Epoxy-Coat -Took the plunge " John Deere "

[Familyof8kids]

After getting a few PM's saying do not use the sticks because measurments are off we decide to do some data collecting using the provided 6 gallon bucket, measuring stick and a scale. We have pictures but nothing special seeing a number on a scale and picture of water up to a line. This was performed with cold water and took my time.

Standard Mix: Short on Part B! Almost 2.5/1

Part A total 73 oz. .57 gallon
Part B total 27 oz. .21 gallon

Lower mark 27 oz. .21 gallon
Upper mark 100 oz. .78 gallon


Double Mix: Part B is very short! Almost 3/1

Part A total 144 oz. 1.1 gallon
Part B total 56 oz. .44 gallon

Lower mark 56 oz. .44 gallon
Upper mark 200 oz. 1.6 gallon

 

[Familyof8kids]

I feel like I am talking to myself.

Please read the text in the two pictures below. I think I found another reason DIY's may be mixing Epoxy-Coat wrong.
*The label on top of the "B" small activator bucket say you have to pre-mix Part "A" first then add in the Part "B" small bucket?
*On the stick picture you see it says add part "B" first then part "A" and mix for 3 minutes?

I understand the stick has correct data saying part "B" then part "A" but if you have the stick in the black 6 gallon bucket and you are reading the label on the top of the part "B" bucket you may add part "A" to the lower line then add part "B" to the upper line.

Labels need to be clear info for DIY. No need to say activator just say Part "B" or Part "A". Label on stick says small bucket not part "B".

.

 

[rhs]

After getting a few PM's saying do not use the sticks because measurments are off we decide to do some data collection using the provided 6 gallon bucket, measuring stick and a scale.

In general, to convert between measurements of volume and weight, you must factor in the material density (usually given in g/mL or oz/cu in or lb/gal). Your mixing stick is clearly used as a proxy for volume while your scale is measuring weights. The mixing ratios may differ depending on the material densities. Best to contact the manufacturer if you are unsure on mixing.

Otherwise, good luck with your 1st coat. Are you putting down a primer first?

 

[miken123]

Sorry to hear your measuring stick / product quantity woes!

We know for sure that the ratio of Part A to Part B should be 2:1. (2 part A to 1 part B).
But what's the correct "volume of {mixed epoxy} per square foot" to achieve 9.7 mil? / .. to achieve 20 mil?

This way I can chuck their sticks and their buckets and know that I'm getting the desired result.

 

[Familyof8kids]

I am using my own buckets that I have marked and will just pour and go. Will not be using the large 6 gallon buckets. To much left on the bucket edge while pouring out. I am also not using a primer since the MFG says not to do so. I am following the MFG directions perfectly and want to see if it turns out correct.

You guys are correct with density and I am a MSME/EE and try to keep it simple for everyday DIY's so I used cold water just to show a simple comparison.

 

[dns87ss]

I was a cheap tail on it because I purchased a large pallet of tools from a lost airport baggage auction and on it was a boat load of Harbor Freight tools.

I had several HF Air Grinders. I kept 2 and one removed the guard. I then used 6" concrete wheels that were 1/8" thick and 3/8" thick.

I used a chalk line and popped my line. Then I used the 1/8" cutting concrete wheel and lightly scored the top of the concrete. TAKE YOUR TIME IT WILL DANCE AROUND EASILY. After I got the hang of the cutter it took about 20 min to do my 16' wide top cut. I then went back to the start and again used the 1/8" cuting concrete wheel and did a deeper 2" cut and it ate the wheels up fast. I used 6 of the 1/8" wheels. approx 2.50 each. May have been a little less cost. I then used the 3/8" thick concrete grinding wheel and went at making the cut width a little bigger and curving the edges. I had a floor fan right beside me as I was grinding or cutting the concrete because it was messy. I covered the wife's SUV and she was lets say a little pissed. I used about 4 of the 3/8" concrete grind wheels and they cost about 2.50 each.

If you look at my picture the edge against the garage is pretty straight and correct looking. The right side of my cut is rough because I had to grind down the concrete since it was higher on the driveway side and I plan to use a plate over the floor cuts since they are not attractive to myself.

If I had it to do again I would check into a skill saw to cut the line deep on one pass. There is no real easy way on how I chose to try it.

Total time to cut and curve was about 1 hour.

thanks for the info and looking forward to that "JD" floor

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Sorry to hear your measuring stick / product quantity woes!

We know for sure that the ratio of Part A to Part B should be 2:1. (2 part A to 1 part B).
But what's the correct "volume of {mixed epoxy} per square foot" to achieve 9.7 mil? / .. to achieve 20 mil?

This way I can chuck their sticks and their buckets and know that I'm getting the desired result.

9 Mil = 178.2 sq ft per gal
10 Mil = 160.4 sq ft per gal
20 Mil= 80.2 sq ft per gal

I have been working with coatings for most of my business life. The mixing sticks and cups are all new to me.

 

[dcs Inc]

1604 sq. ft. per 1 mil. If you are wanting to know what coverage 20 mil is, divide 20 into 1604. That will give you 80 sq. ft. per gallon. (80.2) to be exact as scotty states. Reverse it to find out what mil thickness you are applying. Say you are applying your epoxy at 160sq. ft. per gallon, that's 10 mils.

 

[miken123]

Perfect thanks for the info both of you!

That's all anyone really needs to know to figure out how much to mix per given area of their floor.

With that info one could say "I have a 400 sq ft floor, given 3 gallons (total=Part A + Part B together) I can have at most ~12.0 mil floors:

((1604 sqft*mil/gal) / (400 sqft) * (3 gal)) = 12.0 mil

Furthermore your information can also be used to derive how much volume to use per square foot given a desired mil.

So again, having calculated the above that for a 400 sqft floor and 3 total gal of epoxy (combined total) one should have just around 12 mil worth of volume.. if I have blocked off my garage into sections of 10x10 ft = 100 sqft... I can calculate how much epoxy I need for a 100 sqft section to accomplish the expected 12 mil:
(100 sqft)*(12 mil)/ (1604 sqft*mil/gal) = ~0.75 gal

So I would know to make a batch of epoxy totalling 0.75 gal in order to cover that 100 sqft section at 12 mil.

It would of course be up to me to also calculate how much of part A and how much of part B is correct to make a batch totalling to 0.75 gal at the correct ratios, but that's easy as well:
Ratio of A to B is 2:1,
0.75gal / 3 = 0.25 gal of B
0.75gal *2/3 = 0.50 gal of A.



This was a simple example using a 400 sq ft garage and 3 gal of epoxy and then choosing to split it up into 100 sq ft sections but any other numbers could of course be substituted in. It should also be added that it would be wise to be conservative in such estimates just in case you were shipped any less epoxy than you expected! / or if you wanted to have a little left over at the end for touch ups / etc.

Additional note that came a few posts after this one:

You guys also need to understand if it not 100% solids, then the dry mil thickness will be less. Your water borne epoxies, urethanes, polyaspartics are thin mil applications. Some of the topical vapor barrier epoxies are thin mil also.

 

[Familyof8kids]

I am not trying to be difficult I was trying to show all of the previous and future Epoxy-Coat installers or other Epoxy vendor customers that mixing is a rocket science if you are using the provided mixing sticks that seem dummy proof but in fact are possibly causing some of the bubble, delaminating, cloudy, etc issues many are recently posting about. After receiving over 33 emails from other GJ members about them having extra material left over and they wondered how that happened or said the left over material being part A or B was mixed in heavy on the last batch that normally is by the garage door and they noticed it was sticky or cloudy after curing.

I was not asking for mixing assistance just trying to explain what I found using the MFG mixing stick so others that may be reading would go get more buckets to properly 2:1 mix.

I had a few say they felt that another $20 in buckets is not necessary. At this moment I also say more $ is not fair but for sure in my case a no brainer.

Today the green goes down! I hope it comes out good because I will be stoned by the great GJ mob if I fail.

 

[rhs]

Good luck today.

The above DFT info should be a sticky. I made some similar calculations on Saturday and realized that I only put down a 4 mil thick primer coat which is why so many imperfections were showing through.

 

[dcs Inc]

You guys also need to understand if it not 100% solids, then the dry mil thickness will be less. Your water borne epoxies, urethanes, polyaspartics are thin mil applications. Some of the topical vapor barrier epoxies are thin mil also.

Good luck familyof8kids. Have your supplier on speed dial should you need assistance quickly.

 

[burleyfarm]

I'm a Wheel Horse Red fan waiting for those JD green pictures. Can't wait. I have been extremly satisfied with my Epoxy-Coat. I'm sure you will be also.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

To genes point, there is also soak-in, especially if you are with the no-primer fan club.

And when calculating your material, you will have waste.

 

[rugerlady]

My goodness.... typically the Part B bucket is overfilled.

 

[Kevin54]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the spelling on the lid.

 

[pstnbly]

Too many horror stories using the mixing stick method Just buy some graduated paint mixing cups. No good painter would rely on the stick method, epoxy coat ratios work out perfectly if you use mixing cups.

 

[Familyof8kids]

To genes point, there is also soak-in, especially if you are with the no-primer fan club.

And when calculating your material, you will have waste.

After reviewing many post about primer we decided to apply PPG Aqupon 35 2 part 70% solids in white. After installing the PPG epoxy I am so glad that I listened to you guys!

The white epoxy soaked up big time in some areas and others it has a good above concrete film. I would say more soaked in than stayed on the surface! It actually looks like **** and if the JD green would have turned out like that I would be pissed. It is hard to see the patchy parts in the pictures but it is bad. I had every hole filled in but in the end many of them must have popped or gassed and now look like epoxy was never in them. NO BUBBLES AT ALL. I know it looks gray in pics because I used no flash and did so because flash made the floor so bright it looked perfect. I was trying to show details of concrete fibers, holes, and patches.

 

[Roger555]

Might not be legal to sell labeled "John Deere" unless they endorse it.

 

[rhs]

Patchy - that describes what my 1st coat looked like as well (I should really put up some photos). I had some of those pits after my 1st coat as well (in addition to my bubble issues). I think the 70% epoxy primer was a smart move.

I assume you are doing a single-pass of epoxy-coat which will have a thickness of ~10 mil. Have you checked the depth of any of those pits, divots or rough areas? Are you planning to fill them at all, prior to the JD green?

 

[Familyof8kids]

I assume you are doing a single-pass of epoxy-coat which will have a thickness of ~10 mil. Have you checked the depth of any of those pits, divots or rough areas? Are you planning to fill them at all, prior to the JD green?

I did not gauge any pits or holes. I plan to only knock down High rough spots and leave the rest. Since I am doing such a heavy coat of flakes I did not see getting to wild on the smooth surface look. I actually want a rough floor appearance. The PPG epoxy was also self priming and I can tell it took well to the floor but cannot see how a single coat would work.

It was $142.00 out the door for the PPG epoxy and that is a drop in the bucket if the JD green turns out great. I also have respect for the guy that did 1400 sq.ft. this past weekend because I have not felt this tired in years. I am out of shape for sure.

 

[Baada]

I think you will be very pleased with the reduced pinhole/fish eyes that you will get having done the primer coat. It's my single biggest regret from doing my floor.

And I don't think it's the big pits you need to worry about, it's the small pits where the epoxy can't flow into fast enough so that when it finally does it blows a big bubble which pops and leaves a crater in your coating.

 

[Familyof8kids]

Might not be legal to sell labeled "John Deere" unless they endorse it.

100% why it is spelled that way and most everyone has the flakes labeled as "JD Green".

 

[dcs Inc]

If you're looking for a quick filler, go to your local auto store and get a little kit of bondo. fill and sand.

 

[miken123]

Ahh.. familyOf8 you're convincing me to follow suit and use a primer prior to putting down my epoxy coat base coat + clear coat.

1. What made you choose Aquapon over others?
2. What's your plan on how long to wait post-Aquapon application to apply your Epoxy-Coat? Just using the ole thumb-print test / approx 14 hours ish?
3. Anyone else use Aquapon as a primer?
4. Is the Aquapon actually a primer or are you just figuring that any other epoxy as a base coat will serve as a primer?

 

[Familyof8kids]

Ahh.. familyOf8 you're convincing me to follow suit and use a primer prior to putting down my epoxy coat base coat + clear coat.

No matter what I am 125% sure I will not have any bubbles in the Epoxy-Coat finish now due to looking at my floor this morning.

1. What made you choose Aquapon over others?
2. What's your plan on how long to wait post-Aquapon application to apply your Epoxy-Coat? Just using the ole thumb-print test / approx 14 hours ish?
3. Anyone else use Aquapon as a primer?
4. Is the Aquapon actually a primer or are you just figuring that any other epoxy as a base coat will serve as a primer?

1. Had researched during Epoxy MFG reviews and it was locally supplied (I try to fund Mom/Pop shops if possible.) Aquapon is the floor covering at Nissan MFG in TN with over 1 million sq.ft. of proven track record.
2. MFG instruction says recoat after 24 hours and walk after 14 hours. I will wait a little more than 24 because I am going to rough it up due to heavy fiber hairs sticking up and a few bugs got on it. Next post will show the pics.
3. I searched and did not find any. I hope someone will speak up but if not I am the donkey to try.
4. After speaking with Legacy and a few other previous installers they said primer is actually Epoxy that is labeled as self priming and sometimes is down as low as 40% solids. Aquapon 35 is 53% solids and self priming per MSDS.

 

[miken123]

thanks for the reply FamilyO'8. I might just be a donkey with ya (hopefully won't make an a$$ out of myself :-D!)
If I can source it locally myself I might go with it too. I'm getting tired of holding off on my floor project since it's been prepped for a while now. Was 'supposed' to rain last weekend - instead it was perfect but I had made other plans. And now the 'perfect' weekend coming up has been changed to rainy!
I might just do it over the next 3 perfect days (today, weds, thurs) and get it over with! (primer, Epoxy-Coat base coat, Epoxy-Coat clear coat).

I hope the Aquapon isn't too expensive. I'm hoping ~$150 to cover my <400 sq ft garage but I don't mind the extra expense for peace of mind + longer life!

Good luck man I look forward to your JD colors!

 

[Familyof8kids]

After 16 hours I decided to open the garage door and take a look. No doubt it would need another coat to be white and not patchy white as I have right now. Where I joined two sections I had 1 ft of overlap and it looks white in that area but does have a ripple or wave affect (Not bad) where it was a little thick. Guess self level would have taken care of that?

I was on my hands an knees looking at the surface before I started. I did not see any hairs or trash. Over cleaned the surface many times. I mixed in two batches (250 sq.ft. at a time) and that is not recommended by myself for anyone unless you are ready for a workout (Pot time was perfect). This morning I have major fiber hairs sticking up anywhere it was thick or slightly thick. Almost like it raised the hairs. Where it was thin very thin no hairs at all. NO BUBBLES ANYWHERE! I did backroll wildly, mixed with low speed cordless drill, poured out and tried to use EC squeege (Big Joke) and slowed to fill small holes but several of them are open now. The holes are 1/16 to 1/4 in diameter. They are 1/16 to 1/8 in depth and no mini hole in the bottom for upgas. I believe they are holes where small pebbles were lifted during floor prep. I am going to pole sand the floor with 60 grit sand paper just to knock off the high spots and bugs. I am so glad I listened to the pros on this site and did a primer coat. I hope Aquapon 35 does not react to Epoxy-Coat. Fingers crossed.

Fiber - Hairs " Yes Hairs not trash"

Wave Effect - Hard to see in Picture - Yes Hairs not trash.

Close-Up very thin no hair.

 

[Familyof8kids]

The roller Epoxy-Coat furnishes is actually a very good, No Hair release, roller cover. A couple of the pictures above look really really bad but understand I am using a SLR high grade camera and trying to get a good review out to others. No one gets this close to the floor well 99% not this close.

Also the yellow look is not actually yellow. I think it is a reflect from the garage door insulation or other. Is is so bright white my Canon 5D camera had issues getting a focus. The top picture is no lights on and no sun reflection!

 

[Familyof8kids]

I hope the Aquapon isn't too expensive. I'm hoping ~$150 to cover my <400 sq ft garage but I don't mind the extra expense for peace of mind + longer life! QUOTE]

For one gallon of Aquapon 35 Epoxy (any color you can think of) and one gallon of hardner from Porter Paints it was $142 out the door and covered my 500 sq. ft. floor. I say max 500 sq.ft. but if I was doing your floor I would make 4 batches and roll out thin thin. .25 gallon of each Part A and Part B mixed and have fun. I slopped it big time in the edges along the bump block wall. Filled in that wierd floor to wall odd line. I did cut in the entire room from the first batch while still in the bucket then poured it out. Legacy also has some proven primers used by other members under EC.

 

[miken123]

For one gallon of Aquapon 35 Epoxy (any color you can think of) and one gallon of hardner from Porter Paints it was $142 out the door and covered my 500 sq. ft. floor. I say max 500 sq.ft. but if I was doing your floor I would make 4 batches and roll out thin thin. .25 gallon of each Part A and Part B mixed and have fun. I slopped it big time in the edges along the bump block wall. Filled in that wierd floor to wall odd line. I did cut in the entire room from the first batch while still in the bucket then poured it out. Legacy also has some proven primers used by other members under EC.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I'd try Legacy but I want it today or tomorrow before the possibly wet weekend and I'm sure shipping would be astronomical to get the Legacy primer to me by tomorrow (mind you I haven't asked, but overnight on a relatively heavy shipment like that cannot be cheap.. unless Legacy would be so kind as to give me a great deal on shipping to MI... :-D I wouldn't if I were them.. I'm not even using their full epoxy system! )

 

[Tims94]

I too just purchased the PPG Aquapon 35 and plan to put it down tonight. So, familyof8, you may have started something. I bought the gray tint so we will see how it turns out.

 

[miken123]

Sounds 'fun!' If it fails.. we'll all commiserate on the 'what's the best way to strip the floor of a bad epoxy install' thread :-D. Or at least on the 'is it ok to install VCT or RaceDeck over an epoxy floor thread :-D

 

[Baada]

EpoxyCoat recommended UGL Drylok as a primer when I asked them. This is what they suggest if there are moisture issues that the epoxy alone can't handle. Since I didn't have moisture issues I didn't use a primer at all. Again, I really wish I had.

 

[miken123]

EpoxyCoat recommended UGL Drylok as a primer when I asked them. This is what they suggest if there are moisture issues that the epoxy alone can't handle. Since I didn't have moisture issues I didn't use a primer at all. Again, I really wish I had.

Interesting that they'd recommend DryLok. It's a latex based paint it looks like (not sure)? I guess what worries me about using that is that I would want to wait for it to fully dry before using epoxy over it and at that point I'd worry that i'd need to send it down first before applying epoxy which -- ehh i'm not too keen on.
I'd much prefer applying an epoxy as a primer so that the base epoxy coat just bonds onto it while it is close to drying. But of course that begs the question 'what guarantee do you have that your two epoxies will bind together rather than somehow be incompatible?' which is a good point as well.
Ahh..

 

[Familyof8kids]

EpoxyCoat recommended UGL Drylok as a primer when I asked them. QUOTE]

So how long have you worked there? LOL

I asked several times from different numbers and used different voice accents and was told every time that the do not recommend any primer. With the clear note on the directions and website that EC is not responsible for fish eye or bubbles that is a closed subject.

EC should stand with the self priming statement because it is a proven product but have an option for post purchasers that want an insurance pre-coat and request a primer option.

Understand other MFG's would use that against EC for listing a primer but list as an option to help reduce possible up-gas issues but not required. We know the factory has unlimited epoxy and could test a few different bigbox store and Legacy "primers" so we could get some with no compatibility questions. We also would like to know if EC would not void us because we are trying to get a better EC floor final appearance and a few of us are willing to spend the extra $$ to do so.

 

[miken123]

Well my local paint store doesn't have the Aquapon in stock but they had some benjamin moore options.

I might swing by and see if they have this one:
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/...er-spec-hp-epoxy/P40#piSheen=P35&advs=0&tab=3

It's their P35 product and its 100% solids epoxy. It specifically claims to be a great sealer / finish that supports a variety of topcoats.

They also offer P41, which is a 31% solids but also called a finisher/sealer. Not sure which is better but i'd lean towards the 100% solids P35 instead...

I did a quick search and people have had some success in the past with benjamin moore epoxies - i really just wanted to make sure they didn't make a known crappy product as such I wouldn't use it as a primer.

 

[miken123]

.. oh and they also have the Benjamin Moore P36 which claims to be great as a waterproof barrier as well. But it's a Polyamide epoxy 62% solids. Ahh! So many options.

Well I dont' want this to hijack the John Deere project (although clearly FamilyOf8 is interested in this primer - for - Epoxy Coat information since he brought it up )


Can't wait to see the JD pics.

 

[Familyof8kids]

This issue of primer is more important than the green floor. I would start another thread but do not want it to seem like we are hating on EC.

Type PPG and your zipcode into google to see if you have a rep close to you or call 1-800-441-9695. I got that number off the MSDS sheet and everytime I called it I got a english speaking person and they knew everything I asked for. I bet they can find your closet rep.

I read way to many fails on BM products. I did not even look at them.

 

[Tims94]

You can get PPG at Pittsburgh Paints stores