Is Harbor Freight getting too big for its britches?

[Mechanical Noise]

Craftsman tools never even came close to tool truck prices

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I think the list prices for Craftsman Industrial approached tool truck prices. I bought some Craftsman Industrial tools, not at list price but for cheap at the Sears Outlet store. Sears Outlet prices were in line with what sale prices were for similar Craftsman tools.

Even bought for cheap they were nothing special. Aside from the name stamped on the tool, they were indistinguishable from regular Craftsman.

 

[L5wolvesf]

Wow!, the prices at Harbor freight are going up?

Shop much anywhere else? I paid $20 for a ****** screen door closer at a mom and pop hardware store and GF paid almost 8 dollars for a small "smoothie" at some lame-*** chain. She paid almost 5 dollars for a head of cauliflower at the grocery store!

Along with our "new Prosperity" and the helpful Tarrifs, we also get prices going up everywhere big time.

BTW harbor freight did not kill sears.

Sears killed Sears

At least Harbor freight, has something more to offer to go along with their price increases

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This is a significant piece of the puzzle.

 

[Bockscar]

I think the list prices for Craftsman Industrial approached tool truck prices. I bought some Craftsman Industrial tools, not at list price but for cheap at the Sears Outlet store. Sears Outlet prices were in line with what sale prices were for similar Craftsman tools.

Even bought for cheap they were nothing special. Aside from the name stamped on the tool, they were indistinguishable from regular Craftsman.

My craftsman pro series wrenches didn't cost anymore than 90 bucks...not even close to any tool truck but preform as good as any tool out there

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[bubinga]

I wouldn't hire a pro who buys tools at HF.
even I prefer to avoid their junk.

A good Craftsman/mechanic does not blame his tools.
A $500 HF Box will hold tools just as well as A $5,000 Snap On bx.

 

[jonesg]

A good Craftsman/mechanic does not blame his tools.
A $500 HF Box will hold tools just as well as A $5,000 Snap On bx.

Skilled tradesmen don't use junk tools.
There's a reason they pay 5k for toolboxes.

 

[DTuck]

Skilled tradesmen don't use junk tools.
There's a reason they pay 5k for toolboxes.

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. It's all based on people's needs and financial means. A $5k toolbox does NOT make someone a better mechanic or skilled craftsman.

 

[Ronson25]

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. It's all based on people's needs and financial means. A $5k toolbox does NOT make someone a better mechanic or skilled craftsman.

No but proves he might not be skilled enough to rake in the cash for one or have the sustainable Client base to afford one.

 

[Mechanical Noise]

My craftsman pro series wrenches didn't cost anymore than 90 bucks...not even close to any tool truck but preform as good as any tool out there

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If you're looking for a Craftsman Industrial ratchet, you're still in luck!

https://www.travers.com/12-drive-ratchet/p/99-013-776/

MSRP $138.13, now only $106.29!

I thought all the Craftsman Industrial stuff was clearanced out ages ago, but here's a hanger-on .

 

[Mgdoug3]

I'm a farmer, not a mechanic but there's a lot of similarities. Some people think you can only farm with new equipment and then there's the 75 year old man in bibs and drives around in a 25 year old truck. The old man doesn't have any debt, all land is free and clear, doesn't use a line of credit. I would much rather be the old man than the 35 year old with sky high debt wondering how he's going to pay his bills after every harvest.

Tools and equipment do not make a mechanic or a farmer. There's people with Snap On tools that can't hardly change a tire and also people with lowly HF or craftsman tools that have forgotten more knowledge than I will ever know. I use HF at times. I stick to my SK ratchets but when I'm in the field, which socket would I rather lose? A Snap on or HF?

 

[DTuck]

No but proves he might be skilled enough to rake in the cash for one or have the sustainable Client base to afford one.

Haha or they realize they could put the other $4000 towards tools. That's the option I would opt for.

 

[DTuck]

I'm a farmer, not a mechanic but there's a lot of similarities. Some people think you can only farm with new equipment and then there's the 75 year old man in bibs and drives around in a 25 year old truck. The old man doesn't have any debt, all land is free and clear, doesn't use a line of credit. I would much rather be the old man than the 35 year old with sky high debt wondering how he's going to pay his bills after every harvest.

Tools and equipment do not make a mechanic or a farmer. There's people with Snap On tools that can't hardly change a tire and also people with lowly HF or craftsman tools that have forgotten more knowledge than I will ever know. I use HF at times. I stick to my SK ratchets but when I'm in the field, which socket would I rather lose? A Snap on or HF?

x87. Well said.

 

[KWtech90]

A good Craftsman/mechanic does not blame his tools.
A $500 HF Box will hold tools just as well as A $5,000 Snap On bx.

My $200 hf cart fell apart after a little over 6 months. I promptly upgraded to a krsc46 snap on and after 2 years and with roughly double the tools inside it functions like new. While it's true that not everybody needs good tools to get by, some of us professionals do. When was the last time you saw an industrial electrician use a HF free multimeter? How about a contractor using black and decker power tools? At the end of the day snap on's slogan is true. There is a difference.

 

[KWtech90]

I'm a farmer, not a mechanic but there's a lot of similarities. Some people think you can only farm with new equipment and then there's the 75 year old man in bibs and drives around in a 25 year old truck. The old man doesn't have any debt, all land is free and clear, doesn't use a line of credit. I would much rather be the old man than the 35 year old with sky high debt wondering how he's going to pay his bills after every harvest.

Tools and equipment do not make a mechanic or a farmer. There's people with Snap On tools that can't hardly change a tire and also people with lowly HF or craftsman tools that have forgotten more knowledge than I will ever know. I use HF at times. I stick to my SK ratchets but when I'm in the field, which socket would I rather lose? A Snap on or HF?

I can count on one hand the amount of sockets I have lost in my 7 years as a mechanic. Losing tools does happen especially working around others, but it's sloppy and unprofessional. The real question is when you're in the middle of the field in 110 degree heat doing what you must which socket would you rather depend on? I for one just don't have enough faith in HF tools to leave the shop with them. That is exactly why brands like knipex, wera, mayhew, and estwing exist.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I agree there is a difference in quality. I have a HF ball joint press. It is good for me to do my own vehicles but no way it would last in a shop. For $60 it saves me money instead of taking it to a shop. For using it twice a year at most I can't justify a Snap On one.

My gripe was about the people determining someone's skill based off their tools. While in some cases it's true, a lot of time it's not.

 

[Mgdoug3]

I can count on one hand the amount of sockets I have lost in my 7 years as a mechanic. Losing tools does happen especially working around others, but it's sloppy and unprofessional. The real question is when you're in the middle of the field in 110 degree heat doing what you must which socket would you rather depend on? I for one just don't have enough faith in HF tools to leave the shop with them. That is exactly why brands like knipex, wera, mayhew, and estwing exist.

I don't use HF ratchets. Not because of quality but my SK's just feel good to me. I have not broke a HF socket yet but I only buy 6 points. If it's a tight bolt, I use a 1/2 drive socket. Space is usually not a problem for me, a luxury most mechanics don't have on smaller and newer vehicles. I don't have to try 3/8 drive sockets to do 1/2 jobs so quality isn't as important.

There are times when my dad borrows my tools. I keep everything organized. Him, not so much. I would rather him lose my cheap sockets than my good ones. (I do though hide my good tools sometimes from him.)

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Haha or they realize they could put the other $4000 towards tools. That's the option I would opt for.

Not to further derail the thread, but most "non truck" boxes would have their drawers fail with the load I keep in my drawers. I counted my wrenches the other day for fun, without crows feet (probably 70) or hex wrenches (4 or 5 bondhus/ekland holders), 245. Start filling up drawers of a HF 44 (organized, not just dumped in) and see how much space you eat up. All my stuff is staggered, laid in backwards, anything to save an inch of space.

Plus most of the cheap stuff is 20inches deep, and the drawers don't pull out flush, have mediocre drawer layout, etc.



YES, list on truck boxes is ridiculous. Most people get around 50% off, and yes, there is about $500-1000 in vanity factor. YES, there is a time and place for "normal" boxes. A HF box would make a fantastic home box for me. That said, there is a time and place for "truck" boxes. Until you work out of them every day, and have stupid levels of tools and equipment, making a living with them; most people truly don't understand.

 

[shanny19]

Skilled tradesmen don't use junk tools.
There's a reason they pay 5k for toolboxes.

And a few ignore lists won’t go snackless today.

 

[mudflap]

Yep, kill off you competition with low prices, then jack them up, has been around for years.

Yep..China did that with magnets..textbook example.. Sold very high quality magnets for almost nothing until all the competition went broke. Now they can, and are, charging anything they want.

 

[Wamsutta]

Let me start by saying I love HF as much as the next guy. I have bought plenty of **** from them over the years and a lot of it has been good at a great price and a fair amount has been, well, just ****.


What I would like some thoughts on is do you guys think HF is getting a little too cocky? They have certainly upped their game in many respects, but I am most concerned about the drastic increase in prices across the board. It seems like even things that haven’t been improved are much more expensive now than it ever was in the past. Sure, inflation causes increases in price, as does foreign policy, but not to the extent we are seeing, I don’t think.

I’ll admit, I have a metric ****-ton of Snappy tools, some that I have paid dearly for, but HF has always been the brand that occupies the “get the job done for the least amount of investment” brand space. It seems like they are moving away from that model on a lot of their offerings. They may still be cheapest, but not by as much as they use to be. It is often to the point where, for a marginal increase in your investment, a much better tool can be bought. It reminds me of Craftsman back in the day. Craftsman went from being good tools at cheapish prices to good tools at damn-near tool truck prices, to eventually ****** tools at damn-near tool truck prices. Demand fell off and HF occupied the void and capitalized on it to become the powerhouse it is today. Do you think HF is making this same mistake? Why or why not?

I say all of this and ask these questions out of concern that HF stays around and stays healthy. As much as I appreciate the really nice tools I have, I also really appreciate the cheap tools that have allowed me to do things I otherwise couldn’t afford. I owe this to HF and other inexpensive tool companies and hope they will not follow the same dark road others have in the past.

I look forward to your thoughts on this!

This thread isn't worth 5 pages for the reasons I highlighted above.

I think the OP might be AvE from YouTube.

 

[Revere Cycles]

I wouldn't hire a pro who buys tools at HF.
even I prefer to avoid their junk.

I don't buy everything from HF, but as an educated consumer and trade professional, there are a lot of areas where HF is better than Lowes or Home Depot. The Diablo air hose they sell is identical to the Husky hose at Home Depot (same manufacturer). Guess what? Last I checked, it cost about $10 less at HF for the same length, and with a coupon, I could take another 20% off. Win to HF.

I had a HF cement mixer for about a year. I mixed around 1,200 bags of mortar in it until the plow guy ran over it in the winter. Since I needed another mixer for my spring season, I bought a Kobalt cement mixer based on several positive reviews.

I'll be honest, the Kobalt is a nice unit in terms of build quality, but in practice, it has many shortcomings, including not being able to pour it directly into your standard Jackson wheelbarrow (blue one, professional line). To get around this, I need to make sure I have a pallet with me on site to place the mixer on. Very inconvenient, IMHO. The other downside is that I can mix two bags of mortar twice as fast in the HF mixer. I thought the Kobalt would be an upgrade, but it is actually less efficient to use and has a larger footprint which makes storing a pain. The HF model cost $219, vs $279 for the Kobalt.

 

[WittHay]

I don't really see a lot of price increases, and if anything they are improved products.
Was pretty skeptical about those vulcan welders, but AvE just did a video on one and said it's pretty good for the money.

but on average I would say harbor freight has been improving in quality with their higher lines while still offering bottom of the barrel junk to those that would like it at a cheap price

I agree with you, HF prices still seem very reasonable to me. The two nationwide tool discount chains up here have had lower end and mid range quality house brands for years already. HF is just starting to do this in the last couple of years. The way their new brands are marketed and their warranty is about polar opposite from the Canadian stores though.

Its seems Ave crossed the border and went down to the ole Hazard Fraud Tool Company and bought himself a Vulcan welder. He tore that sucker apart and found that there wasn't anything too janky about it. He said if your careful with it, as in don't yank on the knobs too hard should be good enough for home gamer use

 

[bubinga]

Skilled tradesmen don't use junk tools.
There's a reason they pay 5k for toolboxes.

Yeah Whatever.
In the case of a tool box, the "good reason" is More money than brains,
IMO.






Ratchets etc, sockets, wrench, etc, may be a different story.

 

[Yarpo]

Skilled tradesmen don't use junk tools.
There's a reason they pay 5k for toolboxes.

****, the more job sites I end up on and the more garages I enter, I realize this is simply not true. People are smart, skilled tradesmen are smart, and with a few seconds of research (reviews/youtube) can ascertain whether or not said junk tool will meet their needs. They're skilled tradesmen in their respective field, they very well know if a set of HF impacts will meet their needs instead of Snap ons, or if they need a fluke multi meter instead of a HF one.

If you're installing toilets and need a hollow shaft nut driver do you think said tradesmen can get by with any hollow shaft nut driver or does it need to be snap on?

 

[bubinga]

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. It's all based on people's needs and financial means. A $5k toolbox does NOT make someone a better mechanic or skilled craftsman.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS...............................
It Holds Tools

 

[bubinga]

Haha or they realize they could put the other $4000 towards tools. That's the option I would opt for.

Yes,

 

[bubinga]

x87. Well said.

I agree there is a difference in quality. I have a HF ball joint press. It is good for me to do my own vehicles but no way it would last in a shop. For $60 it saves me money instead of taking it to a shop. For using it twice a year at most I can't justify a Snap On one.

My gripe was about the people determining someone's skill based off their tools. While in some cases it's true, a lot of time it's not.

Exactly.
that Guy is a snob.

 

[xin]

Trinkets from CHINA - Nothing new here

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Seems to be some broad painting done by people who lack experience in the picture they are trying to paint. To add to their confusion; some of Us Pros have both HF and Snap-on tools and boxes.. At times; the cheap boxes are ok to park in a dedicated spot, and fill with special tools that don't see everyday use. The Good boxes earn their keep by holding the most used tools, and get moved often. Some use service carts for this purpose. but-but-but; not everyone has all these multi ton tool accumulations, nor the need for super strength quality boxes to hold them.. I am sure this part of the picture could be done in polka-dots.. Now for the tools. Go ahead and try some of the cheap stuff.. They will either be weeded out under repeated use, fail the first time, or simply be disgusting to use. If not, they might be kept for a specific purpose. Some of the cheap tools are compared to other cheap, crappy, or flat out worn out tools. So, the conclusion is that a recently purchased bargain tool rivals all the competition, including Snap-on.

Third twist: some people chose to not spend the money for quality tools for every task they do. The budget stuff gets the job done, whether they are Pros or Harry Homeowners.

Others, whether Pros or Harry Homeowners, despise the sight of cheap tools or tool boxes.

Paint this part in stripes.. Be sure to put lots of thought, planning, and detail in the picture You paint.. I look forward to the reviews of Your Masterpiece.

 

[zendriver]

I'm a farmer, not a mechanic but there's a lot of similarities. Some people think you can only farm with new equipment and then there's the 75 year old man in bibs and drives around in a 25 year old truck. The old man doesn't have any debt, all land is free and clear, doesn't use a line of credit. I would much rather be the old man than the 35 year old with sky high debt wondering how he's going to pay his bills after every harvest.

Tools and equipment do not make a mechanic or a farmer. There's people with Snap On tools that can't hardly change a tire and also people with lowly HF or craftsman tools that have forgotten more knowledge than I will ever know. I use HF at times. I stick to my SK ratchets but when I'm in the field, which socket would I rather lose? A Snap on or HF?

My Dad was a cheapskate farmer as well and although he owned a service station, he would have not been caught dead, owing a nickel to the Snap-On man, as he only purchased a few of the "whatever" tools, NAPA had, never needing a tool box much bigger that could be carried with one strong arm.

He believed in the value of farmland, which was where he put his limited money, so when he passed, I was not hurt in the least, that there was not a big red box of rusting tools, to split with 7 siblings and when my mom passed, since I really like tools - but the apple did not fall far from the tree, I headed for Harbor Freight and Edward Jones.

Thanks, Mom and Dad, for the lesson, in economics.

 

[kctyphoon]

Skilled tradesmen don't use junk tools.
There's a reason they pay 5k for toolboxes.

Part of the reason for that is brand stigma overlapping into how good or bad a person's skills are. Plus the heckling that goes on at work to try and justify spending absorptive amounts of cash on a tool box. A tool box is not always a refelction of skill, although I'll conceced that much of sociecty judges expensive tools as the owner being a better mechanic, although that is completely unfair and inaccurate these days.

Long time ago someone told me the word "Professional" just means you get paid for what you do - it doesnt mean you are any good at it.. it's very easy to make alot of money from people that put their trust into someone that can easily take advantage of some else's ignorance. Owning an expensive box is not a huge accomplishment in some fields. A person can be more skilled, and also more honest - thereby making less money to throw into a luxury item such as a tool box.

 

[bubinga]

Part of the reason for that is brand stigma overlapping into how good or bad a person's skills are. Plus the heckling that goes on at work to try and justify spending absorptive amounts of cash on a tool box. A tool box is not always a refelction of skill, although I'll conceced that much of sociecty judges expensive tools as the owner being a better mechanic, although that is completely unfair and inaccurate these days.

Long time ago someone told me the word "Professional" just means you get paid for what you do - it doesnt mean you are any good at it.. it's very easy to make alot of money from people that put their trust into someone that can easily take advantage of some else's ignorance. Owning an expensive box is not a huge accomplishment in some fields. A person can be more skilled, and also more honest - thereby making less money to throw into a luxury item such as a tool box.

Well said!

 

[jkesselr]

This thread isn't worth 5 pages for the reasons I highlighted above.

I think the OP might be AvE from YouTube.

Not quite, bucky!

 

[Coach James]

When I go to auto shops, I try to get a look at what boxes are in the bays. Their is one next to the dojo my wife and son go to. As I passed it recently, walking to the drug store, I looked in and saw 1 Snap On box, 1 box I saw no name on and 3 Husky boxes. The SO box I expected, but was surprised to see the Husky ones.

Coach

 

[seanb02]

When I go to auto shops, I try to get a look at what boxes are in the bays. Their is one next to the dojo my wife and son go to. As I passed it recently, walking to the drug store, I looked in and saw 1 Snap On box, 1 box I saw no name on and 3 Husky boxes. The SO box I expected, but was surprised to see the Husky ones.

Coach

I don't know about auto shops those ones being able to hold up long term. But I just recently put a Husky in the farm shop. Not the typical gloss black finish ones, but the matte black crinkle finish box. Those ones are 18 gauge rather than 21 or 22 gauge and have a lot better feel for a couple hundred $ more. So far it is doing great and I don't see any reason for it not to hold up in the long run. But it is mostly everybody else working out of that box for in shop and field repairs, as the primary mechanic myself I work out of my truck with my own tools.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

There was an article a while back about HF issuing debt to pay dividends to the CEO. To pay that debt either quality has to decrease or price has to increase. Of course the CEO could just be happy being a multi-millionaire, but he wants to be a billionaire and will sell HF's future to get there.

HF will file bankruptcy before Sears does.

 

[Jim c]

You know, that free hf multimeter actually is pretty good. I use it for simple things like checking to see if circuit is off after switching g the breaker when replacing outlets etc... it is plenty good enough. It even comes ready to use with the battery already Imstalled. Seems to be accurate too.

 

[Tonyuk]

Tools are tools, if they work then thats all that really matters to most customers in the end, the VAST majority dont care what you use to work on their car, just that the work is done right and for a reasonable cost.

If a tradesman whats to use cheap tools then so be it. More expensive tools can save them alot of money in the long run and make life easier, but its up to them.

 

[zendriver]

I think the haters, would love to see Harbor Freight go out of business, but then of course they might be the first ones, to start bitching when their own favorite tool vendors start raising their own prices because there is little lower-cost competition.

As far as their debt, maybe some of it goes to opening a brand new stores that they seem to open about every other week.


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[thool]

Mine died after 2 uses. The LCD panel had garbage text. I won't trust my life to a free unit with this history.

You know, that free hf multimeter actually is pretty good. I use it for simple things like checking to see if circuit is off after switching g the breaker when replacing outlets etc... it is plenty good enough. It even comes ready to use with the battery already Imstalled. Seems to be accurate too.

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[dnschmidt]

Hate all you want on HF. The evidence proves that they are winning. We have at least six stores here in Phoenix and I've got one on East Bell Road that's within 500 yards of my house. I've never been in there when they are not busy. Blah, Blah, Blah all you want but the market has spoken. Moving upscale was the next logical step and they will succeed at that move as well. Where else can you go to buy all of the stuff you can get at HF? And this made in China bias is pointless when all Milwaukee, Hitachi and DeWalt 's tools (yea I know some are assembled in the USA - but probably by robots so who cares) are made there too. Most tools are either low tech or well understood tech (like how to temper steel). Be Don Quixote if you wish and attack windmills if you like but in the final analysis it doesn't matter one bit. Like it or lump it HF is the tool store of the future and for all practical purposes the future is now.

I was the first guy to ever take Eric O. into a Harbor Freight. Now he (Mr. Mac and Snap-On) has a Daytona jack, all Earthquake cordless tools and who knows what else. If a pro's pro like Eric is buying stuff there you can bet big bucks other pros are doing the same thing. If a shop needs a hydraulic press there is a 90% probability that it's going to be a HF model here in Phoenix.