jake00
Well-known member
who? the farmer? he's keeping the lease, and money isn't coming out of his pocket
Land ISSUES - Lawyers advise
- Thread starter NWOhioChevyGuy
- Start date
OP
NWOhioChevyGuy
Well-known member
Settlement - Done
Well, persuant to the title insurance policy their out was to have the property surveyed & staked, then appraised with and without the lease. The difference in those two appraisals would be what they owe me. My concern was this being 4-5 grand, leaving me with a loss on the issue.
Well the appraisal was finished at the end of April and the difference was $19,000 check is already in the bank.
No court fees(only my lawyer fees) No Pissed off Neighbors, and I'm OK with it.
I won't get my land back until the end of the lease, but i still have 4.669 acreas to keep me busy until then. But yes for those who asked the land is still MINE, as I purchased the whole property, and the settlement has no bearing on the lease document itself.
First project will be roof for the house and then the garage will get started.
Well, persuant to the title insurance policy their out was to have the property surveyed & staked, then appraised with and without the lease. The difference in those two appraisals would be what they owe me. My concern was this being 4-5 grand, leaving me with a loss on the issue.
Well the appraisal was finished at the end of April and the difference was $19,000 check is already in the bank.
No court fees(only my lawyer fees) No Pissed off Neighbors, and I'm OK with it.
I won't get my land back until the end of the lease, but i still have 4.669 acreas to keep me busy until then. But yes for those who asked the land is still MINE, as I purchased the whole property, and the settlement has no bearing on the lease document itself.
First project will be roof for the house and then the garage will get started.
Titus
Well-known member
Congrats! Glad this story finally got a happy ending!
GrantMLS
Well-known member
wow thats been a long proccess - glad it got cleared up!
malibu101
Well-known member
No one is mad at anyone and you said you were ok with the outcome, even after this lengthy aggrivation.
The good guys do win.
Smart man- fix the house first (keep the wife happy) and then start the garage
The good guys do win.
Smart man- fix the house first (keep the wife happy) and then start the garage
dipper
Well-known member
Great news Ohio. Sounds like we'll be seeing a new build thread soon.
OP
NWOhioChevyGuy
Well-known member
Not a thing, the lease is not effected by the settlement.
Read the whole thread, the farmer has done nothing outside of his legal rights as given by the lease.
Read the whole thread, the farmer has done nothing outside of his legal rights as given by the lease.
CenTex52Chevy
Active member
Are you stuck paying the taxes on the two acreas being farmed? If so you may want to look into getting a farm (agricultual) Tax exemption, may not help out alot,but every little bit helps.
Frank Elson
Well-known member
I've followed this thread from day one and I'm delighted it has had a happy ending.
From this side the pond I don't know if $19,000 is a whole lot of money but it's nearly five times what you worried about, and you seem happy so congratulations !
From this side the pond I don't know if $19,000 is a whole lot of money but it's nearly five times what you worried about, and you seem happy so congratulations !
When is the lease up?
Junkman
Well-known member
$19K is the difference in land value, but you still will be paying taxes on the land for the remaining years of the lease. I think that your lawyer should have put some clause into the settlement that they have to make up the taxes for the future. I don't remember what the remainder of the lease is, but lets assume that it is 15 years. Also, lets assume that the taxes on the 2 acres is $200 this year. over 15 years that equals $3000. Then lets assume that the tax rate is going to double every 5 years......... do you see where this is going? In the end, you might be giving all the money back to the town in taxes. I have no idea of what your attorney did for you in the way of work, but if he got a 25% share of the settlement, you are already behind. I would have fought the assessment of $19K and tried to get more out of the title insurance company, such as your attorney fees. The one thing that I know of attorneys, is that they always want to settle quickly and get their piece of the pie as quickly as possible. They make their biggest share on the original settlement, and after that, they get incremental less, unless the settlement doubles. Then they get double the original settlement. I know it is too late for you to change the settlement, but someone else reading this might benefit in the future..
idoine in toronto
Well-known member
Congrats on the outcome. I've followed this tread from the start, and commend you on keeping the higher ground. I'm sure most (myself included) would have gone insane with the title co's screw up and your neighbors attitude.
I agree with CenTex & Junkman, RE the taxes. A considerable amount of your settlement, if it doesn't take taxes into account, could get eaten away over the course of the lease. I know its not comparable, but I'd burn through that 19,000 in prop taxes on my 1/8 acre in just over 2 years at our current tax rate. And our rates keep going up.
Try for an Ag classification or what ever it takes to get your rates reduced.
I agree with CenTex & Junkman, RE the taxes. A considerable amount of your settlement, if it doesn't take taxes into account, could get eaten away over the course of the lease. I know its not comparable, but I'd burn through that 19,000 in prop taxes on my 1/8 acre in just over 2 years at our current tax rate. And our rates keep going up.
Try for an Ag classification or what ever it takes to get your rates reduced.
trackwelder
Well-known member
Now put the fence and gate up and give the farmer a key.
bookman51
Well-known member
You probably would have preferred the land, and I think the farmer was not without sin in not mentioning it to you earlier. However, I think it is time to go forth and be happy and get on with you life and not anguish over it. The settlement does not sound all that bad. I forget, is there an annual payment from the farmer? Seems like he made a one-time payment for the 30 years. Seems kind of odd to me unless the owner the land was in a bind for money. The land does not look like it is all that critical to the farmer. Anyway, enjoy the money and do not look back. You did the right thing.
Bookman
Bookman
AffableCurmudgeon
Well-known member
I am gald it worked out for you.
gunguy
Well-known member
Sounds like you are ready to move forward and you've got some cash to start some projects. Good for you.
Jim
Jim
monkeyplasm
Well-known member
How much of the 19k went to your lawyer?
Tarheelgarage
Well-known member
Just wonder if this situation would still be going on longer if OP had not gotten the State office involved to push the issue?
OP
NWOhioChevyGuy
Well-known member
I paid him a flat fee to do the paperwork and communicate with the title company.
$0 of the settlement went to my lawyer.
I believe if I did not get the state involved I would not be any further than where I was then at this point. The state is the only one who forced the Title company to move forward.
$0 of the settlement went to my lawyer.
I believe if I did not get the state involved I would not be any further than where I was then at this point. The state is the only one who forced the Title company to move forward.
monkeyplasm
Well-known member
Good on ya, mate!
Rockaholic555
Well-known member
I am fairly new here and just spent the past couple of days reading through this thread, it got me a bit fired up. I'm glad to see that they settled on a number that was a bit more fair and that the justice system came through for you in a way. I think you did just about everything right. Kept the relationship good with the neighbor and focused your attention on the people truly to blame, most people would have probably caused more of an issue for themselves than it was worth.
And on a side note I'm pretty glad that there was a light at the end of this thread(it took quite some time to read through it)
And on a side note I'm pretty glad that there was a light at the end of this thread(it took quite some time to read through it)
Tarheelgarage
Well-known member
The two areas of importance that I obtained out of this entire thread:
1. Just because a Title company wrote a policy on a piece of property does not mean they did their job throughly, especiaily on property that is sold "as is" as was in this situation. Might be a good idea to talk to neighbors in the area to inquire about farm land useage on the property in question to see if any "dead bodies" are revealed that title company missed...or seller failed to mention. "AS-IS" sell should make buyer extra cautious.
2. Getting State authorities involved in the event of title company dragging their feet over dispute/settlement will light some fire under their a$$ and get resolution quicker.
1. Just because a Title company wrote a policy on a piece of property does not mean they did their job throughly, especiaily on property that is sold "as is" as was in this situation. Might be a good idea to talk to neighbors in the area to inquire about farm land useage on the property in question to see if any "dead bodies" are revealed that title company missed...or seller failed to mention. "AS-IS" sell should make buyer extra cautious.
2. Getting State authorities involved in the event of title company dragging their feet over dispute/settlement will light some fire under their a$$ and get resolution quicker.
Junkman
Well-known member
I'm still waiting to hear what the taxes on the 2 acres is so I can do a projected tax cost over the balance of the lease, using historical data as to the value of the dollar over the past 20 years.
$1.00 in 1959 had about the same buying power as $2.34 in 1979.
Annual inflation over this period was about 4.35%.
$1.00 in 1979 had about the same buying power as $3.11 in 2009.
Annual inflation over this period was about 3.85%.
$1.00 in 2009 had about the same buying power as $0.32 in 1979.
Annual inflation over this period was about 3.85%.
$1.00 in 1959 had about the same buying power as $2.34 in 1979.
Annual inflation over this period was about 4.35%.
$1.00 in 1979 had about the same buying power as $3.11 in 2009.
Annual inflation over this period was about 3.85%.
$1.00 in 2009 had about the same buying power as $0.32 in 1979.
Annual inflation over this period was about 3.85%.
Old Moparz
Well-known member
WOW! I can't believe it's finally over.....LOL
Hey NWOhioChevyGuy, glad to see you're done with this headache & happy with the outcome.
I'm looking to take advantage of the lower rates & refinance my mortgage soon, but having had the pleasures of dealing with the incompetence of my own title insurance company twice, I'm going to make a point to bring it to the attention of my bank NOT to reuse the same company. If they do, I'll be sure to tell them I will do business elsewhere.
Hey NWOhioChevyGuy, glad to see you're done with this headache & happy with the outcome.
I'm looking to take advantage of the lower rates & refinance my mortgage soon, but having had the pleasures of dealing with the incompetence of my own title insurance company twice, I'm going to make a point to bring it to the attention of my bank NOT to reuse the same company. If they do, I'll be sure to tell them I will do business elsewhere.
Jaguar Fan
Well-known member
Glad there is a settlement. As someone else said, get a lot of liability insurance. You can easily see the scenario where a day laborer hired by the farmer gets hurt while working on your property, and everyone gets sued. Or a tractor breaks down, a mechanic from a local shop comes to work on it, something bad happens and you get sued. You can think of a thousand permutations. And, I'd ask nicely to get a copy of the farmer's liability insurance before he comes on your property again.
Again, good luck. The best thing about a settlement is sort of like the best thing about not pounding your thumb with a hammer.
Again, good luck. The best thing about a settlement is sort of like the best thing about not pounding your thumb with a hammer.
back2class
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
- Messages
- 2,723
I had not thought about this post but just read it for the forst time since it was all setteled. What a looser the original land owner who gave the farmer the lease. He leased 1/3 of his property for $12 a month? No wonder the farmer was not walking away from that deal.
The farmer definately gets a "you ****" award.
The farmer definately gets a "you ****" award.
HacksawsGarage
Well-known member
No one is mad at anyone and you said you were ok with the outcome, even after this lengthy aggrivation.
The good guys do win.
Smart man- fix the house first (keep the wife happy) and then start the garage
no way! 19k will be eaten by a house faster than you can blink an eye.
ask me how i know!!!!!
my saving grace is i started an addition to the garage in between working on the house. so now both the house and the shop are not completly done (are they ever). but enuff that i can function out there.
i still have a touch of cabinetry to do in the kitchen, and the halllway to paint. but out 20k budget went over by another 10k, and thats on top of the new roof the year before.
so my point is, one best get something done for themselves as the money is there now, and it sounds like wont be down the road.
OP
NWOhioChevyGuy
Well-known member
Well I have to say that if you read the whole post you will see that we bought the house out of Foreclosure so we did pretty well on the original purchase.
If you look at where we are at now with the settlement we have roughly 1/2 of the appraised value into the property.
Plus we have neighbors who still get along with us. I actually sold them a pumping system for on their farm last month and made some $ from keeping them friendly.
Plus this winter when the snow flies they will still plow my driveway for FREE!!!!
We are satisfied with the outcome, now planning on the garage addition has started, have an architech looking at my layout to quote us a cost for drawing up finalized plans and build lists.
I was surprised to see my post back at the front and active again.
If you look at where we are at now with the settlement we have roughly 1/2 of the appraised value into the property.
Plus we have neighbors who still get along with us. I actually sold them a pumping system for on their farm last month and made some $ from keeping them friendly.
Plus this winter when the snow flies they will still plow my driveway for FREE!!!!
We are satisfied with the outcome, now planning on the garage addition has started, have an architech looking at my layout to quote us a cost for drawing up finalized plans and build lists.
I was surprised to see my post back at the front and active again.
pcmeiners
Well-known member
Glad to your hear you are sufficiently satisfied with the outcome. Shame your lawyer/title company were not out for your interest.
Wonder if you could get a tax reduction, as you were unaware of the lease in affect, as you receive no benefits from the leased land ? or does the government consider the 19k as sufficient remediation for you to continue to pay tax on the land.
Just like to point out...
Contrary to suggestion by numerous posts, one can not hamper a lessee's rights by building, fencing, sabotage, etc in anyway or he will sue and win. This goes for any leased property… apartments, buildings, machinery ect, unless by a true miracle your property in the USA does not come under the Uniform Business Code
A legally written/recorded lease can not be broken by a lawyer or judge except if fraudulent, the lessee does not live up to his agreement, or the government takes over due to eminent domain. The lessee’s rights transfers to all subsequent owners, which could be over hundreds of years... Not a lawyer but have taken Business law classes.
Example of what can happen…..
Across from my father's house in Staten Island New York ( really nice neighborhood), a prostitute leases a house to ply her trade. She does not pay rent for 6 months; landlord is pissed, so he padlocks the car port gate. He does not lock the house entrance gate, the entrance door, he does not hamper her in any other way. She sues and wins. Well the landlord does not have much in the bank, but has a large boat. The court awarded her the boat... not fair but reality.
To pass on a golden nugget given by a lawyer about apartment rentals..
In NYC, if you rent/lease an inhabitable dwelling as an apartment and the tenant does not pay it will likely take more then 6 months to evict...if the tenants have kids, a handicap or are seniors you have a really big problem. If you rent an apartment as "space" (no lease), you could have the inhabitants out in 30 days.
Wonder if you could get a tax reduction, as you were unaware of the lease in affect, as you receive no benefits from the leased land ? or does the government consider the 19k as sufficient remediation for you to continue to pay tax on the land.
Just like to point out...
Contrary to suggestion by numerous posts, one can not hamper a lessee's rights by building, fencing, sabotage, etc in anyway or he will sue and win. This goes for any leased property… apartments, buildings, machinery ect, unless by a true miracle your property in the USA does not come under the Uniform Business Code
A legally written/recorded lease can not be broken by a lawyer or judge except if fraudulent, the lessee does not live up to his agreement, or the government takes over due to eminent domain. The lessee’s rights transfers to all subsequent owners, which could be over hundreds of years... Not a lawyer but have taken Business law classes.
Example of what can happen…..
Across from my father's house in Staten Island New York ( really nice neighborhood), a prostitute leases a house to ply her trade. She does not pay rent for 6 months; landlord is pissed, so he padlocks the car port gate. He does not lock the house entrance gate, the entrance door, he does not hamper her in any other way. She sues and wins. Well the landlord does not have much in the bank, but has a large boat. The court awarded her the boat... not fair but reality.
To pass on a golden nugget given by a lawyer about apartment rentals..
In NYC, if you rent/lease an inhabitable dwelling as an apartment and the tenant does not pay it will likely take more then 6 months to evict...if the tenants have kids, a handicap or are seniors you have a really big problem. If you rent an apartment as "space" (no lease), you could have the inhabitants out in 30 days.
rancherbill
Well-known member
This is a good point. Here small holdings are taxed a certain rate. Farmland is SIGNIFICANTLY lower. Check your assessment. Go to the assessor and show the lease etc, and you should be able to get a lower assessment on those acres for the term of the lease.
I have 5 acres undeveloped and taxes are about 1600/year. I used to have 20 acres of farmland and the taxes were 35 / year. Farmers are the Chosen Ones and get sweet deals.
pcmeiners
Well-known member
Rancherbill...
Incredible tax rate, know people in NJ paying >$14000 for a similar lot as mine. Retiring to the south in a couple years, have to look into the farmer's tax deal....thought I was doing reasonably well in Staten Island NY at $2900 for a 75x137 foot lot.
"you should be able to get a lower assessment on those acres for the term of the lease."
he may have a shot at it, in NYC the assessor would just have a good laugh.
Incredible tax rate, know people in NJ paying >$14000 for a similar lot as mine. Retiring to the south in a couple years, have to look into the farmer's tax deal....thought I was doing reasonably well in Staten Island NY at $2900 for a 75x137 foot lot.
"you should be able to get a lower assessment on those acres for the term of the lease."
he may have a shot at it, in NYC the assessor would just have a good laugh.
rancherbill
Well-known member
The only thing I know about NYC I learned in the movies, but, I don't remember seeing any farms
Farmers carry a lot of seats in Canada and the US. They get sweet deals. Secondly they need a huge number of acres to make a living. The taxes on the five acres that I live on are about $4,000. The only thing I get is roads and education for the money.
pcmeiners
Well-known member
RancherBill...
"The only thing I know about NYC I learned in the movies"
Damn you are lucky..... I had to learn first hand
For my tax dollars I get...
Double the average health and auto insurance costs.
Overcrowded roads, traffic jams. Stop signs or traffic lights every 500ft.
8.875% sales tax, surcharges on everything.
$ 10/pack cigarettes
A chance to be mugged at night in a city park.
Revenue generating ticket blitzes on vehicles, sanitation, tree cutting etc.
Crowded banks, supermarket and public bathrooms.
Own a dog and you pick up the poop.
Garbage men who won't pick up a 25 lb refuse can, but retire after 20 yrs.
Call a city government agency and they hang up on you.
We even have sidewalks and street lights.
.....really, what more could a guy ask for !!!
" but, I don't remember seeing any farms"
As a kid Staten Island was fairly desolate, there were about two dozen small farms, now none as a 40'x115' lot goes for $250,000.
"The only thing I know about NYC I learned in the movies"
Damn you are lucky..... I had to learn first hand
For my tax dollars I get...
Double the average health and auto insurance costs.
Overcrowded roads, traffic jams. Stop signs or traffic lights every 500ft.
8.875% sales tax, surcharges on everything.
$ 10/pack cigarettes
A chance to be mugged at night in a city park.
Revenue generating ticket blitzes on vehicles, sanitation, tree cutting etc.
Crowded banks, supermarket and public bathrooms.
Own a dog and you pick up the poop.
Garbage men who won't pick up a 25 lb refuse can, but retire after 20 yrs.
Call a city government agency and they hang up on you.
We even have sidewalks and street lights.
.....really, what more could a guy ask for !!!
" but, I don't remember seeing any farms"
As a kid Staten Island was fairly desolate, there were about two dozen small farms, now none as a 40'x115' lot goes for $250,000.