The VISES of Garage Journal

[davidless]

These Wilton Bullet vises got me stumped

This is what I know, Wilton makes 3 USA models, tradesman, CO ie combination and the machinist, the prices vary considerably.
Well, this is my dilemma, we have many in our plant but we also have one that is I believe has a 3-3/12 jaw width but is reletively small compared to the other 2, I know the tradesman doesn't come smaller that a 4 1/2.
Also this small bullet also has a jaw opening at lease 6 or more inches in length.
I will get accurate measurements later today
I just can't figure out these smaller bullets, because one would fit my roll away perfect, not to large not to small.

Thanks for any help

David

 

[bagged89s10]

These Wilton Bullet vises got me stumped



This is what I know, Wilton makes 3 USA models, tradesman, CO ie combination and the machinist, the prices vary considerably.

Well, this is my dilemma, we have many in our plant but we also have one that is I believe has a 3-3/12 jaw width but is reletively small compared to the other 2, I know the tradesman doesn't come smaller that a 4 1/2.

Also this small bullet also has a jaw opening at lease 6 or more inches in length.

I will get accurate measurements later today

I just can't figure out these smaller bullets, because one would fit my roll away perfect, not to large not to small.



Thanks for any help



David

Snap some pics while you're measuring too.

 

[zkling]

These Wilton Bullet vises got me stumped

This is what I know, Wilton makes 3 USA models, tradesman, CO ie combination and the machinist, the prices vary considerably.
Well, this is my dilemma, we have many in our plant but we also have one that is I believe has a 3-3/12 jaw width but is reletively small compared to the other 2, I know the tradesman doesn't come smaller that a 4 1/2.
Also this small bullet also has a jaw opening at lease 6 or more inches in length.
I will get accurate measurements later today
I just can't figure out these smaller bullets, because one would fit my roll away perfect, not to large not to small.

Thanks for any help

David

Some of the older bullet style vises were quite a bit smaller overall compared to the more modern versions for a given jaw width.

 

[bagged89s10]

My latest acquisition. An Athol 623.
3" wide jaws with swivel base. Sits approximately 8" tall by 12" long closed.
It works very smoothly. Just needs a good wire wheeling, paint, and polish. The jaws are pristine.

Does anyone know the production dates of these athol 623 vices?

 

[davidless]

OK, This is the Vise
3" wide jaws and opens 6"
number on the side is 10104 300

Made in Schiller Park IL

What do you think?

 

[Bill Ramsey]

Haha. I'm in the same boat as you now. Nice find! How much was it?

It was attached to a 2'x4' rolling steel worktable with 1/4" plate top and shelf, which I wanted as much as the vise. Gave $160 for both.

 

[davidless]

Some of the older bullet style vises were quite a bit smaller overall compared to the more modern versions for a given jaw width.

Wondering what its worth and if it is classified as a mechanic's or machinists wise

 

[balane]

Patriotic themed 5" Shop King.

.

 

[bagged89s10]

Patriotic themed 5" Shop King.



.

Nice work! even the lighter's patriotic.

 

[mantemec]

I have been hunting for a while for one of these. Finally after two weeks of negotiations I got it. I knew they were big but it was pretty nice to see it in person. Its got character and style. I got a picture compare to the C3. I cant wait till get looking nice. Nice looking vise. it is missing on block of the pipe jaw but I dont see a problem making one for it. Now my back hurt from carrying the vise.

 

[bagged89s10]

Does anyone know the production dates of these athol 623 vices?

My Athol 623 is a baby next to my Wilton 1760

 

[Fretters]

Hopefully I have rectified that situation somewhat now, I still need to make a few replacement screws to hold the jaw plates on as a couple are damaged but I think it looks a little better.

Looks much better. Are you going with the original style bolts, where they have a plain shank where it passes through the insert/cast, or just using standards screws/bolts? If the latter, just some 5/16", (if I recall correctly), BSW countersunk screws/bolts will do the job.

Is it possible to date these vices from their serial numbers? This one has no military date stamps on it and I'm kind of curious to know it's age.

I believe my '36 one is 1595, and the '44 one is around 20thou or so, so it drops on somewhere between those.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

They are indeed 5/16 BSW, I'm only going to replace the 3 damaged ones and I really want some with a plain shank. I've looked around and could only find fully threaded ones so I'll turn a few out of some modern 8.8 bolts out of the drawer.



Cheers for the rough dating, I was surprised once I'd stripped the vice quite how poor the rough castings looked .....

 

[drivesitfar]

MM: nice pair of big vises. is your Vanderman a #2 (200 pounds) or a #3 (300 pounds). I've got a #1 and it weighs a solid 100 pounds. might i suggest taking these big vises apart when hauling them from where you bought it to home next time?

CW: sorry i agree your paint job on your Swinden looks a lot better. can you show how you make the new jaw screws with a post or two over on the vise repair 101 thread? for some of you guys it's a piece of cake and for those of use with no machinist background and just trying to learn it would help a lot.

thanks

 

[CwazyWabbit]

DIF: I'm no expert at it and will probably get laughed at by the professionals but I'll grab a couple of pictures whilst I do it and pop them in the repair thread.

 

[Fretters]

They are indeed 5/16 BSW, I'm only going to replace the 3 damaged ones and I really want some with a plain shank. I've looked around and could only find fully threaded ones so I'll turn a few out of some modern 8.8 bolts out of the drawer.

I've got full thread ones in mine for the time being. Partial plain shanks seem to be nonexistent as an existing, standard countersunk bolt type. Need to get one of my lathes up and running before I can turn some original style ones though. I know the existing ones are technically fine for purpose, but it'll bug me forever and a day if I don't change them over eventually. Pretty much none of my original bolts came out in a usable state, so they all need replacing.

Cheers for the rough dating, I was surprised once I'd stripped the vice quite how poor the rough castings looked .....

Now you can probably guess why I refer to the Swindens as being rough as a badgers ****, with a face only a mother could love. They're solid vices and perfectly functional, but aesthetics was obviously never top of the list, (if even it was on the list at all), for Swindens.

Picked up a Parkinson's 8A at the weekend which I bought the other week, btw. I'll post a photo or two later.

Also picked up what I think may be an 80mm Bison Bial, judging from the styling. It's a style of vice I've kept seeing second hand on and off and always been tempted by, but was never sure whether to take a chance and buy one when they occasionally cropped up on Ebay. Then, the other week, someone mentioned they had one I could have, so picked that up too when I went for the Parkinson. Had a notion it was possibly a European rather than an Asian vice, with it being metric sizing, so when I got it back here, I went through the European makers until I dropped across a photo of one which looked the same, which was the Bison. I'll post a photo or two of that one too. That's currently in the vat, trying to get the paint off mainly. It had some slight surface rust, but that's all but gone now.

 

[dutchgray]

Parkinsons 8a
Nice big find Fretters.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

I've got full thread ones in mine for the time being. .... Pretty much none of my original bolts came out in a usable state, so they all need replacing.
...

Mine had spent the best part of a week in the tank loosening that previous paint job off as it was pretty well stuck in places. The nuts came off quite easily after that and all the damage is historic, I was half expecting to have to drill them or heat them up to remove them.

....Now you can probably guess why I refer to the Swindens as being rough as a badgers ****, with a face only a mother could love. They're solid vices and perfectly functional, but aesthetics was obviously never top of the list, (if even it was on the list at all), for Swindens.

....

You're not wrong there, for a while I was thinking I must have got a Friday afternoon vice and I was wondering why on earth everyone raved about them, luckily the enamel paint covers a lot of the sins up but for an expensive vice I'd have thought they could have shown it the grinder a bit more.
The bits that are machined are spot on though

....
Picked up a Parkinson's 8A at the weekend which I bought the other week, btw. I'll post a photo or two later.

Also picked up what I think may be an 80mm Bison Bial, judging from the styling. It's a style of vice I've kept seeing second hand on and off and always been tempted by, but was never sure whether to take a chance and buy one when they occasionally cropped up on Ebay. Then, the other week, someone mentioned they had one I could have, so picked that up too when I went for the Parkinson. Had a notion it was possibly a European rather than an Asian vice, with it being metric sizing, so when I got it back here, I went through the European makers until I dropped across a photo of one which looked the same, which was the Bison. I'll post a photo or two of that one too. That's currently in the vat, trying to get the paint off mainly. It had some slight surface rust, but that's all but gone now.

An 8A, now that's a big boy Can't wait for some pictures of that.

The bison sounds interesting, is one of those with the dovetailed style slide runners?

 

[topop101]

Patriotic themed 5" Shop King.

.

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about !BAM !Love it. I had the same idea for my shop king.. but yours is even better than I imagined.

 

[Fretters]

Parkinsons 8a
Nice big find Fretters.

Cheers. It's definitely a big'un. My arms were aching by the time I'd carried it down to the shed, and I'm not exactly unused to lugging stuff around. I was quite glad when I could put it down on the floor.

I was half expecting to have to drill them or heat them up to remove them.

On the '36 one, I didn't have any choice but to drill half of them out. They'd used blank head screws with no slots in four of the holes, to stop anyone removing/nicking the inserts. All the others, on both vices, were either rusted solid else mangled beyond usefulness.

You're not wrong there, for a while I was thinking I must have got a Friday afternoon vice and I was wondering why on earth everyone raved about them, luckily the enamel paint covers a lot of the sins up but for an expensive vice I'd have thought they could have shown it the grinder a bit more.
The bits that are machined are spot on though

Sounds pretty much the norm. Like you say, the machining is spot bollock. With the rough cast though, they did take that part literally, it seems.

An 8A, now that's a big boy Can't wait for some pictures of that.

It does make the No.7 look a bit compact.

The bison sounds interesting, is one of those with the dovetailed style slide runners?

It's just a standard style one, like our designs, not the fancy dovetail type. I think their current model number for it is the 1250. Seems quite a decent bit of kit. Sturdy enough build and all the machining meets snuff. It has a leadcsrew nut like the old Parkinson Handy's, in that it's part of the casting instead of a separate piece.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Not surprised you ached a bit, the 8A is 100lb according to the book

 

[Fretters]

Not surprised you ached a bit, the 8A is 100lb according to the book

My arms definitely agree with that weight. A couple of photo's, with the obligatory mug for scale.

That line around the lower portion of the rear jaw where it meets the body appears to be either a slight casting flaw or some marking from their mould original.


This is what I believe is likely a Bison.

These show the nut and underside of the body.

Don't know why, but the styling of those vices has always caught my eye.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Fretters: You're right about the Bison. It's identical to the one that I inherited from my Dad. The word "POLAND" should be stamped on the end of the handle side of the spindle.
I agree. They're cool.

 

[Fretters]

Fretters: You're right about the Bison. It's identical to the one that I inherited from my Dad. The word "POLAND" should be stamped on the end of the handle side of the spindle.

Cheers Mark. I'll check that tomorrow and see if I can find that marking.

I agree. They're cool.

Something about them, isn't there. Every time I've seen one crop up over the last couple of years I've always had a "should I/shouldn't I" moment, so never got one until this. They look better in the flesh too. Photo's just don't seem to do them real justice, for some reason. That's probably why I was mainly undecided in the past.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

There's a lot of height in those 8A's, that's got to be 2.5 to 3 mugs in height

What's the cut out on the static jaw mounting for on the Bison? is it just a feature?

 

[juwasco]

My small collection...some projects in the future

 

[Fretters]

There's a lot of height in those 8A's, that's got to be 2.5 to 3 mugs in height

Hoping to get the 7 at the side of it over the next few days to give a better comparison for size.

What's the cut out on the static jaw mounting for on the Bison? is it just a feature?

Far as I can tell, it's merely a metal saving exercise. The front jaw has no matching notch to suggest it being used for an extra insert or suchlike.

 

[Fretters]

My small collection...some projects in the future

Nice vice. Give it time, and small is not a word you'll be using any more. They lead you astray from the sensible path in this thread.

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Nice vice. Give it time, and small is not a word you'll be using any more. They lead you astray from the sensible path in this thread.

Don't I just know it

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Fretters: I'm looking forward to the 7 and 8A side by side pictures

 

[Fretters]

Don't I just know it

I think it's quite safe to say you literally just jumped straight off the cliff instead of slowly sliding down the slippery slope of late. Found a spot for *the* Record yet?

 

[Outlawmws]

Wondering what its worth and if it is classified as a mechanic's or machinists wise

Worth is all relative, and area has a lot to do with it. Look at similar Wiltons on Eprey to get an idea, and CL for asking prices locally (but don't be too shocked at the CL sillyness...) but again some areas they are relatively common, others, not so much.

It IS a Machinists vise.

Patriotic themed 5" Shop King.

.

Just in time for someone to get for either Father's day, or 4th of July!

 

[Garageguy54]

Yesterday I posted a pic of a Dunlap 5171 bench vise and I found some more info. Here is what found out. The Dunlap name came from Tom Dunlap who was a head of the craftsmans hardware department (after the original hardware head Arthur barrows who trademarked craftsman for Sears). He upgraded the quality of the tools and added chrome plating to them as the USA moved to the automotive age. The Dunlap name was not used until 1941 replacing companion brand. This was all I could find but, these websites had some info vintage machinery.org and Wikipedia.GG54

 

[Smokeshow69]

Yesterday I posted a pic of a Dunlap 5171 bench vise and I found some more info. Here is what found out. The Dunlap name came from Tom Dunlap who was a head of the craftsmans hardware department (after the original hardware head Arthur barrows who trademarked craftsman for Sears). He upgraded the quality of the tools and added chrome plating to them as the USA moved to the automotive age. The Dunlap name was not used until 1941 replacing companion brand. This was all I could find but, these websites had some info vintage machinery.org and Wikipedia.GG54

I would be curious to see who made that vise. It looks reed to me as they where the manufacture of craftsman vices around that time period. Really good find there!

 

[meatsis]

Rock island made vises for craftsman around that time also. That Dunlap is clearly a rock island. The jaws are a dead giveaway

 

[mantemec]

It is a number 3, I dont think it weight 300lbs, It feel like around 175lbs i pick it up by myself with no problem I try to take it apart but i think is design to come apart from the handle side. I am not sure. But it is a monster, i love it. very good shape over all.

 

[oldldh]

Continuous readers of YRHMBLSRVNT'S Drivel...

Will notice that the majority of the just posted clampers are---

NON-SWIVELIN' B@#TARDS!!!

Swivelin' is vastly overrated...

Necessary, sometimes...

But...

Overrated...

 

[CwazyWabbit]

I think it's quite safe to say you literally just jumped straight off the cliff instead of slowly sliding down the slippery slope of late. Found a spot for *the* Record yet?

that's a very accurate description! I must have over 40 now.
Still need to clear some bench space for "The Vice" , not sure what will be worse, lifting 240lb or unscrewing that massive screw all the way out half a turn at a time to split the vice in two?

 

[revamp]

Okay, I posted on another thread what seems like a week ago without a single comment, so I'm cross posting here. You guys are the ones that made me want to spend a weekend playing with a vise, anyways...

Well, I recently picked up a 506-51811 and spruced it up (Pardon the cell phone shots--I didn't take the pics with the idea I'd be posting them anywhere). This thread is what made me feel confident painting a classically red craftsman vise green (coincidentally, it now matches my old Littlestown 400)

The color is Rustoleum Satin Hunt Club Green. I used chemical stripper and then wirewheeled everything. 2 coats of self-etching primer, then three coats of paint. I hand sanded the handles to brighten them up a bit. Thanks for the inspiration, guys!

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Looks like a different vise now I think the quality of the paint job is far more important than getting the colour to match an original, and you've made a lovely job of that one