, many of the temporary problems we experience now will be a thing of the past. At least I hope this will be the case.

I'm not trying to start a war of words here, just wanted to point out that not all outsourcing is bad. Sometimes it's good.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Here is my set of Craftsman double open end, in a recessed panel design, marked CI. My father bought these new, most likely in the '40s.

The shop towels under the wrenches are Santa Fe Railway inprinted, "Work Safely WIPE OUT Axy Dent on the Santa Fe". They are from the 1950's, my grandfather gave them to my mother sometime in the '50's and I used them regular until about three or four years ago when I realized the value of keeping them, so I laundered them and put them away in a zip loc bag.

Charles

 

[lauver]

Charles (in GA),

Thanks for the CI series info/photo's/dates. That's just the sort of stuff I'm looking for. Nice looking set of wrenches too. They look well cared for. I like the shop rags too. Their a nice touch and great connection to the past.

I may need to get back to you with some more questions later, if you don't mind.

Thanks again!

 

[lauver]

Charles (in GA),

Are you an early Craftsman tool collector or just happen to have some early stuff (family treasures)? Do you have later Craftsman tools in your tool box? If so, from what approximate period of time? Do you have any of the later (approximately 1990-2008) Craftsman professional tools?

I'm not after your tools...I'm just trying to see if you might be able to help identify some of the newer series codes, manufacturers, and approximate date ranges. Obviously, if you have an assortment of craftsman tools purchased in the 1950's, or 1960's, or 1970's, or 1980's to present time, you could be very helpful in our quest to break the Craftsman series code mystery.

 

[Da Bull]

Here's couple of mine from late 70's

 

[lauver]

Da Bull,

Thanks for the info. From the looks of the 1st photo, those are the V series tools, sourced from Moore Drop Forge between 1945 and 1986. Your estimate of mid 1970's fall right in there.

Do you have other craftsman tools with other series codes and/or other purchase dates? If so, please feel free to post them on this thread. You don't need to check every tool, just one tool in each set you purchased.

Thanks again!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Charles (in GA),

Are you an early Craftsman tool collector or just happen to have some early stuff (family treasures)? Do you have later Craftsman tools in your tool box? If so, from what approximate period of time? Do you have any of the later (approximately 1990-2008) Craftsman professional tools?

I'm not after your tools...I'm just trying to see if you might be able to help identify some of the newer series codes, manufacturers, and approximate date ranges. Obviously, if you have an assortment of craftsman tools purchased in the 1950's, or 1960's, or 1970's, or 1980's to present time, you could be very helpful in our quest to break the Craftsman series code mystery.

No, don't have any of the professional series. Most of my Craftsman tools were bought between 1970 and about 1985. The older stuff, and I have more, just have to get pics of it, is mostly WWII vintage or into the mid or late '50's.

I have long offset double box ends, short double box ends, tappet wrenches, and an odd ratchet or two, some 1940's quarter drive sockets, and a few other things, that my dad acquired. The WWII tools were bought with tool ration coupons as he had a civilian job (airline radio operator) that required some basic tools.

Charles

 

[lauver]

Charles (in VA),

I'm glad you have tools from the WWII to 1960 period because my tools are from the 1960 to 2008 period. I think your early tools could fill in some missing date information for P-circle and V series codes (both of which are thought to have started around 1945 and are thought of as the first "modern" Craftsman tools). Unfortunately we have yet to uncover any examples of the pre-1960 P-circle and V series tools. So, I'm hoping you're the guy who can substantiate the existance of 1945-1959 P-circle and V series tools. Do you feel up to a little toolbox research?

If you're willing here's what I need you to do:
1. carefully look through your tool box for examples of pre-1960 Craftsman P-circle and V series tools.
2. post your findings on this thread complete with: a) brief description of tool or set (i.e. open end wrench set, needle nose plier, 1/2" drive socket set, etc.), b) the series code (may be stamped or forged) on the tool(s), and c) your best guess as to the date (i.e. approx 1959 or between between 1955 and 1960, etc.) of the tool, based on your memory, or information that family members may have told you. d) photos are not necessary for this operation, however, if you would like to provide photos at a later date I am sure that they would be appreciated by other contributers to this thread (i.e. old salvage & lbgradwell, & many others).

I look forward to whatever your toolbox search turns up!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Here is a set of Craftsman short double box ends. The opposite side of the wrenches are identical, except they lack the CI marking. Next to the bottom wrench has N4 showing on it, none of the others has CI or N4 on the opposite side. Due to the lack of chrome and similarity to other wrenches that I know are WWII vintage (chrome, being in short supply was not used on wrenches in WWII) I have to assume these are also WWII vintage. Not sure why I have two 1/2-9/16, didn't realize I did till I set up for this pic.

Charles

 

[lauver]

Charles (in GA),

Nice wrenches, and good examples of the early C series. I think your wartime estimate (1941-1945) is probably correct, but it is possible that they were made a little earlier, say 1938-1939. Although the US was not at war at that time, both manufactured goods and strategic raw materials (i.e. steel, chrome, copper, brass, etc) were being rationed and supplied to England.

At any rate, your CI wrenches suggest that the C series tools were being made and sold concurrent with the BE and H-circle series tools.

Another thing I noticed about your CI wrenches is the raised panel (a new feature), with the Craftsman underline logo (an earlier feature). This suggests they were transitional between the early tools (C, BE, H-circle) and the modern tools (V series). It appears that Sears was taking "baby steps" in preparation for the introduction of the V series tools.

I've seen your CI box end wrenches before, not with the Craftsman logo, but with the Fultan Wrench logo on a raised panel with CI/N4 forge marks (see Alloy Artifacts-Fultan Wrench Co.). And I'm guessing that Fultan Wrench Co. is the likely manufacturer of your Craftsman CI box end wrenches.

Thanks for photos. Keep digging in your toolbox; have you found any early (1945-1959) V series tools yet?

 

[lauver]

Old salvage (and anyone else who may be interested),

I'm not trying to cloud the issues on this thread, which deals with Craftsman hand tools of the auto mechanical variety, but I ran across something in my inventory that's new: what appears to be a Craftsman trademark...its a circle with a large C and smaller SA inside the circle.

This trademark appears on a metal plate attached to a 1940's -1950's 6-1/4" circular saw (model # 207.25910) that my father purchased used about 1960. The metal plate also carries the Sears-Roebuck and Co. and Simpson-Sears LTD corporate names, and a stamped 3-55 code of some sort, perhaps a manufacturing date code (i.e. March 1955).

Has anybody else run into this trademark before? Was it specific to power tools or woodworking tools (I own very little of either type of equipment)?