we all knew it eventually had to happen to Craftsman...

[T45]

HF seems to be doing fine on its own, they have their own brand IMHO

CMAN needs product managers & marketers.

If NAPA can do decent stuff with Carlyle, cman can figure it out.

The main issue is that the relabels all make money by bundling with service (truck, napa)

JUST relabeling at the cheap end is fatal

unless you spec low end quality (husky/kobalt/HF)...just above minimal

husky pro and cman pro and williams kobalt were decent stuff if you picke the right SKU

but those deals seem gone today for the most part. they bit the dust in 2009/2010 or so

 

[Moose97]

I think the best anyone can hope for at this point with Craftsman is a Taiwanese made tool with higher standards than what comes out of China. Probably be able to buy them at multiple retailers around the country. Made in the USA is likely never to come back. The younger generations (Lord, how old do I sound?) aren't necessarily interested in quality as much as price. I think they believe that 5 years or so is all you need out of a product. By that time technology has surpassed its usefulness.

 

[onemanarmy]

I like Kobalt. Not understanding the hate. The ratchets work ok for backyard work, and I have broken a few and got new ones for free.

 

[Roddyo]

Why in the Hell do we need craftsman? We got Wright and JH Williams already. That's USA wrenches and sockets. I'm going Sunex and GP for impacts anyway. There's Gearwrench who's doing a pretty good job for what they are.

Piss on Craftsman.

 

[jd_1138]

I was proud to buy Craftsman tools in the late 90's after I had moved out of my parents' house and on my own. I no longer had my dad's tool box to raid. So I went to the local Sears and bought a few sets to piece together pretty much a complete SAE/metric set, and I bought a 4 drawer Craftsman portable box to keep it all in. Had no room to lay them out in order; they were just jammed in.

Hopefully they can return CM back to its glory days.

 

[M6erfan]

Why in the Hell do we need craftsman? We got Wright and JH Williams already. That's USA wrenches and sockets. I'm going Sunex and GP for impacts anyway. There's Gearwrench who's doing a pretty good job for what they are.

Piss on Craftsman.

I'll just run down to the local Wright/Willams store...Oh wait...

 

[Art From De Leon]

I honestly can't see anyone buying the brand unless someone like Northern Tool or Tractor Supply wants to put a more recognizable name to its house brand tools.

Interesting theory. Or even Harbor Freight.

They could then wrap "PittsBurgh Forge", "Chicago Electric", and Atlanta Pnuematic all under the Craftsman name, with no change in quality, but a lot more feel good name association.

 

[Clemson13]

What do they use instead? Just curious since my sons could care less what kind of wrench they use, as long as it gets the job done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"What do they use instead" "as long as it gets the job done"<<<<< That is the problem for Craftsman.

I was raised on Craftsman. I like the brand from a sentimental standpoint as it is what my father has always used and he was my teacher. I got all of his 3rds sets and some of his seconds. All old USA craftsman with some channel locks thrown in. Got an older single stage Cman (Ear Deafening) compressor.

I am a 25yr old with a cushy job (engineering mostly interesting desk work) who enjoys tinkering in his free time. I shop around for the best bargains. It has saved me a bunch and I have some pretty nice tools for it.

-Got a IR 2135timax lightly used for less than a HF one
-Got on the sunex impact socket deal the other year 1/2 metric/sae & master 3/8 for something stupid low like ~175 after the rebates (father only gave me 1/3 of the socket set I needed)
-Jumped on the 3/8 & 1/4 master gearwrench socket set ( has a thread for the deal ) for 100 to my door once the 15% discount I used was done. (father only gave me 2/3 of the socket set I needed) (Turns out, those gear wrench sockets are WAY better than old craftsman. They have gotten rusted bolts out that the Cman already rounded off)
-Got the SAE set of Sunex wratcheting wrenches in a giveaway (Thank you Sunex!) These are also better than my old Cman stuff.
- Shopped ratchets on Ebay, ended up with Snap on in 1/2 and 3/8 for less than 200

And so on .....

Why would I care to look at craftsman? I am paying only a couple % more than their current low quality price to have drastically higher quality tools. Like everything else in my life, I look at the cost/value of every item I acquire. Cman never seems to make the list.

TLDR: Craftsman is nice in sentiment. There value is nothing and have already died in my eyes.

 

[Clemson13]

I'll just run down to the local Wright/Willams store...Oh wait...

I do have a local store that sells Armstrong and Wright, I just cant afford them

 

[shockwave]

For example the craftsman line it would be best for apex to purchase and broaden out on there gearwrench line which a lot of it is not saying it can't go back to Usa make but a better backing for now until a decent restructuring

Snap on and sk or even wright can but there warranty claims alone need stability to handle them look at sk a few years ago

And retail sales in general are down due to Internet shoppers vs in store and price matching Amazon is common now for a lot of retail chains and money is lost there alone

Now Walmart could buy them and make them money again but not really bring back to Usa just there name to there slice on the pie

 

[PFSard]

Here's a link that may shed some light on why Sears is looking to sell off valuable brands :

Fitch: No Incremental Liquidity from Sears' Potential New $750MM Term Loan
http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...remental-Liquidity-Sears-Potential-750MM-Term

I'm certainly no expert on why Sears/KMart has been failing. The business schools probably have studied this. But, my speculations... Right now, they are having trouble servicing their debt. The low ratings mean higher interest expenses. They need to find cash to stay afloat. They probably have not been able to find any interest from others for their other assets.

-----------------------

On another note, Sears is a retailer. Their branded products are outsourced. Manufactured by someone else. To get back to made in U.S.A., it was suggested earlier in this thread that robots would be needed. Whoever is contracted to manufacture Craftsman tools would therefore be the ones to do this.

 

[woody 73]

Some more reading from three years ago in case you guys are interested:

http://www.triplepundit.com/2013/07/sears-worst-retailer-company-america/

 

[dreamingmuscle]

Atwoods a local farm store around here carries Craftsman.

Someone is going to pick up the Craftsman name at least. It's too valuable/recognizable to let die. Kenmore not so much. I can't remember the last time I've heard some one brag they bought Kenmore appliances. Shoot I bet a large percentage of people don't even know what brand their appliances are.

Glen

 

[BK13]

I'll just run down to the local Wright/Willams store...Oh wait...

That's probably the reason I haven't managed to pick up more Wright stuff. Because, apparently, I'm too lazy to buy off the Internet, but have no problem crossing the Columbia to go into Vancouver to buy a new ratchet...

 

[Davefr]

I was raised on Craftsman. I like the brand from a sentimental standpoint as it is what my father has always used and he was my teacher.

^^^^I think that say's it all.

The passion/appeal of the brand is dying at a rapid rate. So who's going to even care about the brand name in the future unless it represents some compelling value proposition to the modern consumer.

 

[airshow]

Here's a link that may shed some light on why Sears is looking to sell off valuable brands :

Fitch: No Incremental Liquidity from Sears' Potential New $750MM Term Loan
http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...remental-Liquidity-Sears-Potential-750MM-Term

I'll take that it makes a lot of sense, but considering I have no idea what the hell any of that financial stuff meant, I have no clue.

Dumbbells like me will just have to take it at face value.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

I can't remember the last time I've heard some one brag they bought Kenmore appliances. Shoot I bet a large percentage of people don't even know what brand their appliances are.

Glen

I have 2 pretty recent ones, a toaster oven that looks like it could fly through space with an OLED computer display that lights the whole kitchen.
It has 3 toast settings, white, almost toasted, and a bit overdone.
Not bad enough, so it will randomly flip to broil, bake or warm mode sometimes. Oddly none of those modes can be set for a specific temperature.

And a gas water heater that puts itself out a few times a day.

No value left in that brand for me.

 

[James-W]

What do they use instead? Just curious since my sons could care less what kind of wrench they use, as long as it gets the job done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, first off, let me say that obviously I don't know all the young people in town. But my two older grandchildren would have some of their friends over from time to time (I have the big flat screen television with and PS-4 and X-Box) to play video games and I got to talking to them.

Some don't have any tools, others have tools from Harbor Freight or other inexpensive tools, and a handful have expensive tools like Snap-On. Not many have Snap-On, mainly the ones whose parents are "well to do" have the more expensive tools. But surprisingly to me at least, many of the younger guys don't own any tools at all. Apparently the interest in tools for younger people these days is at a very low point.

As an added note, it seems from talking to these kids, their parents have very few tools. The tools they have are things like a hammer, screwdrivers, pliers, maybe a cordless drill and some really cheap drill bits, stuff like that. They don't really have tools to work on a car or things like that. It's mostly just common tools for doing minor stuff around the house.

When they come to my house and see my garage/shop, they do not know what probably three quarters of the tools even are. In a way it is very sad, but I guess that is the reality of the world we live in today.

 

[Cato]

They are still swinging. You have to give them a little credit.

Yes, Sears is fighting to the last man. Once Sears and Craftsman goes, what's left? Ratty costume jewelry and opened packs of underwear?

There is just no market for department stores these days. Walmart only survives because there are folks who don't have credit cards and/or internet access.

I just hope Craftsman is bought by an American company and not buy ChinHua Industrial Concern, Shanghai.

 

[zendriver]

I hope to see Craftsman back as a USA product but I highly doubt it. I was in Ace the other day and mentioned to a guy next to me that it is too bad that craftsman is mostly china now. His response was basically, " doesn't matter where it is made, if it breaks, just come back and get a new one". We are in a minority in this country of people who want to see USA on their tools or other products. Its a shame.

Well, start up a factory, making and selling quality USA made hand tools and make a profit, doing so.

It should be pretty easy.

The Ace guy is probably not too concerned, because he knows the rate of tool returns, between the COO is probably about the same.

Judging by the amount of huge billboards I see, that say "now hiring" for factories, maybe the real shame is American don't want to make Cman tools

 

[zendriver]

Here's a link that may shed some light on why Sears is looking to sell off valuable brands :

Fitch: No Incremental Liquidity from Sears' Potential New $750MM Term Loan
http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...remental-Liquidity-Sears-Potential-750MM-Term

I'm certainly no expert on why Sears/KMart has been failing. The business schools probably have studied this. But, my speculations... Right now, they are having trouble servicing their debt. The low ratings mean higher interest expenses. They need to find cash to stay afloat. They probably have not been able to find any interest from others for their other assets.

-----------------------

On another note, Sears is a retailer. Their branded products are outsourced. Manufactured by someone else. To get back to made in U.S.A., it was suggested earlier in this thread that robots would be needed. Whoever is contracted to manufacture Craftsman tools would therefore be the ones to do this.

Just to look a the news.

Relative newcomers like Amazon profit margins are razor thin, so they flourish on sheer volume. Order something inexpensively priced that shows up on your doorstep in a couple of days. Easy returns if not happy.

The brick-and-mortar dinosaurs - all of them, are having a very hard time keeping up.

We know what happens to dinosaurs that can't keep up.

 

[Roddyo]

I don't know what craftsman can do that's not already being done. If they come back to America and try to make a profit you probably looking at SK, Wright or JH Williams pricing. I'm not going to buy tools from a floundering tool company for the same price as a well run one.

Taiwan.....who are they going to out compete there? Personally I'd rather Harbor Freight up there game in some areas as screw with craftsman. If Gearwrench would get back in Taiwan there wouldn't be a need for craftsman.

Craftsman had one of the most loyal followings in the world and pissed it away. End of story IMO.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Where there is a plan and a glimmer of hope; there is a chance.

Get ahold of that Country Western Singer who sings "I'm a Member or a Country Club".
Reword the song to: "I'm a Member of a Craftsman Club".

Come up with some real estate to open a "Craftsman Club" near you (Sears should have no problem).

Come up with some "Craftsman Club" beer mugs, party hats, branded beer, toilet paper, and gag bags filled with tools.

Promote the new theme song and club on local radio and tv stations.

Have free "Craftsman Club" tee shirts for the wet tee shirt contestants.

Enjoy

 

[geartow]

I see the craftsman name being purchased for cheap ,by someone already in the tool field . Just to KILL the name.

 

[sberry]

They may do that. But as I mentioned, other stores have outgrown them, they match Tractor supply in size. I do or can spend a lot on materials and Sears just doesn't have the appeal, there isn't anything I can get there cant be bought off the shelf elsewhere at a better price, just no incentive to go out of the way to a store with 10% the stock of a HD or Lowes/Menards or all 3, get a part for anything in a house at competitive prices under 1 roof.
Even laundry and cleaning products, toilet, what cant be had there could be scored at a Wally 24/7, no reason to stop at a Sears store if it was between them let alone make an out of the way stop.

 

[hawaiiysr]

sad but true craftsman has been in a downward spiral. wish they would put more effort in the usa tools again but i dont see that happening

 

[bpj71]

I am 37, 95% of my stuff is Craftsman, purchased my first set when I was 16, and I can honestly say I have not a single issue with any Craftsman product I have ever owned. I am your average DIYer and not a full time mechanic so the brand has served me very well. I try and take care of my tools because I have worked very hard to purchase them. I see the value in how they have helped me over the years.

There are very many different views on here and we all know the topic of Sears has been covered numerous times.

But the struggle of Sears and Craftsman reminds me of the stories you see on the news when a local church closes due to low attendance and lack of funds. The last day the church is open the attendance is through the roof and everyone shares the great stories on their fond memories of the church. Everyone is shocked that it had to close and now is gone forever, but none of those people stepped foot in the church for last ** many of years.

I don't want Sears to fail and my view is certainly biased because I work for Sears. I love my job and what I do. But I also know that the environment in which we operate in today is beyond challenging and it is a struggle to maintain any level of brand loyalty/equity. The public demands cheaper, quicker, and usually could care less where it comes from. Some of you may disagree, but I challenge you to look at the empire that Wal-Mart has become. You don't nearly exceed $500 billion in sales and have an adverse effect on every level of the retail world.

My point is simple, I don't want Sears to fail and I will continue to do my job everyday to the best of my ability until I am told otherwise. I don't want to be one of those people going to the closed church on the last day to show my support. There are still a lot of good people at Sears that do care about customers and the company they work for. One of my employees has been with Sears over 50 years. She has walked through the same door for 50 years. She is still very good at her job, passionate, and i would choose her over any 20 year old any day of the week.

I have been part of the retail environment for almost 15 years, I also was part of Circuit City before it went under. Retail environment is a constant changing environment and very hard to adapt and capitalize when it changes so quickly. I hope Sears figures out how to survive.

 

[four.cycle]

I don't know what craftsman can do that's not already being done. If they come back to America and try to make a profit you probably looking at SK, Wright or JH Williams pricing. I'm not going to buy tools from a floundering tool company for the same price as a well run one.

Taiwan.....who are they going to out compete there? Personally I'd rather Harbor Freight up there game in some areas as screw with craftsman. If Gearwrench would get back in Taiwan there wouldn't be a need for craftsman.

Craftsman had one of the most loyal followings in the world and pissed it away. End of story IMO.

^ makes more sense than any other comment so far in this thread.

Packard built a heck of a good car. American Motors came up with some innovative engineering. So did Studebaker.
Tool companies come and go.
Sears and Craftsman are just a game for Lampert. He's run the thing into the ground so far that Sears itself isn't really even a player anymore.
Stop for a minute and think about what's happened with Sears Kenmore. Used to be one of the top brands. Lowes has left them in the dust.
Why on earth would a Lowes or Ace or HomeDepot need a failing brand?
What potential advantage does that give them on their bottom line?

No fewer than five players tried to revive the Studebaker Avanti. All of them went belly-up.
I just don't see that happening with Craftsman hand tools. Too great an investment for what would be questionable return, and it wouldn't fly unless they assumed the liability of all those "lifetime warranties". Smart investors don't assume those kinds of risks.

 

[Davefr]

Sears and Craftsman are just a game for Lampert. He's run the thing into the ground so far that Sears itself isn't really even a player anymore.

The root cause of Sear's death spiral started way before Eddie entered the scene. Eddie is just the "ambulance chaser".

This describes it quite well:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120421/ISSUE01/304219970/sears-where-america-shopped

 

[warweapon762]

People aren't going to pay premium brand name prices for Chinese made tools when you can go to Harbor Freight and buy something of the same quality at 1/4 of the price.

Honestly I am glad to see this idiotic cash grab crash and burn.

 

[Zeke]

No love here for Kenmore and DieHard. They're both just rebrands that you can buy anywhere and probably for less. Oh I know you can look at the serial number and tell it's a Frigidaire made for Sears but you can also look at the serial number on a name brand TV at Costco and tell it was made for Costco. You might pay a little more for the same brand outside of Costco but I doubt an equivalent battery made by Johnson Controls (the maker of most DieHard batteries) would cost more elsewhere.

So what is this brand legacy you speak of? Yes, us old gray hairs tend to be brand loyal but I can assure you that will die off as we do. IMHO, the Sears brands need to stay with Sears until the bitter end. Because the brands are dying anyway and it's hard to stop a train.

 

[n8n]

^ makes more sense than any other comment so far in this thread.

Packard built a heck of a good car. American Motors came up with some innovative engineering. So did Studebaker.
Tool companies come and go.
Sears and Craftsman are just a game for Lampert. He's run the thing into the ground so far that Sears itself isn't really even a player anymore.
Stop for a minute and think about what's happened with Sears Kenmore. Used to be one of the top brands. Lowes has left them in the dust.
Why on earth would a Lowes or Ace or HomeDepot need a failing brand?
What potential advantage does that give them on their bottom line?

No fewer than five players tried to revive the Studebaker Avanti. All of them went belly-up.
I just don't see that happening with Craftsman hand tools. Too great an investment for what would be questionable return, and it wouldn't fly unless they assumed the liability of all those "lifetime warranties". Smart investors don't assume those kinds of risks.

I'll argue that the death of Craftsman is sadder than the death of either Studebaker or Avanti Motors, and I say this as a guy who at one point in time built a '55 coupe with a '63 R1 motor, close ratio T-10 and a 3.73 rear out of an Avanti. They had more brand loyalty than just about anyone save for Harley and pissed it all away in a spectacular show of incompetence. Also; Lampert isn't *quite* Mike Kelly. I don't think.

 

[James-W]

So what is this brand legacy you speak of? Yes, us old gray hairs tend to be brand loyal but I can assure you that will die off as we do. IMHO, the Sears brands need to stay with Sears until the bitter end. Because the brands are dying anyway and it's hard to stop a train.

That is an interesting way of putting it and I suspect there is a lot of truth in it too.

 

[four.cycle]

Davefr - can't read the article you cited without a "subscription".

Without reading it, I would imagine you're probably right: Lampert came in late in the game, and Sears was already behind the curve by that point.

n8n - my analogy might not be the most accurate. it was the first thing that came to mind.

at any rate: I just don't see - from a financial point of view - buying the Craftsman name being a good investment. sales are already on a downward curve, customers are pissed off and/or buying stuff online or from the big-box retailers (where price is ultimately the determining factor, not quality.)

maybe a better analogy would be trying to keep a rowboat that's riddled with holes afloat with a bucket of bread dough. how's that?

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Surprised they haven't been sued for gender discrimination... New owners had best change the name to Crafters, TinkerCraft, Craftertool, or some name that doesn't end in "man".. For a meager $35; Sears could pay someone to rid them of the Craftsman name, avoid the lawsuit, and void the ridiculous lifetime warranty liability.

 

[jcfields]

.

 

[Coach James]

Sears began losing market share in the early 1970's. Sears flourished with the post WWII boom, but as the WWII generation moved from setting up houses and starting families to becoming empty nesters and retirees, Sears market share began to slide. This also coincided with the rise of the big box chains which had more appeal to the baby boomers than Sears did.

People can hate Eddie Lampert and think he's a crook, but his methods of raising money are what has kept Sears in business the last few years. He didn't start Sears' decline and the decline was accelerating before he took over.

As to Kenmore appliances just being rebrands, most appliances are. Recently we bought a chest freezer. Two different appliance dealers told me that there is now just one company making chest freezers so ignore the name and buy the cheapest one of the size we wanted.

Coach

 

[BDT/NWMN]

The root cause of Sear's death spiral started way before Eddie entered the scene. Eddie is just the "ambulance chaser".

This describes it quite well:
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120421/ISSUE01/304219970/sears-where-america-shopped

Dave: Thanks for posting that link; as it is well worth reading.. With all jokes aside: it is sad to watch the Sears empire on it's deathbed.. The workers who will, and already lost their jobs, have My sympathy.. Our communities lose a business that was once well patronized, and paid local taxes.. Like the Roman Empire, I see Sears sliding into history.

 

[CJM8515]

Oh well, so sad, too bad Is all I say. The quality of most everything they have carried for the last 20 years is not up to snuff honestly. What can you expect, except the inevitable?

 

[Chromdome35]

In my local Sears store they have a very large tool section. Anymore the shelves are only about half stocked. I can remember in the not so far past when they were packed. The quality of their tools has gotten very poor compared to years past. The mid level tool brands available in Lowes & HD are far higher quality.

You have to look no father than the current lineup of Craftsman power tools to see the decline. I have a BUNCH of Craftsman C3 cordless tools, I've been buying them since they were introduced and have most of them. I don't think they have introduced a new C3 tool in a couple of years. There is no brushless anything under the craftsman brand.

Their bigger power tools are but shadow's of their former selves. Give me a good old Vintage Iron Table Craftsman table saw over any of the current offerings.

Craftsman has no mojo right now and I am not sure they can get it back. What drove the brand to popularity was offering a quality tool at a fair price. Now they offer junk at the same price as everyone else.