Neat Video, Matco ratchets

[toolman9w]

I know this will probably bring up some negative comments.But I thought the video was cool. Please keep it positive or do not say anything at all.

 

[retDAC]

Nice vid. Thanks for posting. Spin welding was new to me. Where's the factory and who owns it?

 

[toolman9w]

It was to me too.
AJ Manufacturing. Elmhurst,IL (I think)

 

[Empty Pockets]

I'm not an expert on ratchet manufacturing. Interesting video, I didn't realize that it was so labor intensive.

Thanks for posting

 

[gdocktor3]

Cool video. So if the Maxx 88 ratchets are Armstrong design, will Matco continue to produce these ratchets when Armstrong closes up shop?

 

[mudflap]

Cool vid...thanks for sharing..

 

[donpauli2]

Caterpillar Tractor uses " spin welding to fuse two halves into one track roller guides also. Awesome to watch. Look up you tube videos of the show " How it's made " and you can see Snap-On screwdrivers, wrenches, tool boxes and sockets made. As with the Matco video it's surprising the combination of automated and hand work involved


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sonoronos]

I know this will probably bring up some negative comments.

Actually, I think this is awesome...why would this invite negative comments?

if Americans can make great tools at great prices then all the better. Thanks to the ingenuity of modern processes.

I'm actually surprised at how much hexavalent chromium plating is still being done in the US. With all the environmental crackdowns, I'm surprised that most manufacturers haven't gone straight to electroless high phosporous nickel.

 

[toolman9w]

Cool video. So if the Maxx 88 ratchets are Armstrong design, will Matco continue to produce these ratchets when Armstrong closes up shop?

Yes. Armstrong is Apex totally different company making these.

 

[toolman9w]

Actually, I think this is awesome...why would this invite negative comments?

if Americans can make great tools at great prices then all the better. Thanks to the ingenuity of modern processes.

I'm actually surprised at how much hexavalent chromium plating is still being done in the US. With all the environmental crackdowns, I'm surprised that most manufacturers haven't gone straight to electroless high phosporous nickel.

We had some ratchet issues caused by Apex. Just seems every time you mention Matco ratchets someone jumps on it.

 

[toolman9w]

Cool video. So if the Maxx 88 ratchets are Armstrong design, will Matco continue to produce these ratchets when Armstrong closes up shop?

Add to that. the 88 tooth design is patented by Matco. There are differences in the gear mechanism. Slight but enough to hold its own patent. So I have been told.?

 

[mechanical turk]

Neat, I had no idea they used friction welding to attach the heads. I guess it must be cheaper to forge and machine the heads separately rather than forging the head and handle as one piece, with all the different configurations they offer. I wonder if they machine down a standard head to turn it into the head for the locking flex head ratchets they showed in the video. I've got a set of the Armstrongs of the same design. I would guess the handle is forged as a single piece for that rather than welding on a part that has the tabs to receive the head.

Here is a video of the Snap On process:

I would think hot forged as a single piece is stronger than friction welding two pieces, but probably more expensive because you need three dies for every style. And usually the square drive portion is what fails, not the handle. And I don't really know for sure if a friction welded joint is weaker than a forged single piece or not.

 

[Brownsfan]

Add to that. the 88 tooth design is patented by Matco. There are differences in the gear mechanism. Slight but enough to hold its own patent. So I have been told.?

That's probably why they (Matco ) we're able to change suppliers when Apex couldn't fill orders. Plus I'm sure Apex not being able to fulfill orders was a breech of contract allowing them to change.

 

[IndyGarage]

Neat, I had no idea they used friction welding to attach the heads. I guess it must be cheaper to forge and machine the heads separately rather than forging the head and handle as one piece, with all the different configurations they offer. I wonder if they machine down a standard head to turn it into the head for the locking flex head ratchets they showed in the video. I've got a set of the Armstrongs of the same design. I would guess the handle is forged as a single piece for that rather than welding on a part that has the tabs to receive the head.

Here is a video of the Snap On process:

I would think hot forged as a single piece is stronger than friction welding two pieces, but probably more expensive because you need three dies for every style. And usually the square drive portion is what fails, not the handle. And I don't really know for sure if a friction welded joint is weaker than a forged single piece or not.

I doubt if there's any difference in strength between the two production methods. The Snap on forging op creates a lot of scrap and requires heating more metal and having bigger dies so the Matco process is probably a little more efficient on materials, but does require the extra welding annealing and machining for the friction weld.

The major difference I saw between the two is that Matco machines the gearbox after plating, while Snap on does it before plating. This could result in a slightly tighter fit of the components on Matco - which would result in less slop. However I also guess the tolerances of that stuff isn't tight enough to notice much of a difference.

 

[B.S.A. (ret.)]

We built friction welders at New Britain Machine Co. when I worked there in the late 1970's - early 1980's. Some of the original applications were to fuse HSS Heads on to mild steel shanks to make twist drills. The High-Speed Head would hold an edge and the 1" (or so) length would be more than enough to last through many sharpenings. As far as the strength of the bond is concerned, it is stronger than either of the components.

 

[toolman9w]

That's probably why they (Matco ) we're able to change suppliers when Apex couldn't fill orders. Plus I'm sure Apex not being able to fulfill orders was a breech of contract allowing them to change.

True.

 

[neonlazer]

Interesting on the fact they stir weld the heads on vs snap on's one piece.

 

[3baygarage]

Wow really great video. Thanks Toolman!

Even shows how they insert the ball in the square.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Nice vid. Thanks for posting. Spin welding was new to me. Where's the factory and who owns it?

The footage appeared to be a mix of the older Armstrong/Apex factories and AJ Manufacturing. Many of the automated/new machines are probably AJM, and the shots of the dirty large factory area I know are the Apex plant.

Cool video. So if the Maxx 88 ratchets are Armstrong design, will Matco continue to produce these ratchets when Armstrong closes up shop?

Add to that. the 88 tooth design is patented by Matco. There are differences in the gear mechanism. Slight but enough to hold its own patent. So I have been told.?

I'm pretty sure Apex holds the patents for the 88T ratchets, not Matco (and the 84 and 60 tooth ratchets which are the same basic design).

Neat, I had no idea they used friction welding to attach the heads. I guess it must be cheaper to forge and machine the heads separately rather than forging the head and handle as one piece, with all the different configurations they offer. I wonder if they machine down a standard head to turn it into the head for the locking flex head ratchets they showed in the video. I've got a set of the Armstrongs of the same design. I would guess the handle is forged as a single piece for that rather than welding on a part that has the tabs to receive the head.

Here is a video of the Snap On process:

I would think hot forged as a single piece is stronger than friction welding two pieces, but probably more expensive because you need three dies for every style. And usually the square drive portion is what fails, not the handle. And I don't really know for sure if a friction welded joint is weaker than a forged single piece or not.

Ultimately one piece forged or friction welded isn't too important. The weak part is the drive end and both methods are stronger than that drive end will ever be.

That's probably why they (Matco ) we're able to change suppliers when Apex couldn't fill orders. Plus I'm sure Apex not being able to fulfill orders was a breech of contract allowing them to change.

Matco and Apex are still in bed together, despite Matco now being a part of "Fortive Tool Group." It probably wasn't so much a breach of contract as much as it was Apex/Matco saying we need to contract outside of ourselves to get Matco's ratchets back in stock again. Apex could keep producing the 88T ratchets without Matco's permission (and actually they are doing so, at least were for a short period time before they started shutting down).

The Armstrong plant isn't shutting down, just being reduced in size (armstrong is being shut down though). I bet products like the pinless swivel impacts will still be made by Apex in that SC plant (again, another Apex patent) for Matco and Gearwrench. Matco could contract out for the pinless swivels if they wanted, but haven't most likely because the sales of those aren't nearly as important as the ratchets were.

 

[txvwnut]

Cool video. A lot of your automotive valves are spin friction welded together.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Cool video. I wish all these videos would stop using ghey music all the time. Most sound like 80s ***** stuff.

 

[gdocktor3]

I'm pretty sure Apex holds the patents for the 88T ratchets, not Matco (and the 84 and 60 tooth ratchets which are the same basic design).






Matco and Apex are still in bed together, despite Matco now being a part of "Fortive Tool Group." It probably wasn't so much a breach of contract as much as it was Apex/Matco saying we need to contract outside of ourselves to get Matco's ratchets back in stock again. Apex could keep producing the 88T ratchets without Matco's permission (and actually they are doing so, at least were for a short period time before they started shutting down).

.

Kind of contradictory statements here. If Apex holds the patents then why would they need Matco's permission to produce them? Where are you getting your information?

 

[bobcatdan]

I bet they make all ratchet heads so that they can either be welded for a straight or machined for a flex head.

 

[toolman9w]

I bet they make all ratchet heads so that they can either be welded for a straight or machined for a flex head.

That would make sense. Hadn't gave that any thought.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Kind of contradictory statements here. If Apex holds the patents then why would they need Matco's permission to produce them? Where are you getting your information?

I think you just didn't quite understand what I meant. Apex holds the patents, and that means they don't need Matco's permission. Hence, they can produce them without Matco's permission because Matco has zero say in what Apex does with their own patents.

I did a patent search, and was unable to find the one specifically for the 88T mechanism (did find the dual pawl 60T ~120XP patent though). Also, Apex does for sure hold the patents for the locking flex mechanism used on both the Armstrong and Matco ratchets, which would indicate that at least part of the ratchet is for sure an Apex design. This locking flex mechanism first appeared on the Matco ratchets, then later came to Armstrong when they released the 60T locking flex ratchets (which later became 88T).

The second part I did was do a search for patents held by Matco and I couldn't find any for the 88T ratchets. The only patents Matco holds are for air tools from many years ago, which is when they weren't as ******* with Apex and Danaher (and most of them are about to expire).

Makes me think I just missed the 88T patent in the list of several hundred patents Apex has between all the things they produce. Matco holds no patents from the last decade, and thus couldn't have patented the 88T ratchet.

Its also entirely possible that the patent for the ratchets has expired already. Apex uses the same basic design for the 60T, 84T, 88T and Husky 72T and 100T ratchets. The specific tooth count may not be patentable, and the older 60T ratchet may have born the patent that has now expired. This paragraph is just speculation though.

 

[finn]

Tooth count would not be a patentable design item.

Matco and Apex had a messy divorce.

 

[KnurledNut]

Interesting to see Marvel Air Tool Oil used as an assembly lube.

 

[warmpancakes]

The new ratchets are light years ahead of the Apex ones, you can feel a weight difference and they feel smoother, its hard to explain but the older Apex 88t were not as nice as the new ones, after 17 months I finally got my warranty ones back it was almost worth the wait

 

[toolman9w]

The new ratchets are light years ahead of the Apex ones, you can feel a weight difference and they feel smoother, its hard to explain but the older Apex 88t were not as nice as the new ones, after 17 months I finally got my warranty ones back it was almost worth the wait

They are alot nicer.

 

[Loscaldazar]

The new ratchets are light years ahead of the Apex ones, you can feel a weight difference and they feel smoother, its hard to explain but the older Apex 88t were not as nice as the new ones, after 17 months I finally got my warranty ones back it was almost worth the wait

I'd agree. I have a new Matco AFR88 made by AJM and the ratcheting action is definitely better than the Armstrong Apex (2x) units I have in 1/4 drive. The spring behind the pawl is stiffer (more backdrag, but no self reversing or jamming problems either). The machining is also better and there are way less tool marks on the inside of the ratchet. Real quality work.

Tooth count would not be a patentable design item.

The original 60T mechanism may have been the patented one then, and the rest just modifications of the original design. I don't think the older 45T ratchets use the same design as the 60T and for sure the 36T units do not.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

I think I'll stick with other manufacturers ratchets, at least you know what you will be getting from one week to another.

 

[toolman9w]

I still like the video and enjoy my ratchets. Used my 3/8 and 1/4 just tonight to change glow plug in the ol' 6.6 dirty max.

 

[mcmlvif100]

Family owned local company is a leading manufacturer of friction welding equipment, including rotary, linear and stir.

http://www.mtiwelding.com/our-story/ << company background
http://www.mtiwelding.com/technologies/rotary-friction-welding/ << Rotary
http://www.mtiwelding.com/technologies/linear-friction-welding/ << Linear

http://blog.mtiwelding.com/mti-ships-2-story-tall-jet-engine-machine << article with picture of aerospace product friction welding machine on truck for delivery to Pratt & Whitney.

Excerpt from the blog -- "Including all components and subsystems, the linear friction welding machine weighs approximately 400,000 pounds, or 200 tons, and requires an installation area of approximately 40 feet by 60 feet. The machine is 20 feet tall and housed in a pit nine feet deep."

I saw the second of these during a tour of MTI and can confirm its size and the precision of the finish welded products. Cool technology that, as I understand it, was originally develop working with Caterpillar to join rod ends for hydraulic cylinders to the piston shafts. They show the range of product applications on their website.

 

[toolman9w]

Family owned local company is a leading manufacturer of friction welding equipment, including rotary, linear and stir.

http://www.mtiwelding.com/our-story/ << company background
http://www.mtiwelding.com/technologies/rotary-friction-welding/ << Rotary
http://www.mtiwelding.com/technologies/linear-friction-welding/ << Linear

http://blog.mtiwelding.com/mti-ships-2-story-tall-jet-engine-machine << article with picture of aerospace product friction welding machine on truck for delivery to Pratt & Whitney.

Excerpt from the blog -- "Including all components and subsystems, the linear friction welding machine weighs approximately 400,000 pounds, or 200 tons, and requires an installation area of approximately 40 feet by 60 feet. The machine is 20 feet tall and housed in a pit nine feet deep."

I saw the second of these during a tour of MTI and can confirm its size and the precision of the finish welded products. Cool technology that, as I understand it, was originally develop working with Caterpillar to join rod ends for hydraulic cylinders to the piston shafts. They show the range of product applications on their website.

Sweet! Thanks for adding depth to the thread.

 

[L.Cheapo]

If someone told me the heads were welded onto the handles of those standard ratchets, I would not have believed them. Interesting!

 

[Aspen RT]

Way cool, Never heard of the spin welding either. Thanks for posting the vid!

 

[Wamsutta]

Why do they have to weld the ratchet head to the handle? Why not forge the entire ratchet as one piece? That's what their chief competitor does.

 

[finn]

You make money by doing things more efficiently (and better) than your competition.

Doing things the same way as your competition means you are producing a commodity, and that's a pretty difficult way to make a profit.

Friction welding the shank to the head is likely more efficient because there is less in process material waste and scrap. Scrap costs money.

 

[sonoronos]

It isn't enough to simply do the friction welding. There is also a post-weld induction heat treat, which extends beyond the weld joint. This is usually done to reduce residual stress in the part and to reduce grain boundary formation at the HAZ.

You can see this step in the video.

 

[IndyGarage]

Why do they have to weld the ratchet head to the handle? Why not forge the entire ratchet as one piece? That's what their chief competitor does.

Another reason could be to make the ratchet better.

Perhaps they want a tougher material in the head and a more brittle but stiffer material in the handle.