I just ordered this (Vessel 220W) myself, but can this be hit with a hammer at the top?
Seems like its metal at the top. Is it tang-thru?
Tools of Japan
- Thread starter Frankstools
- Start date
I just ordered this (Vessel 220W) myself, but can this be hit with a hammer at the top?
Seems like its metal at the top. Is it tang-thru?
Thanks for the explanation, I didn't really think it was a knock-off, the finish was too nice, but clearly different and your post describes it perfectly. It looks like I got old stock there, or their super long series drivers have lagged somewhat in the upgrade process. I did note that I could not source a +2 in that length, so perhaps the old stock is gradually disappearing and the new version is not out yet.
1foxracing
Well-known member
I'm going to guess Vessel makes the Hozan models, I own the Hozan set as well in addition the Vessel Woody models and the Megadora & Impacta models.
I'm pretty sure Hozan makes their own screwdrivers. They were founded in1946 and are best known for their electronics tools and bicycle tools (Park Tool).
Also, I've owned both Vessel and Hozan screwdrivers and I don't see any family resemblance at all.
rijndael
Well-known member
I have more than a few drawers of Park Tools ... I never knew they were Hozan.
Reed Prince
Well-known member
Unless I am mistaken, Park Tool is still a USA company, and Hozan is their Japanese distributor.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BpfFKB-C6aQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.parktool.com/trade-resources/worldwide-distributors
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BpfFKB-C6aQ" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.parktool.com/trade-resources/worldwide-distributors
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I'm going to guess Vessel makes the Hozan models, I own the Hozan set as well in addition the Vessel Woody models and the Megadora & Impacta models.
Awesome collection!
I have that set of precision drivers, awesome, but annoying when the grips spin during use...
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OK, that makes more sense. But still pretty sure Vessel does not make screwdrivers for Hozan. But who knows in this Global manufacturing maze...
Reed Prince
Well-known member
I have a number of wonderful Vessel tools, but neither they nor any other Japanese manufacturer I have come across makes precision screwdrivers that are as good as the PB Swiss and Wiha ones I own. You'd think that at least one company made really excellent ones...
I want to love Wiha, but in my experience with their standard precision drivers, about 20% of them have blade play, which annoys me during use, but the tips and fit to fastener are stellar. With regards to PB, I have the interchangeable set (53 series handle) and they placed the collar right where my fingers go, so when tightening a screw, the collar loosens
I have yet to find a "perfect" set of precision drivers, but this is just me being nitpicky.
I could definitely see this being the case; the fixed are probably all-around perfect.
Are they "JIS-compatible"? Is JIS even applicable to smaller screws?
Fitment of the precision PH tips is excellent. AFAIK, PBS conforms with DIN 5260
For the small PH sizes such as #0000, #000, #00, #0, I've often seen the term JCIS for Japanese Camera Industrial Standard. Similar to the old JIS everyone here is used to seeing.
The 220W ball grip is not metal at the top, it is plastic with a nice silver paint job. Definitely not hammer friendly.
1foxracing
Well-known member
If you work on laptop computers pick this set up, absolute best I've used for removing the 50 screws laptops are held together with.
If you work on laptop computers pick this set up, absolute best I've used for removing the 50 screws laptops are held together with.
Nice, probably the only sizes you need too.
Vessel does make tang-through ball grip drivers for striking, though -- the 250 series.
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I've been using it, not just with JIS screws but general PH screws. Also used it just recently putting together an Ikea furniture using the PZ2 that's included in the 220W-3 set. Really works well.
One drawback is the ball grip handle does make it difficult when screwing in near corners. That's something to be aware of. The positives are of course the JIS PH and PZ has a great hold on the screws. I like to show off by just holding a PH screw and let the whole screwdriver hang attached to the screw, then I tilt the screw at different angles to show how well the screwdriver "sticks" without falling off.
The 220W-3 set is a great set for the price because it comes with everything for almost all general uses.
Negen
Well-known member
Don't these drivers conform to both jis and din standards
Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app
Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app
1foxracing
Well-known member
Not similar at all............
Wow! I see that now, looking at Vessel's website those are their 'Eco Value' drivers. I've never seen those before.
Years ago I had the Hozans and I didn't like them very much. I found them kind of 'cheap' feeling and the tips didn't hold up that great. Shortly thereafter I bought the Vessel Megadoras and man what a step up in quality. Better handles, knurled shanks, and really durable tips. So to me there was no 'family resemblance' between them at all. Like night and day.
Thanks for the insight
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^^ Its an excellent screwdriver, I had 2 almost stripped out philips screws on a door handle yesterday I had to remove. Armed with an arsenal of tools, I grabbed the Impacta first and removed both screws easily and re-used both afterwards. They are nice. I also bought the 2 pack, 1 philips and 1 slot from Sears when I was in the US earlier this year.
As expected, due to new tax regulations the new Amazon geoblock came into effect yesterday for Australian customers:
View media item 84523Kind of a silly corporate response, their AU site is a joke. They were a convenient source, due to good shipping prices and easy ordering process etc, but there are alternatives. I hope other retailers do not follow this lead, AU is an importing nation now, most of our manufacturing has been closed down.
View media item 84523Kind of a silly corporate response, their AU site is a joke. They were a convenient source, due to good shipping prices and easy ordering process etc, but there are alternatives. I hope other retailers do not follow this lead, AU is an importing nation now, most of our manufacturing has been closed down.
E430Driver
Active member
So many tools... not enough $$$$... 
Need me another raise, play the lotto, WIN the lotto...then go crazy..
Need me another raise, play the lotto, WIN the lotto...then go crazy.. Negen
Well-known member
I almost bought that I have matching screwdrivers. I would have bought it if it went to 7mm I use 5,.5.5,7mm daily. I do also wish the top was metal and not plastic.
Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app
submariner
Well-known member
Interestingly...
Gold plated Koken socket set: https://www.vektools.com.au/koken-gold-plated-limited-edition-socket-set-18pce.html
Seems cheaper than Snap On regular socket set?
Gold plated Koken socket set: https://www.vektools.com.au/koken-gold-plated-limited-edition-socket-set-18pce.html
Seems cheaper than Snap On regular socket set?
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Koken 1/4" ratchet handles compared. Tooth count: how low can you go?
When I first started buying ratchets, I was like most folks and thought that tooth count was the be all and end all of quality. So I got a 72-tooth Tone ratchet and was quite happy with it.
But then after reading all the positive reviews of Koken ratchets here, I decided to try one, so I got the Koken 1/4" Z-EAL 2725Z 36-tooth ratchet. After playing around with the Z-EAL a bit, I understood why people love them so much. The Koken had about 1/3 the backdrag of the Tone. WIN!
The only thing I didn't like about the Z-EAL was the selector lever, which always seemed to get hung up, not switch unless you fiddled around with it, and then fail to engage positively. Frankly, it felt really cheap. So I checked out the Japanese reviews at Amazon Japan, and of the three reviewers, one gave the 1/4" Z-EAL 5 stars due to the lighter action than the KTC ratchet it replaced, but the other two gave it 1 star due the the sloppy and balky selector lever. One guy said he had many other Koken tools, but thought that this particular model was not up to Koken standards. (BTW, this only applies to the 1/4" Z-EAL, the 3/8" Z-EAL [which I also have] is absolutely great.) I also personally don't particularly care for plastic handles.
So I decided to try out the Koken 2753NB 20-tooth ratchet, even though it was inexplicably more expensive than the 36-tooth Z-EAL. The main things I like about the 2753NB are the quick release button and the knurled steel handle. The backdrag is just as low as (or maybe even lower than) the Z-EAL. In addition, the selector lever switches easily and positively and has a high quality feel.
So I guess I'm perfectly happy with a 20-tooth [!!!] ratchet. Admittedly, I might feel differently about the low tooth count if I were an auto mechanic and had to work in crowded engine bays on a daily basis, but I'm only a home handyman, so access is almost never an issue for me.
Here are some pictures. (The Z-EAL is the one with the black handle.)
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When I first started buying ratchets, I was like most folks and thought that tooth count was the be all and end all of quality. So I got a 72-tooth Tone ratchet and was quite happy with it.
But then after reading all the positive reviews of Koken ratchets here, I decided to try one, so I got the Koken 1/4" Z-EAL 2725Z 36-tooth ratchet. After playing around with the Z-EAL a bit, I understood why people love them so much. The Koken had about 1/3 the backdrag of the Tone. WIN!
The only thing I didn't like about the Z-EAL was the selector lever, which always seemed to get hung up, not switch unless you fiddled around with it, and then fail to engage positively. Frankly, it felt really cheap. So I checked out the Japanese reviews at Amazon Japan, and of the three reviewers, one gave the 1/4" Z-EAL 5 stars due to the lighter action than the KTC ratchet it replaced, but the other two gave it 1 star due the the sloppy and balky selector lever. One guy said he had many other Koken tools, but thought that this particular model was not up to Koken standards. (BTW, this only applies to the 1/4" Z-EAL, the 3/8" Z-EAL [which I also have] is absolutely great.) I also personally don't particularly care for plastic handles.
So I decided to try out the Koken 2753NB 20-tooth ratchet, even though it was inexplicably more expensive than the 36-tooth Z-EAL. The main things I like about the 2753NB are the quick release button and the knurled steel handle. The backdrag is just as low as (or maybe even lower than) the Z-EAL. In addition, the selector lever switches easily and positively and has a high quality feel.
So I guess I'm perfectly happy with a 20-tooth [!!!] ratchet. Admittedly, I might feel differently about the low tooth count if I were an auto mechanic and had to work in crowded engine bays on a daily basis, but I'm only a home handyman, so access is almost never an issue for me.
Here are some pictures. (The Z-EAL is the one with the black handle.)
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That's why you need both
I have 72t+ ratchets for tight spots but I always reach for my Ko-kens first
Qualitytools
Well-known member
The Zeal is a special line as it has very close tolerances (at least for the sockets). It is by no means a budget line. Thanks for asking!
American Locomotive
Well-known member
The ZEAL line also has lower profile sockets, IIRC.
To Chris or anyone else who has used Tohnichi torque wrenches extensively in a professional environment, how are they compared to CDI, PI, Snap-On, etc. in terms of quality, toughness, accuracy, etc.?
And are KTC torque wrenches as good?
And are KTC torque wrenches as good?