Garage Doors

[IONH]

I am going to replace my garage doors as they are old, rusting, and in rough shape. I'd like to put in something with a better (read: any) insulation value.

I'd like to go torsion springs so I can the space between the tracks for a ceiling fan, though that's TBD due to my low ceiling height. This will allow me to use the wall mounted garage door openers (the brand escapes me at the moment).

I currently have two 9w X 7h doors. Total ceiling height is about 8.5 feet.

Unfortunately, Ideal® seems to be the brand I should use, but they are only available at Menards and the nearest Menards is 9.5 hours away, too far.

Suggestions/Comments?

 

[spotco2]

I'm confused why you think that you absolutely MUST use Ideal doors.

Check your yellow pages for commercial overhead door suppliers and installers in your area and get some quotes on what you want. We just had a commercial installer drive over 80 miles one way to deliver AND INSTALL 2 doors that were 8x10 for less that we could buy the doors locally. They buy this stuff in such bulk that there is no way that a box store can compete with them on pricing.

If you want to go cheap, 3/4" insulation foam board is only about $15 per sheet, 3 sheets will do a door along with 3 tubes of Liquid Nails at about $2 per tube.

 

[SteveeP]

What town in Mass are you in ?
I recently used Pelham Builders Supply (Pelham, NH) and was extremely happy with the purchase and install.

 

[IONH]

I'm confused why you think that you absolutely MUST use Ideal doors.

I didn't say MUST, I said 'should'.

I was looking for alternate brands to Ideal® which may be the same.

I will be rebuilding the front wall of the garage, so planning it around a contractor's schedule this late in the year is not the best plan for me.

What town in Mass are you in ?
I recently used Pelham Builders Supply (Pelham, NH) and was extremely happy with the purchase and install.

What size door(s), how many and how much? Just to get a rough idea.

 

[SteveeP]

3 doors, 2 - 9'x8'h and 1 - 10'x8'h.
Haas 600 series doors w/ glass in top sections, 13.5 R value. $2700 installed.

 

[IONH]

3 doors, 2 - 9'x8'h and 1 - 10'x8'h.
Haas 600 series doors w/ glass in top sections, 13.5 R value. $2700 installed.

Thanks for the info.

Still looking for doors.

 

[pattenp]

You got a Lowes or Home Depot that you can go to? Lowes has ReliaBilt and Home Depot has Clopay. I have one of the ReliaBilt and it seems to be as good of a door as any for the price. The opener I think you're trying to remember is Liftmaster 3800 now the 8500.

 

[IONH]

You got a Lowes or Home Depot that you can go to? Lowes has ReliaBilt and Home Depot has Clopay. I have one of the ReliaBilt and it seems to be as good of a door as any for the price. The opener I think you're trying to remember is Liftmaster 3800 now the 8500.

I was in Home Depot the other day and they only had the ones with the long springs, not torsion springs. I didn't ask anyone though, which is probably silly on my part. I'll have to do that next time I'm in.

Yes, Liftmaster, that's it! Thanks.

 

[upndown]

Home depot or Lowes should have torsion spring Doors and No you do not want extension springs! I'd recommend checking local door cos. HD or Lowes doesn't do installs, they are all subcontracted out. Dealing direct usually ends up with better results..

 

[IONH]

Thanks guys.

I have to replace the lower half of the front wall of my garage anyway (from the ceiling joist down) due to old termite/water damage, so I would be installing these myself.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I put Wayne-Daltons on the garage, both house and my garage. They don't have a torsion spring but rather a torsion tube with the spring inside. If you scroll through my refurb thread, you can see pictures of them. They also have different R-value rating as far as the insulation is concerned.

 

[IONH]

I put Wayne-Daltons on the garage, both house and my garage. They don't have a torsion spring but rather a torsion tube with the spring inside. If you scroll through my refurb thread, you can see pictures of them. They also have different R-value rating as far as the insulation is concerned.



http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/nuttsgt/11202010003.jpg

Thanks for the picture Eric. Did you buy those from a big box store or a local seller?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Thanks for the picture Eric. Did you buy those from a big box store or a local seller?

They came from my local lumber yard, Carter Lumber, which is a chain lumber yard.

There's a section here to find a local dealer.. . .top right.

http://www.wayne-dalton.com/Pages/default.aspx

 

[djjsr]

I think Ideal doors are made by Clopay? I bought 2 of them and seem to remember seeing something about Clopay on the literature.


edit - I just checked and found that Clopay has owned Ideal since 1992. I think their doors may be the same but I'm not positive.

 

[KiltLifter]

(edited - I meant Wayne Dalton, not Coplay - shuttin up and drinking my coffee now...)

+1 on the Wayne Dalton, darn fine door. Special order from HD, but only takes a few days.

Good news/bad news about the spring:
Dalton internal torsion spring is a breeze to set up and super safe - you just hook your electric drill to the adjuster on the end and spin til it reads the right number - went too far, hit reverse on the drill - seriously, that easy.
The caveat is that you can't grab the torsion tube with the cool 8500 opener (perhaps they make an adaptor, not sure).

Wayne Dalton did (and may still) make an opener that turns the torsion tube. Besides being silent, it has a delay close feature and a pet button that will open your door 6" (or where you set it) for ventilation (or that pet). With the right door, it doesn't need the dreaded beam sensor either.

Check with some installers, they may be cheaper than you think.

 

[djjsr]

The caveat is that you can't grab the torsion tube with the cool 8500 opener (perhaps they make an adaptor, not sure).

Do you know why it won't work? The torsion tube appears to be the same as any other door.

 

[pattenp]

I don't know about the Clopay internal spring torsion bar but the Wayne-Dalton torsion tube will not work with a Liftmaster jack shaft opener. Here's where a LM3800 was used with a rigged up connection....

 

[IONH]

Oh wow. So it sounds like if I want to get the wall mount opener, I need that to be compatible with the door torsion spring setup I get... which makes sense. I had assumed it would just work.

 

[KiltLifter]

Oops, said Coplay above, meant Wayne Dalton.

The internal tube is larger and doesn't stick past the end thus the rigged picture above.

 

[IONH]

I read the PDF for the Liftmaster door opener and it requires the tensioner tube to stick past the end bearing 1-5 inches so the opener can attach and turn it.

 

[peterp]

I went with a composite Amaar door from Costco. The composite seems to insulate well and I liked that it could be stained like wood. We had it installed 4 years ago and the "wood" still looks like new. Costco doesn't install, but they connected us with a contractor that did the installation. The staining process and finished product can be seen in this thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32243

 

[IONH]

I went with a composite Amaar door from Costco. The composite seems to insulate well and I liked that it could be stained like wood. We had it installed 4 years ago and the "wood" still looks like new. Costco doesn't install, but they connected us with a contractor that did the installation. The staining process and finished product can be seen in this thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32243

Thanks peter, was a good read. What kind of spring and opener did you go with?

 

[peterp]

Thanks peter, was a good read. What kind of spring and opener did you go with?

The spring is metal . OK, I don't know much about the springs, we just used whatever they install by default.

For an opener, my research at that time (2008/9) lead me to believe Liftmaster had the best product. I ended up getting a Craftsman 3/4HP with battery backup (which is a Liftmaster belt-drive branded as Craftsman).

The belt-drive was a lot quieter than the prior (very old) opener, but the old unit had more power (even though I think it was rated only 1/2 hp). The spring in my old door was hurting -- the old opener could lift it no problem but the new one was a bit slow under the load. It was fine once the door springs were fixed.

The battery backup is kind of a needless frill, but it did work well during hurricane Sandy.

 

[smokem2020]

I've used 7 Ideal doors in the past. All industrial, insulated, and steel on both sides. I like them. Too bad Menards is so far away. I need a 6ft door and Ideal doesn't seem to make one that small. good luck on your doors.

 

[IONH]

Went to Lowes yesterday to see what they could get. They stocked the regular extension spring doors, of course, in their "good" and "better" qualities.. basically, no insulation and a tiny amount of insulation.

Had them look up in the computer some torsion spring setups, they could get Wayne Dalton. Prices were okay, I think, at just about $450 each for a WD9100. Lead time was 21 days though. The R value was only a 7 or 8 I think. They had to check the website and I'm not confident they looked up the right ones. Also, I have no idea yet if the WD9100 would work with a LiftMaster door opener.

 

[scarpozzi]

Went to Lowes yesterday to see what they could get. They stocked the regular extension spring doors, of course, in their "good" and "better" qualities.. basically, no insulation and a tiny amount of insulation.

Had them look up in the computer some torsion spring setups, they could get Wayne Dalton. Prices were okay, I think, at just about $450 each for a WD9100. Lead time was 21 days though. The R value was only a 7 or 8 I think. They had to check the website and I'm not confident they looked up the right ones. Also, I have no idea yet if the WD9100 would work with a LiftMaster door opener.

R-value on the 9100 series is an R value of 9. I think the next one up is 9600 series and it's R12 or R13...

 

[HotrodHR]

I am going to replace my garage doors as they are old, rusting, and in rough shape. I'd like to put in something with a better (read: any) insulation value.

I'd like to go torsion springs so I can the space between the tracks for a ceiling fan, though that's TBD due to my low ceiling height. This will allow me to use the wall mounted garage door openers (the brand escapes me at the moment).

I currently have two 9w X 7h doors. Total ceiling height is about 8.5 feet.

Unfortunately, Ideal® seems to be the brand I should use, but they are only available at Menards and the nearest Menards is 9.5 hours away, too far.

Suggestions/Comments?

With a short opening and low ceiling height you might want to consider a roll up type door... not much R value though. Will keep your ceiling clear when opened or closed. Assuming that you instal a ceiling fan you're probaby going to use it in summer with does open, might work better without garage doors up at ceiling...

 

[Gerald O]

I don't know what brand these doors are that they just installed in my new garage, but I like them! Insulated and covered on the inside makes them smooth and easy to keep clean. I like the uncluttered smooth surface. With the Liftmaster 8500 openers the doors are very silent going up and down too.

 

[IONH]

With a short opening and low ceiling height you might want to consider a roll up type door... not much R value though. Will keep your ceiling clear when opened or closed. Assuming that you instal a ceiling fan you're probaby going to use it in summer with does open, might work better without garage doors up at ceiling...

Thanks for the suggestion HR. The fans are more to push the heat back down as I have a 75k BTU propane heater mounted to the ceiling.

I'm not interested in the space savings of a roll up at sacrifice of practically any R value.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Wayne Dalton did (and may still) make an opener that turns the torsion tube. Besides being silent, it has a delay close feature and a pet button that will open your door 6" (or where you set it) for ventilation (or that pet). With the right door, it doesn't need the dreaded beam sensor either.

Check with some installers, they may be cheaper than you think.

Wayne Dalton I-Drive, No, NO and No freaking way. I have two in the house garage and no way would I buy another. When Genie bought Wayne Dalton, they didn't want the I-drive opener because of it's inherent problems. Mine came with a lifetime warranty but it's useless when there's nobody to honor the warranty.

Had them look up in the computer some torsion spring setups, they could get Wayne Dalton. Prices were okay, I think, at just about $450 each for a WD9100. Lead time was 21 days though. The R value was only a 7 or 8 I think. They had to check the website and I'm not confident they looked up the right ones. Also, I have no idea yet if the WD9100 would work with a LiftMaster door opener.

The issue with the WD door is that the cables are coiled on the end of the torsion spring , which encloses it. Since I don't go in/out my garage all the time, an opener is not an issue for me.

 

[crazy5]

I'll second the NO for the idrive! My apartment has one, and I'm cussing that thing out every other month. For the last five years! Can't get the leading office to replace it, because it will work correctly when you hold your face just right.

 

[Desertwndrr]

The Wayne Dalton doors that I have seen are garbage. They build them using cardboard I think. Total junk.

I don't know the name of the doors that I buy from my installer, but they are insulated with powder coated metal inside and outside. Very solidly built and insulated. Flush panels on both sides with a faux wood grain on the front. I've faux painted them to look like real wood doors. I pay around $2100 for an 18x8' and a 9x8' installed with belt drive openers and vying rollers (makes them VERY quiet operators).

 

[DynoDave]

3 doors, 2 - 9'x8'h and 1 - 10'x8'h.
Haas 600 series doors w/ glass in top sections, 13.5 R value. $2700 installed.

I have these doors as well. A 8x18 double, and an 8x9 single. I've been very happy with them.

http://www.haasdoor.com/residential/600/index.html

 

[Kevin C]

One thing I noticed is that some R value claims are a bit exaggerated

Most manufacturers measure the R-value based on the overall door, but some base their numbers on the center of a panel, which produces a higher R-value.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,219448-2,00.html

Since the insulation in the door is going to be some type of foam, its reasonable that the R value of the door cant be greater than an equivalent thickness of foam. 2" thick XPS foam is about R10, EPS is R8, Polyurethane rigid is 5.5 to 6.8 (drops with aging).

Still, way better than an uninsulated door. That the the closed structure seems a lot more rigid and quite.

From what I have found, the section R values include the air film on the door as part of the calculation.

Typical quote

Calculated door section R-value is in accordance with DASMA TDS-163

Link to how they calculate:

http://www.dasma.com/PDF/Publications/TechDataSheets/CommercialResidential/Tds163.pdf

 

[upndown]

WD I-Drive openers are obsolete! As a matter of fact WD is out of the garage door opener business..Nada..No more! My Son just closed on a house, Texted me a picture of his garage of course, what do I see but an I-Drive. Fortunately the PO disconnected it and installed a real opener..

 

[CNGsaves]

For OP, looks like those Haas doors are pretty nice there locally in MA.

If you don't go with LM 3800/8500 direct-drive opener, then I'd recommend a belt-drive. My old house had chain drive and cheapy metal door what was replaced with insulated Overhead Door and Chamberlain belt-drive. Difference was awesome with quiet operation and warm garage.

Also, look into nylon rollers which will also quiet down operation of door.

 

[upndown]

For OP, looks like those Haas doors are pretty nice there locally in MA.

If you don't go with LM 3800/8500 direct-drive opener, then I'd recommend a belt-drive. My old house had chain drive and cheapy metal door what was replaced with insulated Overhead Door and Chamberlain belt-drive. Difference was awesome with quiet operation and warm garage.

Also, look into nylon rollers which will also quiet down operation of door.

^^^+1^^^ Make sure you get 10 ball nylon rollers! They do sell nylon rollers w/o bearings, Don't bother.

 

[IONH]

I went to Home Depot today to see what they had to offer. They have Cloplay doors. In the Cloplay catalog in the store, it actually showed the LiftMaster opener.

I asked how much for the doors I wanted, was $700 each including the $56 torsion spring upgrade. R value claim was 12.9.

4 weeks for delivery and free shipping to my house.

The guy had no idea if it'd work with the LiftMaster opener. Does anyone know if all Cloplay will?

Also, does the Cloplay have the drill adapter for tensioning the spring like those Ideal ones do?

 

[NUTTSGT]

WD I-Drive openers are obsolete! As a matter of fact WD is out of the garage door opener business..Nada..No more! My Son just closed on a house, Texted me a picture of his garage of course, what do I see but an I-Drive. Fortunately the PO disconnected it and installed a real opener..

Is the wall remote for it still there ?

 

[upndown]

Is the wall remote for it still there ?

I haven't seen it yet.The picture he texted was at final walk thru.. why do you ask?