Bathroom wiring question...?

[Tim Fitzgerald]

Im sure this has been hashed out in here before and I have read a bunch and stay confused. I need to power the following in a small bathroom in shop:

Two overhead lights

Once set of lights over sink

GFCI outlet

Exhaust fan (over corner shower)

One switch that will turn on all lights and fan at same time

with that being said.... This is all within 5' X 14' long space

From what I am getting, it has to have its own circuit. I plan on 12/2 with 20 amp breaker. From there I am confused, read somewhere that the exhaust fan had to be GFCI protected as well as it is over shower....

If someone could please tell me how to correctly run all of this together and not have a code violation, I would appreciate it..

You wont insult me by being very basic. I come here for expert advice from people that have been here there done that. Thanks in advance for help.

 

[volleyball]

Two circuits. 1 for lights and 1 for gfci and exhaust. 15a for lights. 15 or 20 for plug

 

[Mustang51js]

Two circuits. 1 for lights and 1 for gfci and exhaust. 15a for lights. 15 or 20 for plug

Depends on the state also, around here it has to be a dedicated 20 amp line for gfci and that's it,they won't let you put anything else on it not even another bathroom outlet not in the same bathroom. But I would do a 20 for gfci and a 15 for lights with an arc fault on lights if you wanna be up to date.

 

[MrMark]

One circuit, lights and plug. Anything more is a waste. If the light or fan is over the shower you can run to the gfci first and come out the load side for the power leg to the light/fan.

 

[Norcal]

The receptacle(s) need to be dedicated 20A, per the NEC the circuit may serve other bathrooms, or it can supply the receptacles & lighting in that bathroom & no other, fan manufacturers usually have instructions that if the fan is in the tub or shower zone, that GFCI protection is required.

I am not a fan of lighting & receptacles on the same circuit, but that is a design issue.

 

[MrMark]

Depends on the state also, around here it has to be a dedicated 20 amp line for gfci and that's it,they won't let you put anything else on it not even another bathroom outlet not in the same bathroom. But I would do a 20 for gfci and a 15 for lights with an arc fault on lights if you wanna be up to date.

You keep posting stuff like this, based on your state inspectors whom apparently do not follow the NEC. Most states DO follow the NEC with VERY few local amendments. In my City for example, we follow the CA building code, which is the NEC by adoption.

I seriously question whether even in NJ they do not follow the NEC.

Edit: for the NEC rules see Norcal's post above.

 

[Mustang51js]

You keep posting stuff like this, based on your state inspectors whom apparently do not follow the NEC. Most states DO follow the NEC with VERY few local amendments. In my City for example, we follow the CA building code, which is the NEC by adoption.

I seriously question whether even in NJ they do not follow the NEC.

Edit: for the NEC rules see Norcal's post above.

I say around here because not all states adopt the codes,just because it's in the book doesn't mean it has to be done until the state says it can,and even then you get a 6 month grace period.

If have failed before for putting lights on with the gfi because they say if the gfi trips it will shut off the lights and they want the outlet all by itself,so it's just a habit of what I do.

 

[dledinger]

Depends on the state also, around here it has to be a dedicated 20 amp line for gfci and that's it,they won't let you put anything else on it not even another bathroom outlet not in the same bathroom. But I would do a 20 for gfci and a 15 for lights with an arc fault on lights if you wanna be up to date.

AFCIs aren't required in bathrooms.

 

[sammerdog]

Meanwhile, in Sochi...

...what could go wrong?

 

[dledinger]

Nice!

 

[sberry]

I like to run the fans lights with a light circuit and have a dedicated recept circuit, but as the man said its a design issue and sometimes for remodel easier to dedicate 1 new circuit to the room.

 

[Mustang51js]

AFCIs aren't required in bathrooms.

They will be,look in the 2014 code changes,they will be required for kitchens also and gfci behind refrigerator if it's within 6 feet on the sink,oh and gfci protection on the outlets on other side of the wall(back side) of the sink. All laundry room outlets will be required to be gfci and on a afci breaker.

 

[dledinger]

Lol. Ok. Not required in bathrooms per 2014 NEC.

 

[volleyball]

But most places don't go by the current year code. Need time for whatever. I think the 08 is the most "popular" right now but the one for where you are is the only one that counts

 

[Zeke]

Many bathrooms have a heat/light/fan. That should have a dedicated circuit. You can't have the electric heater on and use the hairdryer while the curling iron is heating up with only one circuit to the bathroom.

Not the OP's problem in a shop bath, but since bathroom codes are being mentioned....

 

[Mustang51js]

NEC article 210.23(A)
Art 210.11(c)(3) requires the 20 amps and then takes you to this

NEC 210.23(A)
Exception- the small appliance branch circuits,laundry branch circuits,and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling by 210.11 shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.

 

[dledinger]

But most places don't go by the current year code. Need time for whatever. I think the 08 is the most "popular" right now but the one for where you are is the only one that counts

I believe thats what he meant by "will be".

 

[Mustang51js]

But most places don't go by the current year code. Need time for whatever. I think the 08 is the most "popular" right now but the one for where you are is the only one that counts

We are going by the 2011 code right now

 

[rockwithjason]

this is where it pays to make a call to your local building department. they can tell you what edition of the code they currently use and point you to any amendments they have. here we are currently on 2008 code with about 10 pages of amendments

 

[Mustang51js]

this is where it pays to make a call to your local building department. they can tell you what edition of the code they currently use and point you to any amendments they have. here we are currently on 2008 code with about 10 pages of amendments

I agree, but these guys like to pick on me lol.

 

[Bmwsyc]

NEC article 210.23(A)
Art 210.11(c)(3) requires the 20 amps and then takes you to this

NEC 210.23(A)
Exception- the small appliance branch circuits,laundry branch circuits,and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling by 210.11 shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.

The exception to 210.11.C(3) allows all outlets in a bathroom to be on that one 20 amp circuit if it only feeds that one bathroom. That is how both of my bathrooms are wired.

 

[Mustang51js]

The exception to 210.11.C(3) allows all outlets in a bathroom to be on that one 20 amp circuit if it only feeds that one bathroom. That is how both of my bathrooms are wired.

Yeah you can have a couple outlets in your bathroom like if you have a double sink on one circuit. But from what I get out of it it's only for receptacles and not lighting

 

[Bmwsyc]

Receptacles and light fixtures are both "outlets"

 

[Mustang51js]

It says receptacle outlets so to me it seems specific to receptacles,and it's same with the inspectors on how they interpret the code. I had two inspectors give me different rulings for afci breakers,it's says if you change the footprint of the house,one inspector told me the footprint is the outside dimension of the house and another said anytime a wall is moved.

 

[volleyball]

Is the bathroom new? Going to be inspected? Done by a pro?

 

[Bmwsyc]

The exception in 210.11 says outlets, does not specify receptacle outlets.

 

[dledinger]

He doesn't know the difference.

 

[Mustang51js]

The exception in 210.11 says outlets, does not specify receptacle outlets.

I copied it out of the book, it says receptacle outlets in the 2011 code book.

 

[Mustang51js]

He doesn't know the difference.

Look it up before you tell me it's not in there,2011 NEC if you even have one

 

[dledinger]

I think you should read it. The exception is remarkably clear; you just don't grasp it.

 

[Mustang51js]

I think your the one not grasping it,it says small branch circuits required in dwellings shall supply only to the receptacle outlets specified in that area.
Unless you are counting receptacle outlet as a light fixture

 

[Mustang51js]

And that exception is for art 210.23 permissible loads which says you can have lighting and receptacles on same branch circuit but then the exception for laundry and bathrooms is under that which means it doesn't apply to that it applies to the exception.

 

[dledinger]

I seriously hope you do not do electrical work on other people homes.

 

[Bib Overalls]

"Sparkies, the Code Warriors," coming soon. Shocking, argumentative, confrontational, cable pulling, wire nut stomping, reality TV at it's best.

 

[2ManyProjects]

Meanwhile, in Sochi...

Nice try. The image in question is obviously Photoshopped, and was submitted to http://fx.worth1000.com/ as part of a photo-editing contest some four years ago:

http://fx.worth1000.com/entries/574912/shower-fuse

(Rather well before Sochi.)

That said, you DID get my heart rate up for a moment there...

 

[Tim Fitzgerald]

OK Guys...., I got the impression that how I choose to do the circuit is basically my discretion, but for the remainder of my question from the original post..., could someone pls explain the route that the wiring should take from service panel to end of run object ... I listed what I was trying to do at the begining of my post

Feel free to PM me if that would alleviate a code war I am just a basic Joe trying to get some safe basic instruction on how to do this, not that there werent some valid points brought up but I think everyone know where Im going with this...

 

[Norcal]

Meanwhile, in Sochi...

...what could go wrong?

Wrong voltage in Sochi, for a QO panel, they are 220/380 volts 3 phase 50 Hertz, QO is 240 volts maximum.

 

[alfredeneuman]

You keep posting stuff like this, based on your state inspectors whom apparently do not follow the NEC. Most states DO follow the NEC with VERY few local amendments. In my City for example, we follow the CA building code, which is the NEC by adoption.

I seriously question whether even in NJ they do not follow the NEC.

Edit: for the NEC rules see Norcal's post above.

NJ Code is essentially the 2011 NEC, with NJ amendments.

The amendments roll back the AFCI requirements to the 2005 NEC.
Romex is allowed above grid ceilings in commercial occupancies.
Pool grounding and bonding are different than in the NEC.
They've addressed Mobile Home and RV parks.
And some purely Administrative changes to Article 90

Other than that, all the NJ code is straight from the 2011 NEC

 

[volleyball]

Being a commercial location, running the wire in conduit may be the best bet. What is the existing wire?

 

[Mustang51js]

I seriously hope you do not do electrical work on other people homes.

How about explaining where it says you can instead of just disagreeing and putting me down, at least I tried to show you why I think that way with my experiences and the only answer you can give is I'm wrong.

To the original post,what kind of walls do you have up,wood,metal. Do you have anything existing in the area and are the other walls sheet rocked coming from the panel. It's up to you on how you want to split the circuits because in reality you could get away with one circuit for everything because I doubt you will be using a hair dryer in the shop bathroom lol.