Outlawmws
Well-known member
For holding items with non-parallel surfaces. the swivel jaw allows full width contact.
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
For holding items with non-parallel surfaces. the swivel jaw allows full width contact.
Hot Chop shop
Well-known member
Hey thanks for all the comments!
Thanks for the information! Any idea on weight? I read a similar post that claimed 280... But I thought that be the mythical 209 reed.
Thanks for the information! Any idea on weight? I read a similar post that claimed 280... But I thought that be the mythical 209 reed.
balane
Well-known member
280 Lbs. sounds like a lot but Filson knows his stuff.
balane
Well-known member
While I've refinished a Wilton baby bullet before I've yet to have the opportunity to work on a Powr Arm until this one. I included a before photo this time. This one has a manufacture date of 12/03/65. Action is very, very smooth.
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EOC_Jason
Well-known member
Would it be sacrilegious to paint a York vise a color other than RED??? I have it all primed, but I know I don't have enough Red to paint it good... I do have a dark blue and a matte green I've been wanting to try, but it just seems so wrong to do that to a York. On the other hand, like the last 3 vises I've painted have been Red (which is probably why I'm out!)... LOL..
It would be like painting a Wilton some other color than their bluish-green color...
It would be like painting a Wilton some other color than their bluish-green color...
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Iron hoarder: glad to see another new member with plenty of good old steel joining our thread and group. Quite a collection you've got there. Welcome and hope you can get shipping worked out so we can exchange old US for old English steel.
Hot chop: I think I remember Filson saying his Reed 108 weighs 278 but yours has the heavy swivel base so he Reed 208 might be over 300. Any warehouses close by with a big floor scale to weigh it? You can weigh it in pieces if you don't have a scale as another good option since you are planning on restoring it. Good luck
Jason: Blue would look awesome or maybe another boiled linseed oil. Your vise your color.
Hot chop: I think I remember Filson saying his Reed 108 weighs 278 but yours has the heavy swivel base so he Reed 208 might be over 300. Any warehouses close by with a big floor scale to weigh it? You can weigh it in pieces if you don't have a scale as another good option since you are planning on restoring it. Good luck
Jason: Blue would look awesome or maybe another boiled linseed oil. Your vise your color.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
joe.striper
Well-known member
So today I finihed my Parker 825. What a beast, weighing in at 130 lbs with 5" jaws.
The repair on the dynamic tail came out great and it operates smoothly.
Took a while to pick the color before choosing this satin green.
Threw my back out moving it so I could take these picks.
The repair on the dynamic tail came out great and it operates smoothly.
Took a while to pick the color before choosing this satin green.
Threw my back out moving it so I could take these picks.
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joe.striper
Well-known member
Great idea. I tried that and was able to remove the base and use the giant bolt holding the swivel base to the body to push a rod onto the bottom of the pin. (it was almost a straight shot). All it did was raise the static jaw and I was afraid of damaging the casting after a few good taps from above didn't free it up. (the pin doesn't appear to be frozen in the body, only the static jaw)
The good news is that I think the jaw will rotate just fine once that pin is removed. It doesn't appear to be frozen.
I tried the heat and cold method and it still won't budge.
I think plan C is to just be patient and keep applying Kroil over the course of a week or two to see if it helps free it up.
Plan D is to clamp some big vise grips around the pin and give it a big whack and see if rotational force frees it up, I really hate to do this since it'll ****** up the pin with jaw serration marks.
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Dave, what I would try and have done quite a bit for blind pins that are proud of the surface. Tack weld a nut to the top then thread in a slide hammer. A few wacks should get it out. Then just carefully grind off the nut and turn the face flush on top. It looks like the top is mushroomed already. This way you wouldn't have to ****** up the outside diameter of the pin. Just my 2¢ 
Well, at least it wasn't pink.
I just painted a 3" Wilton bullet hammertone black...
Well, at least it wasn't pink.
bl00
Well-known member
The older style 208 was listed at 278
Your newer style was listed at 281
The 209 was listed at 327
taumac
Well-known member
Nice findI have dreamed a dream... And that dream is to join the big boy club of huge vise owners... Today is the day.... Drum roll please...
5 Stitches Garage
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211899
Florida GJ Group
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=117
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Outlaw, you are dead to me...
Hey, it could have been worse, Much worse!
SNIP
Well, at least it wasn't pink.
See?!
A 73 year old cross dresser? No, Pink wan't in the cards....
I figure this puppy was born in 1942. That's 73 years old! And think how old in dog years!
You dress dignified as you age.
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I'm not convinced it's that old. Does it have a date stamp on the bottom of the slide? I just got this Wilton on Friday with a date stamp of 10 46 (1946) and it has a different logo and swivel clamps. Yours might be a bit older than my gray one that has a date stamp of 1952.
Not sure what color to paint it....
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EOC_Jason
Well-known member
But seriously, whatever floats your boat... lol.
s2kattracks
Well-known member
Was at my wifes school yesterday and noticed the agg shop has a nice old 5-6" wide jaw Wilton. Will take a better look next time I am there
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Date Code 4-47 (-5 = 42)
If the date doesn't have the clause "GUAR EXP" along with the date, you don't subtract 5 years. If I subtracted 5 years from my 1946 date, mine would be made before Wilton began selling bullet vises!
This thread makes some sense of it (start at #74)
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86615&page=4
AFAIK you have a 1947 vise, which is still very old!!
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
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I picked up this really nice old Yost 205 two weekends ago. It weighs in at 92lbs, and is a 5" machinist vise. Since purchasing, I free'ed up the rotating table/locking lever, wire brushed the slide, hammered in the pin which holds the dovetail in place, lubricated the screw and slide, and performed basic cleaning. I can now spin the handle with one finger throughout the dynamic jaws 8.5" of travel. I still have to remove the locking collar which adjusts the backlash on the main screw. It looks like I need to put a new set screw in its place and potentially shim it with a thin washer. I have about 3/8" or 75* of play between when the dynamic jaw initially slides and grabs on the screw (most of the play is still in the dovetail retention pin). I would like to adjust it so that it is perfect before permanently mounting it to my workbench. One thing of interest, is that the new Yost 205 has a deeper throat, but weighs nearly 20lbs less! They also seemed to move locations from Meadville, Pennsylvania to Holland Michigan since mine was produced. The only thing I wish my 205 had was a set of removable jaws. The jaws on mine are in decent shape, but could use a good filling to make perfect again,
Chris
Chris
Fretters
Well-known member
Colour obsession is for girls, not blokes.
Any colour you can look at without wanting to poke out your own eyes is a suitable colour. Look at me; 'most everything is green or burgundy. Originality is fine, but being able to stick the sight of your own equipment is even better. That's why I won't touch the general machine grey/blue/yellow with a bargepole.I'm doing the young 'uns York at the moment, and that one, (when I finally get the last of the paint off, that is. God knows what type of paint they use, but the original paint clings like **** to a blanket), is just being coated in linseed oil. He can't decide whether he wants it painted or not, so we've erred on the side of caution and gone with the finish which can be readily painted over if he decides to have it painted.
I occasionally resort to mole grips out of necessity even though I really do dislike using them, but provided you put a sacrificial sheet between the jaws and the piece, you'll usually leave no marks whatsoever whilst maintaining the gripping ability. Best thing to use is a piece of copper plumbing pipe. Anneal it, slit it down it's length and then wrap what's now a single layer of copper around the pin. You'll not be able to apply enough pressure to perforate that copper, and it'll give you ample opportunity to apply some welly with the mole grips. Worst case scenario, it'll slip whilst the pin doesn't move, but at least you've tried and not damaged the pin.
TreePointer
Well-known member
The Revised/Revision vises I've seen actually have the "R" as part of the model number and have an "oil" hole in the dynamic jaw. What I find interesting about Davefr's vise is that it has neither. I was thinking that the R on Davefr's vise may have been from an era or a short period when Reed cast and R for "Reed" into the dynamic jaw.
Outlawmws
Well-known member
I've been through that thread. Lots of speculation, and very few hard facts.
As to differences in castings, until someone starts listing specific sizes, with specific casting markings, with specific dates, and correlating them, very little beyond speculation can be made.
Wilton was VERY loosy, goosey about their castings, and claims to patents, patent pending, etc. look at the baby bullets: many (All?) have "Chicago" castings, but dates for Schiller Park.
Mine, whether it is 42 or 47, has NOTHING about any patents. It's only a 3" however, not a lot of space... others in the general era have "Wilton Tool" but the few I've noted are all 4" or larger...
Using one piece of data does not make a case, and that 1945 stamped early vise could easily have been mis-stamped. It was wartime, and any non- critical errors would have been used as is. Guaranteed.
A similar example: Parker has some early examples with 1818 patent dates on it , yet they were passed on. 1918 was WWI, and again, major shortages, and recycling, and scrap NOTHING.
Without any concrete testimony, what WAS the "GAR EXP" supposed to mean? Was it a note to the date? Or for vises sold to the US Government and no guarantee was to be honored? (Plvmb and many other tool companies did this in WWII, and still do today...)
Many many people (Some old enough to have lived through it) have stated unequivocally that Wilton kept the expiration dates for a long time.
Maybe my vise is 1947, maybe it was 1942. I simply don't think Wilton or anyone else was caring about how it looked during the wartime frenzy and the national basis that EVERYTHING made was for the war effort.
Consumer production of ANY non-essentials was near to ZERO from a couple of months after Pearl Harbor, to well after VJ day.
Cars? nada. Trucks? Mostly Army only, very few were made for other than supporting war time manufacturing.
Sewing machines? Only for war time factories (Singer was making M1 carbines and other war gear...)
Younger people generally have NO CLUE what the war years were like for America. I'm deeply interesting in history in general, and for many years really dug into both WWII and its precursor, WWI. Not just the battles, as the battles were decided by much larger efforts than what actually happened on the ground (Not to lesson the efforts of our solders and their sacrifices, but the opposing solders made similar sacrifices, and the deciding factors were superior manufacturing, and not having that mfg. base bombed out...)
Back to the subject of Wilton: Without a LOT more careful analysis, I don't think anyone can make a conclusive statement on this topic. Just opinion, and opinions differ...
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Dave: nice Reed swivel jaw vise. Just an fyi if you do happen to ****** up the swivel pin getting it out a replacement is easily made. KMScott or a few other members make nice ones for about $30 or I've seen some make them out of a bolt with a grinder if you don't have a lathe.
Fretters: how is the paint over the linseed oil test patient doing? Did the paint mix with linseed oil happen yet?
Outlaw and Ex: I asked Steve-o who is a member of GJ and wrote that quote on his junk yard website and he couldn't say for certain about the 5 year expiration dates on the original Wilton vises. He was quoting another person. WWII was during those years so finding any information isn't easy. I haven't seen any stamped prior to 1946 so thinking Wilton might have started the 5 year warranty dates from day one until late 50's or early 60's. Anybody have a Wilton dated earlier today than 1946?
Fretters: how is the paint over the linseed oil test patient doing? Did the paint mix with linseed oil happen yet?
Outlaw and Ex: I asked Steve-o who is a member of GJ and wrote that quote on his junk yard website and he couldn't say for certain about the 5 year expiration dates on the original Wilton vises. He was quoting another person. WWII was during those years so finding any information isn't easy. I haven't seen any stamped prior to 1946 so thinking Wilton might have started the 5 year warranty dates from day one until late 50's or early 60's. Anybody have a Wilton dated earlier today than 1946?
oldldh
Well-known member
Outlaw---
At that vise's age...
Black is the only age-appropriate color...
Other the "Arrest-Me-Red", of course...
At that vise's age...
Black is the only age-appropriate color...
Other the "Arrest-Me-Red", of course...
The 3" size of that era tend to say "No 3" on them as well as Wilton Tool. Here's one for example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-194...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
And that one would have to be later than '41 since the patent was not approved until 1942. That one was likely around 1942-1943
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Which "that one"?
Neither Balane's, nor mine has patent info on them. you seem to be adding to the 1941 for his, and 1942 for mine argument?
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Drives: In the thread, and on the page/post ExMax was quoting, there is a vise with a 1945 code on it.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Outlaw: my roofer accidentally cut my cable so posting from a cell phone. Since it could have been an accidental stamp of 1945 and still sold it would be nice to see a few others. I'll look at that thread when I don't have a 3 inch screen. Thanks
Fretters
Well-known member
That linseed followed by paint affair is holding up fine. No notable difference between that and straight paint.
The mix seems to have worked fine too. Not noted any separation of the oil and paint in the jar upto just, and the pieces which were painted with it have dried fine, with no paint defects, and it seems just as solid as straight paint. It did flow a lot better onto the smooth surface too. No notable brush marks, which are usually nigh on impossible to work out on a smooth surface. Two pieces were done one layer normal paint and one layer of mix, but I have got an old belt driven grinder on its first coat which is just having the oil/paint mix applied.
One other benefit I noted is that it allows a little extra time for reworking the paint if there's a run, without having to use spirits or thinners on a brush/cloth to try and flow it in.
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Hot Chop shop
Well-known member
So I was taking apart the Reed 208 tonight to let it soak and it came apart in about 2 mins so easy until I reached the large flat head type bolt on the bottom... I tried every screwdriver and crowbar and even took another threads advice about making your own out of scrap metal and vise grips... but nothing worked... Going to the oil soak in tonight and try tomorrow... Anyone found a better tool for the job? Thanks!
TreePointer
Well-known member
I had trouble with a similar similar slotted bolt head on the bottom of a Craftsman vise (not a rebadged Reed). Instead of trying to turn it by the slot, I ended up turning it by grabbing the outside of the head with common vise grips (no pun intended).
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DWise
Well-known member
Would a drag link socket and impact wrench work?
wrenchguy
Well-known member
i put a 90 on a piece of flat stock that fit the slot and that wide or wider.
bigcaddy
Well-known member
This is what will work! I have a large drag link for smaller reeds and a custom piece of 2" flat stock for bigger ones. That bolt shouldn't be tight, just a snug fit
Drives: In the thread, and on the page/post ExMax was quoting, there is a vise with a 1945 code on it.
That is the vise that Autoprts says is indeed a 1945 vise, and where he iterated that the clause "GUAR" must be included if you want to subtract 5 years. He also noted that only the very earliest vises had 5 years added to the mfg date. This would likely have included the Pat Pending vises and the next series immediately after the patent was awarded---those numbered No. 3, No.4, etc
But then there's the theory that the workers were essentially free to cast or stamp whatever they felt like. That explains model 840's as being produced along side (or even before) No. 4's, etc. Or Model 930's before No. 3's. Or the "mis-stamped, there's a war going on, let's get these Bullets outahere" theories.
I contacted a college buddy last night that recently moved to Colorado, and he recalls learning from a friend of his uncle that the Pat Pending vises were actually stamped with a code number (rather than a date) as part of the war effort, and only the Wilton employees had the special decoding ring needed to interpret it. But he's kinda nuts, so I will only believe that the Wilton I just paid $5 for was part of the original Patent approval process run of 46 units, and mine was sample #10 of 46.
I hope to have all this documented soon on Wikipedia, as only then will it be verifiable.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Ex: I own a patent pending Wilton bullet with a 10/46 stamp on it which tells me that it was an October 1941 vise then Pearl Harbor was about a month later so I bet a lot of factory workers left their jobs to enlist. Now I've also seen an EXP 62 on a Wilton C1 so guessing it was made in 1957. All the other bullets I've owned just have had dates on the slide or nothing. Zoomie, Autopts,Balane and maybe a few others have seen more than their fair share of these so would love to hear their comments. Also I bet their are a few members here that might have worked at Wilton or had Dads and Grand Dads that did that might know more. 70 plus years of making the same basic vise they are doing something right so someone must have the answer.
Fretters: sounding like a win, win with the boiled linseed oil before applying paint or mixing it in it. I'll try it on a few of mine before I spray paint to see if similar results. Thanks for experimenting with that.
Fretters: sounding like a win, win with the boiled linseed oil before applying paint or mixing it in it. I'll try it on a few of mine before I spray paint to see if similar results. Thanks for experimenting with that.