Tools of Japan
- Thread starter Frankstools
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Just for your amusement
Received a box from Amazon Japan today. As you can see, the contents were undamaged...
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Received a box from Amazon Japan today. As you can see, the contents were undamaged...
View media item 87591
View media item 87592
View media item 87593
It seems like a great purchase. You will explain how it works.
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dutchgray
Well-known member
Re: Just for your amusement
I see Amazon has the same packaging system world wide.
I had a single 24mm impact socket turn up in a box like that, with about 20' of brown paper stuffed in.
I see Amazon has the same packaging system world wide.
I had a single 24mm impact socket turn up in a box like that, with about 20' of brown paper stuffed in.
4xdog
Well-known member
Re: Just for your amusement
That's very uncharacteristic Japanese packaging. The loose-stuff-in-a-box, the type of box, the type of dunnage -- all of it look US to me. Are you sure the package originated in Japan?
That's very uncharacteristic Japanese packaging. The loose-stuff-in-a-box, the type of box, the type of dunnage -- all of it look US to me. Are you sure the package originated in Japan?
Alava
Well-known member
Re: Just for your amusement
Yes, I'm from Spain and recently received some tools from Japan and come in that same box... I think that they have one "standard" box for everything, because small quantities are not common to buy from another side of the world...
Yes, I'm from Spain and recently received some tools from Japan and come in that same box... I think that they have one "standard" box for everything, because small quantities are not common to buy from another side of the world...
Re: Just for your amusement
Yes, I live in Japan and received the package from Amazon Japan with Prime next day delivery. The huge box made me laugh, but I definitely understand that it's faster and more efficient for the packing folks at Amazon to follow standard procedures rather than carefully consider and select the appropriate packaging for every order, especially when they have probably 3 seconds to deal with each box.
Yes, I live in Japan and received the package from Amazon Japan with Prime next day delivery. The huge box made me laugh, but I definitely understand that it's faster and more efficient for the packing folks at Amazon to follow standard procedures rather than carefully consider and select the appropriate packaging for every order, especially when they have probably 3 seconds to deal with each box.
HazetMatt
Active member
Ooh good timing to see that this exists. I was just looking for a torque wrench. What are everyone's thoughts on using one of these vs a dedicated 1/2" torque wrench? The other I was looking at was a Hazet 1/2" for about $200. Need to go from maybe 30NM up to at least 135NM for my lug nuts.
These TONE ones are all over ebay for $115-130 btw.
For convenience, a regular torque wrench is better, but these digital torque adapters are accurate and have their place. I use them at times to cross check regular torque wrench accuracy.
I'd recommend Tohnichi torque wrenches. Check out this video of Toyota/Lexus LFA takumi. If you look closely, you'll see Tone and Tohnichi tools being used.
And yeah, after more research, seems like the Tone adapters are made in Japan!
As for packaging, I noticed that Mutsuura has the best packaging. They fill all gaps with neatly folded bubble wrap, etc. Really shows ultimate care and attn to detail.
Amazon Japan's packaging isn't as great.
I'd recommend Tohnichi torque wrenches. Check out this video of Toyota/Lexus LFA takumi. If you look closely, you'll see Tone and Tohnichi tools being used.
And yeah, after more research, seems like the Tone adapters are made in Japan!
As for packaging, I noticed that Mutsuura has the best packaging. They fill all gaps with neatly folded bubble wrap, etc. Really shows ultimate care and attn to detail.
Amazon Japan's packaging isn't as great.
I'm sure Hazet is awesome too. Stahlwille as well.
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In Amazon Japan you have them for less:
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B007P7YHI2/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0081VXZ5M/
Strouty
Well-known member
TONE has been a bit misleading on where their stuff is made, if they told me they were made in Japan, I would not believe them.
Does anyone have any actual evidence to show they are misleading?
The point I keep seeing referenced is that some of their tools look very similar to tools that Hi-five is making out of Taiwan.
People tend to gravitate to the lowest denominator as the source of a subset of tools that look similar. However, correlation is not causation.
Hi-five plays as much in the patent game as they do in manufacturing:
https://www.ftc.gov.tw/internet/main/doc/docDetail.aspx?docid=2382&uid=282
Its possible that a similar design can be produced in multiple places, its possible that Hi-Five manufactures under a patent agreement for which TONE owns. Its also possible that TONE could be manufacturing under a Hi-five patent.
Its also possible that Hi-Five is producing a design that is not patent protected.
Lets consider that TONE won a design award in 2014 for their wrenches and ratchets:
http://www.g-mark.org/award/describe/41226
It would be hard to believe that they would have won it if in fact it wasn't their design.
Lets also consider that Tone has three factories, 2 in Japan and 1 in Vietnam.
If they wanted or needed to manufacture outside of Japan, why would they go to a third party when they already have a plant in Vietnam?
Two other points:
1. Their slogan is something to the effect of "To make high quality tools with our own hands".
2. They respond within 48 hours when asked about COO, and are concise with their answers (attached).
Speculating which third party produced a brands tools is one thing if that brand notes a foreign COO. But its a whole other ball game if we are claiming a brand is dishonest in COO identification.
The latter has serious legal repercussions when it comes to international trade compliance.
Its entirely possible, but people need to come up with some better proof.
Attachments
Hi-Five had the ratchets well before Tone. Tone was having them stamped Japan. They aren't "similar" they're identical.
Their catalog is massive. They'd need a lot more than 3 plants to make all that themselves.
When you buy Tone just assume its all high quality Taiwan tools. If its made in Japan then its a bonus. Both countries manufacture some great stuff so its no big deal to me.
Their catalog is massive. They'd need a lot more than 3 plants to make all that themselves.
When you buy Tone just assume its all high quality Taiwan tools. If its made in Japan then its a bonus. Both countries manufacture some great stuff so its no big deal to me.
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superautobacs
Well-known member
It's been a while....
Tsurumonkey,
Thanks for the report on your trip/purchases!
When that 60t ratcheting, stubby bit driver from Anex was released, it was my belief that it's a genuine product of theirs. I haven't seen an identical product coming from Taiwan/China since then so I put faith in that printed kanji stating "made in Japan".
That Daiso hand pump air duster....you mentioned rubber, but it must be silicone? I have a silicone one that looks identical, only in a different colour. This silicone one should last way longer than the rubber one it replaced.
The Shinwa ruler with the lip.....NSK (Niigata Seiki) came up with that idea. Check them out at well.
At the DIY level, the Canary brand scissors are very nice, IMO. They are still made in Seki city, unlike a lot of the other imported scissors offered at DIY/home centers with Japanese brand names.
Tsurumonkey,
Thanks for the report on your trip/purchases!
When that 60t ratcheting, stubby bit driver from Anex was released, it was my belief that it's a genuine product of theirs. I haven't seen an identical product coming from Taiwan/China since then so I put faith in that printed kanji stating "made in Japan".
That Daiso hand pump air duster....you mentioned rubber, but it must be silicone? I have a silicone one that looks identical, only in a different colour. This silicone one should last way longer than the rubber one it replaced.
The Shinwa ruler with the lip.....NSK (Niigata Seiki) came up with that idea. Check them out at well.
At the DIY level, the Canary brand scissors are very nice, IMO. They are still made in Seki city, unlike a lot of the other imported scissors offered at DIY/home centers with Japanese brand names.
superautobacs
Well-known member
That's
and 
at the same time.Curious about the Shinwa stuff.... all made in China? I find a lot of their stuff over the years have changed COO.
Can you provide the link to this information?
When I searched online for COO information I concluded that it's a "product of Japan"; not "made in Japan".
I thought the timing was peculiar when those adaptors were first introduced 6/7? years ago by TONE. It shortly after Taiwanese manufacturers were bringing these into the world market under different brand names ie. Craftsman, Spider, Master Craft, Powerbuilt etc, etc.
Even in Japanese tool nerd blogs, they were saying it's outsourced.
AFAIK, the TONE design/layout is unique to them though. My initial thoughts when I saw the design was: how come the display is upside down from all the other ones in the market of that style.
For all of you Japan's tools lovers and fans, just about something that is typed above: is there a difference between 'Product of Japan' and 'Made in Japan'? I have few Vessel screwdrivers, three rotary kits and there is just 'Product'...
If Amazon's packaging is fubar, there's a feedback form on the order history page you can use to explain the problem. If you attach pictures, it's especially good.
I used to work there and improving the algorithms used for selecting boxes is definitely something they care about.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I used to work there and improving the algorithms used for selecting boxes is definitely something they care about.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
That's not an accurate assessment. The closest ratchet resemblance available with a COO of TW is the Blackhawk ratchets.
Even in that case, there are minor differences in the selector rod, finish, handle milling, and of course the branding.
They do however look very similar. Legos and Mega bloks look very similar too (other than logo), but that doesn't mean they originate from the same place.
Thats my point; this is all speculation.
Speculatively, everything could be made in 1 plant, given appropriate size.
Hard to know what they make or don't make; but it would be reasonable to keep the main stuff in house; ratchets and wrenches certainly falling within that "main stuff" category.
There is nothing wrong with TW tools, but assuming something based on speculation is kind of silly. This goes back to my correlation based on the lowest denominator point.
We need solid proof.
We're talking about a publicly traded company based out of a first world country with a strong rule of law here. If in fact they have explicitly lied to me regarding the wrench COO, that would amount to a crime.
Further, every time they import or export their tools with an incorrect COO (commercial invoice), that amounts to a crime and significant penalty exposure.
If we looked at a Snap-On ratchet, and cross referenced it against a very similar looking pear shaped ratchet coming out of Taiwan, would we assume Snap on is sourcing the ratchets from Taiwan even if they noted a USA COO? Of course not.
That's
Curious about the Shinwa stuff.... all made in China? I find a lot of their stuff over the years have changed COO.
Hi, superautobacs. Nice to hear from you again. It seems you haven't been around for a while.
I ordered a bunch of Shinwa stuff after seeing a picture of a nice ruler in somebody's (Tsurumonkey's?) earlier post. I got steel rulers in various lengths (both types: flat and "pick-up" with the raised lip) and aluminum rulers designed for cutting. I'm very happy with their quality, especially since they were in the ¥300 price range.
I've already peeled off the stickers from all the plastic sleeves, and the COO is not indicated on the rulers themselves, so I can't be sure where they were made. However, I also got a Shinwa hinged angle measuring doodad, which was packed in a separate (smaller) box presumably due to lack of space, and the packaging said (as expected) "Made in China".
PS. As for COO, I have to say that I guide my purchases based on specific brands I like rather than county of manufacture. For example, Nikon has shifted a lot of its production to Thailand, but they still make fine photographic gear. For that matter, everyone's beloved Apple iPhone was made in China.
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noid if there was a Tone koolaid, you'd have it all. Sorry man but they have stuff made in Taiwan for them and Japans COO restrictions aren't remotely as strict as the US so im not exactly sure why you're dropping words like "illegal" and "crime". The US has ZERO regulation as far as outside country of origin is concerned which is why so much junk is "made in mexico" when its blatantly just been assembled there out of components manufactured in Asia. (just one example)
It is not false that Hi-Five had sell sheets for those ratchets before Tone. I explicitly remember Taiwan tradeshow PDFs 6-8 years ago with a number of tools, those ratchets being one of them.
You can hem and haw over it if you like, maybe even remain in denial a little bit, but as I said, I personally don't care. High quality tools is high quality tools. If you buy based off COO alone you're severely limiting your options from many great manufacturers the world over.
It is not false that Hi-Five had sell sheets for those ratchets before Tone. I explicitly remember Taiwan tradeshow PDFs 6-8 years ago with a number of tools, those ratchets being one of them.
You can hem and haw over it if you like, maybe even remain in denial a little bit, but as I said, I personally don't care. High quality tools is high quality tools. If you buy based off COO alone you're severely limiting your options from many great manufacturers the world over.
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https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/monju/item/tone-h4dt200/
I just saw a few places claiming Japan as the COO. Not 100% thus I stated "seems".
I just saw a few places claiming Japan as the COO. Not 100% thus I stated "seems".
Lets be clear, there is nothing wrong with having stuff made in Taiwan. The question at hand is whether that is the case and if there is misleading occurring.
Commercial international trade compliance; let me clarify.
The US has significant punitive regulations regarding COO of imports, as do most countries. In most cases, if intentional, the audits result in a criminal investigation.
CBP (US):
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/de...origin-marking-on-goods-imported-into-the-u.s.
http://ccbjournal.com/articles/6740...oduct-origin-can-result-substantial-penalties
CBSA AMPS penalties(Canada):
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/amps/mpd-dmi-eng.html
Japan:
https://home.kpmg.com/**/en/home/in...customs-declarations-or-non-declarations.html
This would include when TONE is supposedly importing TW>Japan and any time TONE does business internationally, or provides COO information to a IOR (importer of record).
There are explicit laws prescribing when a product is considered to have been "advanced in value" sufficiently to be marked made in a country when its internal components originated elsewhere.
That is why I specifically asked TONE if 100% of the wrench was made in Japan, by TONE in a TONE factory.
I'm open to the idea that it may not be true, but what solid proof points to the contrary?
Like I said initially, the relationship between the design, patent and manufacturer could go in any number of directions.
Perhaps Hi-five owns a design patent, perhaps its another company, or perhaps there is no design patent.
Other than the patent holder (if a patent exists) who cares? To your point below; good design is good design regardless.
To be in denial, I think first I would need something to deny. Speculation is hardly something to hang on too.
I almost never buy exclusively based on COO. But I sure do care if a company is deceitful.
To that end, i'm not drinking anyone's koolaid; especially the speculative koolaid.
While we are on a speculative topic of lowest denominator; USA made Ruger SR1911? Or is it really just a re-stamped Rock Island Armory 1911 nickle being made in the Philippines? Or perhaps even worse, maybe they are circumventing trade embargoes from china in a plot to stamp Norinco 1911's with USA stamps.
Very spooky stuff.
superautobacs
Well-known member
In my mind, 'Product of Japan' loosely means that the product could be manufactured wholly or partially in a different country, then assembled/tested/certified in Japan. 'Made in Japan' loosely means that the product is wholly produced within Japan, from start to finish.
I have some Vessel products from near 10 years ago (ratcheting screwdriver, screwdrivers) and they have the 'Product of' on them. In fact one product had a product card that said 'Assembled in Japan', while the product itself was stamped 'Product of Japan'. That's because they have factories in Thailand. IIRC, the Vessel hammer I bought 7 years ago actually had a product label that clearly stated 'Made in Thailand'.
Its normally the opposite. With a caviet in some countries that "Made in" is treated almost as highly as "product of" (such as in the USA).
Canada:
Why did the Bureau adopt the 98% threshold requirement for "Product of Canada" claims?
The 98% threshold for "Product of Canada" claims is consistent with the treatment of food products by the CFIA, which has also created a distinction between "Product of Canada" and "Made in Canada" claims.
The Bureau expects that the distinction between "Made in Canada", with its 51% threshold, and "Product of Canada", with its 98% threshold, will be an important and helpful consideration for many consumers who are seeking more information about the Canadian content of products to inform their purchasing decisions.
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/02228.html#sec05
Australia:
Goods described as ‘product of ’ must have each significant ingredient or
component sourced in the country that is the subject of the claim and all,
or virtually all, processes of production or manufacture must take place
in that country.
https://australianmade.com.au/media/57321/ACCC-Country-of-Origin-ACL-2011.pdf
USA:
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/bus...made-products-what-businesses-need-know-about
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard
According to the Federal Trade Commission, “Made in USA” means that “all or virtually all” the product has been made in America. That is, all significant parts, processing and labor that go into the product must be of U.S. origin.
Japan seems to have a 60% threshold for "Made in Japan":
https://japaninspection.org/certificate-of-origin/
In order to apply Certificate of Origin, the products must be “Made in Japan” and “Assembled in Japan” with more than 60% parts of Japan origin.
superautobacs
Well-known member
Hi Tanuki san,
I'm always curious about the COO of products as I can observe the shift some companies have taken over the years. ...Shinwa is just one example.
Re. SS rulers....Niigata Seiki is a recent purchase I made:
I recently came back from Japan and purchased a mishmash of hand tools.
Here's the lot
Sorry for the **** photo (my cell phone took a **** and had to use my back up phone)
Attachments
I was in Japan a few years back and thought about buying some tools. I thought it would be cool to have Japanese tools to work on my Japanese cars. But, I didn't know what was a good tool vs a junk tool. I was afraid I would buy Harbor Freight equivalents.
HazetMatt
Active member
While we're on the subject of Tone and "made in Japan", can anyone shed some light on their auto-locking pliers? The GPA-150 model specifically? A while ago I saw a pair from Hazet that were priced at $90, turns out they were a direct rebranding of some CH Hanson pliers that you can buy for about $25. That's the worst bait and switch I've ever seen. Anyway it seems like most types of auto-locking pliers ****, but the idea sounds great in theory.
Same ones, made in Taiwan. In the US you might as well go with the Hanson.
edit: looking at Tone's youtube, I'm going to have to pick up a 2BJT 1/4" locking bit swivel -
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modifier73
Well-known member
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- Apr 12, 2018
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modifier73
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- Joined
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madwi
Well-known member
1/4" flex head ratchet showed up from amazon.jp 
silver2000
Well-known member
That Koken wrench is awesome. I love it. Nice add to your collection!
silver2000
Well-known member
I didn't think that Silky made a Hori Hori, got a link?
silver2000
Well-known member
Below is a video demo I did of the tool in action but now that you asked it looks like they maybe stopped making it? Oh oh. I better put this one under glass maybe, collectors item? 