Electrical Safety Inspection Problem - Car Lift

[Ezzie]

I had the local electrical safety inspector in on Friday to do the final on the building wiring and he spotted the lift. He then looked around it and couldn't find any UL or CSA approval labels on the control box. He then opened up the cover and there were no UL labels on any of the internals such as the contactor, switches, etc. so he requested I disconnect it from the circuit until such time as I get an ESA approval for it.

Needless to say he wouldn't final me and has given me 3 weeks to get it corrected. Now what do I do. Has anyone on here had this type of problem? Here are the details on the lift.

Complete Hydraulic SL1000 OH lift purchased from one of their Canadian dealers, Automotive Equipment Solutions in St. Ann's, Ontario.

Here we have the ESA (Electrical Safety Authority) that issues the wiring permits and does inspections. Apparently their mandate has been recently increased to also be the "cops" to control illegal equipment entering the province and being used before the manufacturer's get safety approvals.

 

[A_Pmech]

Wow... Talk about a police state. That seems a little extreme.

"Sir, we're failing your wiring inspection because that microwave *points* isn't UL approved."

How about installing a receptacle? Here in America, if it plugs into the wall with a cord, it's an appliance or "product" or somesuch wording and not governed by the NEC. That applies equally to toasters as well as machine tool control cabinets.

 

[mrb]

Wow... Talk about a police state. That seems a little extreme.

"Sir, we're failing your wiring inspection because that microwave *points* isn't UL approved."

How about installing a receptacle? Here in America, if it plugs into the wall with a cord, it's an appliance or "product" or somesuch wording and not governed by the NEC. That applies equally to toasters as well as machine tool control cabinets.

Same situation in America. Most jurisdictions require anything plugged in be listed by a NRTL. Heck, in some cities its illegal to sell anything that plugs in that isnt listed....
I would have a little chat with the place you bought the lift from.

 

[Ezzie]

You know, that thought occurred to me (about using a plug/receptacle). Wish I had of done that before the inspector saw it - now it is written up in the inspection report though so I've got to correct it before I can get my building passed.

 

[Ezzie]

I would have a little chat with the place you bought the lift from.

That was my first phone call. The response was to deflect it back to the manufacturer. I am awaiting a response from a tech support person at Complete Hydraulic. The CSR I spoke with indicated it is a "known" issue and that the owner of the company is investigating getting proper electrical approvals for the lifts. Nice - but it doesn't help me right now.

 

[IP2GSR]

If there are no electrical safety "marks" (CE, UL, CSA, DE etc.) then there is not much you can do. Most regions allow you to have it inspected by a qualified professional engineer and if he gives it the stamp of approval then you can submit a report and a bunch more paper work to get it approved on a one time basis. However that cost would exceed buying a new lift.




Dave

 

[nate379]

Disco the wiring, tell inspector lift isn't being installed. Get your approval and then install lift.

 

[mrb]

That was my first phone call. The response was to deflect it back to the manufacturer. I am awaiting a response from a tech support person at Complete Hydraulic. The CSR I spoke with indicated it is a "known" issue and that the owner of the company is investigating getting proper electrical approvals for the lifts. Nice - but it doesn't help me right now.

the bad part, is listings dont apply retroactively. If they were to get cUL, CSA or whatever for their products they cant simply mail you a sticker. The listing only applies to products manufactured after the listing was obtained. They would have to swap the lift out, or have a field evaluation done.

 

[Ezzie]

Thanks for your suggestions guys. I guess for now I'll just have to do a disconnect and finish off the building inspection so I can at least get that part done (inspection period expires in September). I have contacted a local branch of Intertek to see what it would cost to have an Engineer come and do a "one-off" inspection, suggest what changes need to be done to bring the lift into compliance and then do an approval. It's going to cost some $$$ but I see no "legal" way around it. I think it is best to approach this as two seperate approvals, one for the building and the other the lift (which can be done on its own). Once I have the costs together I will approach the manufacturer to see if they will help with sharing the costs.

The other thing I had to correct is the air compressor disconnect. I have had this setup in other shops over the past 30 years and just moved it into the new building. Never had my installations inspected in the old places. I have a fairly large Square D disconnect that I mounted my magnetic starter inside (5 HP single phase) with an integral thermal unit in one leg. The inspector requested that the table for the thermal unit be taped to the inside of the cover as well as the disconnect labelled on the outside. I have made those changes and that is all good now. There are some good things about all of this since it would certainly help someone else should they ever have to service this equipment.

Just something we can all learn from - don't buy any equipment that does not already have some electrical certifications done to it. This is an area that all political jurisdictions are going to be focusing on and some of them (such as Ontario) now have teeth through their ESA organizarion.

I also have reported the importer to the ESA and they will investigate this as an infraction. Could be some fines levied against him as a result. At least this may help future customers.

 

[ddawg16]

Just something we can all learn from - don't buy any equipment that does not already have some electrical certifications done to it. This is an area that all political jurisdictions are going to be focusing on and some of them (such as Ontario) now have teeth through their ESA organizarion.

More important....don't install the other stuff untill you have your buy off....

I know we all have the same problem....we want it in now....

There are a few things more that I'm doing to my garage that are not on the drawings....I'm waiting until final approval before I do them....just in case...

So far the inspector has been very reasonable....He has dinged me on a few things...and rightfully so....

I put in a skylight that was not on the plans...but I asked him about it first...no problem...he just made sure I installed and flashed it correctly....

 

[Aceman]

Have you tried finding UL listed electrical shops in your area?

It's not uncommon, our inspectors are always looking for UL stickers on customer owned equipment.

 

[35mastr]

Disconnect it .

Get your final.

Send him on his way.

Close garage door.

Connect it back up.

Problem solved.

 

[Vicegrip]

peel a sticker off something else?

 

[BillK]

I am disappointed in all of you. The UL/CSA/ whatever stickers are there to protect you, why on earth would you want to buy something without it ?

Dont know about in Canada but with all of the horror stories about insurance claims being denied down here, I sure would not want to have an accident of any type and have the insurance company tell me "tough luck " because of unapproved equipment.

Just my opinion,

 

[mrb]

Have you tried finding UL listed electrical shops in your area?

It's not uncommon, our inspectors are always looking for UL stickers on customer owned equipment.

are you talking about a UL listed panel shop? (UL508) They cant certify something they didnt build. And they couldnt 'build' the panel on the lift since it doesnt contain UL Listed components.

It would need a field evaluation by a NRTL, of which the list (shown below) is slim. Further note not all of these can list under every specification, so some of them may not even be able to list a lift.

As far as taking a sticker off something else and putting it on the lift, the inspector isnt that dumb if he caught the thing in the first place -I sure wouldnt attempt something so fraudulent.

Canadian Standards Association (CSA)
(also known as CSA International)
416-747-4000
178 Rexdale Boulevard
Etobicoke (Toronto), Ontario M9W 1R3
Canada

Communication Certification Laboratory, Inc. (CCL)
801-972-6146
1940 West Alexander Street
Salt Lake City, Utah 84119

Curtis-Straus LLC (CSL)
978-486-8880
527 Great Road
Littleton, Massachusetts 01460
Email: [email protected]

FM Approvals LLC (FM)
(formerly Factory Mutual Research Corporation)
781-762-4300
1151 Boston-Providence Turnpike
P.O. Box 9102
Norwood, Massachusetts 02062

Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc. (ITSNA)
(formerly ETL, Inchcape)
800-345-3851
3933 U.S. Route 11
Cortland, New York 13045

MET Laboratories, Inc. (MET)
800-638-6057
914 West Patapsco Avenue
Baltimore, Maryland 21230

National Technical Systems, Inc. (NTS)
978-263-2933
1146 Massachusetts Avenue
Boxborough, Massachusetts 01719
Email: [email protected]

NSF International (NSF)
800-673-6275
789 Dixboro Road
Ann Arbor, Michigan 48105
Email: [email protected]

SGS U. S. Testing Company, Inc. (SGSUS)
(formerly U.S. Testing/California Division)
973-575-5252
291 Fairfield Avenue
Fairfield, New Jersey 07004
Email: [email protected]

Southwest Research Institute (SWRI)
210-684-5111
6220 Culebra Road
Post Office Drawer 28510
San Antonio, Texas 78228

TUV America, Inc. (TUVAM)
978-739-7000
5 Cherry Hill Drive
Danvers, Massachusetts 01923
Email: [email protected]

TUV Product Services GmbH (TUVPSG)
49-89-5008-4335
Ridlerstrasse 65, D-80339
Munich, Germany

TUV Rheinland of North America, Inc. (TUV)
203-426-0888
12 Commerce Road
Newtown, Connecticut 06470

Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL)
847-272-8800
333 Pfingsten Road
Northbrook, Illinois 60062

Wyle Laboratories, Inc. (WL)
256-837-4411
7800 Highway 20 West
P.O. Box 077777
Huntsville, Alabama 35807
Email: [email protected]

 

[usa#1]

Not sure I fully understand the situation, but if it's just the hydraulic unit, it maybe cheaper and quicker to replace the hydraulic unit with one that has the proper labels and then use the original as a back up or sell it to someone who doesn't need the certification.

 

[malodin]

I was thinking along the same lines as usa#1 replace the things the inspector specifically pointed out(mainly the control box and its components, those are easily gotten from places like mcmastercarr and grainger) then email him or call him and ask him, if i replace those components with ul listed ones will i pass? you might be into it another 200-300 but it might be worth it rather than all the other hassle...

i dont the the electrical inspector has the capability of holding it up for the pump system or anything that is hydraulicly related but only from the motor of the pump back up to the wiring in the building(replace what he tells you and i think he will be happy)

 

[Tech Guy]

Ezzie, I am surprised it does not have at least a UL sticker coming up from the states. My understanding is that if it is sold in Canada to be connected to a panel that it has to be CSA approved. If the inspector saw it connected, then disconnect as you mentioned above and get the building signed off. He should let it slide but may not knowing you will only connect it back up later. He may even come back at a later date just to see if you hooked it back up without a secondary permit. Its probably the same inspector I deal with in that area on a semi regular basis.

I do know an electrician right by you that may be able to help advice wise. As well I know someone that works at CSA you could contact. Let me know and I can PM you the details.

Also if you are wondering who the guy in the white van is that keeps stopping by your shop-its me. I will catch you there at some point.

Todd

 

[Ezzie]

The law has definitely been broken here and all participants in the distribution chain have been notified (the Canadian dealer, Complete Hydraulic in Illinois and Powerrex in S. Korea).

It is clearly against the law in Ontario to import or sell any electrical equipment that does not bear CSA, UL or TUV (etc.) safety approvals. I would expect that many of the US states and other Canadian provinces are already there or soon will be - buyer beware! The ESA here in Ontario, as of January 2009, has the "teeth" to levy some fairly hefty fines against any or all of the companies involved from point of manufacture to retail outlet. If your interested, here is a link to the notification that was sent to all manufacturers in January 2009 by the ESA.

http://www.esasafe.com/product_safety/ontario_manufacturers_electrical_products_obligations.php

My only way out to a "legal" conclusion to this so I can connect my lift is to have an engineer come and inspect it, give me a list of mods needed, do the mods myself and than have him apply an ESA approval label once the work has been completed. One of the test they must do is a hi-pot test to ensure proper grounding. This is actually the same process that has to be done on all custom built commercial or industrial machinery that has electrical controls before it is installed in a plant anywhere in this jurisdiction.

I have contacted my local branch of Intertek Testing and arranged for the inspection to be done. Probably going to cost me about $300 plus mods. I have "suggested" to the importer that they should assist with some of this cost - but I'm not holding my breath on that one!

 

[Ezzie]

Not sure I fully understand the situation, but if it's just the hydraulic unit, it maybe cheaper and quicker to replace the hydraulic unit with one that has the proper labels and then use the original as a back up or sell it to someone who doesn't need the certification.

This is what the dealer I bought the unit from suggested. His suggestion was to replace the power unit with a manually operated one and scrap the electrical controls. He "generously" offered to sell me a manual unit for $630!!

The biggest problem is actually the control module mounted on the side of the lift. It contains the contactor, up & down push buttons, key switch, pilot light and a couple of glass BUS type fuses. All the parts are of S. Korean origin (made by Powerrex). None of the components in this module bear any CSA or UL markings. The power unit is made by Monarch (which I believe is a US company) and has an SPX Stone motor on it that is made in China. The label on the motor does have a CSA reference code as well as bears a CSA marking so should be OK. The only problem with the control module is that the motor does not have any thermal protector - typically in such cases this should be inside the control module but there isn't one, only the glass fuses. The third possible problem is the wire used for all of the AC voltage conductors. It does not appear to be an approved wire and it's origin is uncertain. I can't understand why the manufacturer only supplies some skimpy 14/2 cord for this when the circuit requiremwnt is 220V 30A and has to be wired with 10/2 to the utility box feeding the lift. Wierd??

 

[Stuart in MN]

I was thinking along the same lines as usa#1 replace the things the inspector specifically pointed out(mainly the control box and its components, those are easily gotten from places like mcmastercarr and grainger) then email him or call him and ask him, if i replace those components with ul listed ones will i pass? you might be into it another 200-300 but it might be worth it rather than all the other hassle...

i dont the the electrical inspector has the capability of holding it up for the pump system or anything that is hydraulicly related but only from the motor of the pump back up to the wiring in the building(replace what he tells you and i think he will be happy)

In this case the required UL sticker applies to the entire control panel as an assembly, not to the individual components inside, even if all the components were listed individually. Also, the inspector won't have the authority to sign off on the panel - either an engineer has to get involved like Ezzie is planning, or the panel has to be sent to a shop that has UL certification so they can rebuild it and put their sticker on the door.

 

[mrb]

If you had a new control module assembled with listed components (and wire), would that satisfy the inspector? Next question, is a motor overload even needed? Does the motor have internal overload protection?

 

[Ezzie]

If you had a new control module assembled with listed components (and wire), would that satisfy the inspector? Next question, is a motor overload even needed? Does the motor have internal overload protection?

1st question: No, apparently not. As Stuart in MN above stated, the entire assembly (power unit, control, module - everything that electricity touches) has to be approved as a single entity. The only way to do this, as in the case of anything that is mass produced, is for the manufacturer to pay CSA, UL, etc. to inspect the whole assembly and issue a certification for the machine or product. They then issue a registration number that must be displayed on the product identification labelling. If there are any subsequent engineering changes, etc. the certification has to be updated (at a cost$$). If it is a custom built machine, then you have to have a special "one-off" inpection done by any of these agencies listed in a previous posting. That is what I have to have done on my lift.

2nd question: No, there is no internal overload protection on this motor. The power unit used on this lift looks like it was designed to have an external overload protection such as a thermal unit or something - but this manufacturer only uses a couple of glass BUS type fuses. This is probably one of the mods I will be asked to do.

 

[mrb]

1st question: No, apparently not. As Stuart in MN above stated, the entire assembly (power unit, control, module - everything that electricity touches) has to be approved as a single entity. The only way to do this, as in the case of anything that is mass produced, is for the manufacturer to pay CSA, UL, etc. to inspect the whole assembly and issue a certification for the machine or product. They then issue a registration number that must be displayed on the product identification labelling. If there are any subsequent engineering changes, etc. the certification has to be updated (at a cost$$). If it is a custom built machine, then you have to have a special "one-off" inpection done by any of these agencies listed in a previous posting. That is what I have to have done on my lift.

2nd question: No, there is no internal overload protection on this motor. The power unit used on this lift looks like it was designed to have an external overload protection such as a thermal unit or something - but this manufacturer only uses a couple of glass BUS type fuses. This is probably one of the mods I will be asked to do.

as far as certification, you can have a UL508 panel shop build a control panel for you. If its only $300 to get the on site evaluation and listing (I cant believe thats only costing you $300) then that will be cheaper than having a UL panel shop build you a replacement panel.

I would think you want to rebuild the thing with UL components before the visit and make sure its up to par as far as grounding and everything else so they can sign off on it on the first visit so you arent spending 6 months of back and forth to get the approval.

 

[mrb]

and I dont know about laws in canada, but I would (as required) give the list company an opportunity to make things right, and if they dont sue them to recover your costs.

 

[Ezzie]

If its only $300 to get the on site evaluation and listing (I cant believe thats only costing you $300) then that will be cheaper than having a UL panel shop build you a replacement panel.

That is the estimate only, it could easily end up being higher. ESA/CSA quoted me $157/hr. including travel so using them could be pricey. We use Intertek at my place of business to do "one-offs" on some of our rental equipment that does not have approvals before it is allowed into some plants. I think Intertek is giving me a goodwill gesture here because we are a good customer. I'll update as soon as they look at the lift. I already have replaced the contactor with an Allen Bradley one that does have a CSA sticker on it. Might have to add a thermal cutout for the motor yet and upgrade the cabtire drop cable with something heavier.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

This is what the dealer I bought the unit from suggested. His suggestion was to replace the power unit with a manually operated one and scrap the electrical controls. He "generously" offered to sell me a manual unit for $630!!

The biggest problem is actually the control module mounted on the side of the lift. It contains the contactor, up & down push buttons, key switch, pilot light and a couple of glass BUS type fuses. All the parts are of S. Korean origin (made by Powerrex). None of the components in this module bear any CSA or UL markings. The power unit is made by Monarch (which I believe is a US company) and has an SPX Stone motor on it that is made in China. The label on the motor does have a CSA reference code as well as bears a CSA marking so should be OK. The only problem with the control module is that the motor does not have any thermal protector - typically in such cases this should be inside the control module but there isn't one, only the glass fuses. The third possible problem is the wire used for all of the AC voltage conductors. It does not appear to be an approved wire and it's origin is uncertain. I can't understand why the manufacturer only supplies some skimpy 14/2 cord for this when the circuit requiremwnt is 220V 30A and has to be wired with 10/2 to the utility box feeding the lift. Wierd??

This doesn't seem right- and frankly, has a bit of an odour to it-- - as CSA, UL, etc does not cover everything under the sun. Did the inspector give you your denial in writing and more specific and important, what testing standard, either UL/CSA or whomever does this inspector invoke. Without the standard, ETL/Intertek, UL, or any NRTL can;t help you. However, if the dept is insistent, they may be amenable to an assessment by a P.Eng that the installation meets the governing criteria -- and I would have the building dept first identify what that governing criteria is.

 

[checkthisout]

How much did you save buying this lift VS one from Rotary or some other well-established company?

 

[mrb]

This doesn't seem right- and frankly, has a bit of an odour to it-- - as CSA, UL, etc does not cover everything under the sun. Did the inspector give you your denial in writing and more specific and important, what testing standard, either UL/CSA or whomever does this inspector invoke. Without the standard, ETL/Intertek, UL, or any NRTL can;t help you. However, if the dept is insistent, they may be amenable to an assessment by a P.Eng that the installation meets the governing criteria -- and I would have the building dept first identify what that governing criteria is.

I bet theyre calling the control unit on the thing an "Industrial Control Panel" and would be listed under UL508

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

I bet theyre calling the control unit on the thing an "Industrial Control Panel" and would be listed under UL508

Could be..I wouldn't perform any QC on behalf of the inspector - however you would think he would have identified a CSA standard (inasmuch as CSA/UL are *BI* national)

I have a copy of UL 508 17th edition is someone wants it via email - as its >1.5 meg

 

[Ezzie]

How much did you save buying this lift VS one from Rotary or some other well-established company?

About $4000 less than I was guoted by Rotary for their equivalent lift. I went to them first for a quote because I consider them to be the best on the market. As a hobbiest, I would have loved to have been able to afford a Rotary, but it would be way overkill for the use I would ever get out of it. Also, I don't know if I would say that Rotary is any more well established than Powerrex - I would think that if we had access to the numbers we would find that Powerrex builds many more lifts than Rotary does since they are exported all over the world and "badge" engineered for many different distributors under many different names. Heck, they might even be supplying Rotary with some of the metal work they use. Check out the Powerrex web site at www.powerrex.net - their biggest markets outside of Asia appear to be Australia and Europe. It is a South Korean company and not Chinese - there is a "huge" difference in the quality of products coming out of these two countries at this time.

Anyway, this is not a discussion of the quality of one lift vs. another, US made vs. supposedly "inferior" imports, etc. as this has been hashed over in many other discussion forums. For the money, in my opinion, the Powerrex "Pro-Series" is an extremely well built lift with very heavy duty steel work and construction. I feel very safe under and around this product. This discussion is about the North American distributor and his dealer network that has not made the effort to ensure their products have either ALI certification or that these products have the proper electrical safety approvals before they are sold. The distributor (Complete Hydraulics) as well as their Canadian dealers are actually breaking the law by importing these into the country. I am not familiar with US import laws or your electrical standards but I would expect their are some violations of some of the US state's laws as well going on here. As a consumer, shame on me for not doing enough due diligence about electrical approvals before I selected this product. My mistake and I am willing to pay the cost of ensuring it is safe for both myself and my family members and friends who also use it.

In fact, I think if we were to check into a lot of the 2 & 4 post lift manufacturers/distributors selling products here in North America, we might find that many of them are also non-compliant. The laws are put in place for consumer protection and it is up to all of us to help these agencies find the perps and get them to either comply or get out of the business.

 

[twostory]

I really feel sorry about your situation. This would have been a non issue if the lift would have been installed after the CO.

That is the lesson I am learning from your bad experience.

 

[IDASHO]

Yep, this right here is why you dont toss any "cool" stuff into the garage/shop until you have the final inspection.

Dont give them anything to think about. Keep it simple, an in and out inspection.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Yep, this right here is why you dont toss any "cool" stuff into the garage/shop until you have the final inspection.

Dont give them anything to think about. Keep it simple, an in and out inspection.

I put a lot of nudy pictures all over the walls, and the inspector can't think much of anything during the inspection - well...not with his big head anyways as he reluctantly pole vaults out the door!

 

[mrb]

I really feel sorry about your situation. This would have been a non issue if the lift would have been installed after the CO.

That is the lesson I am learning from your bad experience.

true he probably could have gotten away with it, but I applaud the OP's efforts to have a safe and legal installation.

 

[Terry Kennedy]

In fact, I think if we were to check into a lot of the 2 & 4 post lift manufacturers/distributors selling products here in North America, we might find that many of them are also non-compliant. The laws are put in place for consumer protection and it is up to all of us to help these agencies find the perps and get them to either comply or get out of the business.

I'm really surprised that the manufacturer didn't slap counterfeit UL labels on the parts when they built it.

UL started requiring holographic labels a few years ago on certain product categories if they were manufactured in China. It took all of a couple months for counterfeit holographic labels to appear. I suspect most of the delay was the time it took for the cargo containers to arrive here from China.

As of July 1st, UL requires a new gold holographic label. I wonder how long it will take for fakes to show up...

See UL page here.

Regarding the actual wires, I'd also be surprised if they weren't marked with an E-number. You can use the UL lookup tool here.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Just want to get your facts straight in my head. You installed the lift before your final inspection, you are a hobbyist and this is in your home or extension to your home, the lift was hard wired to the house/garage/shop, and you didn't have a plug/receptacle interface from the house to the lift, and you were using SO cord hard wired to the lift from a junction box or did you use flexible conduit?

I ask this because you are not under the control of OSHA and I believe the local inspector has only authority to the receptacle. So if the above is true, then put a Plug on the Hyd Unit and a Receptacle in the Junction box. Tell him problem rectified, no longer his concern. Don’t be an AH about it, it just swings the responsibility away from the city building department to the home owner. I don’t believe they have a say what is plugged into a receptacle. This would work in my area of the country…

By the way, I contacted your supplier and they confirmed that the equipment is not listed in any approval organization.

Thank you for your interest in our product, but unfortunately our lifts are not certified.

Thank you,

Ms. XXXX XXXXXX
Inside SXXXX

XXXXXHydraulic Service & Sales, XXXX
North American Division
*** Commerce Park Drive
XXXXXX, Indiana (USA) 46131
O - 31X.736.XXXX x1XXX
F - 31X738.XXXX
www.XompleteHydraulic.com
________________________________________

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Question on you Car Lifts

Hello, I am inquiring about your 2 post lift, Model CJ 10,000 OHA. I could not find if these lifts are UL or NTRL Listed?

Thanks, XXXXXX

 

[mike944]

......It is clearly against the law in Ontario to import or sell any electrical equipment that does not bear CSA, UL or TUV (etc.) safety approvals......

Just my opinion, but i think from the discussion above, you're approaching the resolution completely wrong, by attempting to get your own CSA approval. I think your approach will work, but i don't think you should be responsible for fixing somebody else's mistake.

I don't know the Canadian law that's involved here, but from the above quote, i'm inferring that the above-referenced law was in place prior to the sale, and therefore they have illegally sold you this piece of equipment.

Try contacting the agency that enforces that particular law, and ask them what your options are after being sold an illegal piece of equipment.

Depending on their answer, you should demand (getting a laywer involved) that they either replace the equipment with an equal or better piece of equipment bearing the proper markings, or that they take the lift back, and refund your money (including installation, and legal fees) so that you can purchase a different lift.

I would probably send a 'nice' letter first, asking them to rectify, and mention that the next letter will come from an attorney, and you will be requesting legal fees to be reimbursed. That at least gives them the option of fixing it before legal fees start adding up.

Any Canadian lawyers on the forum here?

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Just want to get your facts straight in my head. You installed the lift before your final inspection, you are a hobbyist and this is in your home or extension to your home, the lift was hard wired to the house/garage/shop, and you didn't have a plug/receptacle interface from the house to the lift, and you were using SO cord hard wired to the lift from a junction box or did you use flexible conduit?

I ask this because you are not under the control of OSHA and I believe the local inspector has only authority to the receptacle. So if the above is true, then put a Plug on the Hyd Unit and a Receptacle in the Junction box. Tell him problem rectified, no longer his concern. Don’t be an AH about it, it just swings the responsibility away from the city building department to the home owner. I don’t believe they have a say what is plugged into a receptacle. This would work in my area of the country…

By the way, I contacted your supplier and they confirmed that the equipment is not listed in any approval organization.

Thank you for your interest in our product, but unfortunately our lifts are not certified.

Thank you,

Ms. Amy Bullock
Inside Sales

Complete Hydraulic Service & Sales, Inc.
North American Division
130 Commerce Park Drive
Franklin, Indiana (USA) 46131
O - 317.736.5094 x1555
F - 317.738.0555
www.CompleteHydraulic.com

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From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 4:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Question on you Car Lifts

Hello, I am inquiring about your 2 post lift, Model CJ 10,000 OHA. I could not find if these lifts are UL or NTRL Listed?

Thanks, XXXXXX

I'm surprised the manufacturer would put in writing that these lifts are not certified-- you didn't ask for certification - you asking for "listing" Certification has meaning all together different. But then....

Listing, as in UL listing, means nothing more than testing, labeling and follow-up. To test, there must be a standard - such as for instance UL 943 for GFCIs, etc. No standard, no tests and thus no ability to list. There are no UL or CSA or any standard governing lifts, except for the requirements invoked by OSHA in 29 CFR (in the US and territories), and maybe perhaps the motor controller. I say maybe cuz its not clear if the controller packaged with the lift may be considered an integral oem component not subject to third party testing, etc.

 

[Ezzie]

I don't know the Canadian law that's involved here, but from the above quote, i'm inferring that the above-referenced law was in place prior to the sale, and therefore they have illegally sold you this piece of equipment.

Try contacting the agency that enforces that particular law, and ask them what your options are after being sold an illegal piece of equipment.

Actually Mike944, it is not a "national" (as in Canada the country) law, the responsibility for inspection and inforcement of the national code is a "provincial" mandate - in this case the ESA (Electrical Safety Authority of Ontario). It is a "quasi" state level entity which issues wiring permits, does the inspections, etc. of all residential, commercial & industrial electrical installations province wide. In this jurisdiction, it is against the law to plug in or hardwire any piece of electrical apparatus to the "grid" which does not bear proper electrical certification labelling from CSA, UL, TUV, etc. If the apparatus does not have certification labelling from an approved safety agency, then an "on-site" special inspection is required by an approved testing agency (such as Intertek, ESA, CSA, Nemko, etc.) and once this is completed they affix an inspection label to the apparatus. This applies to anything whether it be an AC adapter used to recharge your iPod, to a piece of equipment being displayed at a trade show through to a multi-million $$ robotic welding system in a car plant.

In 2006 the provincial gov't in Ontario became very concerned about the influx of unapproved equipment being imported into the province as well as cheap imports bearing counterfit labelling arriving from the far east. They then introduced legislation to give the ESA the authority to ensure that all manufacturers distributing and selling product in the province comply with the rules above. The ESA now also has the power to charge, seek judgements and levy fines against repeat violators. So the same entity does both the inspections AND enforcement here - probably a good thing to protect consumers here.

The importer/distributor/manufacturer of the equipment in this case have clearly broken the law and ESA has been made aware of it and who they are. An investigation has been launched. So far only the manufacturer (in S. Korea) has taken the initiative to contact me and offer their assistance. Once I have all of my out-of-pocket expenses known, I will then be in a better position to seek reimbursement from them and take further action if necessary to make a claim. This kind of thing in Ontario is handled through a "Small Claims" civil court action if it cannot be settled to one's satisfaction through negotiation. We're all very civilized and proper here in Canada you know ("eh").