The VISES of Garage Journal

[gman007]

I had posted a seperate thread about a new in box Craftsman 51854 from 2007 as my first post.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=383587&highlight=craftsman+51854

Mentioned in that thread that I also had an old vise that was my Fathers, thought it was a Craftsman because it was originally red/orange but turns out it is a Shop King by Wilton. Reading here I know that's a pretty basic model. When setting up my new workbench trying to decide whether to mount the new or the old. It seems like it would be cool to use my Dad's vise if I could do a basic rebuild on it.

Are the jaws available? Do they have to be specific to the vise model?



Mine doesn't have the Hardy hole, is that unusual? Seems every picture I've seen they have them. Also missing a pipe jaw, are those available?

damon Since this was your father's vise, it obviously has a value way beyond the its nominal monetary value. So how one might proceed restoring such a vise might not be necessarily driven by dollars and cents.

In general it is not easy to come by jaw inserts as we well as pipe jaws and they are obviously specific to the size of your vise. And having custom jaws (specially the pipe jaws that have complex geometry) machined can cost you several hundreds of dollars. While spending this kind of money on a high end vise makes sense, for a Shop King at least from purely monetary aspect, it might not make sense.

Your Shop king seems to be model #14. It might be cheaper and quicker to buy another shop king 14 and cannibalize the parts that you want. I did a quick search on eBay while there are Shop Kings in better shape that go for $90-100, for EXAMPLE this one which is a lot cheaper (and price is negotiable)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332027658494?rmvSB=true

has all the parts that you need. The jaw inserts are in good shape. It has one pipe jaw which is what you need. You will also have other spare parts for your vise should need arises.

In this particular case (example) the seller is open to offers so you might get it for less than asking price. Keep in mind depending where you and seller are, the shipping charges might be a deal breaker. In fact in this example if shipping the whole vise proves to be prohibitive, you might ask the seller if he will be willing to just send the parts that you need.

The main point though is that even if this one does not work for you, you can try to find another one that is more cost effective.

Finally there is a seller on eBay named oldtoolnut59 who sells vise parts (he is a good guy). if you are lucky he might have some of the parts you want but honestly I think you will have better luck with getting another Shop King like I described above.

PS
All the Shop kings that I have seen have the Hardy hole, including the one that I have (see photo).

 

[drivesitfar]

TJ: thanks for the TEASER PIC with your 3/4 inch vise in the jaws of your 300+ pound Prentiss #98's new jaws. sorry to keep asking, but if you might still have that in place any chance we could get a few full view pics? VERY COOL!!

2Slow: wow that's a nice shop full of quality Wiltons. is your BIG ATHOL a 6 inch one cause you own a 6 inch Wilton that isn't a little thing and you mentioned your old Athol is a beast? I know these old 6 inch USA made combo vises weigh in the 150-190 range, but the 8 inchers are maybe 50 and 100 pounds and bigger.

interesting to hear about the pricing grid and your original price was a pretty good buy and sadly you are not the first person to post pictures of Wilton's shoddy shipping boxes and packaging.

007: nice post helping Damon

Shift: without taking your shelf apart how did you manage to get the long bolt thru your shelf or were you able to remove it first?

 

[Shiftless]

drives:
The post on that size Monarch is 1/2 inch diameter. I drilled an oversized hole 1 inch in diameter and angled the post into the hole as I lowered the vise into place. A small stack of appropriately sized washers underneath let me spin the wing nut up nice and snug.

Damon:
It’s great that you are restoring your father’s Shop King. I love the Art Deco lines on that model. Very similar to the Parker homeowner vises of that era like the 63 1/2 model.

Many of us wonder where all the removeable pipe jaws have ended up. Guys just pulled them out when they got in the way, put them in a drawer, and they got lost forever.

 

[gman007]

Many of us wonder where all the removeable pipe jaws have ended up. Guys just pulled them out when they got in the way, put them in a drawer, and they got lost forever.

Shift I am going to date myself a little bit but if you ever saw an episode of Seinfeld where Seinfeld explained the mystery of missing sock in the drier, you would know that the missing pipe jaws in fact are not misplaced by the vise owner, but rather they run away on their own to freedom (may be they do not want to a hold a pipe and have more lofty aspirations or higher calling )

 

[Shiftless]

There we have it! The most logical explanation to the lifelong mystery of all the missing pipe jaws.

 

[hitthewall79]

So I'm looking for the metal bar that goes into my swivel base lock nut? Is there a cheap or easy way to make these? Or somewhere where I can find cheap replacement parts?

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[va.grouseman]

So I'm looking for the metal bar that goes into my swivel base lock nut? Is there a cheap or easy way to make these? Or somewhere where I can find cheap replacement parts?

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KMScott has the answer to that one.

 

[va.grouseman]

I like the Lions Head, Shift.---I have a soft spot for them too.

 

[gman007]

So I'm looking for the metal bar that goes into my swivel base lock nut? Is there a cheap or easy way to make these? Or somewhere where I can find cheap replacement parts?

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Hit This is a nice Wilton and in nice shape. If this was my vise I would not try to cobble something together as frankly it might look odd and very different from the second swivel arm. Additionally if your intend is to sell this, it adds no value as it will be very obvious home made fix. If you want to keep it for your own use, you want it to have nice and strong swivel arms.

To do justice to a nice Wilton bullet, I second what VA stated. Dr. Scott makes very nice (made from Cold Rolled 1144 steel) and strong (stronger than original) swivel clamps. I believe there is also a 10% discount for GJ members. Here is the web site

http://www.wiltonviseparts.net/7-8-diameter-swivel-clamps-1-2-13-thread-fits-most-wilton-models/


If this was a cheap basic vise say a Columbian Mechanics vise, then that is a different story. In fact I made both the swivel nut and arm from basic bolts for a Columbian D44 (I paid $10 for this very rusty and frozen D44) and for fun and challenge restored it. But I would not do this with a nice Wilton and would go with Dr. Scott's masterpiece.

At the end of day obviously it is your vise to do whatever with. That is just my two cents (since you asked)

 

[KMScott]

So I'm looking for the metal bar that goes into my swivel base lock nut? Is there a cheap or easy way to make these? Or somewhere where I can find cheap replacement parts? [/IMG]

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Cheap? Ya gotta make them your self. Here are a few pic's on how I make mine that I pounded out yesterday with torch heat in a simple jig that pinches the handle bar. Others here do it with a carriage bolt then weld a nut on the other end and form it to look nice, I do not like bolt steel unless it is grade 8. If you want more detail then check out this blog I wrote. Show us what you come up with.

https://wiltonviseparts.wordpress.com/2013/11/07/building-swivel-clamps/

 

[trijeff]

Cheap? Ya gotta make them your self. Here are a few pic's on how I make mine that I pounded out yesterday with torch heat in a simple jig that pinches the handle bar. Others here do it with a carriage bolt then weld a nut on the other end and form it to look nice, I do not like bolt steel unless it is grade 8. If you want more detail then check out this blog I wrote. Show us what you come up with.

https://wiltonviseparts.wordpress.com/2013/11/07/building-swivel-clamps/

Great jig Kevin! Finally see a use for an old set of jaws. Question - what length do you have extending from the top before you start heating/hammering? Thanks!

 

[KMScott]

Great jig Kevin! Finally see a use for an old set of jaws. Question - what length do you have extending from the top before you start heating/hammering? Thanks!

For the fixture I add a .020 shim in between the two steel plates and drill the right size hole. Bolt together if you want but not necessary for making a couple. This gives you a nice pinch. I then chamfer the hole kind of heavy for more like the ends I make. The 3/8 handle material is around a 1/2" above, cherry it and pound down to about a 1/4 inch then pound around for a mushroom shape if you want them like a cap, pound more if you want to shape it more like Wiltons. Your jaws might be to hard, aluminum will work.

 

[trijeff]

for the fixture i add a .020 shim in between the two steel plates and drill the right size hole. Bolt together if you want but not necessary for making a couple. This gives you a nice pinch. I then chamfer the hole kind of heavy for more like the ends i make. The 3/8 handle material is around a 1/2" above, cherry it and pound down to about a 1/4 inch then pound around for a mushroom shape if you want them like a cap, pound more if you want to shape it more like wiltons. Your jaws might be to hard, aluminum will work.

thank you!!

 

[rusty65]

Morgan 8incher up on eBay. Just under 3 bucks a pound kinda light at 210 pounds but it’s got a swivel base and a custom bent lockdown lever. https://m.ebay.com/itm/Shop-Vice/202236068164?hash=item2f16358144:g:by4AAOSwMGhahmaf

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[hitthewall79]

Got an offer on this Columbian, what would you say a good asking price? Ebay varies anywhere from 50 - 200. Jaws are in good condition, swivel base works, and spindle spins with 1 finger

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[2slow]

2Slow: wow that's a nice shop full of quality Wiltons. is your BIG ATHOL a 6 inch one cause you own a 6 inch Wilton that isn't a little thing and you mentioned your old Athol is a beast? I know these old 6 inch USA made combo vises weigh in the 150-190 range, but the 8 inchers are maybe 50 and 100 pounds and bigger.

drivesitfar:

The Athol vise is a 326 6" jaw model. I bought it for scrap money ($25) from a welding shop going out of business. It was pretty crusty looking when I got it, but it cleaned up very nice. I found an old Starrett ad that lists it as 225 lbs.




Although heavy, I can / did / probably shouldn't carry the 6" Wilton into the shop on my own. It is a only 150lbs. The Athol was moved with the engine crane...

-Joe

 

[va.grouseman]

2slow, the 225 lbs. is shipping weight.---I have 2 of the #326 Starretts, and they weigh in at 214 lbs. each.---The earlier Athol version may be heavier.

 

[Shiftless]

I have the smallest of that series...a 323 1/2
A remarkably precise and well built piece of equipment.

 

[2slow]

I forgot about this little Craftsman in the first post. I guess it wasn't on a bench corner...

 

[damon18]

Your Shop king seems to be model #14. It might be cheaper and quicker to buy another shop king 14 and cannibalize the parts that you want.
...

PS
All the Shop kings that I have seen have the Hardy hole, including the one that I have (see photo).

gman007 thanks for the tips. Couple of questions, are all the Wilton Shop King pipe jaws the same? Is there a front and back or different sizes for different size vises?

How do those pipe jaws attach, the one still on the vise doesn't seem removable without disassembling the vise, so how do they get lost?

And are all Wilton Shop King #14's the same size? Does the 14 indicate the jaw size or just the style? I've seen 14's for sale as 3 1/2 and 4 inch, I forgot to measure the jaws on this one.

It’s great that you are restoring your father’s Shop King. I love the Art Deco lines on that model....
Many of us wonder where all the removable pipe jaws have ended up. Guys just pulled them out when they got in the way, put them in a drawer, and they got lost forever.

Thanks Shiftless, if that's the case for the jaws I still might find it in one of the tool boxes or junk drawers.

 

[454ragtop]

Not all Shop Kings have the hardy hole. I have a new one in the box, no hardy hole.

 

[Outlawmws]

Got an offer on this Columbian, what would you say a good asking price? Ebay varies anywhere from 50 - 200. Jaws are in good condition, swivel base works, and spindle spins with 1 finger

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Asking and getting are two different things. Look at Sold listings for a more accurate picture, and understand local sales generally don't get that high.

 

[gman007]

gman007 thanks for the tips. Couple of questions, are all the Wilton Shop King pipe jaws the same? Is there a front and back or different sizes for different size vises?

How do those pipe jaws attach, the one still on the vise doesn't seem removable without disassembling the vise, so how do they get lost?

And are all Wilton Shop King #14's the same size? Does the 14 indicate the jaw size or just the style? I've seen 14's for sale as 3 1/2 and 4 inch, I forgot to measure the jaws on this one.

Damon I am not sure what do you mean by " Is there a front and back", the back and front are obviously different. Are you asking if the two pipe jaws are interchangeable? If so I believe yes you can take the right hand pipe jaw and flip it 180 deg and use it on the left hand side and visa versa (as the pipe jaws are symmetric with respect to the center line).

As Shift pointed out in general the case of missing pipe jaws on most vises is a mystery. Now in the case of Shop King, as you have kind of alluded to, why would someone go the trouble of unscrewing the main screw and then ONLY remove one of the two pipe jaws (and not both). Also why would so many owners do the same odd thing and remove only one pipe jaw?

The quality of the OEM Shop King pipe jaws does not seem to be exactly very high. Therefore it is plausible that some of these simply broke during usage (at least that is my best guess)

As far I know the no 14 has 3 1/2" jaws (if you want to I can measure mine and let you know for sure).

BTW
Here is another one which is missing the base but has excellent jaw inserts and two pipe jaws (which is more than what you need to fix yours) for $49.99 + $19.99 shipping

VINTAGE WILTON SHOP KING VISE CHICAGO #14 USA. 3.5" Jaw

https://www.ebay.com/itm/142302261336?rmvSB=true

 

[va.grouseman]

Man, those Rotators have really shot up in value.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONSTER-AN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

 

[gman007]

Not all Shop Kings have the hardy hole. I have a new one in the box, no hardy hole.

Yours definitely looks a little bit different, there is no hardy hole, hardy tool and it seems to have built-in pipe jaws rather than the removable ones (is that correct?). Additionally the base is square instead of round.

Interestingly the drawing on the box has the removable pipe jaws and round base!

This is all new to me.

 

[hitthewall79]

Asking and getting are two different things. Look at Sold listings for a more accurate picture, and understand local sales generally don't get that high.

Idk man, I sold a Columbian 143 the other day, it's normally like a 35 vise, and I was able to move it for 50, and it was gone in a matter of hours

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[Razorhunter]

Guys,
I have a question regarding date stamps on the Wilton vises. I am umsure of vises I've owned in the past, but I've noticed that the last two Wiltins I've acquired, both seem to have the date stamped not only on the underside of the round slideway bars key, (as is typically the case), but also on the spindle "hub" as well.
Notice here below, that the month does not match, but the last two digits for year 2009 do match. This is in a C1 vise.
I have another 450S, where the key is stamped " 2 00" for what I assume to be Feb 2000, and the spindle hub on it has the last teo digits of 00 also.
Is this coincidence, or did Wilton stamp the date on my spindles as well?

Below is a Wilton C1 slidebar key, and spindle, appearing to possibly both have the year 2009 stamped into them.
As I said, I also have a 450S that has this same situation going on as well.

 

[Yingpin]

Finally found a Wilton Locally but it looks like too much trouble for the price. Poor thing has been outside for a long time. $255 is the asking price

 

[drivesitfar]

RAZOR: the Wilton date stamp thread I started didn't really talk about date stamping past the mid 80's and only talked about the 1980's really because of the baby bullets from Chicago factory being dated then.

the main reason for that thread was to try and establish when the stamp dating started cause some members always assumed that Wilton had a 5 year post date stamp even though some vises were stamped 1945 and Wilton wasn't in business until 1941.

you might have a point about the date stamp, but since it's after the vise supposedly left the factory i'd say it's a part #.

good question and nice looking vises!!

Ying: that Wilton looks like it's missing part of it's static jaw or my eyes are bad, but the steel table looks like it has some value so might be worth a look in person. if part of the jaw is missing i'd pass, but if it's just painted and it's in better shape than the picture maybe worth making an offer if you need a WILTON.

 

[Razorhunter]

Thanks so much for your insight drivesitfar. It's guys like you who compile information and always seem to be a wealth of knowledge which makes this even that much more enjoyable!

 

[Razorhunter]

Anyone ever seen a Wilton High Strength Engineers vise? Apparently made by a compant out if Australia named Dawn. Only made for a short period of time. Sorry for the bad pics, but this is the best I know how to do when posting screenshots I snag off the net. Seller is asking $1350 for this dang thing.

 

[drivesitfar]

Razor: thanks for the Kudos and glad to help if I can. that Wilton was made by Dawn vice company in Australia that i think now has their vices made in China. it's an OFFSET VICE (VISE) and on my wish list cause you can get full grab on vertical pieces if you need that sort of hold.

i hope i don't have to pay that much for one or i'll just use my old woodworking pattern vise and here's my Emmert copy made in Taiwan that is still sold new under a different company now and probably now made in China.

 

[gman007]

Man, those Rotators have really shot up in value.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONSTER-AN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

VA
Well we have had .com bubble, technology bubble, housing bubble (many times), financial bubble, etc. So why not a vise bubble?

$799.99 for a busted vise (both jaws are soldered/welded) !

It looks like even the lowly basic Columbia mechanics vises have shot up in value multiple folds. Old Wilton bullet vise prices have gotten even crazier, Small vises and Rotators are the craze (pretty soon boutiques in New York's Fifth avenue will be selling these vises as high fashion accessories! Gucci handbags are out, Baby Wiltons are in ).

If this turns out to be a real vise bubble, when it bursts, it is the time to buy

BTW, no bullet train surfing fun for you this time, it is fixed price (and vise busted) and no tunnels to duck from

 

[va.grouseman]

Gman, good news, there's no extra charge for the welding fix.


Yea, instead of donning accessory Chihuahuas, Miniature Collies, and Chistsues, those high toned ladies on Park Avenue will be cradling and showing off their Baby Bullets and Nickle Plated Baby Prentisses.



Yea, an $800.00 vise would have been a heck of a ride if open for bids.---Something tells me that I would have had to bailed a might earlier than $800.00 if I could have hoboed that one.

 

[454ragtop]

Speaking of busted vises https://www.ebay.com/itm/352284745786?rmvSB=true
Proof that crack don't smoke itself.........
Lets see - static cracked - check
dynamic cracked - check
main shaft (?) repaired - check
handle missing - check

Yep, a real collectors item!

 

[notlob]

Another CL busted vise - "in original working condition"

Who would possibly notice the huge brazed repair job?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/tls/d/chas-parker-vise-102/6501587647.html

 

[mdkingsley]

I just finished this Reed 106R I got it In a package deal with two busted vises and a nice arbor press. I blasted it Painted it with oil based primer and paint so it has a tough paint on it. My question to you guys would be would it be more desirable if the slide on the dynamic jaw and the pads were bare metal and the rest painted or should I just leave it black. We are using some glass bead media and walnut shells that would give it a nice bare metal look. So what’s all the experts say ? It will be for sale soon just wondering what what may make it more valuable.

 

[hitthewall79]

Another CL busted vise - "in original working condition"

Who would possibly notice the huge brazed repair job?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/tls/d/chas-parker-vise-102/6501587647.html

At least the brazing looks good? Lol

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[va.grouseman]

Another CL busted vise - "in original working condition"

Who would possibly notice the huge brazed repair job?

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/tls/d/chas-parker-vise-102/6501587647.html

A little spray paint covers a multitude of sins.

 

[gman007]

I just finished this Reed 106R I got it In a package deal with two busted vises and a nice arbor press. I blasted it Painted it with oil based primer and paint so it has a tough paint on it. My question to you guys would be would it be more desirable if the slide on the dynamic jaw and the pads were bare metal and the rest painted or should I just leave it black. We are using some glass bead media and walnut shells that would give it a nice bare metal look. So what’s all the experts say ? It will be for sale soon just wondering what what may make it more valuable.

MD It is your vise and you can painted anyway you want. My vote would be to leave these parts bare specially if you plan on selling it. These parts were bare when the vise was manufactured and is how most vises are restored.

Now usually the vise is stripped bare and the jaw faces and slide are masked and the rest of the vise is primed and painted.

In your case you have already painted the whole vise and I am not sure how you are going to mask the parts that you want to keep painted so that during bead blasting these parts are not blasted as well as the parts you want bare.