Import Tariffs on Chinese Goods

[finn]

Let’s try to keep politics out of this, but the list of 1900 items on the list subject to tariffs has been published.

I scanned the list, and, in addition to many drugs and medical devices, that may affect me, personally,there are a lot of items of interest in the tool area.

Namely, metal working equipment, both pneumatic and electric, (think angle grinders), generators of various sizes, welding equipment, hydraulic presses, snowblower, lots of electronics, and more.

This is going to be tough on outfits like Eastwood and HF.

 

[Michael_in_DE]

I'm not a fan of his. And maybe I am not smart enough to understand the intricacies of of complicated trade and multi-country economics, but I a like the idea behind the move. I am hoping it continues and allows US companies to be able to compete and flourish, maybe even hire a few people.

I have no doubt the things we are after will jump in price. I just hope it helps Americans by way of more jobs, rather than this whole thing blows over in a few months and they leave the high prices where they end up.

 

[LawnBoy-5247]

The sad reality is that while tariffs sound great they rarely help, even the basic economics classes I have taken mention this. They generally end up hurting both the consumer and producer economically.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

 

[Wamsutta]

What's the tariff percentage going to be on things like hand tools?

 

[Copymutt]

I obviously am not versed on how to make the best of international buy, sell arrangements bastardized by politics.
However, I find it amazing that the number one retaliation China will invoke is on US pork. We all know that a strength of the Chinese is to at a minimum emulate or if easier steal other countries technology.
So, adding tariff to our pork means that we can produce and ship pork to China at less cost than the Chinese can raise it themselves?
What am I missing? What did they miss out on in that industry?
Jim

 

[ssdave]

I obviously am not versed on how to make the best of international buy, sell arrangements bastardized by politics.
However, I find it amazing that the number one retaliation China will invoke is on US pork. We all know that a strength of the Chinese is to at a minimum emulate or if easier steal other countries technology.
So, adding tariff to our pork means that we can produce and ship pork to China at less cost than the Chinese can raise it themselves?
What am I missing? What did they miss out on in that industry?
Jim

Midwest Agriculture. Corn. Cheap enough to produce that you can ferment it and use the alcohol in gasoline. Or feed pigs.

 

[Farmall450]

I obviously am not versed on how to make the best of international buy, sell arrangements bastardized by politics.
However, I find it amazing that the number one retaliation China will invoke is on US pork. We all know that a strength of the Chinese is to at a minimum emulate or if easier steal other countries technology.
So, adding tariff to our pork means that we can produce and ship pork to China at less cost than the Chinese can raise it themselves?
What am I missing? What did they miss out on in that industry?
Jim

Maybe they're just lacking in space? idk, we import some meat too, which is odd. Maybe we will be exporting them clean water in a few years.

 

[Jessie0687]

I'm not a fan of his. And maybe I am not smart enough to understand the intricacies of of complicated trade and multi-country economics, but I a like the idea behind the move. I am hoping it continues and allows US companies to be able to compete and flourish, maybe even hire a few people.

I have no doubt the things we are after will jump in price. I just hope it helps Americans by way of more jobs, rather than this whole thing blows over in a few months and they leave the high prices where they end up.

It's not a good thing. Tariff wars are never a good thing - no economist agrees with tariffs wars, it's nothing more than an additional tax passed down onto the consumer. There are no benefits its incredibly short sighted and foolish means of international trade

 

[Old Man Roger]

Maybe they're just lacking in space? idk, we import some meat too, which is odd. Maybe we will be exporting them clean water in a few years.

We import meat from China? That's the scariest thing I ever heard

 

[K13]

I obviously am not versed on how to make the best of international buy, sell arrangements bastardized by politics.
However, I find it amazing that the number one retaliation China will invoke is on US pork. We all know that a strength of the Chinese is to at a minimum emulate or if easier steal other countries technology.
So, adding tariff to our pork means that we can produce and ship pork to China at less cost than the Chinese can raise it themselves?
What am I missing? What did they miss out on in that industry?
Jim

Adding a tariff increases the price of a product being brought into a country so adding a 25% tariff to U.S. Pork means it will cost 25% more to bring U.S. pork into China. U.S. Pork will cost more not less. China currently buys about $1.1 Billion of Pork annually from the U.S. so it will hurt U.S. pork producers because they won't be able to compete price wise with other producers around the world for China's business. It will probably drive the price up in the U.S. as well because they have to make up the lost money somewhere.

 

[nmantas]

We import meat from China? That's the scariest thing I ever heard

We import a lot of seafood but the meat mentioned was exported to China. The seafood we import a lot of bottom feeders like shrimp...thank goodness they are so environmentally conscious that the bottoms of their sea are so clean. Was looking at some Scooby Doo dummies last week at Dollar Tree for my kids Easter basket.....had to put them back when I saw they too were made in China.

 

[Wamsutta]

The last time I remember having import tariffs in this country was when we had tariffs on goods from West Germany.

 

[Old Man Roger]

We import a lot of seafood but the meat mentioned was exported to China. The seafood we import a lot of bottom feeders like shrimp...thank goodness they are so environmentally conscious that the bottoms of their sea are so clean. Was looking at some Scooby Doo dummies last week at Dollar Tree for my kids Easter basket.....had to put them back when I saw they too were made in China.

For some reason I always thought it was illegal to import food from China. I still think it should be..lol

The last time I remember having import tariffs in this country was when we had tariffs on goods from West Germany.

I remember Reagan taxed Japanese large cc motorcycles.

 

[Farmall450]

We import meat from China? That's the scariest thing I ever heard

Yes. Besides mentioned below, also chicken, both cooked and uncooked.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Yes. Besides mentioned below, also chicken, both cooked and uncooked.

OH GOD!

 

[finn]

For some reason I always thought it was illegal to import food from China. I still think it should be..lol

I remember Reagan taxed Japanese large cc motorcycles.

Look at the packaging on frozen seafood. Almost all of it is packaged in China.

But the thread isn’t meant to discuss the tariff virtues, or lack there of.

Let’s stick to the impact of tariffs on the cost and future availability of tools commonly imported.

What will happen when, for example, the price of the new HF power tools or the hydraulic press goes up 25%? Is that enough to make you switch from Milwaukee to, say, Dewalt?

Is HF & Eastwood’s business model sound enough to absorb a 25% price ( or cost) increase?

Will you still buy Milwaukee if they pass through the increases?

 

[joeswamp]

I obviously am not versed on how to make the best of international buy, sell arrangements bastardized by politics.
However, I find it amazing that the number one retaliation China will invoke is on US pork. We all know that a strength of the Chinese is to at a minimum emulate or if easier steal other countries technology.
So, adding tariff to our pork means that we can produce and ship pork to China at less cost than the Chinese can raise it themselves?
What am I missing? What did they miss out on in that industry?
Jim

Agricultural productivity in the USA is amazing, way higher than anywhere else. The tee shirt you're wearing was assembled in central america and woven in China, but the cotton was almost certainly grown in the USA, at a farm that would probably take 100x the labor in China.

I heard some pig farming expert saying that the pork tariffs are going to be challenging because the Chinese like to eat parts of the pig that few people eat in the USA. Get ready for a surplus of pig tongues, stomachs, and who knows what else...

 

[Old Man Roger]

Look at the packaging on frozen seafood. Almost all of it is packaged in China.

Tin foil hat moment! I've heard 1 in 68 kids born today will be on the Autism spectrum. I would love to see the correlation of imported Chinese products and the rise of Autism rates.

 

[Wamsutta]

1 Chinese Yuan equals
0.16 US Dollar

That's kind of the problem right there.

 

[K13]

Look at the packaging on frozen seafood. Almost all of it is packaged in China.

But the thread isn’t meant to discuss the tariff virtues, or lack there of.

Let’s stick to the impact of tariffs on the cost and future availability of tools commonly imported.

What will happen when, for example, the price of the new HF power tools or the hydraulic press goes up 25%? Is that enough to make you switch from Milwaukee to, say, Dewalt?

Is HF & Eastwood’s business model sound enough to absorb a 25% price ( or cost) increase?

Will you still buy Milwaukee if they pass through the increases?

For established company's none are taking a 25% hit in their profit margin. The increases will all be passed on. Big companies would rather see decreases in sales than hits to their profit margins as long as they come out even in the end.

 

[Old Man Roger]

I'm no expert, but it seems to me, that we should tax their imports as much as they tax ours.

 

[Nick Danger]

It's easy to impose tariffs, but it's very hard to back them off again.

Look up the 1963 chicken tax. Ford has to import Transit vans as "passenger vehicles", and then rips out the interior seats and throws them away once they reach US shores. Everyone who drives a Transit paid for those seats.

 

[guy48065]

Smithfield is Chinese-owned so they just taxed one of their largest imports. Seems logical.

Since China owns many more exporters in America than vice-versa, their retaliation doesn't make much sense.

 

[DadsTools]

The problem with sorting this all out is that there are no doubt all kinds of deals being worked in the background with trade of all kinds for various motives of which the general public has no knowledge. If we did, we'd likely say, "Oh....so THAT'S why we're doing it like this!"

I'm confident that when our Pres says something critical of, let's say Putin in a speech, our diplomats call their diplomats and say, "Hey, we have to say such-and-such a thing in this upcoming press conference because of such-and-such a reason or for such-and-such a group." Then the other side replies, "OK, thanks for letting us know. Now you know we're going to have to say such-and-such and thing in retort because of such-and-such a reason." Yes, we understand." "OK?" "OK." It's all been hashed out before we ever hear it.

Before the era of substantially taxing your own citizens picked up steam in the early 20th century, this country's operating revenue was derived primarily from tariffs.

I believe the USA is still the largest consumer of imports in the world. That's a lot of power. China can't simply sell their goods to someone else as compensation. First, they're probably already doing that. Second, none of these other countries combined could make up for the revenue coming from the USA. Look, our people know this and have researched all this.

A lot of this has to do with the production of wealth, which I've written about at length on other threads. If the USA wants to produce real wealth (not just print Federal Reserve Notes), it has to harness and develop products on its own soil--it has to manufacture. But you can't do this against a competitor who pays labor like $5 a month and has government assistance with things like materials and machinery. Tariffs are the only way to help level what is now a hopelessly lopsided trade environment. Whatever you think of Trump, he is indeed one of the most knowledgeable persons with regard to business and trade who ever held the office. He knows what the dealings are behind the scenes.

Yes, and things might change at the store. Some things we may have to go back to the old mentality of buying quality as an investment and caring for it instead of throwing everything away. We may only own ten pairs of shoes instead of 25. We may not be able to walk into HF and by complete wrench sets for stupid low money. We may have to revert back on some level to the old traditional USA consumer mentality. That may not be such a bad thing. Maybe we'll have to give things more thought when we buy. Remember, it was the American consumer responding to the flooding of cheap Asian imports with, "Yeah! Yeah! Gimme! Gimme! More! More!" that devastated the American mfrs starting in the late 1950s and reaching huge proportions by the late 1960s.

Sure, some US producers will be harmed. But wait....where have you been? Hasn't that already happened in spades? China has been kicking USA producers' butts and wiping the floor with them for decades. Maybe it's time Uncle Sucker fought back a little.

 

[K13]

I'm no expert, but it seems to me, that we should tax their imports as much as they tax ours.

That's what started this whole thing. The U.S. taxing foreign steel and aluminum.

 

[Old Man Roger]

That's what started this whole thing. The U.S. taxing foreign steel and aluminum.

My point was, shouldn't we be taxing more Chinese imports?

 

[Ji m]

We import meat from China? That's the scariest thing I ever heard

Lots and lots of Farm Fish comes from China (good reminder to read those labels!).

A Chinese fish farm was described to me as basically a cess pool with just enough fish eggs, chemicals and whatever passes as fish food dropped inside to keep the fish alive long enough to be grow a bit, be plucked out, flash frozen and to shipped to the USA.

No thank you.

 

[K13]

My point was, shouldn't we be taxing more Chinese imports?

You are going to be that's the whole point of this thread.

 

[Old Man Roger]

Lots and lots of Farm Fish comes from China (good reminder to read those labels!).

A Chinese fish farm was described to me as basically a cess pool with just enough fish eggs, chemicals and whatever passes as fish food dropped inside to keep the fish alive long enough to be grow a bit, be plucked out, flash frozen and to shipped to the USA.

No thank you.

Exactly what I imagine.

 

[6PTsocket]

Just was watching Motor Week. The mid size Buick SUV is made in.......drum roll please. CHINA!! That is the first that I know of but it probably won't be the last.
This is what they bailed GM out for?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Old Man Roger]

Just was watching Motor Week. The mid size Buick SUV is made in.......drum roll please. CHINA!! That is the first that I know of but it probably won't be the last.
This is what they bailed GM out for?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Maybe it will be more affordable to build here now?

 

[Old Man Roger]

Seems like we shoot ourselves in the foot. Remember the vouchers, for trading in your gas guzzler? Why didn't we require they be used on American cars?

I know the term ''American Cars'' is much more convoluted now, but that seems kind of the symptom of not having equal trade tariffs? No?

 

[Ji m]

Smithfield is Chinese-owned so they just taxed one of their largest imports. Seems logical.

Since China owns many more exporters in America than vice-versa, their retaliation doesn't make much sense.

^I was going to post this (about Smithfield),
China had bought the manufacturer to cut down on their own cost to import US hogs,
raising an import tax on themselves like this can only be to "save face" and show some kind of retailiation.


FWIW,
The Tire Tarriff of a few years back shows what China can and can't do as far as real world retailiation.


Next time a brand new Chinese trailer tire explodes on anyone here,
be thankful they drew the line in the sand on China dumping trailer tires here,
and not passenger car and truck tires.

 

[K13]

^I was going to post this (about Smithfield),
China had bought the manufacturer to cut down on their own cost to import US hogs,
raising an import tax on themselves like this can only be to "save face" and show some kind of retailiation.

China only makes up 5-7% of their export market so pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

Before the tariffs came into force, Smithfield CEO Kenneth Sullivan said he thought investors had overreacted to the news.

"We export to 40 countries around the world," he said last week. While admitting that the measures "will cut into our profits," Sullivan said exports to China only made up between 5% and 7% of Smithfield's fresh pork business.

 

[tonyciambrone]

Free trade is something that only exists in economics classrooms. Economics especially at the low level is taught almost entirely from principle and theory. .

We have never had the "free trade" that economists speak of with anyone. There are "free trade agreements" that outline the restrictions and tariffs, set limits boundaries, duties, regulations etc etc.

I want to return to the days of heavy duty, serviceable, rebuildable products that you bought once in a lifetime. Not saying this is exactly how we get there, but the "free trade" import everything mentality is not helping.

I have a working 1939 General Electric Refrigerator. Show me a 2018 Refrigerator running in 2097. I strongly doubt it.

 

[Ji m]

China only makes up 5-7% of their export market so pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

Before the tariffs came into force, Smithfield CEO Kenneth Sullivan said he thought investors had overreacted to the news.

"We export to 40 countries around the world," he said last week. While admitting that the measures "will cut into our profits," Sullivan said exports to China only made up between 5% and 7% of Smithfield's fresh pork business.

The article I read said there was an additve/growth promoter used on hogs for Domestic US consumption that was not allowed in China,

and that was the main limiting factor that had to be overcome before Chinese imports could substantially rise.

The last quoted stipulation:
"Sullivan said exports to China only made up between 5% and 7% of Smithfield's fresh pork business"
makes me wonder if the percentage changes when they include the cooked & cured (non-fresh) pork
^corporate doublespeak is a language all it's own

 

[Old Man Roger]

Free trade is something that only exists in economics classrooms. Economics especially at the low level is taught almost entirely from principle and theory. .

We have never had the "free trade" that economists speak of with anyone. There are "free trade agreements" that outline the restrictions and tariffs, set limits boundaries, duties, regulations etc etc.

I want to return to the days of heavy duty, serviceable, rebuildable products that you bought once in a lifetime. Not saying this is exactly how we get there, but the "free trade" import everything mentality is not helping.

I have a working 1939 General Electric Refrigerator. Show me a 2018 Refrigerator running in 2097. I strongly doubt it.

My working lathe was made in the 1890's and upgraded to electric motor in 1914.

 

[anndel]

I obviously am not versed on how to make the best of international buy, sell arrangements bastardized by politics.
However, I find it amazing that the number one retaliation China will invoke is on US pork. We all know that a strength of the Chinese is to at a minimum emulate or if easier steal other countries technology.
So, adding tariff to our pork means that we can produce and ship pork to China at less cost than the Chinese can raise it themselves?
What am I missing? What did they miss out on in that industry?
Jim

Hmm, pork but didn't china buy the largest pork producer in the US a couple years back?

 

[Ji m]

Free trade is something that only exists in economics classrooms. Economics especially at the low level is taught almost entirely from principle and theory. .

We have never had the "free trade" that economists speak of with anyone. There are "free trade agreements" that outline the restrictions and tariffs, set limits boundaries, duties, regulations etc etc.

I want to return to the days of heavy duty, serviceable, rebuildable products that you bought once in a lifetime. Not saying this is exactly how we get there, but the "free trade" import everything mentality is not helping.

I have a working 1939 General Electric Refrigerator. Show me a 2018 Refrigerator running in 2097. I strongly doubt it.

Both great points!

Just like medicine today is about treatments, not cures (what was the last thing that was actually "cured"? Rabies?)
No one wants to sell just one single "durable good",
so we have fragile equipment sold as "new and improved".

Failure isn't a problem,
it's a Feature!

As far as free trade goes,
if you have a country that can act like the worlds largest corporation,
spreading subsidies to whichever market it wishes to conquer,
you can not have free trade on any level.

 

[aka Larry]

It's easy to impose tariffs, but it's very hard to back them off again.

Look up the 1963 chicken tax. Ford has to import Transit vans as "passenger vehicles", and then rips out the interior seats and throws them away once they reach US shores. Everyone who drives a Transit paid for those seats.

Thanks for the link. That was an interesting read. It seems every rule seems to have an exception and/or work around.