Nitrogen caution!!!!

[DangerousDan55]

Granted we have very smart guys on this forum discussing the use of nitrogen in their tires. BUT, consider the hazard of this inert gas at home. If you acquire a bottle of nitrogen, where would you store it? Lets say, in you house garage for instance. Now there are many possible ways to have your N2 bottle or piping to develop a leak. Maybe even not closeing the valve tightly. Now the garage is filled with N2 which displaces the breathable oxygen. Then yourself or a family member enters the garage to play, do laundry, ect. It dosent take long before someone drops dead from lack of oxygen.
In my years of fire service.I have see this exact situation with propane stored in the garage except for the end results were an explosion when the leaking propane reached the water heater. Happened several times in my 17 years of service.
People just let their guards down on the hazards of propane. So will happen with nitrogen as the general public. Also. some people are just ignorant of such hazards. They Never even thought that there could be any concerns.

So, nitrogen is a great product, but VERY deadly!
Myself, I wish to try not add such a invisible, silent killer for one of my family members to accidently release. If not by my own inattention.

 

[exmaxima1]

So, nitrogen is a great product, but VERY deadly!
Myself, I wish to try not add such a invisible, silent killer for one of my family members to accidently release. If not by my own inattention.

A quick search revealed 80 deaths during 1992-2002 (8 per year).

Umm, compared to tobacco, guns, alcohol, DUI, bee stings, etc, I don't think this even shows up on any list of dangers. I think you are FAR more likely to trip over a kid's toy in the garage and kill yourself.....

But good to know

 

[PelicanPines]

I thought air is 80% nitrogen...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Nitrogen in confined spaces is dangerous, but in something like a shop, probably never notice. I do recall an aircraft mechanic working inside a fuel tank (confined space) using nitrogen to power an air drill, that didn't come out too well, as he died. This is probably how most of the deaths occur, serious confined space suffocation.

Charles

 

[PelicanPines]

Nitrogen in confined spaces is dangerous, but in something like a shop, probably never notice. I do recall an aircraft mechanic working inside a fuel tank (confined space) using nitrogen to power an air drill, that didn't come out too well, as he died. This is probably how most of the deaths occur, serious confined space suffocation.

Charles

Ahh ok i get it now. Thanks. Now im worried about the 12 one pound propane tanks i have in a cabinet.

 

[slip knot]

not too much different than my A/O rig in the garage.

And sometimes I park the truck in there too. its got 30 gallons of gasoline in the tank and 50 gallons of diesel in the bed tank...

 

[pi_guy]

um most of the welding gasses will put you in a deeper situation like Argon.

 

[nanofrog]

What brought this on?

I ask, as it's already been mentioned in the 10 year span of 1992 - 2002, there were only 85 asphyxiation reports from nitrogen, and from industrial settings at that.

And although tragic, it shows how rare this actually is. And the statistical odds of happening in a home environment is even lower as it's not used daily 8+ hours per day.

You're by far in more danger of dying in a car accident on a daily basis than nitrogen asphyxiation.

BTW, nitrogen isn't an inert gas, and makes up the majority of our atmosphere (~78%). It's even lighter than oxygen (molecular weight is 14 vs. a mw of 16 for oxygen).

 

[ducksface]

Argon under a bathroom door while the husband is showering.
I'm going to write a book....

 

[600SL]

I would say Freon out dose nitrogen in displacing air.

 

[srmofo]

Stairs are far more dangerous than a bottle of inert gas. Granted itprobably shouldn't be kept in a basement, but other than that I wouldn't give it a second thought.

 

[gungatim]

what about CO2? how many guys have a mig with a tank or two of that? or the non-shop guys with their own kegerator/bar setup? what happens if I have several cases of Guiness that all develop a leak and the nitrogen leaks out of that? ( I know, drink it quick!)

in my shop I have a O/A setup, a mig with C25 and Argon, Tig with it's tank, 2 large co2 from soda machines, and 3 spare co2 from other uses, in addition to old R12, R22, propane, gasoline, oil, a parts washer filled with mineral spirits, a cabinet with leftover painting supplies including thinner, acetone, MEK, solvents, etc. but no Nitrogen

oh and a wood stove in the corner...I guess I just like to walk on the wild side...

 

[DangerousDan55]

Yea, I know. I got all that **** in my shop also. But using nitrogen & allowing kids to fill their car or bicycle tires is asking for higher risks.
There are car guys on this forum that truely unaware of some of these hazards.
Some of you have what I believe are just smart *** responses.
again, I got all that **** on my shop. One thing you did not mention is oxygen. 100% oxygen will kill you also.
As for,nitrogen makes up the majority of our atmosphere (~78%) correct Watson, but try to breathing ONLY nitrogen inside a closed garage (confined space!) YOU WILL DIE!

Nitrogen displaces oxygen which creates an inert atmosphere & one dies.

Again, I've been in the fire service for over 17 years & have pulled more dead dumb asses out of confined spaces And houses than most of you will in your lifetime. I glad that I didn't know any of them.

Some guys on this forum are new to the gear head world &
Just Don't Know!
Some are adults & some may be teenagers.
We should be mentors to others.

Or, are you guys saying that it doesn't matter how someone handles all of this stuff, cuz it will NEVER hurt you.

I happy I didn't teach my my son using your mindset.

 

[ADSR]

So if you run a little buddy propane gas heater in the garage, you could die?

 

[ducksface]

Post one and post thirteen.

A tip and a chip.

 

[DangerousDan55]

Questions to answer are how small is your garage. How air tight is the garage. How long are going to be inside the garage. How many BTU's its producing. So, yes it will kill you but I cant say how long it will take.

Granted propane is a cleaner burning fuel? But people die every year due to propane heaters being used indoors.

Just Google "Propane heater deaths 2014"

 

[ducksface]

Your son comment bothers me.
You wouldn't teach him that if someone says nitrogen that a normal thoughtful thinking person would extrapolate that out to mean any gas that will alter your particular atmosphere, and that therefore building a fire within confines also qualifies as altering your atmosphere?

You teach yours about one of ten thousand scenarios, I guess we'll teach ours to expand a thought in to a practicality.

 

[gpalmer77]

Nitrogen is not simple asphyxiation as many think. Much quicker. The imbalance of nitrogen and oxygen causes the body's natural regulation of breathing to get all screwed up. You stop breathing, instantly. No grabbing your chest saying I can't breathe. Out. Down. Done.

 

[Lx460]

What if I eat at the "Loco Taco" and get real bad gas...can my farts kill me?

 

[jim1987]

I feel let down. I thought this was going to be about dancing pipes. (Oil field people know what I mean)

 

[DangerousDan55]

Yes if you breath ONLY fart gas. You will die.
If you breathe 100% O2 your breathing WILL stop due to your body sences high O2 levels in you blood stream, until it the CO2 & O2 leves in the blood stream are back to normal. The problem is all you have to breathe is 100% O2. So, your body NEVER starts breathing again.

At sea level air has 21% oxygen (actually 20.9%)
Minimum O2 level for safety is 19.5%
So, in just 1.4% loss of O2 in air quality, you start getting into real problems.

The moral if the story is don't **** *** with the boss!

 

[CNGsaves]

What if I eat at the "Loco Taco" and get real bad gas...can my farts kill me?

. . . . only if your *** is on Fire and your **** is a catchin' !!!!!

If that happens, then do NOT try to put out fire with pure Oxygen bottle !!

 

[ar2stp48]

"...If you breathe 100% O2 your breathing WILL stop due to your body sences high O2 levels in you blood stream..."

IF this is true, then a patient with rebreather O2 mask running 12-15 L/min would have serious problems? Do they stop breathing? Or was the O2 applied to improve their condition? Even a nasal cannula at 2 to 4 L/min increases the O2 level

Thought one of body's breathing sensor monitored CO2 level rather than O2. When a person is hyperventilating, what is done? Have them breath into and out of a paper bag? This causes them to rebreath air containing higher percent CO2; this CO2 is monitored and breathing returns to norm

"...air has 21% oxygen...Minimum O2 level for safety is 19.5%
So, in just 1.4% loss of O2 in air quality..." Have not seen the 1.4% loss number and no calculator handy.

Each breath at say 14 times a min (normal range is 12 to 20 breaths per minute), you inhale approx 500 cc of air at the 78% N and 21% O2. Of that 21% O2, only approx 5-6% is retained and replaced by CO2 on exhale--body is not overly efficient here. A good calculator exercise would be to use any size room; figure the volume; then vol of O2; then how long to deplete O2 supply for survival. Reaching way back for these numbers, but think they are all correct

 

[DangerousDan55]

Yep. Your saying what I was referring to., you being in the medical field, know that the rebreater nor the nasal makes for 100% O2 only. Also you monitor the persons O2 Saturation. l also gave people "the bag" and they settled down and they removed the bag themselves. My posted expanations were off the cuff but were with same end results. Which was aimed for the people that just want to show their *** & Not help the new guys.
Figuring the size of a room(sealed room) has the same end results after figuring the size of a bag sealed around a persons head. Same results just time of death s different.

If you allowed nitrogen to fill a room/ garage, displacing oxygen, & you allowed your children to enter that room , you just killer your own child. Peroid!
A room, a garage, or a bag. Its the same except for Time of Death.

 

[nuklbstr83]

What if I eat at the "Loco Taco" and get real bad gas...can my farts kill me?

haha. nice.

 

[gatorgrabber]

Interesting discussion. So how large a tank of N2 would it take to totally displace all of the O2 in, say, a 2 car garage if it suddenly leaked out? Given the drafty nature of most garages, how long would this low O2 condition be sustained?

 

[exmaxima1]

Nitrogen is not simple asphyxiation as many think. Much quicker. The imbalance of nitrogen and oxygen causes the body's natural regulation of breathing to get all screwed up. You stop breathing, instantly. No grabbing your chest saying I can't breathe. Out. Down. Done.

Not quite. You may fall unconscious without warning, but it will still take about 10 minutes to actually die.

Per WiseGeek:

"When someone is exposed to a sizable amount of nitrogen, it does not take long for the nitrogen to lower the amount of oxygen in the body. Within several breaths — five or less — there is enough nitrogen to lower oxygen levels. After about a minute, nitrogen asphyxiation begins and the person typically passes out. While this exposure is normally from nitrogen as a gas, liquid nitrogen also can asphyxiate people.

Some people may begin to convulse after passing out, but this is not always the case. The person also may just look like he is sleeping. Most people can only be exposed to nitrogen for five to 10 minutes before it causes nitrogen asphyxiation and death."

 

[exmaxima1]

Interesting discussion. So how large a tank of N2 would it take to totally displace all of the O2 in, say, a 2 car garage if it suddenly leaked out? Given the drafty nature of most garages, how long would this low O2 condition be sustained?

The closest estimate would be around "never".

 

[jaye944]

Toy's don't kill people, kids kill people.
Kill the kids, no toy's problem solved

I think you are FAR more likely to trip over a kid's toy in the garage and kill yourself.....

 

[sgtmac]

In my line of work (aircraft maintenance) it is very dangerous but for a different reason.

It's common for the unaware to hook a 2000 psi regulator to a tire and launch tire tire into outer space and they die a majority of the time too.

 

[Fishplate]

As I understand it:

The largest typical nitrogen tank has a capacity of around 330 cubic feet.

The typical two-car garage has a volume of 3800 cubic feet.

The solution is left to the reader.

 

[rburke65]

Wow...... This has been so interesting..........

 

[angrystroker]

What is the point, nitrogen filled tires?

Why not helium, lighten up the car go faster, smaller contact patch less tread wear, what's not to be loved.

Nitrogen, in bicycles and street cars ... really how about a break.

 

[ishiboo]

As I understand it:

The largest typical nitrogen tank has a capacity of around 330 cubic feet.

The typical two-car garage has a volume of 3800 cubic feet.

The solution is left to the reader.

This.

 

[gpalmer77]

Not quite. You may fall unconscious without warning, but it will still take about 10 minutes to actually die.

Per WiseGeek:

"When someone is exposed to a sizable amount of nitrogen, it does not take long for the nitrogen to lower the amount of oxygen in the body. Within several breaths — five or less — there is enough nitrogen to lower oxygen levels. After about a minute, nitrogen asphyxiation begins and the person typically passes out. While this exposure is normally from nitrogen as a gas, liquid nitrogen also can asphyxiate people.

Some people may begin to convulse after passing out, but this is not always the case. The person also may just look like he is sleeping. Most people can only be exposed to nitrogen for five to 10 minutes before it causes nitrogen asphyxiation and death."

No offense, but I'll go with what I learned in tech rescue class over what you found on the interwebs.

The garage instance here probably never poses a risk, but there's been many a person who dropped in a nitrogen rich atmosphere, and didn't even know it happened. This is not lack of oxygen, this is disruption of the body's ability to breathe. In the worst of cases, the hole watch goes in after the victim instead of waiting for help, and he goes down too.

 

[jaye944]

3 minutes without oxygen and the chances of you being a vegetable for the rest of your life is about 99.95%

Not quite. You may fall unconscious without warning, but it will still take about 10 minutes to actually die.

Per WiseGeek:

"When someone is exposed to a sizable amount of nitrogen, it does not take long for the nitrogen to lower the amount of oxygen in the body. Within several breaths — five or less — there is enough nitrogen to lower oxygen levels. After about a minute, nitrogen asphyxiation begins and the person typically passes out. While this exposure is normally from nitrogen as a gas, liquid nitrogen also can asphyxiate people.

Some people may begin to convulse after passing out, but this is not always the case. The person also may just look like he is sleeping. Most people can only be exposed to nitrogen for five to 10 minutes before it causes nitrogen asphyxiation and death."

 

[jgorm]

If it could fill a room with enough nitrogen to suffocate you, you would hear the tank hissing like a missile. N2 is probably one of the safer compressed gasses. Knocking the top off of it and really turning it into a missile is a far greater concern.

 

[exmaxima1]

No offense, but I'll go with what I learned in tech rescue class over what you found on the interwebs.

Really? You only believe what you heard from a guy that heard it from some other guy that nitrogen is deadly and will kill you suddenly within a few breaths....

I'm from the other side of the coin that believes that if nitrogen was so deadly, insurance companies would have put the squeeze on having shop kids putting nitrogen into tires. They wouldn't take the risk.

But clearly nitrogen is not inert, it's not poisonous, it occupies 78% of our atmosphere, and it kills you essentially at the same speed as drowning in water.

 

[LX-Markham]

If it could fill a room with enough nitrogen to suffocate you, you would hear the tank hissing like a missile.

This.

I just can't see a small leak ever displacing enough oxygen to make a dent in the available oxygen.

I also don't understand the craze of filling tires with nitrogen. If you are racing a car where the tire temps and pressures are changing, sure. But the everyday commuter!?

 

[jim1987]

Want a real deadly gas? H2S.