Show off your PROTO/PLOMB Pebble Grain

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Blacknwhitepit, if you got the "War Finish" wrench take good care of it. The "War Finish" wrenches where only sold during WWII to civilians. The "War Finish" refers to the lack of finish and that they weren't warranted. I haven't found one yet.

I need to get my pebble grain pics posted. soon soon

 

[Elroy]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Blacknwhitepit, if you got the "War Finish" wrench take good care of it.

That was one of the major terms in the contract. Fully reviewed by Attorneys on both sides. Just the addendums to the contract required several reams of 20 pound vellum. And don't even ask about the notary fees. Lets just say there was extensive negotiations and both parties are now whole.

Congratulations

 

[Blacknwhitepit]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Once again Elroy, thanks ... It will definitely get a good home. Perhaps I will have it buried with me!!!

-BWP

 

[davestlouis]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I'll gladly help you with that endeavor...I sell funeral plans and cemetery space for a living.

www.baue.com

 

[55Savoy]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Here is the few I have.

 

[lbgradwell]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Wow. Just checked out this thread for the first time; some awesome stuff!

Mopar, PM me if you'd like to sell one of those 3/8" Plomb "Pebble grain" ratchets...

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

55 Savoy those are some sweet looking tools... Let me know if you are interested in selling any of the ratchets... They look pretty nice and I would love to have them to add to what I have.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I know you all have seen these before, but wanted to share the love again.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

You know what people never talk about is how simple, the parts numbers were and still used today. If I want 1/4 inch stuff it is 4749(ratchet) and 47xx for the other stuff, 3/8 5249(ratchet) 52xx, 1/2 5449(ratchet) 54xx, 3/4 5649(ratchet) 56xx and big bertha 1 inch 5849(ratchet) 58xx. I wish snap on would keep the part numbers easier to remember. Just something I notice that makes things easier to find what you are looking for. Also I did get my urrea kits, and they work fine in proto/plomb tools and about half the cost from usatoolsinc.com Just want to share some info, if you want pictures to see how a new proto kit looks compared to the urrea I can take them if requested.

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Picked up a very interesting item this morning at the Wednesday flea market in Cleburne, Tex. It is a 3/8' Proto/Plomb transition breaker bar in full pebble. It says 5265 PROTO on one side with pebbled background. The other side says
MFD. BY PLOMB TOOL CO. U.S.A. with pebbled background. Has anyone ever seen one of these before?

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Picked up a very interesting item this morning at the Wednesday flea market in Cleburne, Tex. It is a 3/8' Proto/Plomb transition breaker bar in full pebble. It says 5265 PROTO on one side with pebbled background. The other side says
MFD. BY PLOMB TOOL CO. U.S.A. with pebbled background. Has anyone ever seen one of these before?

Nice breaker bar. I have seen one just like it on eBay maybe a ratchet like that too. They are from the transitional period. They might have been from the first run when Plomb Tools was trying to get the word out about the change to Proto Tools. Then Plumbs lawyers came back and said no to the "Plomb" use at all.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

The two ratchets I have in the big picture under the tool box, the bottom two are protos with a pebble finish, proto used that style and then changed to a new rounded design. I have heard the bigger ratchets like the 5649 and 5849 may have used it longer. Those are the two in my pictures that aren't plomb.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Also notice how the proto and plomb like like a upside down triangle, that was before they change to proto with an O. I think around early 50's or late 40's after the pebble stuff (plomb) was I think about 45-48 or so.

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

The two ratchets I have in the big picture under the tool box, the bottom two are protos with a pebble finish, proto used that style and then changed to a new rounded design. I have heard the bigger ratchets like the 5649 and 5849 may have used it longer. Those are the two in my pictures that aren't plomb.

Thanks, 48548, I looked at your pictures but didn't know those were Protos since I didn't see the other side. The strange thing about this is that I have a Proto/Plomb 5449 1/2" transition ratchet that is NOT pebbled. It has a round handle. I posted a picture of it today in the show me your vintage ratchet thread.

Also notice how the proto and plomb like like a upside down triangle, that was before they change to proto with an O. I think around early 50's or late 40's after the pebble stuff (plomb) was I think about 45-48 or so.

45-48 sounds right for the Plomb pebbled. The dual marked tools were made in 1948 and 1949 only.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I love the made in usa versions of the ratchets better for some reason, I think because they are flat instead of puffy and they seemed to be made out of a better quality plating, and I think were the earlier of the pebble stuff, the mfd came later. I still looking for a 3/4 plomb ratchet or 1/4 hint hint....

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

The two ratchets I have in the big picture under the tool box, the bottom two are protos with a pebble finish, proto used that style and then changed to a new rounded design. I have heard the bigger ratchets like the 5649 and 5849 may have used it longer. Those are the two in my pictures that aren't plomb.

Something I didn't note earlier is that your ratchets are actually Proto after-transition pebbles. They have no Plomb Tool Co. on them. What size are these? They look like a 1/2" and 3/4" drive in the picture. That certainly doesn't take anything away from them as they are probably much rarer than the Plomb versions. This also means that the breaker bar I bought this morning is still the only dual marked AND pebbled Proto/Plomb that I have ever seen. If anyone else has a picture of any dual marked AND pebbled please post them.

I love the made in usa versions of the ratchets better for some reason, I think because they are flat instead of puffy and they seemed to be made out of a better quality plating, and I think were the earlier of the pebble stuff, the mfd came later. I still looking for a 3/4 plomb ratchet or 1/4 hint hint....

LOL...After looking at your pictures I thought you already had the market cornered on the pebble ratchets.

 

[philw]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Are we talking full pebbled? I have a 3/4 combo wrench that has a rectangular boxes on each end with the size marked in them. The inside of the box is pebbled, the area outside the box is smooth.
It's marked Proto (with the triangle O) 1224 mfd usa plomb tool co.

Also have a pipe wrench which is double marked but of course it's not pebbled.

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Are we talking full pebbled? I have a 3/4 combo wrench that has a rectangular boxes on each end with the size marked in them. The inside of the box is pebbled, the area outside the box is smooth.
It's marked Proto (with the triangle O) 1224 mfd usa plomb tool co.

Also have a pipe wrench which is double marked but of course it's not pebbled.

Yes I am talking about full pebbled. I also collect the Proto/Plomb combination wrenches with the small fields but that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about Proto/Plomb dual marked tools that are full pebbled. The breaker bar in post #50 is the only tool I have ever seen that fits that criteria.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I have never seen (or heard of) a full pebbled dual marked Plomb/Proto anything. I think it's a gen-u-wyne rarity.

V8, my only regret is that you had to pay so much for it, especially during these tough economic times. I can only hope that your family will forgive you for your profligate spending.

If I need to spot you a loan, please do contact me. (I would need said dual marked pebble for collateral, of course.)

 

[snapmom]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

here is a odd one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/unusual-vintage-PROTO-Snap-On-ratchet-nice_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43993QQihZ017QQitemZ270327500492QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

One of those rare Proto-Snap-On collaborations, I guess...

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

here is a odd one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/unusual-vintage-PROTO-Snap-On-ratchet-nice_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ43993QQihZ017QQitemZ270327500492QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

The "Snap On" is just a abuse of a keyword in the listing. There are Proto and Plomb ratchets very similar to this one that where used by Bell Systems. This one is a little bit different and I haven't seen any reference to it yet. The Bell System ones are clearly stamp "Bell Systems".

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

v8garage, I was digging through some of my Plomb stuff tonight and found this little breaker bar:

Here are my Pebble Plomb Ratchets and Breaker Bars:

I have gotten all of these at Estate sales and Yard Sales. The Sale that had the big Breaker bar was the best (the bar was $5). The garage and car port where filled with tools, camping gear, fishing gear, and other cool stuff. I filled my car up at that sell.

 

[MOPARHOUND!]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Here are my Pebble Plomb Ratchets and Breaker Bars:

What is the Plomb # on the 1/2" drive breaker bar??

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

v8garage, I was digging through some of my Plomb stuff tonight and found this little breaker bar:

I have gotten all of these at Estate sales and Yard Sales. The Sale that had the big Breaker bar was the best (the bar was $5). The garage and car port where filled with tools, camping gear, fishing gear, and other cool stuff. I filled my car up at that sell.

Your little breaker bar is just like mine! Isn't it funny that the only two Proto/Plomb dual marked full pebbled tools that we have come up with so far are the same tool? Yes I love the yard sales and estate sales. Find a lot of neat stuff. I find most of my Plomb stuff at flea markets though.

 

[philw]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I wonder if those breakers were produced at the same time as the twin box pebbled wrench style? Maybe it's a possibility that they redesigned the wrenches and left the breakers & ratchets alone. It could be why they left the 2 little pebbled box areas on the wrenches....it ties it in with the pebbled breakers/ratchets. If this is the case then there would not have been any full pebbled dual marked wrenches ever made.
Then a couple years later they dropped the small pebbled areas on the wrenches and matched them with their new round handled ratchets and the pebbled era was over.

We know it was a short time between the 1st Proto stamp and the dropping of Proto altogether so if there is a full pebbled wrench with dual markings it would be very rare. That meant they would have had to go from pebbled to dual marked pebbled then to small boxed pebbled and then finally to plain within a short time.

 

[philw]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Anyone have a 1948 or 1949 catalog?
I have a 1950 catalog and by that time they show only the Proto name. The wrenches were the dual boxed area pebbled and the ratchets were round handled.
A couple exceptions were the line wrenches which still show to be fully pebbled and the 3/4 and 1" drive ratchets which are the flat handle style. Oddly the ratchets do not show the normal pebbled area in the flat part of the handle but that may be an issue with the catalog picture.
Also here is an ad from a 1949 magazine. They already show the round handled ratchets.

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Philw, You are probably correct in assuming that there were not any dual marked full pebbled wrenches (combinations and open ends made). What I am curious to know is just what tools were made that were dual marked full pebbled. All we have been able to come up with so far is a couple of examples of the 5265 breaker bar that fits this criteria.(I didn't think such a thing even existed until yesterday). My 1/2" 5449 Proto/Plomb dual marked ratchet is round handled.

V/8

 

[philw]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

You would think if the breakers were dual marked then there should be a dual marked pebbled ratchet out there somewhere.
It seems to be that those breakers are very rare. If Alloy artifacts is correct in that the first Proto stamp was Jan 23, 1948 or shortly after then that would date the breakers to sometime in 1948 or early 1949 only. Unless the breakers stayed with the pebbled style longer then the ratchets which is a possibility but you would think that Plomb would want the ratchets and breaker handles to match.

Since the 1950 still shows a full pebbled line wrench then I would guess that at one time they would have had a dual stamp and retained the full pebbled look.
Sure would be nice to have a 1948 catalog!

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

MOPARHOUND!, the plomb breaker is #5468 1/2" drive 18" long hinge handle.

v8garage, philw, With so much going on at Plomb/Proto after the war it might be hard to determine what was available in what pattern and stamping. The other years are pretty clear. After the war Plomb Tools was buying a lot of companies and factories. Plus with the lawsuit going on the number of design and die changes could account for very short runs and variations. The line wrenches where still pebbled up in to the early '50s. As for using the catalogs for reference it is a close guess at best, sometimes the pictures leave out the fine details we are looking for in a particular pattern. The two hardest time frames in pinpoint stuff right now is the transnational period and the pre 1930 era both of these time periods just don't have enough data to figure out the questions we have. Although we have a pretty good start.

 

[MOPARHOUND!]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

MOPARHOUND!, the plomb breaker is #5468 1/2" drive 18" long hinge handle.

Thanks for the reply. Good to know, the only 1/2" breaker in the Plomb collection is a #5467, and believe it is a 15"??. I'll be keeping an eye out for the longer #5468.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I have a 5668 3/4 inch and it is longer than 18 inches(about 24). But as for 1/2 I only have a 5467 15inch and a 5466 10.5 inch breaker bar, I think the 5466 is a little rare as I don't see those that often.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Guys, just checked my '49 proto/plomb catalog, and the only FULL pebble that's pictured are:

- Flare Nut Wrenches*
- 3/4 Ratchet (the corresponding breaker bar is round knurled)
- 1" Ratchet (the corresponding breaker bar is round knurled)
- Medium & Heavy Pullers

Since this catalog came out after the big legal blow-up, the illustrations (which might have been prepared in '48?) of the full pebble show no company name at all.

You would think that this catalog might show the breaker you're talking about, but it doesn't, shows a round knurl 3/8 breaker instead.

(* I am suspicious that the flare nut wrenches stayed full pebbled for a long time. They are pretty easy to come by, with either Plomb or Proto markings.)

EDIT: See posts below that confirm the longtime manufacture of full pebble flares, 3/4 & 1 ratchets, and pullers...

 

[v8garage]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

(* I am suspicious that the flare nut wrenches stayed full pebbled for a long time. They are pretty easy to come by, with either Plomb or Proto markings.)

Yes, the full pebbled flare nut wrenches seem to be pretty prevalent in both Plomb and Proto but I haven't seen a dual marked one yet.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

I know the ratchets are pebble, because I have proto labeled ones that are a 5649 and 5849 that are pebble and proto only on the labels.

 

[philw]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

If the 1949 catalog only has the newer style (round breakers and I presume the ratchets are also round) then that leaves only about a 1 yr period of time for anything full pebbled with the exception of what Bolster listed. No wonder why they are rare!!!

48548--Are you ratchets the flat handled regular pebbled style except they have only Proto stamped on them? If so I would think these fall into the same time frame as the breakers, the difference being is that they didn't bother stamping Plomb on them. That would leave another possibility that there were never any dual marked pebbled ratchets, only the Proto version which 48548 has.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

Here they are and they only say proto on them or proto on one side and mfd in los angles on the other.

 

[Bolster]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

48548, what size are the ratchets that are full pebble and marked Proto? (Can't tell for sure from photos, but they look big...) What would be really interesting is a 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 inch full pebble marked Proto. Then Philw's hypothesis becomes even more likely.

A full pebble Proto marked 3/4 or 1" could have been made for a long time thereafter. I seem to recollect seeing these large ratchets still being made pebble in a catalog years later...think I saw that in one of V8garage's catalogs.

 

[48548]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

They are a 5849 1inch and 5649 3/4. Also noted proto is on the bottom side of the handle for some reason on both, and only the 3/4 says made in los angles, and the 1 inch says mfd USA on the top of the handle. I am thinking the 3/4 is much older for some reason, but I could be wrong.

 

[nordstar]

Re: Show off your PROTO/PLUMB Pebble Grain

48548, those big pebble ratchets sure are pretty, I bet they way a ton. They Proto marked one is really nice. Thanks for the pictures.