JohnnieMo's Dream Garage

[JohnnieMo]

Hi everyone. I'm a new member who is embarking on a big garage build. I've been doing a lot of research and keep coming across this site. It seemed like a good group to join.

My project is a first of its kind for me but I've done a lot of home renovations so I'm confident I'm up to it.

I live in Calgary and as such don't have a lot of space. Right now I have a 24x22 heated garage on my paved back lane. It's got gas and good 60A power. Immediately beside the garage is a 24x16 asphalt pad. Here is a mock up I made in smart draw.



I use the garage to store the daily driver and my toy car. I use the pad to store my boat.

My desire is to get all three, plus my Chevy Avalanche, stored indoors for next winter because stuff like this keeps happening:


I'd also like more space for projects. I have a lot of tools, primarily for carpentry and auto-work. I also want to add water and sewe for a sink and floor drain.

I'm pondering two options:

OPTION 1

Remove or knock down the existing garage, then build new.

It's in good shape and is about 25 years old. It will need new shingles soon but is otherwise fine. It's insulated and has been a good little shop for me. I asked a local company for a quote and they can take it away for about $6000.

The big question is, what will someone pay for a used garage? $5000? $10000? That's the big factor in this choice.

Here's a picture.



The new garage could reach back 26.5' and stretch to over 36' wide. I could also go to 10' walls and a scissor truss roof to fit a lift. Max height allowed in Calgary is 15'.

OPTION 2:

Modify the existing garage to meet my requirements.

This is a big job.

- remove roof
- build walls up to 10'
- move right side wall out to make 36' width
- add new scissor truss roof
- do a new floor pour to get slope
- increase height of existing door.

I've done some sketchup work to see how this would go.

Garage as it is now:



Proposed build out:





You'll note that it's a bit of a dog's breakfast but it's do-able.

This route allows me to save a lot of exterior work, siding, windows and obviously a lot of lumber. However it adds complexity.

One advantage is that the garage is still usable for parking my fleet while the new expansion pad hardens. This seems insignificant but when you own 3 cars and 3 trailer's, that transition time is important.

My estimates put the new build at $33k and the retrofit at $20k. I'm doing most of the work and will rely of professional friends and family for framing and concrete. This doesn't involve 'furnishing'.

-------------------

The one gotcha in all of this is my boat. The boat is 21.5' long but has a little over 2' swim platform off the back. Total length is 23'10". The existing garage is 23' interior depth. This means the garage needs a cubby hole in the back to fit the platform. I did take the platform off to do a test run for this winter and it fit.



So I have millions of questions. But the first and foremost is which way to proceed? New build or retrofit? I'd love to hear about your experiences and your points of view.

I have $20k in cash. Everything after that comes out of my hide.


Sent from my Passport

 

[JohnnieMo]

Well I've been having some fun with Sketchup. I muddle away at it and eventually find something good. I found vehicles for the garage too and that really helped. I had to settle for a Mastercraft.... sigh.

These images are of the retrofit version.... so adapting the existing garage. The major issue is the boat doesn't quite fit. I could build out that section a bit.

Anyways, this is how I spend Friday nights now.















The coolest thing is seeing how the car can fit up under the vaulted ceiling and I can still fit the Avalanche underneath. Sweeeeet.

 

[6t7gto]

How wide is the single door?
Eight feet wide is tight for an avalanche with the mirrors extended.

 

[readhead]

I would add on. Can you make the new part deeper for the boat?

 

[JohnnieMo]

Thanks for the feedback.

The door is 8'. My thinking was why make the door wider than the lift? The lift is 99". I'm looking at the Pro King 8 XXL:

http://liftking.ca/index.php?page=pro-king-8-xxl

However on second thought it may be worth adding that extra foot, just to make entry easier. I approach perpendicular to the opening so that's a good idea.

As for lengthening the new part, that's an option. It makes the roof more complicated though. The major hurdle is that the boat needs the double door for entry. So the doors would have to move. I again end up with a completely new build being more practical.

Sent from my Passport

 

[rburke65]

You won't regret making the G. door wider.

 

[overkill 19]

You can apply to get more height. In Red Deer it was a $50 fee

 

[JohnnieMo]

You can apply to get more height. In Red Deer it was a $50 fee

My wife really wants a storage loft. That would require a couple extra feet. Thanks for the tip! I'll look in to it. If that's what it takes to get her to approve of this, I'll do it.

Sent from my Passport

 

[overkill 19]

My wife really wants a storage loft. That would require a couple extra feet. Thanks for the tip! I'll look in to it. If that's what it takes to get her to approve of this, I'll do it.

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Red Deer has same bylaw 14'9" to peak. I asked for 26' hoping for 24' ... I got 18' !

I'll get some more updated pics on day!

 

[JohnnieMo]

Who decides what you get? What is the process? I already need a special permit for size, so it might not even cost me any extra?

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[overkill 19]

Municipal planning commission is what it's called here.

In RD they send out a plan of your garage to all your neabours so they can complain if justified. If you back onto a park of condos, apartments etc you will pretty much get what ever ya want as you can say you want to block the eye sore.
I sold it as I wanted to keep all my truck, sled engines etc all inside..absolutely nothing out side as a eyesore. Luckily the only guy who complained lived on the other side of the street 1/2 block away and had 3 cars under tarps, truck with 4 flat tires on the street...he made my case ! Lol
Hindsite I'm glad I never got 24' it would have been too much. I think it suits the back yard, blocks the ally the little deck/stairs turned out awesome we sit there a lot in the summer.

 

[overkill 19]

one for the Canucks!

 

[JohnnieMo]

Are you posting pictures of your house???? Wow... that is a gorgeous structure. I'd love to see some interior pics and layout. Do you have a build thread?

I have a nice wide, paved rear lane, but no eyesores. My neighbours are good folk so it would probably be fine.

My structure won't be nearly as ornate so I'm probably not going to win points for beauty.!!!

Sent from my Passport

 

[overkill 19]

Are you posting pictures of your house???? Wow... that is a gorgeous structure. I'd love to see some interior pics and layout. Do you have a build thread?

I have a nice wide, paved rear lane, but no eyesores. My neighbours are good folk so it would probably be fine.

My structure won't be nearly as ornate so I'm probably not going to win points for beauty.!!!

Sent from my Passport

It's a 32x20 beside a 24x24 beside a16x8
Things that where Best money spent imo
-Scissor truss
-dormers
-skylights
-48" man door off shed "16x8"
-2"SM under slab
-Xmas light plug in eves with switch inside

 

[Frankstools]

Very Nice!

 

[JohnnieMo]

What is a dormer? And what is that steel beam doing across the bottom picture?

I checked with a colleague today who is building a new house with garage. He said the development permit costs about $350 and they post a notice on your house for two weeks. The neighbours then have those two weeks to request information and lodge a complaint. So it sounds like it is a pretty passive solicitation. The big thing is probably convincing them why I need 18' to begin with.

My house is 18' tall, so that is reasonable justification. When I get a chance, I'll create a design.

 

[nicksL98]

Any way you can get rid of the boat? Frees up extra space n more $$. I will always tell people to build as big as you can afford, then add 20%more square footage... Because you'll easily find ways to fill the extra. Good luck with it!

 

[JohnnieMo]

The boat is the reason I need the garage!!! BOAT=Bring Out Another Thousand.

The car is the one I should get rid of, but I'm so deep in to it and I've had it so long, it's like a member of the family.





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[BeachBoy]

your measurement of the boat is on the trailer? my fathers trailer has a collapsible tongue so the trailer gets shorter than the boat in front for storage.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Yes it is 23'10" from the tip of the boat to the back of the platform. The swing away tongue makes the trailer a hair shorter than the boat (in the front)

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[overkill 19]

What is a dormer? And what is that steel beam doing across the bottom picture?

Dormer is the jet out window in the roof on left side of picture. It lets s ton of light and makes garage visually appealing imo. So when I look out my back door I'm not staring at a rectangle box. The beam was original for a small mezzanine and overhead lift. But I've changed plan a little. I'm trying to not have mezzanine. I want everything off the floor but I also don't want clutter up above, if I can help it. I went from this...

To this...

 

[overkill 19]

 

[rayra]

I'd suggest going for the expansion to the existing structure, with the roofline higher, so the garage is useable now and during. And then raise the old roof to match, creating the loft throughout. Or at a later date / stage.

 

[nicksL98]

A blown 30th TA?! Dude, i'd make that boat sink Then again I'm not much of a boat guy. seeing as I live in cleveland, you only get about 4 months to use it and I can't drive a boat to work everyday do you happen to know a guy named Daz who has a couple thirdgen camaros?

 

[dubber]

@overkill19 you should start up a thread if you haven't already. I've really enjoyed all the pics and info you have shared. And I'm sure that I'm not alone

 

[overkill 19]

@overkill19 you should start up a thread if you haven't already. I've really enjoyed all the pics and info you have shared. And I'm sure that I'm not alone

Thx
I started a build thread but got to busy.. I'll dig threw my pics and do a update. Thx

 

[JohnnieMo]

A blown 30th TA?! Dude, i'd make that boat sink Then again I'm not much of a boat guy. seeing as I live in cleveland, you only get about 4 months to use it and I can't drive a boat to work everyday do you happen to know a guy named Daz who has a couple thirdgen camaros?

It's guys like you who remind me why I keep that thing

No, I don't know Daz. I've really been out of the racing and car scene for a few years since kids took over my life.

@overkill19 you should start up a thread if you haven't already. I've really enjoyed all the pics and info you have shared. And I'm sure that I'm not alone

I agree. I managed to track down your original build thread and it was quite impressive.

I made a quick design last night to compare a new build with a loft to the old build. The new build is around 18'. It is a bit deeper (26') to fit the boat, and is a foot wider due to the changes in proximity bylaws since the last garage was built.





----

Here is what I don't understand though. Guys on here are building absolute palaces for like $15k. My build out is already at $20k and that's without paint, flooring, and any accessories at all. I'm flabbergasted how they do it. Here is my spreadsheet as it stands now on the first design (the retrofit)

Overhead
Development Permit $350
Inspections ?


Materials

Dumpster $500
Excavate $1,000
Aggregate $600
Water/Sewer $750
Heated Line $400
Diamond Saw Rental $75
Concrete $750

Walls
Header 2x4 $100
Wall studs 2x4x10' $79
Studs 2x4x8 $58
2x6x10 $18
2x10x10 $22
Wall Sheathing $110

Scissor Truss $2,280
End cap $80
Roof Sheathing (1/2") $337
Shingles etc. $2,000
Eaves Trough $400
Soffit $244
Flashing $40

Siding $1,900

Drywall walls $280
Drywall ceiling $208

Electrical $1000
Skylights $520

Garage doors $2500

Labour
Framing 2500
Drywall mudding 1500
Plumbing 1500
Concrete 1000

So I've only got "some" labour costs in here, but I'm doing most of the work myself. The framing is still for a buddy, as is the concrete pour. Both are professionals but I'm looking at a discount.

 

[overkill 19]

It's guys like you who remind me why I keep that thing



No, I don't know Daz. I've really been out of the racing and car scene for a few years since kids took over my life.







I agree. I managed to track down your original build thread and it was quite impressive.



I made a quick design last night to compare a new build with a loft to the old build. The new build is around 18'. It is a bit deeper (26') to fit the boat, and is a foot wider due to the changes in proximity bylaws since the last garage was built.











----



Here is what I don't understand though. Guys on here are building absolute palaces for like $15k. My build out is already at $20k and that's without paint, flooring, and any accessories at all. I'm flabbergasted how they do it. Here is my spreadsheet as it stands now on the first design (the retrofit)



Overhead

Development Permit$350

Inspections?





Materials



Dumpster $500

Excavate $1,000

Aggregate $600

Water/Sewer $750

Heated Line$400

Diamond Saw Rental $75

Concrete $750



Walls

Header 2x4$100

Wall studs 2x4x10' $79

Studs 2x4x8 $58

2x6x10 $18

2x10x10 $22

Wall Sheathing $110



Scissor Truss $2,280

End cap $80

Roof Sheathing (1/2") $337

Shingles etc. $2,000

Eaves Trough $400

Soffit$244

Flashing $40



Siding$1,900



Drywall walls$280

Drywall ceiling$208



Electrical $1000

Skylights$520



Garage doors$2500



Labour

Framing 2500

Drywall mudding 1500

Plumbing 1500

Concrete 1000



So I've only got "some" labour costs in here, but I'm doing most of the work myself. The framing is still for a buddy, as is the concrete pour. Both are professionals but I'm looking at a discount.

I was just over $115
My concrete along was over $25
City of red deer states 4ft retaining wall for any thing over 500sqft... That stung

 

[JohnnieMo]

I was just over $115
My concrete along was over $25
City of red deer states 4ft retaining wall for any thing over 500sqft... That stung

I assume you are saying $115k?

That actually makes some sense, given that palace you've got there. Is this just our Alberta advantage at work here? Or are we missing something?

Did you do much labour yourself?

 

[overkill 19]

I did as much as I could
All the skid steer work before and after. wiring, vacuum pluming, deck. Helped with concrete work.
Wiring really shocked me I was right around the $9000 mark.. I think my feed wire from house was over a grand. It's starting to hurt just thinking about all this stuff

 

[JohnnieMo]

I'm looking at assisting with everything but outright doing all the electrical, siding, roofing, drywall, and finishing. I need help with excavating, pouring the concrete, any underground plumbing, and framing the roof in particular. I should be able to do the rest.

I'm not sure if I need footings. I suspect if I build a loft they will ask for footings. A guy down my alley just built a 32x26 three car and the city demanded footings.

Maybe my old garage is worth more than I realize!

Sent from my Passport

 

[dubber]

This information is awesome, especially since its in Canadian pricing so i can get a true sense of the scope.

 

[overkill 19]

U can submit a engineered slab which most likely will become a thickened edge. So 12"x 24" all the way around out side edge. For me I just said screw it , almost the same amount of concrete. I needed a retaining wall on the house side anyway plus I like to be able to wash floor and drywall does not get wet. I also put 2" SM on outside of frost wall and underslab.

 

[overkill 19]

This information is awesome, especially since its in Canadian pricing so i can get a true sense of the scope.

$9000 is not norm unless you are running a 220v 60amp welder with two plugs, I put one near alley for weld jobs that won't fit in garage. 220v40amp for milling, and 220v40amp I think for air compressor. 220v 40amp for future car lift in ceiling. And lots of 20amp double plugs threw out garage as I hate grinding something and have breaker trip. Plus my garage 100amp feed is a good 150ft run

 

[overkill 19]

I paid most of it to contractors with cash.
Two soccer moms installed my insulation and vapour barrier for $1000 labour and they supplied plastic and sealant. They were 3 days. Back and forth dropping kids off etc but they work like ninjas and imo they were awesome! And cheap! Considering me and my wife just about got a divorce over trying to hang one wall of vapour barrier and sealant!!! We had that black **** everywhere and good thing she had the razor knife as I wanted to slit my wrists!!

 

[JohnnieMo]

I'm going to do a complete budget for either option and post it up here to everyone to compare.

For electrical, I only have a 100A service to the house, and I ran a 6 gauge cable myself to a new Siemens panel. So for boxes, switches, receptacles, fixtures and wires I figured $1000. I could be wrong.

 

[overkill 19]

I'm going to do a complete budget for either option and post it up here to everyone to compare.

For electrical, I only have a 100A service to the house, and I ran a 6 gauge cable myself to a new Siemens panel. So for boxes, switches, receptacles, fixtures and wires I figured $1000. I could be wrong.

I have 100a to house as well, I don't think u can get more ... In RD anyway. Figure out how many breakers ya need then ad 30-40% better to have room to grow. Mine ended up just about full cause I listened to the electrician vs my gut!
Home Depot
Breaker box with breakers kit is what I did then added what I needed after. It was cheaper then individually

 

[overkill 19]

I really like your loft plan...kids will too!

 

[Brichter14]

Dude get that garage built asap. The snow on those wetsounds makes me cringe.

 

[JohnnieMo]

Dude get that garage built asap. The snow on those wetsounds makes me cringe.

Don't worry. That picture was from May this year. The boat is indoors now, with not much room to spare.