Thinking about installing a short retaining wall... Any tips?

[mroneeyedboh]

I'm thinking about leveling out the yard, it's not that tall and won't have that much added dirt pushing on the wall.

I was wondering if there are any tips you guys recommend. I plan on using 6x6s every 6', 36" down. Backed with 2x12s.

Should I paint the back of the wood with roofing tar? Just leave it so it can breathe? Use pressure treated from 84 versus Home Depot? I'm going to put drain pipe with stone around it the length of the wall...

Anything else, I'd appreciate the help

 

[ItsNemo]

Don't use wood...

 

[Lelandwelds]

Use big deadman, earth screws or stepback. It will fall over if you don't use enough.

Water will destroy it too. Provide French drain to daylight or weep holes

 

[James-W]

Our oldest daughter has a retaining wall in her back yard and it is starting to fall apart. The retaining wall is about 25 feet long and about 4 feet high. She needs the old one torn down and a new one put up and we are debating about doing it ourselves, or hiring it done. I have never worked on a retaining wall so consequently I have no idea what needs to be done. I will be interested in the comments made in this thread.

 

[southalabama]

What they said.

Deadman

French drains.

Don't use wood.

Dad and I built one out of railroad ties. Construction methods were solid. Dead men, French drains. Etx. Now we have rot.

Not all treated wood is ground rated

I'd go back block if I did it again. More expense I know.

Other option and it isn't cheap is steel sheeting or vinyl sheeting that is made for sea walls. We priced it and didn't go further.

 

[RWorth]

How tall is the wall? If you want wood, the GOOD PT holds up very well, I've dug some up in my yard that has been in the ground for 20+ years and is still solid. I've used some of the cheap **** and it doesn't last. If I were to do a wall now, I'd use Block only 'cause I like the look, and it's forever, if you're young enough to be around for awhile.

 

[ConCretin]

Hard to beat precast concrete blocks. Engineered to work, minimal excavation and simple to install. As was mentioned, drainage is vital.

 

[ford33]

OP please provide your location.

Don't use wood.

We have a 200' foot long, 5 foot high, rail road tie retaining wall to replace this year. It will cost $50K+ to replace. It is 30 years old and rotting away. Go concrete block.

The foundation for the wall and providing adequate drainage behind the wall are some key points.

 

[Randy in Maine]

Concrete blocks or pavers designed for it seem to work out best. 2" tire chips work better than the stone shown here as they weigh less (less pressure) and drain better than gravel or stone.

 

[finn]

Use split faced retaining wall blocks.

The heavy ones, with a lip.

Railroad ties rot, and are continuously bulging and coming loose unless you use posts every few feet

 

[mroneeyedboh]

We don't plan on being in the house past 10 years... If I get ground rated PT wood, I don't see how it wouldn't last.. no?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Don't use wood...

Use big deadman, earth screws or stepback. It will fall over if you don't use enough.

The two best pieces of advice ! (Or stated the opposite way, the 2 main reason why retaining walls fail.)

 

[machsnell]

We don't plan on being in the house past 10 years... If I get ground rated PT wood, I don't see how it wouldn't last.. no?

I agree with all the above and I for the most part don't build wood retaining walls however.......

Your plan will work for 10 years if you have good soil. I would shorten the span to 5 feet instead of 6 and make sure you have drainage up to within 6 inches or so of finish grade/top of wall elevation. This will relieve much pressure off of wall; which is what causes majority of failures.





Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Jackfre]

Wood will rot. Maybe it will be ok for 10 yrs...but maybe not. Do you want to deal with that? If you do it out of the concrete blocks, secure and drain it properly the wall becomes a "feature" for the sale of the property. Randy's graphic is excellent, but I would always build in pilasters every 12-15'. On retaining walls I like the belt and suspenders method.

 

[Radix2]

Use any of the retaining wall blocks.

Less work and will last. Adds value to your property.

The pressure treated at the home centers is not rated for serious ground contact, may well not last 10 years.

 

[ddawg16]

Go here for some ideas

https://www.pinterest.com/wwwdreamyardcom/retaining-wall-ideas/?autologin=true

Personally.....railroad ties yells 'cheap'. When you go to sell....the buyers will think 'cheap'.

Do it right....enjoy it....and take advantage of the added resale value

 

[Firstram]

Use block!

I tore down and hauled off 16 tons of railroad tie bulkhead/retaining wall that was rotten and weeping oil into the lake. I cussed the previous owner for more than a few days for building with that nasty ****. This was 2002, I tore out the last of it in 2013 and the landfill now considers it hazardous waste and will not take it.

 

[03ranger]

First do you want to build a “retaining” wall or a” decorative” wall? Why the question? If you build a retaining wall the city/county may want permits. A decorative wall usually can be built to a maximum height of 48 inches from ground level w/o a permit. You can always backfill a decorative wall.

As far as materials, wood will work for a short time depending upon your location as other have expressed, you’ll have issues with either rot or termites.

Block walls works great, however what kind of footings are needed for your soil and climate (your location was not given).

Gravity walls work well (ig: allan block) and are stackable. I would recommend using a materials yard and not a big box store for materials.

I have built walls using all three types of material and would recommend either a Block wall with the correct footings or a Gravity Wall.

 

[larry_g]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185669

In the thread above about retaining walls you can see my solution.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ItsNemo]

We don't plan on being in the house past 10 years... If I get ground rated PT wood, I don't see how it wouldn't last.. no?

It might last 10 years and when you come to sell will be a liability of your property as the new owners will say, oh look, a retaining wall that needs replacing, I want $10-50k off the listing to replace that.

If you do block on the other hand, they'll say, oh look a nice looking solid retaining wall, this guy really took care of the place, let's pay his asking price so nobody else snags it on us.

 

[KELLHAMMER]

ItNemo has the best way That will last and survive freeze- thaw.

regular concrete block: If not designed and built properly CMU wont survive plus it just doesn't look that good

 

[shedfullatools]

If it only needs to be 2-3 feet tall BIG boulders look nice and simply need to be put in place and backfilled. I've done a couple shorter ones this way and they wont move if you make a good level spot for the rocks and get decent landscape rocks

 

[mroneeyedboh]

Thanks guys. the wall wont be seen by the owners of the house, the neighbor will see it.

I understand about the wood not lasting, but a wood wall is going to cost around 2500-3000. Block was quoted more than double that. Here is a crude image of what I want to do.

https://imgur.com/a/1tH96

Images are very crude lol. the soil is very sandy and drains well, the wall will run on the bottom of the edge of the hill as thats the property line. Its not that much soil behind it, but I dont know.

 

[strutaeng]

I've got a similar project in-progress right now. Mine varies from 2 to 3' but only about 50ft long. It is definitely not a DIY project.
I rented a skid-steer to take away about 3 yards of material. Perhaps you won't have to cut the grade, but still will need a footing.

My BIL and I dug a trench by hand. My soil is really rocky and the only way to dig was with a medium-class electric jackhammer. So the base is basically socketed into rock. What a workout! I'm building mine out of concrete 8" thick.

 

[tthornto]

Check with your city/county and see what they require permits for, then build something that doesn't require permits. My county has guidelines for this and even pre approved/engineered designs. Since the neighbor will see it and you won't I'd go with a CMU (cinder block) wall. Possibly in a terraced layout so the 4' high portion is 2 2'high walls. A 2' high wall doesn't have to be a retaining wall, it can be a "seating wall" or a "decorative wall" or a "Landscape planter" depending on your local government, that wording could make a big difference in what is required.

Also be very carefull about drainage. If your lot is like a typical subdivision everything is slopped so all the runoff goes to the street. KEEP IT THAT WAY. Do not change it so the runoff from your property goes onto the neighbors property; If you do, and it causes damage to the neighbors property, you will be liable.

 

[ssdave]

4 foot will fail quickly with your wood design. You'd have to put in deadman, and probably heavier timbers to even stand a chance.

I'd use stack block retaining wall block. Easier to do yourself than the wood you're contemplating, except for the weight. Much more stable. Will add property value or at least keep it neutral, rather than subtracting from it like an obviously made to fail wood wall.

Even a stack block wall will need to have geogrid behind it at the 4 foot height, or a light weight backfill. I personally would collect as much free polystyrene (styrofoam) as I could get and backfill the wall to within 1 foot of the top with it, sift in some sand or peagravel to fill in the spaces in the foam, and then cover that with geotextile and topsoil. You can get a lot of polystyrene free from the local futniture and appliance stores; they throw away a dumpster full of it each week, and most will set aside a large appliance box and throw it in it for you if you reliably pick it up. I've backfilled an entire house on the uphill retaining wall side using this technique; it dramatically lowers the backfill pressure against the wall.

Or, if you don't want to go to the trouble of the foam, just put in a good draintile behinc the wall, backfill it with drain gravel, and put in layers of gravel and geogrid at each block level. That increases the wall strength enough to be able to stand up to 4 or 5 feet. Price out the block at your big box stores in the spring when it's on sale, and it might be competitive with your wood wall at $2500 to $3000 if you do the labor yourself.

 

[Lelandwelds]

Thanks guys. the wall wont be seen by the owners of the house, the neighbor will see it.

I understand about the wood not lasting, but a wood wall is going to cost around 2500-3000. Block was quoted more than double that. Here is a crude image of what I want to do.

https://imgur.com/a/1tH96

Images are very crude lol. the soil is very sandy and drains well, the wall will run on the bottom of the edge of the hill as thats the property line. Its not that much soil behind it, but I dont know.

I have had projects in the past where I wished some said"Buddy, you are f##king up."
.
"Buddy, . . "

This is a big project. It is disruptive. 3/4 or more experienced contractors will do it wrong because it will fail too far down the road. It may take a wall 10 years to finish falling down. It could take a month.

When you sell, some inspector is going to say"Failing wood wall will cost $20k to remove and replace." Buyer will want that amount to come off of sale price. On the plus side, if a block wall fails, you may salvage some of it.

There is an ugly version made with concrete shaped like interlocking cribbing. It will withstand a heavy amount of incompetent contractors bad installation. It has a bunch of stepback.

Serpentine walls resist failure too. So do terraces.

 

[Jackfre]

Oh, and given that this is your wall, you might consider holding it back from the property line so you don't have to have access to the neighbors side or depend upon him to maintain it.

 

[Radix2]

what is the purpose of the re-landscaping? Will the wall provide additional needed yard space? easier to maintain vs the slope?

Any liability for creating a 4 foot high drop-off without a guardrail?

 

[ddawg16]

If I'm understanding this correctly....the OP's yard slopes 'down' towards the neighbor's yard.

If so, I can see the desire to level the yard.

If it was me......unless the neighbor is a real good friend....or is willing to pay for an 'upgraded' look, I'd do cinder block. It will be a lot cheaper than interlocking blocks....and pretty tough and long lasting.

A couple of other things....

Drainage....water drainage is going to be different now....a lot of it will stay in your yard, but where ever it does drain out, you need to make sure it's where you want it to go and does not create issues for the neighbor.

Make damn sure you know where the property line is. If the neighbor is not contributing anything to this...make sure you are on your side of the property line.

Check with the city or county and make sure there are no local rules governing this.
Walls get real expensive when you have to take it down after you put it up.

Have a talk with the neighbor.....maybe he would like his yard to be a little flatter....if so, he might contribute $$.

Regardless, you need to make sure you have an understanding with them because you will need access from their side..

You are going to need a lot of dirt, so plan on having a path for dump trucks.

 

[Radix2]

I don't get where CMUs are going to be less expensive,and I would take a look at exactly what is quoted in a wood wall that is less than half as much - what you list for parts are not adequate at all.

CMU - for a 4 foot retaining wall - need a poured footing, blocks mortared and core filled, should have sleepers at both ends and every 12 or so feet. Requires skilled mason to set block. Can look nice if split faced CMU are used. Has to be the most expensive choice IMO.

Lumber - needs to have real ground contact rated material!!! Most of the cheap stuff simply will not last half buried in the ground. Needs a gravel foundation for drainage, vertical members set in ground and tied back with deadmen into the hill. 2x12s are not going to work for the face - too thin and too flexible, not generally available for real ground contact, you need to use 4x6 minimum - set on the flat.

Wall Blocks - gravel foundation, pick a block rated for your height, will be man carry-able. Once foundation excavated and set, very simple to stack and back fill by basic labor,geo textile where needed for height.

 

[Billy Jack]

I built my own PT wall at my first house and contracted for a replacement stone wall at my current house. The one tip that sticks in my mind is drainage. The rule of thumb I was taught was that the stone / gravel back fill should be half as deep as the wall is tall.

Bill

 

[Lelandwelds]

If I'm understanding this correctly....the OP's yard slopes 'down' towards the neighbor's yard.

If so, I can see the desire to level the yard.

If it was me......unless the neighbor is a real good friend....or is willing to pay for an 'upgraded' look, I'd do cinder block. It will be a lot cheaper than interlocking blocks....and pretty tough and long lasting.

A couple of other things....

Drainage....water drainage is going to be different now....a lot of it will stay in your yard, but where ever it does drain out, you need to make sureh it's where you want it to go and does not create issues for the neighbor.

Make damn sure you know where the property line is. If the neighbor is not contributing anything to this...make sure you are on your side of the property line.

Check with the city or county and make sure there are no local rules governing this.
Walls get real expensive when you have to take it down after you put it up.

Have a talk with the neighbor.....maybe he would like his yard to be a little flatter....if so, he might contribute $$.

Regardless, you need to make sure you have an understanding with them because you will need access from their side..

You are going to need a lot of dirt, so plan on having a path for dump trucks.

Cinder block is not made for side loads. It does fail at a slower rate than rotting wood if you're the lucky sort.

Short cuts here are like cutting corners on slab, electrical, or vehicle maintenance. Expensive and disruptive to fix. You need hunks of concrete or stone that slope backwards and each piece weighs 90 lbs or more.

I have seen curved partial retaining walls with hill on either side. Attractive. Really, photos are needed.

What about runoff into neighbors lot?

 

[gtsgarage]

Concrete link blocks. I did many hundred feet of them and ten years later still look new.

Plus be kind and give your neighbor something moderately attractive to look at.

 

[finn]

Cinder blocks are even worse than wood, possibly.

I ripped out 100’ of failed block a couple of years ago and have another 75’ to do this summer.

The wood wall will topple over into the neighbors yard, just like the one next door to my mom’s house.

You will also need a fence on top of the wall if there isn’ Some sort of natural barrier.

 

[dave_dj1]

PT wood will be fine, I can show you miles of it that are upwards of 50' tall into a bank. They are 20 ish years old and still fine. They are all 6x6 with deadmen/anchors. I've even seen them built at the oceans edge and they hold up fine. Yes, not all PT is created equal. Every pole barn built around these parts have PT posts 4' into the ground and are standing just fine.

 

[ddawg16]

I guess I should have explained that part of the process is to pour a below grade footer....with horz and vert rebar....and as noted above, you use slotted blocks so you can run horz rebar every couple of layers.....and then you fill it with concrete.

It's not going anywhere. The other option is to make forms and pour concrete.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Have a lok at this guy on You Tube,

 

[marineman]

I'm not sure what the other guys are looking at but with the crude picture you posted you're not actually retaining anything as all the native soil has already settled and it's below the level of your wall at the point of your wall. The only thing you'll be retaining is your own backfill. You're making a fence and putting gravel and dirt behind it. I would still use brick for aesthetics but if you're dead set on wood get ground rated and get your drainage right. Don't over complicate it, with good posts I wouldn't worry about deadmen in that wall since you're not really holding anything back

 

[ard]

Thanks guys. the wall wont be seen by the owners of the house, the neighbor will see it.

I understand about the wood not lasting, but a wood wall is going to cost around 2500-3000. Block was quoted more than double that. Here is a crude image of what I want to do.

https://imgur.com/a/1tH96

Images are very crude lol. the soil is very sandy and drains well, the wall will run on the bottom of the edge of the hill as thats the property line. Its not that much soil behind it, but I dont know.

Ive laid about 200 pallets of retaining wall blocks here. A superior solution

Looking at your drawing, you need approx 360 blocks (assuming these are 6" tall, 16" long, and you will lay one course under the grade. Staring at 2 courses above grade, (12 inches) ending at 8 courses (48").

Homedepot has these at $3.88 each. tax, title, shipping. $1700.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pavesto...Concrete-Retaining-Wall-Block-82105/202188823

Couple of yards of drain rock. landscape fabric- which you need for a wood one too

Some crushed rock as the base.


You doing this or paying someone????