bagged89s10
Well-known member
One of my wife's cousins owns a welding shop and said he can probably just cut a piece to fit and braze it depending on the size. I'll have to bring it to him.
VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix
- Thread starter drivesitfar
- Start date
vintage nut
Well-known member
That sounds like a good option to me!
Sent from my C1904 using Tapatalk
Sent from my C1904 using Tapatalk
HandyVan
Member
Ever try to remove a broken tap? They're harder than anything you might try to drill it with. My trick is to "freeze" it with a shot of CO2 and then shatter it with a hammer blow. It will usually fracture length-wise, and you can use a magnet to extract the shards.
vintage nut
Well-known member
I'll have to try that next time I break a tap off! So far the only tap that has failed me was one I was using on my big morgan 160.... Definitely helps to buy good taps.
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Sent from my C1904 using Tapatalk
vintage nut
Well-known member
The one exception to drilling it I can think of is the square die drills kbc tools sells. Solid carbide, and designed to drill steel up to 70 rockwell. Their advertising picture is one of their bits drilled sideways through a tap! I've never used one though.... About 40 bucks for a single 1/8" bit....
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Sent from my C1904 using Tapatalk
sz0k30
Well-known member
This is for you Prentiss guys. I have an old Prentiss 4" swivel jaw with the only lettering being on the top rear of the static jaw. It also has the round button spring loaded swivel base plunger that requires super human strength to pull up. Has anyone taken this plunger asm apart and if so, how? Thanks.
Hello everyone. My first post. I'm a fan of vintage tools and picked up an American Scale #40 from a thrift shop and found that it's missing the nut/washer/collar on the screw that opens the jaw. I'm not sure how to go about replacing it and hope someone can recommend something. I thought about a two piece collar, but I can't find one that fits the width of the recess. Only other idea is to spot weld a thick washer in place, but I don't know. I wonder how they installed it in the first place? I've added a couple of pics.
-Chris
-Chris
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Shiftless
Well-known member
Hi Chris,
Welcome to the board! Hang around and post more photos of what you are doing. Most of us are happy to give advice and share our experience.
I had a very similar vise problem with a 1970's Craftsman. The previous owner had tried to solve the problem with several turns of bare copper wire.
After I cleaned everything up, I got a washer that just slipped over the shaft and secured it in place with a little piece called an e-clip sized to clip tight into the groove. Try that fix before you weld.
Welcome to the board! Hang around and post more photos of what you are doing. Most of us are happy to give advice and share our experience.
I had a very similar vise problem with a 1970's Craftsman. The previous owner had tried to solve the problem with several turns of bare copper wire.
After I cleaned everything up, I got a washer that just slipped over the shaft and secured it in place with a little piece called an e-clip sized to clip tight into the groove. Try that fix before you weld.
Attachments
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DRRummel
Well-known member
Hi Chris,
Welcome to the board! Hang around and post more photos of what you are doing. Most of us are happy to give advice and share our experience.
I had a very similar vise problem with a 1970's Craftsman. The previous owner had tried to solve the problem with several turns of bare copper wire.
After I cleaned everything up, I got a washer that just slipped over the shaft and secured it in place with a little piece called an e-clip sized to clip tight into the groove. Try that fix before you weld.
Did you grove the shaft to hold the e-clip in place? If so, how did you cut the grove in the shaft?
There are two versions of that item that I know of......either the 'button' will be secured to the shank of the tapered-plunger pin with a small cross-pin (polish the edge of the button and look carefully), or the button will be threaded onto the shank.
If you don't see the cross-pin, there's really nothing for it but to file a couple of flats on the tapered end of the plunger, to be able to hold it in a vise, and make up a little bush to protect the button when unwinding it from the shank.
In practice, one may have to destroy the parts to remove them, and its best to make up a new 'tapered plunger' with an easy slide fit in the back jaw casting.
(edited.......I'd not be at all surprised to find that some of those had the 'button' secured by peening over the 'tapered-plunger' shank like a rivet. That would be the obvious 'cost-saving' assembly change, before they did the design change to the little cast lever handle.....if you find that, then, indeed, you'll need to destroy the parts to remove them......but making up a new tapered-plunger and its button is easy.)
cheers
Carla
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Shiftless
Well-known member
The groove was cut by the factory. That arrangement is common on many brands of similiar vises with the exposed screw. It is not necessary to provide a really beefy piece there. The only force applied with the eclip and washer combination is the force applied to OPEN the vise jaws.
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sz0k30
Well-known member
Carla,
It is your version #3. Button swaged to the pin.
It is your version #3. Button swaged to the pin.
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Elisc, with the width of that groove, it probably had a thick "washer" style C clip. Very soft and crimped closed. (Almost like a lock washer, but a bigger gap, not spring steel, and flat.)
McBrownie
Well-known member
SK,
My Prentiss has the lever plunger (the improvement over the button). Mine was working fine and I left it in place when I stripped and refinished it. I'm glad I did. If yours is not broken, you may want to leave it as is.
Shiftless
Well-known member
Outlaw is right. If you can find that soft C clip, I would go with that. My local ACE hardware had a little drawer with various sized E clips so I spent 30 cents and my vise was fixed!
OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Carla: thanks for your post. i for one always look forward to reading what you have to say. how are you feeling?
McB: agreed that oiling or putting a little Kroil on it before destroying it would be my first option to fix a Prentiss pull pin for the swivel base.
SZ: can you post pictures and let us know if using some PB blaster or Kroil loosened up your Prentiss' swivel pin?
McB: agreed that oiling or putting a little Kroil on it before destroying it would be my first option to fix a Prentiss pull pin for the swivel base.
SZ: can you post pictures and let us know if using some PB blaster or Kroil loosened up your Prentiss' swivel pin?
sz0k30
Well-known member
My swivel plunger pin works fine. Its not stuck. Its just that the spring is so strong its just about impossible to pull up enough to pull the plunger shaft out of the hole in the base, which makes it impossible to swivel.
bagged89s10
Well-known member
Upon closer inspection of my Chicago 5" Wilton, it's very rough. The rear pin hole was cracked and the dynamic jaw has left to right slop. I'm assuming the keyway is worn. I might just part this one out for the time and money it will cost me to properly repair it.
Don't know where I would locate a C clip with that kind of width. Looks like I'll need two 9/16 washers and an E clip to make it snug.Outlaw is right. If you can find that soft C clip, I would go with that. My local ACE hardware had a little drawer with various sized E clips so I spent 30 cents and my vise was fixed!
jobyb2006
Active member
Wilton C1 Restoration
Finished it all up,
Overall this vise was in good shape just some rust in the pipe jaw wells, and the underneath, OK a lot of rust..LOL not deep though.. aside from the rust it was overall in pretty nice shape after all. anvil nicked up, slight bending to small swivel handles. left these issues alone,,,,
I had real trouble with the end cap, may not have been original, the cut on it was a little wavy on the barrel, maybe it was fencepost cap, who knows..
TIP...Dowels through the pinned fixed nut did not work, they shattered, heat did not work, soaking did not work. Big f'ng nail ground down did not work,
WHAT DID WORK. tapping/pounding out both nut pins in the rear, had to carefully drill one out, just to take enough off to get it out, then I use the entire fixed nut assembly in the back as a battering ram to pop the cap off with a big f'ing hammer and a piece of cut broomstick. this worked like a charm.
Also this C1 had tapered pins, not straight pins like the 5" Bullet I did a little while back. I got taper pins at ace hardware that were too long and too thick, found the sweet spot to use for my length and thickness ground them down to length, from both ends, spun on a drill against the grinder to take a little meat off, and they worked perfectly.
overall a nice project and a great vise, enjoyed the project, looking for the next one Never did figure out the date, just had a sideways 8 on the slide LOL
a nice little profit on it too, sold for $442 plus shipping.
here are a few pics...
BEFORE
[/URL][/IMG]
AFTER
SLIDESHOW LINK
http://s189.photobucket.com/user/jobydogman/slideshow/Wilton%20C-1%20Vise?sort=3
Couple pics
[/URL][/IMG]
[/URL][/IMG]
Finished it all up,
Overall this vise was in good shape just some rust in the pipe jaw wells, and the underneath, OK a lot of rust..LOL not deep though.. aside from the rust it was overall in pretty nice shape after all. anvil nicked up, slight bending to small swivel handles. left these issues alone,,,,
I had real trouble with the end cap, may not have been original, the cut on it was a little wavy on the barrel, maybe it was fencepost cap, who knows..
TIP...Dowels through the pinned fixed nut did not work, they shattered, heat did not work, soaking did not work. Big f'ng nail ground down did not work,
WHAT DID WORK. tapping/pounding out both nut pins in the rear, had to carefully drill one out, just to take enough off to get it out, then I use the entire fixed nut assembly in the back as a battering ram to pop the cap off with a big f'ing hammer and a piece of cut broomstick. this worked like a charm.
Also this C1 had tapered pins, not straight pins like the 5" Bullet I did a little while back. I got taper pins at ace hardware that were too long and too thick, found the sweet spot to use for my length and thickness ground them down to length, from both ends, spun on a drill against the grinder to take a little meat off, and they worked perfectly.
overall a nice project and a great vise, enjoyed the project, looking for the next one
Never did figure out the date, just had a sideways 8 on the slide LOLa nice little profit on it too, sold for $442 plus shipping.
here are a few pics...
BEFORE
AFTER
SLIDESHOW LINK
http://s189.photobucket.com/user/jobydogman/slideshow/Wilton%20C-1%20Vise?sort=3
Couple pics
Outlawmws
Well-known member
sz0k30
Well-known member
You just need stronger fingers!
You're right. That would be nice, but the problem is they keep getting weaker.
So to make up for my weak fingers and to avoid taking the plunger apart, I came up with 2 possible solutions shown in the picture.
One is just a pry bar with a slot in it to fit under the head for leverage.
The 2nd is a puller.
I tried them & they both work!
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
And there you go! Good solution!
reivertom
Well-known member
I recently posted this other places, but now I see this thread, so maybe one of you guys can help me out:
I recently brought home a Parker #272 swivel jaw vise from an estate auction. It is in pretty good shape and even has a set of copper jaw pads that wrap down around the jaws. The problem I have is that the pin that holds the swivel jaw from turning is stuck hard and it looks like it hasn't been used since the vise was new. I don't mean the swivel base pin like a Prentiss, it is the tapered pin on top near the rear that holds the jaws square until you need it to swivel. These pins have a knob-like top and are round with nothing to hold on to with much force. Do any of you guys know how I could get this thing out so I can take it apart for cleaning? I would really like to be able to use the swivel feature. Also, do you have an idea when they were made?....I have heard the 1920s, but I really can't find anything for sure.Thanks, Tom
I recently brought home a Parker #272 swivel jaw vise from an estate auction. It is in pretty good shape and even has a set of copper jaw pads that wrap down around the jaws. The problem I have is that the pin that holds the swivel jaw from turning is stuck hard and it looks like it hasn't been used since the vise was new. I don't mean the swivel base pin like a Prentiss, it is the tapered pin on top near the rear that holds the jaws square until you need it to swivel. These pins have a knob-like top and are round with nothing to hold on to with much force. Do any of you guys know how I could get this thing out so I can take it apart for cleaning? I would really like to be able to use the swivel feature. Also, do you have an idea when they were made?....I have heard the 1920s, but I really can't find anything for sure.Thanks, Tom
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jakemac
Well-known member
Others have used a theaded rod connector and a pair of bolts to make a "Jack".
Remove the slide and main nut.
Look to see if the pin can be accessed from underneath.
If so, use the jack to put pressure on the pin from below.
Use penetrating oil on the pin from the top. Let it soak in and around the pin.
Occasionally tap the pin with a soft hammer. (rubber, delrin, lead)
Add pressure with the jack from below as needed.
Eventually, with luck, the pin will pop out.
If this doesn't work, you may have to carefully drill it out.
Remove the slide and main nut.
Look to see if the pin can be accessed from underneath.
If so, use the jack to put pressure on the pin from below.
Use penetrating oil on the pin from the top. Let it soak in and around the pin.
Occasionally tap the pin with a soft hammer. (rubber, delrin, lead)
Add pressure with the jack from below as needed.
Eventually, with luck, the pin will pop out.
If this doesn't work, you may have to carefully drill it out.
KMScott
Well-known member
reivertom, I have had luck removing the Dynamic jaw support and resting a 1/2" plate where the square slide rests and then creating a jack set up with a 1/2 bolt with a coupling nut and another bolt and use this setup as a jack, you can get to your pin from underneath. If this is not possible and you already tried heat and penetrating solution then you will have to drill a relief hole through the pin and basically ruin it. After drilling the relief hole I would weld a slide hammer to pull the pin out. I have a 272 and would offer a drawing if you have to make a new one. I am on my way out for 5 days of Elk scouting but can help with the drawing when I get back. PM me
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KMScott
Well-known member
Wow Jake, don't we think alike.
jakemac
Well-known member
scooternut
Well-known member
THE MAKING OF A MASSIVE VISE HANDLE, REED 206.
So I bought a Reed 206 for a decent price. I've redone the vise but was hesitant putting it back together as I never really liked the homemade vise handle that it came with. Though well made by its toolmaker former owner, it lacked "balls" so to speak. The Reeds that I own have, well, huge balls. I like that feature in them so decided that this needed fixing.
The owner told me that his handle was cold rolled, seemed pretty hard to me. The ends were an elaborately lathed creation that had been bent over further abuse. It is 1 in diameter so 1 7/8 balls were in order.
I removed the ends, hacked off his lathed creation, drilled and tapped 3/8 16 holes for a stud, then attached some balls from McMAster Carr. I wanted to go with a bigger hole (McM C sells up to 1/2 hole in the 1 7/8 ball), but was just paranoid about getting it straight and the right sized holes for 3/8 tap had already been started with the previous setup. They were 10 each plus shipping, ouch.
My new to me Grizzly 3 way vise worked amazingly in my Rockwell 665 for drilling, and tapping the holes.
I then filed a flat spot at the threaded end of the ball to equal the diameter of the handle. Im sure there's a faster way, but a good sharp file gave me what I needed here. Eventually I'll Loctite and thread a stud in there. This thing is extra long and HEAVY! I better get some serious rubber grommets.
So I bought a Reed 206 for a decent price. I've redone the vise but was hesitant putting it back together as I never really liked the homemade vise handle that it came with. Though well made by its toolmaker former owner, it lacked "balls" so to speak. The Reeds that I own have, well, huge balls. I like that feature in them so decided that this needed fixing.
The owner told me that his handle was cold rolled, seemed pretty hard to me. The ends were an elaborately lathed creation that had been bent over further abuse. It is 1 in diameter so 1 7/8 balls were in order.
I removed the ends, hacked off his lathed creation, drilled and tapped 3/8 16 holes for a stud, then attached some balls from McMAster Carr. I wanted to go with a bigger hole (McM C sells up to 1/2 hole in the 1 7/8 ball), but was just paranoid about getting it straight and the right sized holes for 3/8 tap had already been started with the previous setup. They were 10 each plus shipping, ouch.
My new to me Grizzly 3 way vise worked amazingly in my Rockwell 665 for drilling, and tapping the holes.
I then filed a flat spot at the threaded end of the ball to equal the diameter of the handle. Im sure there's a faster way, but a good sharp file gave me what I needed here. Eventually I'll Loctite and thread a stud in there. This thing is extra long and HEAVY! I better get some serious rubber grommets.
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GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
As in Kevin's statement above: don't we think alike
I used an old 1 1/8" pry bar to make my handle (24" long) for the Prentiss 98. I bought 3/8" threaded cast iron balls (1.70 each) and smoothed them down. My process was the same as yours and I added a thick rubber washer between the ball and handle for the finger saver.
I used an old 1 1/8" pry bar to make my handle (24" long) for the Prentiss 98. I bought 3/8" threaded cast iron balls (1.70 each) and smoothed them down. My process was the same as yours and I added a thick rubber washer between the ball and handle for the finger saver.
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scooternut
Well-known member
I do need to make another for my Miller Falls 6". I'll have to try to source up some cheaper stock like yours for this one. Those haror freight tire irons come to mind, not sure the diameter on them.
Where did you source the balls so cheap? The McM C items were well polished and seemed high quality items, but with a price for sure.
Where did you source the balls so cheap? The McM C items were well polished and seemed high quality items, but with a price for sure.
reivertom
Well-known member
Thanks Jake and KM,
I thought pushing from underneath might be the best way. I just looked at the main nut under the base and it looks like it is between a 1 1/2 and 1 1/4. Do you guys know off hand what size it is? I assume it is 1 3/8". I thought I had to remove the base, but after reading your description, I see I can access the pin without it. I will definitely try the "mini jack" trick, that sounds promising. I have tried heat and Kroil, but I probably didn't get it near hot enough. I'll try to not get in a hurry and tear something up this time. :^) I will take up the drawing offer if I get "stuck" and have to go nuclear on the beast. Thanks, Tom
I thought pushing from underneath might be the best way. I just looked at the main nut under the base and it looks like it is between a 1 1/2 and 1 1/4. Do you guys know off hand what size it is? I assume it is 1 3/8". I thought I had to remove the base, but after reading your description, I see I can access the pin without it. I will definitely try the "mini jack" trick, that sounds promising. I have tried heat and Kroil, but I probably didn't get it near hot enough. I'll try to not get in a hurry and tear something up this time. :^) I will take up the drawing offer if I get "stuck" and have to go nuclear on the beast. Thanks, Tom
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Finally got that awful light green paint off of my Craftsman 5196...
And discovered…
Apparently it wasn't "reinforced at all points of strain," as advertised.
I noticed that the front oil port with the check ball doesn't accept a normal old-fashioned oil can tip. The tip looks like it fits, but it's too large, and doesn't push in the ball far enough.
The check ball will go in plenty deep. Did they have a specific oil can size in mind?
And what about the oil port on the side of the slide, anyone know if it's supposed to have a check ball, too?
The catalog description says there's an internal spring to prevent handle dropping. I can't find any access into the handle though, and I'm itchin' to see if there's a spring in there. Anybody have any experience with this?
And discovered…
Apparently it wasn't "reinforced at all points of strain," as advertised.
I noticed that the front oil port with the check ball doesn't accept a normal old-fashioned oil can tip. The tip looks like it fits, but it's too large, and doesn't push in the ball far enough.
The check ball will go in plenty deep. Did they have a specific oil can size in mind?
And what about the oil port on the side of the slide, anyone know if it's supposed to have a check ball, too?
The catalog description says there's an internal spring to prevent handle dropping. I can't find any access into the handle though, and I'm itchin' to see if there's a spring in there. Anybody have any experience with this?
Hemi49
Well-known member
I had some "play time" today so I revisited removing the tapered swivel jaw pin from my Prentiss 19......I had purchased a 3/8-16 coupling nut at Tractor Supply anticipating I'd have to push it loose from inside the static jaw base....I had previously used penetrating oil and heat to no avail.....After I removed the main spindle nut I saw the tapped hole for the swivel base was a through hole and axially positioned fairly close to the tapered pin.....I was able to get a punch up through the tapped hole and whack the tapered pin pin loose....The next step was to get the swivel jaw off the base.....Using penetrating oil and tapping the jaw back and forth with a copper hammer I finally got it free.....Surprisingly there was very little corrosion on the machined mating surfaces....To get the swivel jaw so it moves freely on the base required polishing and refitting the two components back together.....When I got done the swivel jaw rotates on the base like it is floating on air......Pictures attached....
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bagged89s10
Well-known member
How loose are the swivel jaws supposed to be? The swivel jaw in my Parker 383-1/2 is fairly tight. Should I lightly polish the mating surfaces so is spins like a swivel base?
bagged89s10
Well-known member
How does the swivel jaw come off on these old reeds? Mine is in the tank right now and hopefully it loosens up ones it's done cooking.
McBrownie
Well-known member
Bagged,
I got my Prentiss 19 moving just as smoothly as Hemi's. I used Prussian Blue to see what surfaces were binding and carefully filed the high spots. Then I used some gear oil and it moves with one finger. Parkers have a better design , in my opinion, in that the swivel jaw has 360 degree of contact where the Prentiss only has half that. Tell you what. I trade you straight up.
OP
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Bagged: my Reed 404.5 arrived in my hands in working condition and it's very similar to all my Prentiss swivel jaw vises. pull the pin and the swivel jaw moves. of course some of the pins and swivel jaws are rusted shut so need a little coaxing.
i removed a pin on my Prentiss #26 coachmaker's vise by taking about a 3 inch 3/8 inch bolt and tapping the pin from below to push the pin out. some members like Get have made a little bolt type vise to use a wrench to push the pins out.
nice vise BTW and it should clean up nicely when you do your magic to it.
i removed a pin on my Prentiss #26 coachmaker's vise by taking about a 3 inch 3/8 inch bolt and tapping the pin from below to push the pin out. some members like Get have made a little bolt type vise to use a wrench to push the pins out.
nice vise BTW and it should clean up nicely when you do your magic to it.
Hemi49
Well-known member
BAGGED
IMO it should move freely without sticking, snagging or hesitation.....the two components are designed with clearance at their mating surfaces so they should be free moving....