The VISES of Garage Journal

[mike_paxton]

A fellow vise enthusiast stopped in today with an old school Hollands 54.

Had to get some pictures of it, so could share with this group.

According to a prior post by CushmanDoug, there happened to be two Hollands 54. The earlier version was around the 1920's era, while the other Hollands 54 that is sometimes referred to as the Hollands 54 H had a very distinctive anvil horn and came out around 1953.

One question my friend has about his vise, was whether the slide had been shortened by a previous owner. Currently, the max opening of my friend's vise is around six inches. The jaws are five inches. Vise weight is 118, even with the missing pipe jaws.

If anyone has an old Hollands 54 like it, would appreciate knowing what the max opening would be on their older Hollands 54.

Thanks.

Mike

 

[sparty569]

I'll look into that when I clean it up. Thanks for that.

I was going to take them off, clean them up and see what screws I need to put them back in. I will be using it mostly for holding hot metal while I twist or bend it, or to hold metal while cutting. I'll keep the hard hammering for my anvil.

Well, you were right. It fell off of the stump and broke.

Now I need to learn how to weld.

 

[BMR24]

Some lag screws go a long way in preventing these sorts of things

 

[Outlawmws]

Well, you were right. It fell off of the stump and broke.

Now I need to learn how to weld.

Where did it break? at the old weld/braze joint? Somewhere else?

 

[Mlutra]

Drivesitfar and gman007
Thanks for your Quick reply. I started to take apart it.

Hi Drive

I sent pictures of the Prentiss Vise adding the jaw width ( 4 inchs). It could be a 41 as you mentioned?

 

[sparty569]

Where did it break? at the old weld/braze joint? Somewhere else?

Right where it was repaired previously.

 

[GETRIDAONE]

I think it is time to put that in the lesson learned column. Don't buy an obviously broken vise !

 

[BMR24]

I think it is time to put that in the lesson learned column. Don't buy an obviously broken vise !

And bolt the thing down so it doesn't slide off your work surface and hit the floor when you're twisting stuff in it

 

[GETRIDAONE]

I am guilty of the exact thing. It has been sitting there for probably 3-4 weeks. I have been to lazy to carry it to the other side of the basement. I am going to move it right now.

 

[sparty569]

I think it is time to put that in the lesson learned column. Don't buy an obviously broken vise !

Yeah, thanks. I didnt know it was broken. I didnt know what to look for. The woman I purchased it from offered no information in terms of repair that had been done to it.

 

[sparty569]

And bolt the thing down so it doesn't slide off your work surface and hit the floor when you're twisting stuff in it

I was going to get bolts when it fell off the stump.

 

[Outlawmws]

It appears that this is the THIRD time around for that thing to be broken. I see two distinct welds there...

I'd call that one done, and a parts donor for other vises to live on using parts still good... (See the Vise parts swap thread)

 

[va.grouseman]

Yea Sparty, Outlaw is right, even bolted down you probably would have broken it in regular use.---And like Outlaw said, now you have a donor.---You or somebody will eventually need some of those parts.---If every part on it was broken, it would still have intrinsic value in the form of scrap iron.---Glass half full.


I bought what I thought was a steal in a Yost Combination Anvil Vise about 3 months ago and was so excited at the price, in haste, I didn't examine it closely.---I wanted to lock it in right then and there.---Upon arrival, I found it had been welded and the slide support missing.---Valuable lesson learned.---Thought I was getting a rare collector.---Nope, just a good user.---If they'd be honest, just about everyone on this thread has gotten burned or burned themselves at one time or another.


Now you know what to look for when you go shopping again.

 

[sparty569]

I found a welding place nearby that said that they can fix it. Another place I called gave me their number and said "if anyone can fix it, they can." I only have $40 into the vise, so another $50 to fix it and I'll still be ahead if I bought a new one.

If it doesn't work, well, lesson learned.

 

[gman007]

I was going to get bolts when it fell off the stump.

Sparty

What I am about to say is not meant as a criticism and it is not my place to tell someone else what to buy and not to buy, but rather as others have said it is meant as a lesson (and if you track back one of my first posts was about a vise that I got suckered into buying and which was heavily damaged, most of us have been there at least once). With a bit of experience hopefully one can avoid these mistakes.

The reason I spotted the issue from your original little photo and alerted you, was simply because the welds were fairly obvious. It should be even easier when you examine the vise in person. There should be no welds/braze or heavy grind marks (trying to mask welded areas) or uneven and odd looking spots, surfaces etc specially on the slide or anywhere else. And that kind of repair in my books is generally a kiss of death and the vise should be avoided like pleague!

 

[Outlawmws]

Sparty, that is a highly stressed area on any vise. So unless this has sentimental value, AND is destined for very light use, don't throw good $$ after bad. I've seen braze jobs hold up in that area, but repairs there are always suspect.

The METAL is now compromised - by the prior weld jobs. It was broken, then welded then broke and welded again. Notice the old welds did not break?

When (not if) it breaks again after being welded, and you take it back to your welder complaining, I can tel you what they will say: "My weld did not break - the metal broke again. My welds don't break!"

Technically they are right. but the welding does impact the cast iron next to it. the weld rod has a tinsel and yield strength much higher than cast iron does, and cast is generally at its best in its "as cast" state.

The fact is the two prior welding jobs compromised the structure of the metal and in fact it is rather thin to begin with. The next weld job will do the same. You can't weld there in a highly stressed part and get a "just as good as new" fix.

My advise (and I have welded up Asian vises the same place multiple times) is save the $50 for the next vise. There is ALWAYS another one later.

 

[TTLLOGIC]

Found this Chas Parker in excellent condition for $50


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[Fordriver6]

Found this Chas Parker in excellent condition for $50


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That Parker looks to be in great shape. You did great for $50. It looks like it has wood jaws mounted the entire throat depth. What model is it?

 

[TTLLOGIC]

That Parker looks to be in great shape. You did great for $50. It looks like it has wood jaws mounted the entire throat depth. What model is it?

It's a model 824


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[Gerard]

It's a model 824

Superior series Parker for $50... you ****.

That is easily among the best vises of its size ever made.

The homemade wood jaw covers are pretty cool. Worth keeping around in case you need them, or just as a piece of history from the previous owner and user.

 

[chrisnazzy]

Sparty, that is a highly stressed area on any vise. So unless this has sentimental value, AND is destined for very light use, don't throw good $$ after bad. I've seen braze jobs hold up in that area, but repairs there are always suspect.

The METAL is now compromised - by the prior weld jobs. It was broken, then welded then broke and welded again. Notice the old welds did not break?

When (not if) it breaks again after being welded, and you take it back to your welder complaining, I can tel you what they will say: "My weld did not break - the metal broke again. My welds don't break!"

Technically they are right. but the welding does impact the cast iron next to it. the weld rod has a tinsel and yield strength much higher than cast iron does, and cast is generally at its best in its "as cast" state.

The fact is the two prior welding jobs compromised the structure of the metal and in fact it is rather thin to begin with. The next weld job will do the same. You can't weld there in a highly stressed part and get a "just as good as new" fix.

My advise (and I have welded up Asian vises the same place multiple times) is save the $50 for the next vise. There is ALWAYS another one later.

Absolutely gotta go with Outlaw and the others on this vise. There really is no good reason to spend any $$ attempting to fix it again. It has suffered enough. Let it die and be an organ donor.

Instead, stay optimistic and keep looking for an old American vise that hasn't had its integrity compromised. There are deals out there everywhere, just gotta play the CL, FB, Letgo, Offerup and garage sale shuffle. Most of all, you have to be patient. We all have stories of vises we've picked up for less than $50 that would sell for hundreds on eBay........that is if we were willing to sell them!

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[yjWrangler]

Blasted and painted. Just a Craftsman but that was pretty enjoyable. Think I'll try doing the lettering, that part I'm not excited for

 

[va.grouseman]

Very nice so far YJ.---Steady hand on the letters and chevrons, just like a brain surgeon.---No pressure.---Just kidding, you'll do fine.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Blasted and painted. Just a Craftsman but that was pretty enjoyable. Think I'll try doing the lettering, that part I'm not excited for

Looks good.
I've found that lettering is easy with paint pens.

 

[Fordriver6]

Cleaned up and painted the Wilton 9300 I picked up a while back. Went with satin blue with white lettering. Screwed up on painting the 9300 so didn't take a pic of that side yet. Gotta let it dry then do blue, then try the lettering again.

Made a temporary set of wood jaws until a 12" piece of 3/4" x 3/4" white nylon bar stock comes in from McMaster-Carr. Figure it will be good to have one vise with non-marring jaws on it.

 

[sandman54]

Items I picked up while on vacation. An 80 Morgan Vise and a Baldor pedestal grinder, 2 horse 12 inch. Grinder restored by Crotalus Atrox. For your viewing pleasure - Sandman

 

[AceofSpad3s]

Only one worth mentioning, 400s.
I used my 3 1/2 columbian exposed screw a lot since it's easy to get to, but I managed to clean up the area around the workbenches and been using the wilton a lot more.
Forgot how sturdy it felt, wish I had a few more, but it's cost prohibitive.

When I get around to finding a welder I'll give repairing the 4" craftsman columbian a shot, it's got cracks on the side of the ledges down to the bottom edge but at least it isn't broken off.

 

[va.grouseman]

VERY nice toys Sandman.

 

[Bcom]

What can you guys tell me about this one? I know I’ve seen a few on here before but I don’t can’t seem to find them. Picked it up at a flea market yesterday for $25.

Wow Meat! That's really somethin ya got there!

 

[Josh C]

YJ- Nice work on that Craftsman. Probably not the best way but I found a 1” foam brush dipped into paint I sprayed into the cap from the can of spray paint worked pretty good for the lettering, and some patience.

Ford- I really like the idea you mentioned of having at least one vise with non marring jaws- simple but brilliant- thanks!

Sandman- Morgan #80- is that an 8” vise? Whatever size it is very nice, have a #40 that’s been in the family for decades and enjoy it regularly. Now, that 12” Baldor, damn, a little envious, that is a grinder. Wow

 

[WarrenJ]

Now have this Columbia vise. Need to do some work on it and come up with a new paint finish for it.

 

[TTLLOGIC]

Picked all these soft jaws up tonight for $25 all new.

2 aluminum Starrett 3 inch sets
1 brass Starrett 4 inch set
1 brass Starrett 3 inch set
3 copper Reed 4 1/2" sets
1 copper Reed 3 1/2" set
1 copper Wilton 4" set





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[trijeff]

wow, great pick up Logic ... YOU ****! Gonna be moving any of those down the road??

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[MayerMR]

Picked all these soft jaws up tonight for $25 all new.

2 aluminum Starrett 3 inch sets
1 brass Starrett 4 inch set
1 brass Starrett 3 inch set
3 copper Reed 4 1/2" sets
1 copper Reed 3 1/2" set
1 copper Wilton 4" set





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Super envious!

 

[TTLLOGIC]

I'm heavily debating on my need to keep them.


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[MayerMR]

I'm heavily debating on my need to keep them.


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Heavily debate on selling a set to me...

*edit* Specifically the Reed 3.5"

 

[sparty569]

Sparty

What I am about to say is not meant as a criticism and it is not my place to tell someone else what to buy and not to buy, but rather as others have said it is meant as a lesson (and if you track back one of my first posts was about a vise that I got suckered into buying and which was heavily damaged, most of us have been there at least once). With a bit of experience hopefully one can avoid these mistakes.

The reason I spotted the issue from your original little photo and alerted you, was simply because the welds were fairly obvious. It should be even easier when you examine the vise in person. There should be no welds/braze or heavy grind marks (trying to mask welded areas) or uneven and odd looking spots, surfaces etc specially on the slide or anywhere else. And that kind of repair in my books is generally a kiss of death and the vise should be avoided like pleague!

Sparty, that is a highly stressed area on any vise. So unless this has sentimental value, AND is destined for very light use, don't throw good $$ after bad. I've seen braze jobs hold up in that area, but repairs there are always suspect.

The METAL is now compromised - by the prior weld jobs. It was broken, then welded then broke and welded again. Notice the old welds did not break?

When (not if) it breaks again after being welded, and you take it back to your welder complaining, I can tel you what they will say: "My weld did not break - the metal broke again. My welds don't break!"

Technically they are right. but the welding does impact the cast iron next to it. the weld rod has a tinsel and yield strength much higher than cast iron does, and cast is generally at its best in its "as cast" state.

The fact is the two prior welding jobs compromised the structure of the metal and in fact it is rather thin to begin with. The next weld job will do the same. You can't weld there in a highly stressed part and get a "just as good as new" fix.

My advise (and I have welded up Asian vises the same place multiple times) is save the $50 for the next vise. There is ALWAYS another one later.

Thank guys. I appreciate what you are saying, and didnt see these responses until just now. I wasn't necessarily looking for a vise like this, just happened upon it. I was excited, and didnt know what to look for. Now I have some clue.

That being said, I went down, spoke with the guy. He said that brazing it will make it good as new. We shall see tomorrow. I asked if it would be good as new and if I could bang on it with a hammer, said "oh yeah." I have to trust the expert.

If it breaks, like I said and like you mentioned, I now know what to look for. I wont be using it for heavy hammering, mostly to hold metal for twisting and cutting and maybe some light hammering sideways, not down. It isn't a post leg vise by any stretch, so I know I cannot beat on it like that and have my anvil for heavy beating.

I'll post pictures of the work after I get it home tomorrow and ask about if there is a warranty on the work.

 

[MayerMR]

Thank guys. I appreciate what you are saying, and didnt see these responses until just now. I wasn't necessarily looking for a vise like this, just happened upon it. I was excited, and didnt know what to look for. Now I have some clue.

That being said, I went down, spoke with the guy. He said that brazing it will make it good as new. We shall see tomorrow. I asked if it would be good as new and if I could bang on it with a hammer, said "oh yeah." I have to trust the expert.

If it breaks, like I said and like you mentioned, I now know what to look for. I wont be using it for heavy hammering, mostly to hold metal for twisting and cutting and maybe some light hammering sideways, not down. It isn't a post leg vise by any stretch, so I know I cannot beat on it like that and have my anvil for heavy beating.

I'll post pictures of the work after I get it home tomorrow and ask about if there is a warranty on the work.

Having just gone back and looked at your photos; if you're going to have him braze it, and depending on the amount of clearance of the main screw and ram, maybe you could have them drill some holes on each side of the cleaned up mating surfaces and insert some small steel dowels in to act like rebar before having him braze it all up again? Dunno, just a thought.

 

[sparty569]

Having just gone back and looked at your photos; if you're going to have him braze it, and depending on the amount of clearance of the main screw and ram, maybe you could have them drill some holes on each side of the cleaned up mating surfaces and insert some small steel dowels in to act like rebar before having him braze it all up again? Dunno, just a thought.

From other things I have read on the internet, it could be ok for a day, could be ok for 5 years. I'm gambling.

Worst comes to worst, I still have this American made Columbian 3.5" Bench vise.

 

[Outlawmws]

That being said, I went down, spoke with the guy. He said that brazing it will make it good as new. We shall see tomorrow. I asked if it would be good as new and if I could bang on it with a hammer, said "oh yeah." I have to trust the expert.

It will NEVER be "good as new" and as an "expert" hes a welder not an engineer nor has he a heavy vise repair background. How do I know that? Because of his answer.

It's your vise and your $$. Do as you will, but to ignore the combined knowledge of this forum....