The VISES of Garage Journal

[drivesitfar]

Tone: have you ever seen or heard of Samari (sp?) warrior swords? the Asians have known how to make steel long before the USA did. also Taiwan wasn't in the war and i'm guessing all the factories weren't located in the two cities the A Bombs hit so i'm betting Japan still had factories and people willing to work available.

once again it all depends on whether the importers were able to get the GOOD STUFF so to speak or if they wanted to pay for it knowing that a lot of Americans wouldn't buy Japanese shortly after WWII ended.

 

[MissileBear]

I don't believe 50s-60s Japan manufacturing would be a highlight of manufacturing considering they were still reeling from WWII. I would think 50s-60s Japan manufacturing would be similar to what we see in Chinese manufacturing today.

Didn't Japanese manufacturing really start to excel in the 70s-80s? I'm thinking strictly in the automotive sense (Toyota/Honda quality) but I would imagine it was similar for other industries.

I'm only basing this off a little bit of history and not actual hands on experience with their tools so I'm interested in what other people say

Japanese auto production was arguably at it's peak in the mid-late 1960's, when productivity was 2x that of American & European counterparts. Japan had produced American vehicles under license after WWI and had increased production and manufacturing methods even before WWII. Most manufacturing increased & improved during the war, even with most of manufacturing focus being on the war itself. Toyota, Mitsubishi, Hino, Nissan, Mazda....etc were all ramping up during and immediately following WWII - I don't think they were ever really reeling. They had been improving things long before America ever imported it's first Japanese vehicle.

Japan's WWII aircraft and sea-craft were top notch, even arguably superior to that of American & European counterparts because of some innovation & excellent manufacturing. The same cannot be said for the weaponry, but there are some really important differences that possibly caused this (budget, research, lack of weapon experience, etc)

There are a few good history articles written as MIT thesis/dissertations about the topic. I'd be curious to get @Private Lugnutz's feedback/opinion about this.

@Drives - that Japanese Morgan knock off vise I recently picked up seems to be of very high quality; I would say that casting/machining wise it is superior to either of the Union Parkers I have, and def better than the 60's-70's Columbian vises I own. The guy I purchased this vise said it was from the 1950's - I was sure it was domestic as is is heavy and well made, unlike any of the recent Taiwan/Chinese/Indian vises I have seen.

I cannot speak to the metal composition, but it doesn't look like cheapy pot metal/cheap cast to me. It's a 4" vise at 50lbs, which seems like a beefy weight on par with most of the domestic vises.

 

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by Outlawmws.

Drives and VA; I'm not saying other vises don't also break I'm saying Chinese vises break easier and disproportionally in higher numbers based on my own observations of how many I've seen broke. Long ago I bought one of the Asian made "6" vised. I broke it right were that one did without a cheater bar.
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Outlaw, I agree with you.---While it's true that any vise can be destroyed, based on the law of averages, imports will go first.---Also true about the Jet's hollow slide support being weak just like the hollow support on a Dodge Slide-Set vise.---Weak as a kitten.---Most all of them have hair-line cracks where the support meets the body

Also, I was just being silly.---I do that sometimes.---I just can't hep it.

 

[Outlawmws]

Drives, reading a little history shows how hard the Japanese industrial economy was hit:

World War II wiped out many of the gains Japan had made since 1868. About 40 percent of the nation's industrial plants and infrastructure were destroyed, and production reverted to levels of about fifteen years earlier.

Japanese industrial goods shipped to the US in the 50's and early 60's were as Tone described. Late 60's started seeing good gains in quality in automotive and Electronics. and took off in the 70's and 80's even factoring in the recession that hit Japan from the '73 oil embargo (Japan was almost wholly dependent on imported oil)

70's and 80's Taiwanese was about what we generally get from China today and post war Japan of the 50's/early 60's.

The point is not what they are capable of producing, it's what they do produce for the export market.

Just to exemplify how bad it gets, here is a thread showing a stripped "wondervise" as you like to call them:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3553473#post3553473

 

[MissileBear]

@outlaw - Here is an interesting read about the auto industry in Japan - I referenced this article during my undergrad - there are a few others like it within MIT's library. Like the US, many of the war time factories simply reverted back and were operational again in very little time.

http://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/manufacturing-innovation-lessons-from-the-japanese-auto-industry/

This author (and others) suggested that even with setbacks from the war, Japan still had better, more productive production methods and was able to make more with less.

**(this article is fully referenced too, so it's not just some guy spouting BS and calling it fact - the references are also of value if you have the time to read through it)

 

[Outlawmws]

Did you study Deming while going though all that? Many of the Japanese Mfg. Management practices, particularly in the automotive industry came from an American. the US Mfg's ignored him for many years - to their detriment...

 

[MissileBear]

Did you study Deming while going though all that? Many of the Japanese Mfg. Management practices, particularly in the automotive industry came from an American. the US Mfg's ignored him for many years - to their detriment...

Demming and the Japanese Miracle

Yes, among others. Most of the large players in the Japanese auto industry had taken engineering & manufacturing from America even before the war, and improved upon them very quickly. I believe most of Japanese aviation was "borrowed" America as well.

 

[454ragtop]

The Craftsman machinist vise is cosmetically challenged no more. Just wish I could do a better job with the tag, could get the border ok, but the red "Craftsman" letters just weren't working out at all. I figured I wouldn't be able to get the tag off without wrecking it, but after cleaning it with soap and water again I was blowing it off with air and one of the drive screws flew out, never to be seen again. Once I got the other one out, I tapped the holes for 5-40 SS button head screws.

 

[Outlawmws]

Nice job 454!

 

[MissileBear]

454 - Are the rivets on that vise blind, or are they drilled through the sidewall? Is the tag aluminum?

I am preparing an aluminum sheet to make a series of aluminum embossed tags for some CM block grinders - I could probably print & etch a tag for that vise on the net sheet I dip.

 

[VISEs]

Vises: i love your enthusiasm on VISES hence your handle. I don't know if you are planning on starting a museum or if you actually want to get these back out to users that actually respect a vise, but i do know i'd like a piece of that money tree or maybe it's an OIL WELL producing greenbacks in your back yard. nice finds and WELL DONE!!

BTW lift with your legs when taking that 4C on a stand out of your truck.

BOMBTECH: your Wilton vise and your other Wilton vise holding it were probably made in China and i'm sure Wilton probably makes and sells parts for both those vises if you need any. if you might just need a sleeve with a set screw to hold the screw onto the dynamic jaw that might be bought at a local hardware store or made by a talented machinist.

post up your vise as is and taken apart over on the vise repair 101 thread if you might need more help or hopefully it's an easy fix. since you are missing the swivel base and Wilton doesn't give them away you might build a stand for your vise and have 360 degree access that way and if you were closer i have a few for $20 each that used to be table bases so you probably have something similar in your area or maybe you can make one. some members have even made them out of wood.

good luck

CA: i heard you were going to visit VISES so did you and get to see his almost MUSEUM? i bet it makes your 20-30 vises seem normal doesn't it. wow what a site Vises old cast iron must have been.

Well I love it and live it! I hunt these things down because I can't help myself! It's healthy hobby! I don't sell bench vises...maybe the wiltons because they finding them is like shooting fish in a barrel....but the others I keep...well over 400 of them at the moment. I sell post vises and blacksmith related items Because I love getting those tools back out to people who will use them. Of course there are the 200 plus anvils that are not, nor will they be, for sale...but again some of the other stuff I do sell. I may be young but I would encourage everyone reading this to start gathering this stuff up!! NO ONE NO COMPANY is making this stuff the way it was back in the day. And that my friends is just silly! So I will buy buy buy and as far as the oil well or whatever it is spitting money into my bank account....just know that I work hard making my way in this journey we call life. I'm motivated, focused and Gently relentless enough to GET ER DONE!!! Yeeeeeee Haawwwwww!!!

Get out there boys and spend your IRA, 401k, your kids trust.....ha!


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[454ragtop]

454 - Are the rivets on that vise blind, or are they drilled through the sidewall? Is the tag aluminum?

I am preparing an aluminum sheet to make a series of aluminum embossed tags for some CM block grinders - I could probably print & etch a tag for that vise on the net sheet I dip.

MissileBear the rivets were drilled thru, but in a really weird spot. They broke thru right where there was a ledge to align the dynamic jaw. Was going to make a tool to push them out, but would have been pushing against the same weird half on half off ledge on the other side, decided to just leave it and mask it. So you can imagine my surprise when as I was trying to blow any water out from underneath the tag it came loose. At least now with the machine screws, removal or installation is a breeze. The tag is aluminum, wonder if it is the same one used on grinders.


Oh and thanks Outlaw for the kind words.

 

[jrobb316]

Been off for a while. I think it was rusty, did you follow up on the possible 5198? I saw that weeks ago but his price is too high and I can see a damaged jaw support. I never called him but it did look interesting.

As far as rock island numbering goes the 9x series were stationary and 7x were swivel all with cast in jaws. I believe they to be the originals.
59x were the birtman stationarys with replaceable jaws. 57x were the birtman electric swivel base with replaceable jaws.
When x=1 it's 3" 2=3.5" 3=4" 4=4.5" 5=5" 6=5.5" 7=6" 8=7". Not sure if they made an 8". So 575 would be a birtman swivel vise with 5" jaws. They also had other series, I have a 134 which seems to be a lighter duty but the 4 still corresponds to jaw size.

 

[rusty65]

Been off for a while. I think it was rusty, did you follow up on the possible 5198? I saw that weeks ago but his price is too high and I can see a damaged jaw support. I never called him but it did look interesting.

As far as rock island numbering goes the 9x series were stationary and 7x were swivel all with cast in jaws. I believe they to be the originals.
59x were the birtman stationarys with replaceable jaws. 57x were the birtman electric swivel base with replaceable jaws.
When x=1 it's 3" 2=3.5" 3=4" 4=4.5" 5=5" 6=5.5" 7=6" 8=7". Not sure if they made an 8". So 575 would be a birtman swivel vise with 5" jaws. They also had other series, I have a 134 which seems to be a lighter duty but the 4 still corresponds to jaw size.

I never followed up on it. The high price plus a near three hour drive each way was the killer for me. I was kinda hoping some one else would have followed up on it.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[jrobb316]

I never followed up on it. The high price plus a near three hour drive each way was the killer for me. I was kinda hoping some one else would have followed up on it.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Maybe I'll call him up. It's 3 hours round trip for me. He also had a 6" reed that was outrageously priced. So I don't know how a less than half price offer would fly.

 

[drivesitfar]

JRobb: are you certain the #'s you posted are correct for Rock Island vises? it makes sense for those that i've seen that fall into those catagories. i sold a 853 to Vintage Nut that is a swivel jaw vise and i've seen a #851. i think my Rock Island swivel jaw #158 is 4.5 inch.

then there is a combo vise that is 542- Bx that is a 4.5 incher.

then there is this #53. I also owned a #141 or maybe it was a #143 that was a combo vise and it was a through bolt under the bench swiveler with the huge wing nut.

I'm happy to see you posting again and i thank you for coming up with some sort of method to how Rock Island and Birtman Electric numbered their vises.

VISES you sir are a man with a mission and you sound like you are a fantastic human being too. i also think you are correct in your thinking. i've sold a few vises cause i don't have the space and some have found some member's benches that are pretty happy with them. keep up the hunt (is that HUNT BROTHERS). good luck

GOT AN ANVIL OR TWO OR THREE TO SELL?

MB: nice stuff and i'm reading and learning more, but i really like PRE WWII STUFF more than after it.

OUTLAW: you've said before that i put words in your mouth. YES? well not once in my time her on GJ or my over 20,000 posts have i ever asked the question if JAPAN OR TAIWAN OR EVEN CHINA EXPORTED well made vises. my questions have ALWAYS BEEN did they or can they make a good vise similar to the vises made in the USA and ENGLAND prior to WWII. ok?

how many CHINESE WONDER VISES HAVE YOU SEEN IN PEOPLE'S HOMES? i bet i've seen hundreds in the 10 or so years i've been searching 5 states and Canada in person not to mention the hundreds i've seen posted on GJ or online. all i'm saying is there are BETTER QUALITY ONES that I would even buy and use. sure some of the lower quality ones are full of bondo from very poor castings, and some have been broken and repaired several times and the owner still sold me their old REED, PRENTISS or other vintage vise and didn't want to sell the CWV.

why the love for the CWV i have no idea cause i've only bought one and a friend wanted a good cheap vise so instead of selling him a little 4 inch Craftsman for $75 that was like new he wanted my CWV made in Taiwan. i'm still looking to meet a person that doesn't love their CWV, but maybe somebody on here doesn't love theirs and haven't said so yet.

i still think TAIWAN, JAPAN and CHINA had and maybe have another level of quality we may never see. we export a lot of logs and apples up here among other things and i can tell you the lumber stores sell **** compared to the logs being shipped to Japan and maybe China that they sink for use later. i'd wager the best logs from the PNW have went to Japan for maybe the last 40 years, but that's not first hand and i'd be willing to listen if someone has facts to tell me different.

i also had a Washington grown apple at Disneyland one year and i can almost guarantee you the stores here never got apples that good to sell to us here a couple hours from where they were grown.

ALL: i was moving some vises around today cause this 6 drawer cabinet just wouldn't move with them in it. i thought i had a few, but was a little surprised when i emptied them on the floor. i took a picture before i filled up the shelf above the cabinet and some oak flat files, but i'm getting ORGANIZED and hoping to have a big shop some day.

 

[Outlawmws]

OUTLAW: you've said before that i put words in your mouth. YES? well not once in my time her on GJ or my over 20,000 posts have i ever asked the question if JAPAN OR TAIWAN OR EVEN CHINA EXPORTED well made vises. my questions have ALWAYS BEEN did they or can they make a good vise similar to the vises made in the USA and ENGLAND prior to WWII. ok?

how many CHINESE WONDER VISES HAVE YOU SEEN IN PEOPLE'S HOMES? i bet i've seen hundreds in the 10 or so years i've been searching 5 states and Canada in person not to mention the hundreds i've seen posted on GJ or online. all i'm saying is there are BETTER QUALITY ONES that I would even buy and use. sure some of the lower quality ones are full of bondo from very poor castings, and some have been broken and repaired several times and the owner still sold me their old REED, PRENTISS or other vintage vise and didn't want to sell the CWV.\.

Drives re-read my post; I don't believe I attributed any statement to you. I made a point and my point is still valid: If the Chinese make high quality vises, They are not exporting them. As we like to say on GJ; "Pics or it didn't happen."

As for Taiwan and Japan, I don't doubt they can and do make decent vises. but other than the Enron's from Japan, I can't recall seeing any over here.

If you like them and want one, go for it. No one is stopping you. If other's love them, fine, No one is stopping them either.

I won't be one of them.

Ten years you have been doing this? Seems to me that when you first got here to GJ in Oct 2013, less than 4 years ago, you were always saying how new you were to this, and were very eager to learn? Where does the ten years come from? Methinks some misinformation is at one end of that or another...

I've been buying and using tools since before my teens, and paying attention to who made good or bad tools the whole time. I've been in and out of flea markets, tool stores Sears, hardware stores, thousands and thousands of yard and estate sales, worked on pit crews on innumerable race cars in many different garages and off the backs of many different trucks supporting those cars, for over fifteen years, just to name a few of the places I've handled and used tools.

My current inventory of my personal tools, which is incomplete, sits at about $250,000, insured replacement value. I think its safe to say I've seen and used more different brands of tools than most.

Out of all that, I've seen so many broken Asian vises, including your apparently favored CWV's, that I could not estimate the number.

I think I'm entitled to my opinion.

Drives, reading a little history shows how hard the Japanese industrial economy was hit:

Quote:
World War II wiped out many of the gains Japan had made since 1868. About 40 percent of the nation's industrial plants and infrastructure were destroyed, and production reverted to levels of about fifteen years earlier.
Japanese industrial goods shipped to the US in the 50's and early 60's were as Tone described. Late 60's started seeing good gains in quality in automotive and Electronics. and took off in the 70's and 80's even factoring in the recession that hit Japan from the '73 oil embargo (Japan was almost wholly dependent on imported oil)

70's and 80's Taiwanese was about what we generally get from China today and post war Japan of the 50's/early 60's.

The point is not what they are capable of producing, it's what they do produce for the export market.

Just to exemplify how bad it gets, here is a thread showing a stripped "wondervise" as you like to call them:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...73#post3553473

 

[jrobb316]

I guess I have not had my hands on anything other than the most common ones like I posted. I know what I posted is correct but beyond that I'm not sure. They also had some open screw vises like 505a and 504. Not sure on the jaw sizes there.

 

[BrettJ74]

Well I ended up selling my Rock Island 542-BX so I was really feeling lost without a larger vise.

So while searching CL I found this Morgan 150, after seeing it posted for a couple of weeks the owner dropped the price so I figured I'd better call.

I'm glad I did the vise is in very good shape, and appears to still have original paint? So I purchased it and headed home. After tearing it apart and inspecting everything I found a bunch of sawdust but not much else was wrong with the vise.
I throughly washed and scrubbed it with dish soap and water then reassembled with some Moly Anti-sieze.
I am normally a tear it down blast, paint type of guy, but the original looking condition has me thinking I will leave it as is.
Is there any info available on Morgan dating or history at all, I know they have done government work for years but any info on them is few and far between. Also does anyone know if this paint could be original? Thanks guys have a great day

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[drivesitfar]

BRETT: was the jaw upside down on that MORGAN like you thought it was? i love buying a WOODWORKER'S vise and I think you did well to preserve the original paint. i'm guessing since you bought it in Portland maybe it came off a ship or from the NAVY but not certain. when you cleaned up that BRASS BADGE did it have any initials on it?

just a couple days ago somebody was asking the same question and only a slight response said Morgan was in Chicago prior to 1965. the list is someplace on this thread, but it's getting harder to find. sometimes using GOOGLE and having them lead you to a GJ thread is maybe the best method of finding some things here on GJ.

Jrobb: I hear you on ROCK ISLAND'S #'s being a bit confusing, but i thank you for putting down what you know. do you have catalog pages saved with the model #'s and sizes handy to post cause a lot of that information i used to have is sitting in a half frozen 5 year old laptop?

Outlaw: you are right i was a NEWBIE to a lot of the vises i was reading about when i joined in 2013. i did own more than a few vises, but working in my garage or on a pit crew wasn't my job so basic homeowner stuff which is still pretty much what I do. I thought only Wilton made vises worth buying before i found GJ and a few other web sites.

when you spend 12 hours a day almost every days for months and maybe years looking through barns, old shops, garages, estate sales and garage sales and not just the weekends you catch up quick on what you might have missed in life and you learn a little or maybe quite a bit. granted i still value your opinion, but i just don't think you are ALWAYS correct in saying all Asian imports are ****.

my goal on GJ is to learn and in turn teach what i learn to others here and hope they can pass on good information.

to say that China or Japan or Taiwan can't make a good tool i think is wrong and i was certainly looking for more opinions than yours on this and MB seems to have some information. my thoughts are that the importers only import the quality they can make a profit on unlike the buyers from Japan and CHINA that buy our lumber from the PNW that only want the best.

we can agree to disagree AGAIN and really I like the quality of tools available prior to WWII than after, but of course some good tools have been made since then and some great tools are being made today if you have enough funds to buy them.

ALL: anybody else have a made in TAIWAN, JAPAN, or CHINESE VISE they are proud of the quality and want to share a few pictures please do. for instance i have this AMT pattern maker's vise that is made in Taiwan and i'd say it might be every bit as good of a vise as a real EMMERT.

 

[BrettJ74]

DRIVES: Yes the jaw was just upside down, and both in pretty good shape. All 6 of the screws for the Jaws were missing so I whipped some up at work today. They are a 5/16-18 x 1" flathead, but the heads are abnormally small and the taper is more like 60° as opposed to the normal 82°. The brass tag wasn't to revealing, but overall I'm very happy with the vise

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[twertsy]

Gents,
I've been digging and digging in an attempt to discover the identity of the company that made the H & B (Colton Patent) vises. A nice collection sold in 2012 can be seen here on Worthpoint.

I've attached a picture of a knife from the 1800's made by Humason & Beckley. The logo sure seems to match that of the vises I've been able to track down.

Anyone have any knowledge of or proof/assertion of identity for H & B to share?

 

[PghJKB]

Gents,
I've been digging and digging in an attempt to discover the identity of the company that made the H & B (Colton Patent) vises. A nice collection sold in 2012 can be seen here on Worthpoint.

I've attached a picture of a knife from the 1800's made by Humason & Beckley. The logo sure seems to match that of the vises I've been able to track down.

Anyone have any knowledge of or proof/assertion of identity for H & B to share?

twertsy

I have been kicking this same question around for some time and not getting a satisfactory answer.
Here is what I know:

Based on an article in the December 1st 1887 issue of Mechanical News, Colton pattern vises were manufactured by the Moore & Barnes Manufacturing Co. of Phoenix, N. Y.

Here is a jpeg of the article (the columns were modified to fit into the page due to file size restrictions.)

Here is the link to the article.:
https://books.google.com/books?id=EEY1AQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&hl=en&pg=GBS.PA280

They were later made by Phoenix Hardware and Vise of Homer NY and, later, of Buffalo NY.

My best guess is that the B of H&B may be Barnes?? - Although I have no evidence to support that theory and I kinda like your theory as well.

There were some other suspects mentioned in a previous post - will look for that post later.

JKB

 

[Outlawmws]

Some more mud for the Colton water:

George A. Colton was the patent holder, No. 320,224. Patented June 16, 1885.

H&B, Inmarks, Phoenix and unmarked examples of the vise exist.

The Directory of American Tool and Machinery Patents has some other conjecture:

http://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?id=7259

Including a link to a Canadian Patent: CA Patent: CA-22,421

and:

An example has been seen on eBay, labeled only with the patent date. The example matches the patent drawings very closely. Another example has been reported, marked with the patent date and "H & B". The EAIA's "Directory of American Toolmakers" reports the same but has no further information on the identity of "H & B". Possibilities include the Hubbard & Blake Manufacturing Co. of West Waterville, ME., and the Humason & Beckley Manufacturing Co. of New Britain, CT.

The 1887-12-01 issue of Mechanical News has an illustrated article on the Colton patent vises made by the Moore & Barnes Manufacturing Co. of Phoenix, N. Y.

 

[jrobb316]

Well I ended up selling my Rock Island 542-BX so I was really feeling lost without a larger vise.

So while searching CL I found this Morgan 150, after seeing it posted for a couple of weeks the owner dropped the price so I figured I'd better call.

I'm glad I did the vise is in very good shape, and appears to still have original paint? So I purchased it and headed home. After tearing it apart and inspecting everything I found a bunch of sawdust but not much else was wrong with the vise.
I throughly washed and scrubbed it with dish soap and water then reassembled with some Moly Anti-sieze.
I am normally a tear it down blast, paint type of guy, but the original looking condition has me thinking I will leave it as is.
Is there any info available on Morgan dating or history at all, I know they have done government work for years but any info on them is few and far between. Also does anyone know if this paint could be original? Thanks guys have a great day

Very nice find. Morgans are dated from the city on the casting Chicago were the originals, don't remember the exact dates but late 30s through 50s I believe. Then they moved to Aurora (a west suburb of Chicago) and had that cast in the side. By far the hardest to find but they're out there. 50s/60s. Then In 1970 Milwaukee tool and equipment (not to be confused with Milwaukee tools) bought them and still make them to this day in Milwaukee. I've been to the plant a few times picking up stuff and have posted pics before. They also still support your vise with jaw inserts etc and they always have stock. Several members have bought parts from them and all had good experiences. One of the last made in USA vise companies still in business. Nice find.

 

[twertsy]

So, I've been working on a new project in the vise area of the site. Haven't published it yet, but it's coming. I've been going through all the catalog references I can find, which I've posted here, and documenting model numbers, year of publication, weight, jaw size, etc., etc. Ultimately we will be able to view and analyze that data to see what vises were produced when, by model number or weight or whatever.

For example, with only what I have now I can see that the Parker oval slide #35 increased jaw width by 1/4" but retained the same weight sometime between 1875 and 1894. Likewise, the #6 stationary parallel vise increased jaw size by 1/4" and gained 37 pounds during the same period.

That range of dates from 1875-1894 is exactly why I'm posting this.......I need your catalog cuts. I'm happy to do all the work but I need you folks to send me cuts you have to fill in years. If so inclined, you can email them to me at [email protected].

 

[mike_paxton]

After cleaning the old Athol M&F Co. No. 616 vise, ran into a problem on how to assemble the coil ring and two spacers. onto the lead/main screw.

First found info on how some had done it with tying off the coiled spring while clamped in a vise with safety wire.

That worked somewhat, but I didn't have safety twist wire and so coil would unloosen my metal tie offs just enough to not be able to get access to the hole for the cotter pin.

Did a little more reading and some had used plastic pipe and notched one end which would allow you to push the coiled spring tight enough to get the cotter pin installed into the hole.

Since I normally work alone, found I also needed to get a Bessey F Clamps out and that allowed me to tighten the plastic pipe enough to get access to the hole for cotter pin to be installed, then rotate handle a 1/2 turn to spread the wings out on other end of cotter pin.

Thanks to the GJ Forum and reading what others had done to get the job done on their Athol vises.

Mike

 

[eddieK]

The Craftsman machinist vise is cosmetically challenged no more. Just wish I could do a better job with the tag, could get the border ok, but the red "Craftsman" letters just weren't working out at all. I figured I wouldn't be able to get the tag off without wrecking it, but after cleaning it with soap and water again I was blowing it off with air and one of the drive screws flew out, never to be seen again. Once I got the other one out, I tapped the holes for 5-40 SS button head screws.

My Craftsman tag looked like that as well...a black paint pen and a red paint pen brought it back...

adult image

screenshot windows

 

[va.grouseman]

Man that is a pretty vise EddieK.---Turned out real nice.

 

[joe.striper]

Organized the shop a bit today. On the aqua rack bottom 2 shelves are all swivel jaw vises. Top shelf are all Athol all the time.

 

[Carla]

A thought, regarding vises in Japan......

Whilst I have to agree with Outlaw, regarding the pathetic quality level of the generality of the oriental import equipment sold by importers here, there are multiple truths, to be sure.

As we all know from history, the Jap Empire built up a formidable munitions industry some 80+ years ago, with literally 'world-class' technical productive capability.

The 'small-change' of this industry, such as vises, hand tools, and light machine tools were, obviously, of 'adequate' quality to 'get the job done'.

Interestingly, I've seen very few items of apparently pre-war or war-time Jap munitions-plant tooling equipment, of this time-frame, here on the west coast, other than a few odd thingamies which somehow migrated to this country, maybe as 'souvenirs' following the war.

If you've the interest, in this modern age of internet instant communication, you might be able to make contact with someone in the modern Japanese equivalent, or parallel, of the Garage Journal site (it seems probable that they'd have one, cars are an interest everywhere), and ask about the Japanese tooling of the last century of industrialisation, and the modern tooling made in Japan for domestic use.

I've not the vaguest idea as to whether there might be any 'vise collectors' in Japan, but there could be, who could provide photos and specs of the various makes and vintages of their vises. I'd not be surprised to see British and German designs, as a generality.

From the very little i've read on the subject, the beginnings of the then-modernised Jap Navy, from 1900-ish forward, was built up by British and German firms on contract, including major shipyard machinery and tooling. It would seem plausible that such as vises were one of the many items for which drawings and patterns would be furnished, for manufacture in Japan to British or German specs, so of good quality. (whatever the quality of their tooling, the ships and munitions that tooling built were of adequately high quality to make life hell for our men in the Pacific, 70-odd years ago)

cheers

Carla

 

[KMScott]

Nice collection Joe, nice having stuff on wheels. Where is the machines. If you are showing your shop then gotta show a picture of them.

 

[G-ManBart]

I just realized I never posted a pic of two of my latest acquisitions and decided to take a comparison photo. Some folks call the Wilton 2.5" bullet a baby like the 2", but there's a pretty big difference between the two. I've also hear some folks call the 2.5" a toddler rather than a baby...that might be more fitting.

Both appear to have their original paint, and are in great condition. The 2.5" is stamped 1974 and the 2.0" is 1967.

 

[ALLFAST]

The Masked Magnet strikes again....cool pieces Bart !!!!

Carla, your knowledge of historically significant industrial tooling topics never fails to impress me ! Ill do some reading on this as its something I never considered.

Be Well-Shawn

 

[6pony6]

Here's a 4.5" Bullet vs. a 2" Bullet. You wouldn't think it would be that big a difference.

 

[Rileysan]

It's been awhile since I picked up a vise. This one came from a retired machinist who was selling a heritage era Craftsman tool box on CL. I saw it on his bench and asked him if it was for sale. He asked what it was worth and I replied "About $150.00" - so he offered it to me for $50. SOLD!

Yost 105. It's an oldie and it is in excellent condition.

Brian

 

[va.grouseman]

G-Man and 6pony, A well rounded family usually has a father, a mother, teens, tweens, and babies.---The Wilton's.

 

[va.grouseman]

Saw where Matchless has put that big Pipe Fitter Morgan on EBay.---Knew I had seen one before but took a little while to find it.---All I had to do was ask Outlaw, just didn't know it.---Only difference is Outlaw's is a 6 incher, and Matchless's is an 8 incher.---Must have been a special orders.

To put those big pipe jaws in weight perspective, Matchless says the vise weighs 245 lbs., and it's a stationary.---I have a Morgan #80, swivel based, and it weighs 210 lbs., with the swivel base.---That should put the jaws around 50 lbs.---If someone knows the exact weight of the 80s base, then extrapolate for me.---I'm just guessing.

I'll show Matchless's first.--------Click the link below.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/FZsAAOSwjL5ZI0xy/s-l1600.jpg


Now the one that Outlaw posted on page 773, post 15457.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=334897&stc=1&d=1398012718


It sold on EBay to.

 

[Outlawmws]

Just to be clear. I posted those pics but the vise was not mine. It just needed saving somewhere! (And see; years later we needed it!)

 

[RG Rude]

Just to be clear. I posted those pics but the vise was not mine. It just needed saving somewhere! (And see; years later we needed it!)

Matchless has some nice stuff up on FleaBay. I like the anvils too.