How buying Snap On may actually cheaper than Harbor Freight

[kctyphoon]

10/10

It's been a while since we've had a thread this good.

It only gets funnier when you think about the fact that this is a bunch of 30-50 year old men typing furiously away at each other on the internet.

Poor logic, beaten to death topics, and people that aren't going to change their opinions.

10/10

Lol. Gotta smile at the "I'm more mature than the rest of you, but still not mature enough to leave before i tell eveyone that" posts

 

[crbnfbr]

Pointless argument. I would rather buy used than give the Chinese money to fund their rapid armament. Its the 1930s all over again. Now its the "Nine Dash Line" China is the the new Imperial Japan and I won't. I will NOT SUPPORT PEOPLE THAT WANT TO KILL US!

AND STOP CALLING ME CRAZY!!!!

Hasn't anybody been paying attention to world events? Cuddle up with your harbor freight tools and look how much funded the China's military machine.

I am not doing harm when others are doing harm by buying Harbor Freight ****.

Tell that to the Iron Range worker that lost their job thanks to cheap Chinese steel.
Tell that to the Fender factory worker that had their jobs sent to China
Tell that to the GM worker that had their jobs sent to China
Tell that to the many people in Michigan that lost auto parts manufacturing jobs thanks to China
Tell that infinity to the many American Workers that you put out of a job buying cheap stuff.

Since when has Taiwan(ROC) been funding the Chinese(PRC) military? I mean, we are talking about the HF ratchets which are made in, wait for it..... Taiwan.
Especially, since the ROC lost the Chinese civil war in 1949 and was relegated to the island of Taiwan. I'm sure the ROC is funding the PRC's military.

For all those who don't get it, let me spell it out in big bold letters. Taiwan is not the same as China

 

[Corndoggeh]

With $300 in my pocket I can

A: Buy a socket set from snapon and maybe a few mish mash of extras.
B: Buy 2 impact socket sets, a bending brake, hopper fed sandblaster w/ dryer, welding gloves, welder blah blah blah you get what I mean.

In essence for us weekend warriors, handymen, and bumblefucks, snapon would be a grossly overrated commodity where the tools will barely see 1/20 of the use a mechanic or industrial worker tools will see. All tools follow a logarithmic growth of price VS quality. The difference between a harbor freight quality (say 60% strength and quality of the best quality steel) and snapon quality (lets say around 90%) is a price difference that is 20-30X more expensive.

For me, going to university and working on mine and my families vehicles and house repairs, snapon quality does not justify the price, not even used does. However, I do see the quality and seek to get my hands on USA made items to support domestic production as seen by my large array of USA craftsman items. However, even craftsman prices can be too expensive sometimes for my budgets so I settle for what I can invest in. If I only have $30 to buy a set of impact sockets, I'm going to go to harborfreight. In fact, whenever someone asks me what I want for a birthday or christmas, half the time ill say Harborfreight giftcard because I know I can my projects done without having to invest hundreds in capital or sit for months waiting for a decent deal to pop up.

 

[zendriver]

I bet 95% of you don't know what BRIC is. What happens when Russia, and a bunch of other countries dump the dollar? The dollar is no longer "pegged". Whenever you think you are saving at Harbor Freight, you are bringing us one step close to BRIC and the demise of the dollar!

Isn't that what is used, to build a chimney?

Many of those "BRIC" countries economies are now in the crapper (including Russia and Brazil), compared to an "all right" US. economy.

They will continue to like our dollar, whether they want to or not.

Even China, is not really longer in a position to act that cocky.

 

[derosa]

The savings is really in not needing to run to the store every time you break something or even the need to go to the store. But for us shadetree mechanics this means buying bondhus, wright, SK, Williams and the like. Where the cost isn't significantly more. My last order was for a wright long handle 1/2" socket, 3/8 breaker bar and 7-19mm socket set which arrived for 146. HF would have been 20.00 for the ratchet, 15.00 for the breaker bar, and I believe 15.00 for the sockets. Plus 4 in tax and 8.00 in gas plus 3 hours of my time bringing the total to 137.00. A HF just opened up near me reducing g the time to an hour so more of a savings. If the wright is as durable as suggested vs. the HF stuff then the difference in amount of time needed to warrenty will negate any savings and make the wright cheaper but any such savings is hypothetical at best since the failure rate or times of failure of one versus the other is unknown. At this time this also won't result in downtime as I have additional ratchets, sockets and wrenches to fall back on.

 

[panknuckshovel]

Just buy the used HF for $0.00

Silly

I like your thinking, but why should $0.00 be the end price? If someone is desperate enough to prove HF ratchets are a bad investment, they should PAY me to take them.

Because $0.00 would be price gouging.

 

[mike in tucson]

This thread is a great example of what is wrong with the internet. Like Loscaldazr said in post #62, we have grown men furiously typing retorts. IF I was at a bar sitting with my beer, I could see a similar exchange of different opinions BUT, it would escalate where people could yell, cuss, their faces turn red, and maybe a punch or two thrown. Then, we could see the police come and calm grown men down and then we would go back to drinking our beer. The internet takes some of the fun away. I think I'll go back to my beer.

 

[stikman56]

The smart one is the one who knows what's needed and what's not needed and spends the money as such. You don't need all one tool manufactures to do a good job and have tools that will last. I have Snap-On, Mac, Matco HF, Cornwell , Powerbuilt, and several other brands, it all works, every day, year after year, and I didn't go tool poor buying the stuff. There's no need for a person to have a ratchet that costs $150.00 if he can do the same thing reliably with one that cost 15 bucks and works well. If you feel good cause you can say you bought Snap-On this and snap-On that, well that's just a personal issue you have, it doesn't mean you're smarter or dumber than the next guy. I spent my money where it means the most to me, and it wasn't on tools. I make the same hourly wage, so I get to keep more of it than the guy who has to have Snap-On everything. My ability to find deals and not blow money on stuff that isn't needed has managed to get the Wife and I into a new large home and decent shop with lots of nice features we built on land we bought, and we're renting our old house, which also sits on land, and buying the 2.5 acres next to us. I can do a lot with a little and have always been that way. Tools is just tools, got way better things to concentrate on.
I know my way of thinking isn't everyone's, you gotta do what makes you happy. I do.

 

[Jacobson]

There is an error in your logic. For it to work you are assuming that cheap tools have no resale value which is not usually the case.

I also often see people happily paying $10-12 for a used HF breaker bar even though they still sell them for $10 brand new just down the street.

If this is true, my model breaks down. I assumed there is no used market for dept. store tools.

I think your logic is flawed, based on a logic flaw called assumption bias. Assumption bias is defined like this: You only look at data that supports your assumption, and discard data that doesn't support it.

It's called "Confirmation Bias", not assumption bias. And this does not apply to me, as this is the first SO tool I have ever justified purchasing, actually. I have tons of C-man and HF in my toolbox.

The bidders bought most of the HF wrenches and socket sets at about 3 times what they cost new now. Craftsman sets brought about twice full retail. And, this wasn't an isolated incident, there were probably 50 to 80 sets sold.

The point being, in this recent example, fairly ignorant bidders bought used HF at a 300% of new and Craftsman at 200% of new, or 400% of Christmas season discount.

Well, if that's true, that's just amazing. Have these people never heard of internet? And if this is true, it's better to buy HF and and make 3x your money, if you can find these suckers!

But too late, the SO is already on the way!!

 

[thegroundpounder99]

Nothing brings out the best of members like HF and Snap On in the same title lol. I wish the data was right, but buying tools of whatever brand as a true "investment" probably isn't the best idea.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ngk22r]

What if you buy a used harbor freight tool for $0.00 and then sell it for $0.00, would that not be the true definition of free?

 

[jakemac]

If this is true, my model breaks down. I assumed there is no used market for dept. store tools.

Of course there is a market. Yard Sales, Estate Sales, Flea Markets, eBay, Craigslist, Kijiji, Habitat for Humanity's Restores, and all the Used Tool Stores spread out all across the country. At any one of these you can find new and used "dept. store tools" on display for sale right alongside the truck brands.

It's the very same market that you alluded to in your original post when you proposed selling your SnapOn tools to recover costs. That same market also generates profits from lesser brands and no-name tools as well.

 

[MiamiPHiL]

The savings is really in not needing to run to the store every time you break something or even the need to go to the store. But for us shadetree mechanics this means buying bondhus, wright, SK, Williams and the like. Where the cost isn't significantly more. My last order was for a wright long handle 1/2" socket, 3/8 breaker bar and 7-19mm socket set which arrived for 146. HF would have been 20.00 for the ratchet, 15.00 for the breaker bar, and I believe 15.00 for the sockets. Plus 4 in tax and 8.00 in gas plus 3 hours of my time bringing the total to 137.00. A HF just opened up near me reducing g the time to an hour so more of a savings. If the wright is as durable as suggested vs. the HF stuff then the difference in amount of time needed to warrenty will negate any savings and make the wright cheaper but any such savings is hypothetical at best since the failure rate or times of failure of one versus the other is unknown. At this time this also won't result in downtime as I have additional ratchets, sockets and wrenches to fall back on.

"Bingo" was his name-o!

 

[T45]

The cost of 'buying' tools needs to be separated from the cost of 'ownership'

For people who are supposedly savvy about cars, you should understand the distinction

The cost of owning any asset (working life>1year), needs to account not just for purchase price, but the depreciation of the asset and its long-term fungible value.

The audience here on GJ is pretty broad, and some folks are tool polishers and maybe only will use 1/10th the life of a tool; others will wear it into the ground and/or pass the tools off as family heirlooms.

Someplace in the large spectrum, there are people with $ investments in the sevral to 10's of thousands of dollars. Total cost of owners hip includes maintenance cost, warranty repairs, shopping cost, storage requirements,hg. and ultimately disposal or resale value at the end of your working project duration.

Inmany cases snap on will have a very respectable 'cost of ownership', for precisely the reason the OP states--which is that a small amount of use does not diminish the market's perception of the tool's value--which allows for very modest cost of total ownership (low maintenance and good warranty etc) because of the ability to recoup initial investment.

The main caveats being stated elsewhere, that resale is not always free (fees and shipping) and depreciation is not always zero (because of product obsolescence and versionioning), not to mention the vast gap between retail and street prices for gear (varies, but generally is a good haircut off truck prices). Lastly, some items are simply wear items and are not infinite life investments (eg, snap on replacement bits are more than many new bit-sockets by lesser brands).

If you doubt the observation that snap on tools have a more liquid market than lesser brands, you should probably have your head examined.

And if you need to simply try an item to see if it fits your needs, you cannot compare purchasing used snap on to say buying some other type of tools that is made so poorly nobody is willing to trust it, and so the market for it is very shallow and low-value for the next user.

 

[kctyphoon]

The only truthful and relevant explanation for ANYONE spending the absurd amount of money on snap on is "I don't need it, I just want it".. I don't know why so many of you are so allergic to that statement, and waste your time trying to rationalize to everyone why you NEED to spend money on all things snap on, esp when much of their items it's just rebranded merchandise with a markup for the tool truck..

It's your money, spend it however you like. All people are free to make good/poor choices with their money - just come out and own it already it.. " cause I like them and that's what I wanted ". - nobody can argue with that..

I just received the 2 crescent roto head ratchets for $25 I posted in the hot deals forum. I will likely be dead while they'll still be in my box at home.. I have no reason to spend more money on items that will see little use just so I can say "mine is better than yours"

 

[Hiball]

Who is Winning? What's the score?

 

[kctyphoon]

Who is Winning? What's the score?

You're the loser in here, but you knew that before you signed on..

Relax - I'm jk.. You walked right into that..

 

[WhiskeyRanger]

The savings is really in not needing to run to the store every time you break something or even the need to go to the store. But for us shadetree mechanics this means buying bondhus, wright, SK, Williams and the like. Where the cost isn't significantly more. My last order was for a wright long handle 1/2" socket, 3/8 breaker bar and 7-19mm socket set which arrived for 146. HF would have been 20.00 for the ratchet, 15.00 for the breaker bar, and I believe 15.00 for the sockets. Plus 4 in tax and 8.00 in gas plus 3 hours of my time bringing the total to 137.00. A HF just opened up near me reducing g the time to an hour so more of a savings. If the wright is as durable as suggested vs. the HF stuff then the difference in amount of time needed to warrenty will negate any savings and make the wright cheaper but any such savings is hypothetical at best since the failure rate or times of failure of one versus the other is unknown. At this time this also won't result in downtime as I have additional ratchets, sockets and wrenches to fall back on.

Interesting comparison, but why wouldn't you order the HF tools online and save 3 hours of your valuable time?

 

[Hiball]

You're the loser in here, but you knew that before you signed on..

Relax - I'm jk.. You walked right into that..

No doubt.... I can't even get off the bench, Your like the MVP of the Anti-Snap on League.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Buy what you want, everyone on here will judge you regardless of what you buy.

 

[PJNJ]

Buy what you want, everyone on here will judge you regardless of what you buy.

Where were you 102 posts ago. Probably the best statement of the thread.

 

[justanengineer]

Many won't but I agree with the OP's basic logic. My father earned roughly half his income over 40 years flipping construction and industrial equipment, tools and machinery being a portion of that. Bc I grew up in it I've also done some rather serious dabbling (earned $25k+ several years) on/off as well.

JMO but cheap tools really dont have much resale value aside from the crazies on craigs and eBay. Sure, list it long enough or get lucky with one item and you can sell anything for at or more than retail. Most of the time however the real-world, local-pickup only, "gotta sell multiple/bulk cheapies in the next 1-2 weeks" price is very little. I regularly see the 44" HF roller so many here rave about sell for <$25 at auction, I usually feel good when I can flip them for $100 bc its usually ~$75. Individual hand tools like ratchets and wrenches I dont bother with, I toss them in a bucket and the wife either lists the bucket or sends it back to auction.

Not to sound like a SO fanboy or snob (bc I actually have very few and prefer other industrial brands), but SO does have excellent resale value simply bc of the fanbase. Most of what I come across is 1960s or newer so not the high-dollar collectible variety, but clean, unmarked user tools still sell for most of the new equivalent's retail, even individually sold small hand tools. When you get into the true vintage SO OTOH you'll find many items sell for more than they cost new, so yes they can really be thought of as an investment. My father has done this with some of his personal tools that were bought new in the mid-50s, and being a true hoarder he wouldn't let go unless they did.

 

[pi_guy]

Thinking about the question brought me to the thought that.
If I had bought all harbor freight instead of Snap On and other quality tools I would have every tool in the HF catalog and lots of extra money.
But my ability to do certain tasks would be severely limited and some I could not do at all.
I do have to say when I need to make special modified sockets I look at harbor freight to start, but often they do have the right size.
I had to turn down a one inch drive 1 inch socket to fit a camber gauge and you could feel to the depth that the heat treating went.
This should make the HF fan boys happy I was upset with Snap on because of the quality of the product lead to much difficulty in machining to size something that never happens to HF sockets.

 

[derosa]

Interesting comparison, but why wouldn't you order the HF tools online and save 3 hours of your valuable time?

Valid question, need to check the fit and finish of the tools received which is less consistent with HF. Shipping would be possible swinging the scale to HF but I'd still pay taxes and the HF socket set would be less complete.
Not to mention justification does require some degree of loose logic.

 

[WhiskeyRanger]

Many won't but I agree with the OP's basic logic. My father earned roughly half his income over 40 years flipping construction and industrial equipment, tools and machinery being a portion of that. Bc I grew up in it I've also done some rather serious dabbling (earned $25k+ several years) on/off as well.

JMO but cheap tools really dont have much resale value aside from the crazies on craigs and eBay. Sure, list it long enough or get lucky with one item and you can sell anything for at or more than retail. Most of the time however the real-world, local-pickup only, "gotta sell multiple/bulk cheapies in the next 1-2 weeks" price is very little. I regularly see the 44" HF roller so many here rave about sell for <$25 at auction, I usually feel good when I can flip them for $100 bc its usually ~$75. Individual hand tools like ratchets and wrenches I dont bother with, I toss them in a bucket and the wife either lists the bucket or sends it back to auction.

Not to sound like a SO fanboy or snob (bc I actually have very few and prefer other industrial brands), but SO does have excellent resale value simply bc of the fanbase. Most of what I come across is 1960s or newer so not the high-dollar collectible variety, but clean, unmarked user tools still sell for most of the new equivalent's retail, even individually sold small hand tools. When you get into the true vintage SO OTOH you'll find many items sell for more than they cost new, so yes they can really be thought of as an investment. My father has done this with some of his personal tools that were bought new in the mid-50s, and being a true hoarder he wouldn't let go unless they did.

If you're buying and selling tools as a source of income, you value them a lot differently. You are trying to maximize your income, so you focus on higher profit items since your time has value. It's the same for someone trying to sell off their stuff. I'm never going to get around to selling all my tools when I'm too old to use them. If I do, I'll dump them all cheap since it isn't worth the time to sell things individually.

 

[L.Cheapo]

Interesting comparison, but why wouldn't you order the HF tools online and save 3 hours of your valuable time?

Paying shipping on HF tools is like financing a 15 year old used car.

 

[Gmonkee]

I paid about 120 dollars for two flex ratchet wrenches and ran them ragged a few years. Then I paid a lot more for the full set and gave the old ones to another guy.

Now I still have the solid set and the other two generated enough goodwill he still tosses me cool old tools he doesn't want as he proudly uses the worn ratchet wrenches.

I got my money out of them twice now. And another still uses them.

Not all work out well but long term use getting me paid is enough.
Some Asain tools purchased at po'boy prices are still making me money a decade later and none ever failed. Pure profit every time they get used

 

[shortykorte]

Drats! Now I have to stop buying gas, sell the Harley, stop eating produce and divorce my wife since none of them are made (100%) in America.

 

[kctyphoon]

Drats! Now I have to stop buying gas, sell the Harley, stop eating produce and divorce my wife since none of them are made (100%) in America.

I don't think Parabellum will be back in here spewing any of that since he kinda got his **** handed to him for being a hypocrite.. I'd say you're good, no need for divorce just yet..

I wouldn't go investing in used snap on ratchets planning for the end of the world. Something tells me water might be better. I could be wrong though..

 

[Oldgloryfirearms]

Drats! Now I have to stop buying gas, sell the Harley, stop eating produce and divorce my wife since none of them are made (100%) in America.

i am just curious as to what 100% US made computer or cell phone he was typing his response on

 

[dsimatt]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the last thing on my mind when buying a tool, is how much I can sell it for.
I buy mine to use & abuse.

Exactly, I don't sit there polishing and worshiping my tools I bought, they are used and beaten up if that's what gets the job done.

I don't buy to many tools but when I do buy my snap on stuff its for deals that you can't pass up and honestly I probably could resell them with little to no loss.

 

[rick carpenter]

i am just curious as to what 100% US made computer or cell phone he was typing his response on

I heard the plant that makes imojis/smilies/emoticons is in China.

 

[kctyphoon]

Rainbows are Chinese too.. Bastards..

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Drats! Now I have to stop buying gas, sell the Harley, stop eating produce and divorce my wife since none of them are made (100%) in America.

Interested in second-hand wife.

 

[kctyphoon]

Interested in second-hand wife.

Should be free. No resale value according the OP's math..

 

[Gmonkee]

I'd have to offer a hefty payment for anyone to take my ex wife.

It was easier to just leave her to her luck.

 

[Adam.C]

I bought a set of Snap On yellow hard handle screwdrivers in 1993 or so. They have been fantastic, only used for automotive, kept clean and still in good shape. The handles aren't all beat up. They are undoubtedly worth over twice what I paid for them. I could easily sell them and buy a new set of instincts.

 

[rsanter]

Buy snap on for $100
Keep,it and use it for a bunch of years.
When you sell it many years later because you are too damn old to use it anymore...
The new price will then be $300 for a similar ratchet.
You sell for 1/2 price of new, or $150
You just made $50 so it's like,you got paid $50 to have bought and used it

Bob

 

[kctyphoon]

Other people can start posting what some of the American made Craftsman Professional stuff is selling for. Or all their collectible ratchets too..

Everyone can find SOMETHING that doesn't seem to fit into the normal rules of things. That doesn't prove the "rule" wrong simply because there are a few exceptions though. What's tough is knowing what those things might be when they are new and hold no extra value. It's quite easy to invent simple math to help prove your point - still doesn't mean it's correct..

 

[AmishFury]

i sold my F80 for $2 more than i paid for it... so you could say it's the cheapest ratchet i ever bought