The VISES of Garage Journal

[Rileysan]

Riley: you don't have to worry about the Prentiss not going to a good home now. i had emailed him yesterday before i saw your post and was hoping to meet up with him. great guy selling a few of his Dad's tools that unfortunately passed a few years ago. he's a machinist too like his Dad was so my guess is the copper jaws were drilled tapped and screwed on which is a heckuva way to keep them in place. i haven't had a chance to check it out much, but even though it isn't very big it's a nice little vise that won't go far from my garage now. also BEE CAREFUL shopping state to state or nationwide because you might end up with a few hundred vises like a few of us.

cheers

Glad you found the listing. If not for the concrete garage floor project I'm doing for a friend, I would have made the trip to Tacoma. I don't mind the drive - I drive 700+ miles per week to work and back, so a quick trip North is nothing for me

I've now got my sights set on something closer to home - I just hope I was first in line with the email

Here's a teaser ...

Brian

 

[Rileysan]

Yeah I would have to agree with you. IMO the HF model is no where near this stout. I did notice some bondo on it. I was curious what that was all about.

And BTW that's my moms wedding band. She came across this vise at an Estate Sale.

Thanks for your input.

Just to confirm - this is a common practice in the metal casting industry - especially for steel and iron castings from China, India, and Brazil.

One of the selling points of a good casting is being able to ship them "as cast" - that is, machining only those areas that need to fit together and leaving the rest of the casting untouched.

Imperfections in the metal or molding sand can cause all kinds of casting defects that require some type of cleaning - from grinding and air-arcing to using filler and painting.

This is precisely why I am infatuated with older cast vises - they represent craftsmanship that is a dying art!

Sorry for the rant ... I get carried away sometimes!

Brian

 

[va.grouseman]

This is precisely why I am infatuated with older cast vises - they represent craftsmanship that is a dying art!




RILEYSAN

 

[bagged89s10]

Just to confirm - this is a common practice in the metal casting industry - especially for steel and iron castings from China, India, and Brazil.



One of the selling points of a good casting is being able to ship them "as cast" - that is, machining only those areas that need to fit together and leaving the rest of the casting untouched.



Imperfections in the metal or molding sand can cause all kinds of casting defects that require some type of cleaning - from grinding and air-arcing to using filler and painting.



This is precisely why I am infatuated with older cast vises - they represent craftsmanship that is a dying art!



Sorry for the rant ... I get carried away sometimes!



Brian

Same here!

 

[drivesitfar]

Riley: you don't have to convince me and i third the solid post you made today. also wish you well in your effort to buy that interesting stand with the vise on it.

 

[jreb10]

I picked up this Dunlap 5176 a couple days ago at auction for $77. It is a swiveling 4 incher. I had to bid aggressively to get it. I was pretty sure it was a Rock Island in disguise, and I wanted a Rock Island to check out. The date on the slide seems to indicate 1944.

I must say it seems to be in good shape. As far as I have been able to tell, Rock Island produced this same vise as a Rock Island 573, a Craftsman 5162, and the Dunlap 5176.

While I believe Dunlap was Sear's "second tier" line after Craftsman, I find it hard to believe a Rock Island is a second tier vise. So it raises some questions:

Were the Craftsman and Dunlap Rock Island models offered at the same time, or did Sears switch the Craftsman line to Reed, and offer the previous Rock Island-based Craftsman as a Dunlap for a few years? I have not seen any old catalog pages that answer this question.

How long did Dunlap offer rebadged Rock Island vises? I rarely see them and cannot find out much about them. Are they the "rarest" of the Rock Islands?

Does anyone have the full Rock Island/Craftsman/Dunlap triple of a single vise type, such as Rock Island 573, Craftsman 5162, and Dunlap 5176? That would be an interesting set to see side-by-side.

 

[kcrccc05]

Here is a Taiwan versa vise that I believe in my humble opinion is better built then its USA made counter part ,which is painful for me to say .

 

[Fretters]

Good is good. It matters not where it came from. It's like the subject of filler on castings touched on above. I can remember working on my large saw, (made by a large, reputable manufacturer over here, back in their day), and I swear, one of the company owners must have owned a filler manufacturer, judging by how much they'd used. Wouldn't be so bad, but bar one blowhole/air pocket, the casting wasn't even in that bad a shape underneath it all. I cursed that thing when I was having to remove all of that filler, I can tell you.

 

[noisenormajean]

For those interested, I scanned copies of the latest Wilton logo that came with my new 450S and its swivel base template. The template is apparently also applicable to the post-1998 Wilton 400S & 500S as well .....source.

Thumbnail:

The scan has resolution of 5150 x 3532 and came in around 3.75 MB in .jpg format. I have other formats too (.png, .tiff, etc.) if needed.

High-res:
http://i.imgur.com/hlGksTD.jpg

I've uploaded the swivel base template as an attachment in .pdf format. The template came on a "normal" sheet of 8.5" x 11" paper. Upon initial inspection, it may look as if I zoomed into the picture a bit, unintentionally jeopardizing the structural integrity of your bench - I assure you that it is also this way on the original sheet.

As usual, any corrections, considerations, and constructive criticisms are welcomed.

That is all.

 

[topop101]

Here is a Taiwan versa vise that I believe in my humble opinion is better built then its USA made counter part ,which is painful for me to say .

why would you say such a thing?

 

[jrobb316]

Received this big heavy SOB today. I don't know how much it weighs exactly but my truck did squat an inch or 2 when the forklift put it in the back. Been looking for one of these for a long time, happy to get it.

 

[organ]

What does the tag say and what's the point of the cardboard?

 

[jrobb316]

The tag is the Birtman Electric Company tag, they had bought the Rock Island MFG company around 1930 if I remember right. They existed until 1957 when they merged with Whirlpool. Cardboard serves no purpose other than isolating the jaw inserts.

 

[noisenormajean]

It doesn't have to be a big Wilton to have problems Take a look at my 3" 9300. This was made before they started using serrated lock downs and a previous owner had cranked it down hard enough to crack it. I replaced it with a steel one similar to what Kevin did, except it was easier due to the lack of serrations.

View media item 39374

Seems like a fail in design department for the better part of a century. Fortunately, the inner ring on this C3 is in good shape at the moment as the vise was gently used.

Drives: Thank you for your advice and input. I'll be honest, I'll be sad the day I sell the C3. I'll use the lack of pipe jaws as an excuse to hold on to it a bit longer.

KMScott: Thanks again for your input. BTW, the machining on the inner-ring is most impressive. I aspire to one day reach the machining/fabrication level of "Holy Grand Master Sensei Reverend" as well.

 

[sandman54]

Very nice! jrobb

 

[Outlawmws]

Here is a Taiwan versa vise that I believe in my humble opinion is better built then its USA made counter part ,which is painful for me to say .

"Better" in what way? That one has to be locked in place using several locks. the versa vise locks on final tightening of the vise. (which is what MAKES it a versa vise)

Or do you consider it's workmanship and/or fit and finish to be better? Have you compared side by side?

Good stuff can come out of Taiwan. But All too many older Taiwanese castings are on a par with most of what the Chi-com factories crank out.


On the topic of painting one of those Asian rotating head vises scuff and paint don't try to fully strip and paint: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3553473#post3553473

 

[va.grouseman]

Jrobb,---the 577 is one of my favorite vises.---Their the perfect size shop vise to me.---They can handle small, they can handle big.---Weigh around 157 lbs. if memory serves.---Drive has 2 of them I think.---You don't see them pop up like they used to.---They've gotten kind of scarce.---That is a fine specimen of one you have there.---I've seen some of them that have had a very hard life.---Hard to find a real nice one.

You can see what is on the label real clear on page 103, post 2055.

 

[bagged89s10]

Received this big heavy SOB today. I don't know how much it weighs exactly but my truck did squat an inch or 2 when the forklift put it in the back. Been looking for one of these for a long time, happy to get it.

Nice 6" Rock island!

 

[jreb10]

Received this big heavy SOB today. I don't know how much it weighs exactly but my truck did squat an inch or 2 when the forklift put it in the back. Been looking for one of these for a long time, happy to get it.

Great looking vise. I know you have been after a big one for quite a while now. And a Rock Island to boot! That is your favorite brand, as I recall.

 

[jrobb316]

This one is definately used based on the jaw inserts but not abused. The slide is near perfect. When the time has come I'll get a set of KMScott inserts. The tag is in good shape, faded but not damaged. How do you guys go about pulling the tags off and cleaning them? Are they drilled all the way through the casting where you can punch out from the backside? Rock island shares a spot with Parker at the top of my favorite list.

 

[bagged89s10]

This one is definately used based on the jaw inserts but not abused. The slide is near perfect. When the time has come I'll get a set of KMScott inserts. The tag is in good shape, faded but not damaged. How do you guys go about pulling the tags off and cleaning them? Are they drilled all the way through the casting where you can punch out from the backside? Rock island shares a spot with Parker at the top of my favorite list.

My guess is that they are held in with drive rivets or drive screws and not drilled all the way thru. You should be able to just pop them out. Can you unscrew the slide all the way to check If it's drilled all the way through?

 

[kcrccc05]

Hey Outlaw -it was my observation while working with them is that the Taiwan vise has more range of movement then the versa vise as you can see in one of the pics it rotates 360 on base where versa does not ,also the base is larger and more substantial then the versa -not that weight means a lot but Taiwan vise is 5-lbs heavier and yes fit and finish in my humble opinion is better .

 

[vintage nut]

I saw a (presumably chinese) copy of those at busy bee (the Canadian version of grizzly). Only 35 bucks, but not having seen it in person I'm guessing it's probably not that good..... They look like they could be a real handy vise for some of my jobs.

Wilton baby bullet (preferably with power arm) is on my wish list too....

Sent from my C1904 using Tapatalk

 

[drivesitfar]

JRobb: good to know Fastenal still works great for my shipping across the US. my back is still sore. not sure what to tell you about the badge. pretty sure it was riveted and some guys drill them out to keep the badge in tack then tap some threads in the hole and re install with some small screws. if anybody has removed and replaced the badge on a Rock Island vise please post here or on the vise repair 101 thread.

here's one of my other 577's with the badge cleaned up if you need it. i'll take close ups if you or anybody wants some.

just an FYI. pretty sure Rock Island vise company sold to Birtman Electric in the mid 50's and then Birtman quit making or selling vises a couple years or maybe less after buying Rock Island. As i recall and anybody else that has time to google or do a search to give actual facts please do because i'm working off a pretty old memory these days.

VA: you are correct that i still own 2 577's

KC: i guess a guy that owns several of these of both brands can voice his opinion. personally i think some of the old Taiwan vises (vices) were very well made. i'm sure like anything there were the cheap imports too. i would love to see a Chinese made vise with upper end quality because i bet they know how to make one, but the importers won't pay them enough money to do so.

 

[jrobb316]

Birtman Electric was a Chicago company that bought Rock Island Mfg in 1930. That must have become their "rock island division" as it says on the tag. In 1957 whirlpool merged with Birtman and it was just whirlpool. Birtman was making vacuums and other household goods whirlpool wanted. When Birtman stopped making vises is unknown but whirlpool may have just opted to shut that down and stick with kitchen/household appliances.

 

[Rileysan]

Here's a great Wilton C3 in Seattle for $800. This one looks brand new!

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/tld/5302451720.html



Brian

 

[joe.striper]

Possible 10" Columbian located today... waiting for a pic of the side plate.
UPDATE. ...ONLY 8" DAMN!

 

[va.grouseman]

Has Dayid taken his website down or is it just my computer?---I keep getting (THE WEBPAGE CANNOT BE FOUND).

 

[drivesitfar]

All & Riley: The Wilton C3 is probably new because the seller is one of their retailers. He also sells scratch and dent Wilton and Jet brand tools.

JRobb: I'm guessing my thinking was that Rock Island was still in business because they kept the name until mid 50's. Sort of like Wilton buying Columbian and still producing them as Columbian today. If you have a link to some information to post or email me please do so I can do some more reading up on that great vise company. Thanks

 

[Shiftless]

Has Dayid taken his website down or is it just my computer?---I keep getting (THE WEBPAGE CANNOT BE FOUND).

va:
Try this link...
http://scuttle.dayid.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Vise

 

[Rileysan]

All & Riley: The Wilton C3 is probably new because the seller is one of their retailers. He also sells scratch and dent Wilton and Jet brand tools.

So is this a great deal or just an above average deal? Either way, it's out of my price range, but I am genuinely curious.

Brian

 

[bagged89s10]

Found this on the way to pick up my son on the side of the road. Ok, not really on the side of the road. There was a guy with a table set up on the side of the road at a gas station. Parker 823-1/2. Smooth faced jaws look unused. Has the wrench too. $40 for the heaviest 3-1/2" vise I've ever seen.

 

[Mr_P]

Some of you may or may not remember my post from 37102. T'was the cheapest I had paid for a vise.

Here it is for those who don't remember....

TODAY, I found it's twin..... for only $6.37!

 

[jakemac]

Found this on the way to pick up my son on the side of the road. Ok, not really on the side of the road. There was a guy with a table set up on the side of the road at a gas station. Parker 823-1/2. Smooth faced jaws look unused. Has the wrench too. $40 for the heaviest 3-1/2" vise I've ever seen.

Flowers spontaneously spring back to life in mid-winter when you walk by, don't they. Go on, you can admit it. You're among friends.

Great find bagged.

 

[trijeff]

Possible 10" Columbian located today... waiting for a pic of the side plate.
UPDATE. ...ONLY 8" DAMN!

DANG! That would've been awesome. Have we seen ir learned about anything bigger than a 9" made by one of the regular manufacturers? Besides the 695# RR vise, of course

 

[Rileysan]

Found this on the way to pick up my son on the side of the road. Ok, not really on the side of the road. There was a guy with a table set up on the side of the road at a gas station. Parker 823-1/2. Smooth faced jaws look unused. Has the wrench too. $40 for the heaviest 3-1/2" vise I've ever seen.

Some people have the most amazing luck ... you ****!

Brian

 

[Rileysan]

Flowers spontaneously spring back to life in mid-winter when you walk by, don't they. Go on, you can admit it. You're among friends.

Great find bagged.

LMAO!!!

 

[Mr_P]

Lol. I owned that twin for 24 minutes, but I just sold it to a co-worker for $25!

 

[bagged89s10]

Flowers spontaneously spring back to life in mid-winter when you walk by, don't they. Go on, you can admit it. You're among friends.



Great find bagged.

Some people have the most amazing luck ... you ****!



Brian

LMAO!!!

Thanks fellas. I can't wait to weigh this thing when I get home.

 

[drivesitfar]

TJ: Joe is trying to get all the woman members on GJ to PM him for his 10 inch vise. it's a MYTH except for the huge RR vise you might have to eat a hat once Demo or Va find it.

Riley: if i needed a nice vise that C3 about 5 minutes from where i've been taking my daughter to the Dr. for the last few weeks would be mine. i actually like the size of the C2 or 6 inch Wilton better, but both pale to my Reed 4c.

cheers