gordo9742000
Well-known member
I would put an inline spark tester on it an see if it loses spark when it's dying. Sounds ignition related.
'78 F350 Dually Project
- Thread starter RivennHewn
- Start date
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Gordo,
I hadn't thought of that.
What I don't know, is how to tell if the loss of spark would be the cause, or the effect.
If there was a coil/electric problem, wouldn't it result in a no start issue?
I only ask, because I don't know. Thanks for your input.
I hadn't thought of that.
What I don't know, is how to tell if the loss of spark would be the cause, or the effect.
If there was a coil/electric problem, wouldn't it result in a no start issue?
I only ask, because I don't know. Thanks for your input.
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readhead
Well-known member
The ignition module can do odd and unexpected things. Pull the module out of the other truck and see if it fixes the problem.
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Thanks Readhead/B964,
As soon as I get the radiator sorted, I'll start pulling parts off of no. 1, and see if they help getting no. 2 up and running.
Hopefully that'll help with the diagnosis, without buying a bunch of unnecessary parts.
Much appreciated.
As soon as I get the radiator sorted, I'll start pulling parts off of no. 1, and see if they help getting no. 2 up and running.
Hopefully that'll help with the diagnosis, without buying a bunch of unnecessary parts.
Much appreciated.
As far as ignition goes, I would just nuke it. Plugs, wires, cap and rotor. Sooner or later all those items will need to be replaced anyway and who knows when the last time it was done.
Another thing to watch for on old Fords is the battery cables. Fords won't do much of anything if they are marginal. Make sure cable wire is molded into the terminal connector as opposed to the cheap a$$ ones that can be disconnected from the terminal connector. You will always have corrosion problems on those types of connectors.
Another thing to watch for on old Fords is the battery cables. Fords won't do much of anything if they are marginal. Make sure cable wire is molded into the terminal connector as opposed to the cheap a$$ ones that can be disconnected from the terminal connector. You will always have corrosion problems on those types of connectors.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
When I watch the video of it dieing, I swear I am seeing spark between the wires in the center of the screen to the left of the distributor cap? I could be wrong though. That doesn't sound like fuel or choke to me. It sounds like coil/spark loss. Every Ford I've had that has had fuel or choke issues has sputtered to a stop. Yours just turns off.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Happiness is a new radiator.
Well, that may be overstating things a bit.
Thanks David and Perrorojo. Once I get the new radiator installed, and the replacement gas line, I'll get started looking into the ignition system.
There is a bit of water on top of the manifold, that may be what you're seeing as sparks.
No. 1 got another "Take your pet truck to work day" today!
Well, that may be overstating things a bit.
Thanks David and Perrorojo. Once I get the new radiator installed, and the replacement gas line, I'll get started looking into the ignition system.
There is a bit of water on top of the manifold, that may be what you're seeing as sparks.
No. 1 got another "Take your pet truck to work day" today!
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
The radiator hoses were looking a bit less than wonderful, so I decided to replace them.
It was easier to just cut them off, then take the time to remove them carefully.
What a mistake.
Been to several parts stores, and the frustration level is rising.
Even with a part number on a hose, they can't seem to find it.
It was easier to just cut them off, then take the time to remove them carefully.
What a mistake.
Been to several parts stores, and the frustration level is rising.
Even with a part number on a hose, they can't seem to find it.
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
New Radiator, new hoses. Great.
New fuel pump, new fuel line. Great.
Same old problem, still there.
Fired right up, ran for about a minute and died.
Tried another 3-4 times with no change.
I did feel pretty good about the new fuel line I bent up. Contoured nicely into place, and no leaks
New fuel pump, new fuel line. Great.
Same old problem, still there.
Fired right up, ran for about a minute and died.
Tried another 3-4 times with no change.
I did feel pretty good about the new fuel line I bent up. Contoured nicely into place, and no leaks
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dwysywd
Well-known member
Ut oh! 4 pages already? Just 68 to go before we top "making a table"!!!! Lmao
Sent from my quanset hut facsimile machine
Sent from my quanset hut facsimile machine
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
I'm still trying to figure out a way, at some point, to join them.
The flatbed is intended to be a delivery truck for my furniture business.
When I can afford to retire from my real job
Toolfool
Well-known member
Maybe we should collaborate on a project.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
I like it.
What you got in mind?
What you got in mind?
New Radiator, new hoses. Great.
New fuel pump, new fuel line. Great.
Same old problem, still there.
Fired right up, ran for about a minute and died.
Tried another 3-4 times with no change.
I did feel pretty good about the new fuel line I bent up. Contoured nicely into place, and no leaks
Sorry to hear that.
Did you replace the little brass filters where the fuel lines enter the carb?
Look here:
http://www.vintagemusclecarparts.com/pages/filterreplace1.html
Good luck!
Tyler
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Thanks for the heads up on the carb filters, as I would have overlooked those.
Here is what I found under the dist. cap - might have something to do with it
Burnt coil wire:
Condensation under cap:
So, is it easier/ more cost effective to replace the pickup coil in the dist, or just replace the whole distributor?
Here is what I found under the dist. cap - might have something to do with it
Burnt coil wire:
Condensation under cap:
So, is it easier/ more cost effective to replace the pickup coil in the dist, or just replace the whole distributor?
shedfullatools
Well-known member
Replace the whole thing imo, not like you are only planning to have the truck for a short time. You will probably have to do it at some point so why not now..
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Ya, that's what I'm thinking now too.
The little rubber grommet thingy that seals the pick up coil wires coming in to the dist. is decayed and falling apart. That is where the water is getting in.
The little rubber grommet thingy that seals the pick up coil wires coming in to the dist. is decayed and falling apart. That is where the water is getting in.
C_F
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I agree, then you will not only have a new pickup coil, but a vacuum advance & (hopefully) new shaft bushings.
If you mark the orientation of the old distributor to the intake manifold, and also the direction the rotor is pointing (both before & after removal), that will almost make the swap a "plug-n-play" deal.
Toolfool
Well-known member
Nothing specific right now. Just opening the conversation. I do have a stack of thick slate pieces that were treads on an open staircase we tore out of a remodel last year. Haven't come up with a use yet.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
So I did opt for installing a new distributor.
Picked up a generic unit from O'reilly's. It took going to 4 of their stores, and a bunch of putting up with those who really think they deserve a $15/hr min wage, but don't. All I have to say on that subject. No comments required.
I'm hoping that I'm not a gear tooth off. It came out really close to the marks I made before taking the original out. But not perfectly lined up.
The new one came with a plug type connector, but my unit was directly wired into the loom. I'll need to cut the connector off, and splice 3 wires with waterproof connectors and some heat shrink.
Sounds like a good task for a Sunday afternoon.
Picked up a generic unit from O'reilly's. It took going to 4 of their stores, and a bunch of putting up with those who really think they deserve a $15/hr min wage, but don't. All I have to say on that subject. No comments required.
I'm hoping that I'm not a gear tooth off. It came out really close to the marks I made before taking the original out. But not perfectly lined up.
The new one came with a plug type connector, but my unit was directly wired into the loom. I'll need to cut the connector off, and splice 3 wires with waterproof connectors and some heat shrink.
Sounds like a good task for a Sunday afternoon.
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OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
Fiddling with waterproof connectors and heat shrink tubing this morning. Hoping I got everything straight.
Ran the battery down trying to get it to fire back up. Waiting on the charger.
Ran the battery down trying to get it to fire back up. Waiting on the charger.
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1969
Well-known member
Did you get her running?
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Not quite,
Got caught up in the whole fam-damily weekend stuff.
Hoping to get a break n the weather this afternoon.
James E
Well-known member
Something else to think about with your "runs for a while then shuts off" issue... .
I bought a '67 Mustang that had sat for a long time. It did the same thing. After trying a lot of other fixes, I installed a clear fuel filter in the rubber line right before the carb. It immediately filled with rusty **** from the tank. The car would run for a few minutes then the pickup and/or filter would clog up with gunk. After it sat for a while, the gunk would settle and enough clean gas cold flow to start it and run it for a few more minutes.
I thought I'd try to run the gunk through but it never stopped coming. The only fix was to replace the gas tank. There was so much rusty gunk in the tank when I took the old one out that the drain wouldn't even flow--it was totally covered with rust and goop.
I bought a '67 Mustang that had sat for a long time. It did the same thing. After trying a lot of other fixes, I installed a clear fuel filter in the rubber line right before the carb. It immediately filled with rusty **** from the tank. The car would run for a few minutes then the pickup and/or filter would clog up with gunk. After it sat for a while, the gunk would settle and enough clean gas cold flow to start it and run it for a few more minutes.
I thought I'd try to run the gunk through but it never stopped coming. The only fix was to replace the gas tank. There was so much rusty gunk in the tank when I took the old one out that the drain wouldn't even flow--it was totally covered with rust and goop.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Argggg......
This old 460 ain't cooperating with me.
Please check my logic.
Remove #1 spark plug.
Hand crank until I feel pressure in the spark plug hole.
Zero in on 0 degrees for TDC.
Insert distributor, with rotor pointing to #1 in firing order.
But, I'm backfiring a bit. Either through he carb, or the exhaust.
My main question is how do I know i'm at TDC on the combustion VS. the exhaust ?
This old 460 ain't cooperating with me.
Please check my logic.
Remove #1 spark plug.
Hand crank until I feel pressure in the spark plug hole.
Zero in on 0 degrees for TDC.
Insert distributor, with rotor pointing to #1 in firing order.
But, I'm backfiring a bit. Either through he carb, or the exhaust.
My main question is how do I know i'm at TDC on the combustion VS. the exhaust ?
GLTHFJ60
Well-known member
Easiest way I've found is to remove the valve cover and watch the valves of cylinder #1. The first compression stroke after the intake valve closes should be TDC IIRC.
Failing that, you can be 180* out, so try rotating the engine 360* back to 0 and resetting the dizzy again.
Failing that, you can be 180* out, so try rotating the engine 360* back to 0 and resetting the dizzy again.
C_F
ALLIANCE MEMBER
On these old engines, sometimes the outer ring of the harmonic balancer can spin a little, due to the rubber aging.
The best way I've found to check if zero on the balancer is true, is to start bringing #1 piston up on it's compression stroke, then stick a wire or small screwdriver in the spark plug hole, so it's resting on the top of the piston, then slowly continue to bring the piston up. When it reaches it's peak, that's zero...then look & see what the timing pointer is pointing at. If it's pointing at zero, great...if not, then mark where it's pointing.
Also, it helps if you can wipe/scrub the timing marks on the balancer, so they are easily seen. Maybe even rub chalk on the marks & wipe off the excess, so they stand out.
The best way I've found to check if zero on the balancer is true, is to start bringing #1 piston up on it's compression stroke, then stick a wire or small screwdriver in the spark plug hole, so it's resting on the top of the piston, then slowly continue to bring the piston up. When it reaches it's peak, that's zero...then look & see what the timing pointer is pointing at. If it's pointing at zero, great...if not, then mark where it's pointing.
Also, it helps if you can wipe/scrub the timing marks on the balancer, so they are easily seen. Maybe even rub chalk on the marks & wipe off the excess, so they stand out.
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
I was hoping that today was the day I posted about successfully getting my engine to run.
Today was not that day.
Thanks for all your input, and efforts to inform me, but it seems I just repeated my previous mistake.
I'm having a hard time getting this done by myself. I'll just enlist a buddy to help out on turning it over while I pay attention to the compression at the spark plug hole.
I did put a gauge on the fuel line. This is what I got just cranking the engine, not running it.
It would have to start for me to do that.
Today was not that day.
Thanks for all your input, and efforts to inform me, but it seems I just repeated my previous mistake.
I'm having a hard time getting this done by myself. I'll just enlist a buddy to help out on turning it over while I pay attention to the compression at the spark plug hole.
I did put a gauge on the fuel line. This is what I got just cranking the engine, not running it.
It would have to start for me to do that.
readhead
Well-known member
Little silver box about 4" square. Replace it.
1969
Well-known member
Inquiring minds want to know........ did you get her running?
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
In the thick of getting my rear end kicked at work, combined with a couple weeks of nasty weather- haven't even thought about trying.
Always next week, right?
James E
Well-known member
That's the same filter I was using and yes, your gas looks perfectly clean. Definitely not the same issue I had.
Sounds like you're finding TDC correctly--as long as you're checking the correct cylinder. IIRC, #1 on a 460 is the front, passenger side cylinder.
Turn the crank with a breaker bar clockwise while holding your thumb over the spark plug hole. When you feel air pushing against your thumb, you're approaching TDC on the compression stroke. You only feel air on the compression stroke because both valves are closed. As you approach TDC on the exhaust stroke, the exhaust valve is open, so no compression happens.
If you're worried that the outer ring of your damper has slipped (and sometimes they do), instead of continuing to turn the crank until your pointer reaches 0 on the damper, use a flashlight and look into the cylinder and watch for the piston top to come up and then hesitate for a second before it goes back down. It may take you a couple of tries because on the first try, you will probably go past TDC. Just remember that if you have to come around a second time because you went too far the first time, make sure to rotate the crank twice so you're back at the compression stroke when you try again.
Once you are close, take a look at your damper just to make sure it's where it needs to be.
I can tell you from my own experience, most of the ignition issues I've had were due to my own carelessness. I can't tell you how many times I routed spark plug wires incorrectly because the last engine I tuned up had a different firing order. I've routed wires using the wrong side of the engine as cylinder #1. I've routed wires with the correct firing order but assuming the wrong direction of distributor rotor rotation...you name it, I've done it.
I suggest you just double check all of those basics first and hopefully, you've just pulled a boneheaded move like I have done.
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OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
James,
Thank you for taking the time to put up your informative post.
Hoping to get a free weekend to get back on it.
Thank you for taking the time to put up your informative post.
Hoping to get a free weekend to get back on it.
OP
RivennHewn
Well-known member
So.........,
I was doing the thumb in no. 1 plug hole thing, and then the neighbors came over and I got distracted by an ice cold beer.
I jumped in and started it up, and it ran pretty dang well for about 2 minutes.
Then I realized that I hadn't put the plug wire back on the plug. It was running on 7.
I put the plug wire back on, and it wouldn't start. The starter would crank it over, and and soon as i let up on the key, it would act like it had back pressure and reverse direction for just a sec. Odd.
Now I got a dead battery.
Some days.
I was doing the thumb in no. 1 plug hole thing, and then the neighbors came over and I got distracted by an ice cold beer.
I jumped in and started it up, and it ran pretty dang well for about 2 minutes.
Then I realized that I hadn't put the plug wire back on the plug. It was running on 7.
I put the plug wire back on, and it wouldn't start. The starter would crank it over, and and soon as i let up on the key, it would act like it had back pressure and reverse direction for just a sec. Odd.
Now I got a dead battery.
Some days.
Perrorojo
Well-known member
To me, that would suggest that whatever cylinder you had the wire off of is firing way too early or the firing order isn't correct.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
Replaced yesterday