Above 1200 Sq/FT Jeff's Mountain Side Shop (Portland)

[sponaugle]

Whats the home wifi/network going to be like? I can see a need for at least 3 APs for coverage.

I have been working a bit on the low voltage network plan, but it is not fully flushed out yet. I need to work out some more details, but it is a good start given how early I am in construction.







The orange triangle represent AP locations. For standard 2.4 and 5GHz 802.11ac operation I suspect I will only need 3 or 4 total APs in the house. Both 2.5 and 5Ghz have good reflection propagation, and since I will probably start with Ubiquity UAP HDs that have MU-MIMO it is easy to measure and adjust coverage as needed. One great thing about the Ubiquity APs is the ability to regulate power so you can form minimal overlap coverage envelopes. I have a couple of tools to help out with this.

The reason for the larger number of AP locations is two fold - The first is to provide options for the initial install, as it is quite difficult to predict RF reflection paths in structure. The second and more important reason is to have eventual support for 802.11ad 60GHz technology. Long term I expect that kind of direct wave near line of sight to be the way things go, especially for >1GBs wireless delivery. In that case it is critical to have AP locations in nearly every room.

Given the low cost of CAT6A wiring, there is no reason not to do it now. Most of the drops in the house will terminate in the dedicated cooled server room on the lower floor, which has its own dedicated battery backed power feed (which is then generator back fed) There will be some point to point CAT6A for HDMI interconnects in a few place, plus fiber from the server room to both the AV area, as well as my office and the driveway. The fiber is primarily to support 10/40/100gig, and in the case of the driveway to support the 1000ft distance. I'll probably use a combination of single mode 9/125 and some multimode OM4, as they are very inexpensive to run and very usable. I expect to have a couple of hundred drops in total including for things like cameras, sensors, and the like. I expect there is be somewhere around 15-20 miles of wire to pull give or take a few miles.

I also have the other usual home automation like stuff.. All UPB switches, Speakers in almost every room, security and presence following systems, plus some cool SDR stuff for ham radio and some LMR-400 to the roof and to the back area for a potential tower.

There are data drops on the diagram, plus cameras, intercom and audio control, and a few ZWave interfaces. At least in the current plan all of the speakers run to the central server room with stops at the wall for control (probably not needed), and each room also has a wall control with Cat6 for audio control interfacing.

You can try to get it right, but there will always be some things we can't predict - to help that I will also run some conduit (not used) for future unplanned wiring needs.

Again, still more need to flush out, and always appreciate suggestions!

Jeff

 

[sponaugle]

Small deck for two comfy outdoor chairs and and table would be great. Private hang out area for you and the wife early morning or evening without having to put pants on!

Exactly. Life without pants is where it is at.
Jeff

 

[rlwhitetr3b]

The long hallway from the front garage was a limitation on the footprint we were allowed to build in due to the development plan we are using.

Get her a cart so the groceries can be loaded on it and pushed down the hallway.

 

[sponaugle]

Following- just the kind of cool home/garage project I like!

I just read your thread. Awesome setup, and great tool ideas. That SLC is beautiful as well. I have an Factory Five 818 about 80% done in the shop right now. I'm with you on the boosted part. I recently finished up my GTR build and made a reasonable 1130whp on E98, which makes for a super fun drive to work.

Jeff

 

[m_dunnie]

I have been working a bit on the low voltage network plan, but it is not fully flushed out yet. I need to work out some more details, but it is a good start given how early I am in construction.

The orange triangle represent AP locations. For standard 2.4 and 5GHz 802.11ac operation I suspect I will only need 3 or 4 total APs in the house. Both 2.5 and 5Ghz have good reflection propagation, and since I will probably start with Ubiquity UAP HDs that have MU-MIMO it is easy to measure and adjust coverage as needed. One great thing about the Ubiquity APs is the ability to regulate power so you can form minimal overlap coverage envelopes. I have a couple of tools to help out with this.

The reason for the larger number of AP locations is two fold - The first is to provide options for the initial install, as it is quite difficult to predict RF reflection paths in structure. The second and more important reason is to have eventual support for 802.11ad 60GHz technology. Long term I expect that kind of direct wave near line of sight to be the way things go, especially for >1GBs wireless delivery. In that case it is critical to have AP locations in nearly every room.

Given the low cost of CAT6A wiring, there is no reason not to do it now. Most of the drops in the house will terminate in the dedicated cooled server room on the lower floor, which has its own dedicated battery backed power feed (which is then generator back fed) There will be some point to point CAT6A for HDMI interconnects in a few place, plus fiber from the server room to both the AV area, as well as my office and the driveway. The fiber is primarily to support 10gig, and in the case of the driveway to support the 1000ft distance. I'll probably use single mode 9/125, as that is very inexpensive to run and very usable. I expect to have a couple of hundred drops in total including for things like cameras, sensors, and the like. I expect there is be somewhere around 10km of wire to pull give or take a few km.

I also have the other usual home automation like stuff.. All UPB switches, Speakers in almost every room, security and presence following systems, plus some cool SDR stuff for ham radio and some LMR-400 to the roof and to the back area for a potential tower.

There are data drops on the diagram, plus cameras, intercom and audio control, and a few ZWave interfaces. At least in the current plan all of the speakers run to the central server room with stops at the wall for control (probably not needed), and each room also has a wall control with Cat6 for audio control interfacing.

You can try to get it right, but there will always be some things we can't predict - to help that I will also run some conduit (not used) for future unplanned wiring needs.

Again, still more need to flush out, and always appreciate suggestions!

Jeff

Look into Sumitomo Blown Fiber. I've worked with it in the past, what a lifesaver it was when dealing with concrete structures. The ability to add/remove/change the fiber as needed is awesome.

 

[sponaugle]

Look into Sumitomo Blown Fiber. I've worked with it in the past, what a lifesaver it was when dealing with concrete structures. The ability to add/remove/change the fiber as needed is awesome.

Fascinating. That is a great approach so you can replace the fiber!

Jeff

 

[jeepxj]

I have been working a bit on the low voltage network plan, but it is not fully flushed out yet. I need to work out some more details, but it is a good start given how early I am in construction.

The orange triangle represent AP locations. For standard 2.4 and 5GHz 802.11ac operation I suspect I will only need 3 or 4 total APs in the house. Both 2.5 and 5Ghz have good reflection propagation, and since I will probably start with Ubiquity UAP HDs that have MU-MIMO it is easy to measure and adjust coverage as needed. One great thing about the Ubiquity APs is the ability to regulate power so you can form minimal overlap coverage envelopes. I have a couple of tools to help out with this.

The reason for the larger number of AP locations is two fold - The first is to provide options for the initial install, as it is quite difficult to predict RF reflection paths in structure. The second and more important reason is to have eventual support for 802.11ad 60GHz technology. Long term I expect that kind of direct wave near line of sight to be the way things go, especially for >1GBs wireless delivery. In that case it is critical to have AP locations in nearly every room.

Given the low cost of CAT6A wiring, there is no reason not to do it now. Most of the drops in the house will terminate in the dedicated cooled server room on the lower floor, which has its own dedicated battery backed power feed (which is then generator back fed) There will be some point to point CAT6A for HDMI interconnects in a few place, plus fiber from the server room to both the AV area, as well as my office and the driveway. The fiber is primarily to support 10gig, and in the case of the driveway to support the 1000ft distance. I'll probably use single mode 9/125, as that is very inexpensive to run and very usable. I expect to have a couple of hundred drops in total including for things like cameras, sensors, and the like. I expect there is be somewhere around 10km of wire to pull give or take a few km.

I also have the other usual home automation like stuff.. All UPB switches, Speakers in almost every room, security and presence following systems, plus some cool SDR stuff for ham radio and some LMR-400 to the roof and to the back area for a potential tower.

There are data drops on the diagram, plus cameras, intercom and audio control, and a few ZWave interfaces. At least in the current plan all of the speakers run to the central server room with stops at the wall for control (probably not needed), and each room also has a wall control with Cat6 for audio control interfacing.

You can try to get it right, but there will always be some things we can't predict - to help that I will also run some conduit (not used) for future unplanned wiring needs.

Again, still more need to flush out, and always appreciate suggestions!

Jeff

This is so over the top I love it. I'm running 2- 48 port switches for my house and envy you.

You forgot to put access points in the closet and shower? By my math you have enough access points to handle 10,000 devices.

no poop cam?

With your driveway being so long you should put some access points out there so when you get the mail you maintain signal. POE powered mailbox light should be factored for as well.


Seriously however - pull 6x drops to the main tv space. I pulled 4 and they're full. Also no point to point HDMI stuff. Have that go back to the central space then patch it to where it needs to go. Makes it more flexible in the future.

 

[sponaugle]

This is so over the top I love it. I'm running 2- 48 port switches for my house and envy you.

You forgot to put access points in the closet and shower? By my math you have enough access points to handle 10,000 devices.

no poop cam?

With your driveway being so long you should put some access points out there so when you get the mail you maintain signal. POE powered mailbox light should be factored for as well.

Seriously however - pull 6x drops to the main tv space. I pulled 4 and they're full. Also no point to point HDMI stuff. Have that go back to the central space then patch it to where it needs to go. Makes it more flexible in the future.

Ha! Great ideas!

As far as pull count, I need to add that to the sheet. For all of the normal data pulls and APs I will do 2 for each in case there is a problem with one of them. The only main TV in the house is in the play/TV room, and from the TV wall location I will have 6x Cat6As going to the AV equipment room (which is that little closet next to play room). I do have a few other multi-Cat6A bundles from a few other places that could eventually have TVs going to that same media room. I could have those go to the server room, but given the media to server room interconnections I'll have enough to map those if needed.

I plan on having the TV media stuff in the media closet upstairs... but I agree you never know what you will actually need. Perhaps I will add two additional Cat6A from those other TV locations direct to the server room.

From the media room to the server room I am doing six single mode 10 gig fibers in a single trunk, plus a 12x bundle Cat6A trunk cable. That should give me enough flexibility in terms of potential HDMI routing, and most of all lots of IP connectivity.

The driveway is an interesting bit... given the length I was planning on running fiber, and putting some equipment down at the end for gate control, cameras, motion sensor, etc. I have a project in process for doing the driveway lights such that they are multicolor LEDs that are individually addressable. For fun I'm using CAN bus as the interconnect.

The low voltage stuff is the fun stuff for sure... well that and putting in lifts.

Jeff

 

[JDMjunkies.ch]

That really is a great idea.. and something I need to think about. There is a lot of wood there that could be turned into some cool furniture! I suspect the hardest part is getting a saw that can cut the really big parts that are 32 inches in diameter.

Those trees could make something for sure!

Jeff

Yeah that's a great idea! had one of the apple-trees on the property cut into thick boards which will end up as our new dining table. This way the tree stays on the property and you have something really unique with a history bound to the place

We have full permits now, which took about 8 months to get. We were a little bit lucky as the previous owner had a team of lawyers and they were able to get a development plan approved, and since they technically 'started construction' that development plan was still considered open. We had to adjust some things to comply with the updated city tree code, and we have to plant about 70 trees as 'mitigation' for the forest disturbance. It is interesting as most of the city code is oriented towards more typical lots that might have 5 or 6 trees on them. As such, removing a tree is a big deal as the city would make you plant a replacement somewhere else on the property. The form used for reporting that has a place to indicated how many trees are currently on the property, and it has checkboxes for 1-5,5-10,10-20, and other. I put 'about 5000 trees' in the other box, which made a few people laugh.

The previous guy was starting building in 2007, and when the US markets crashed in 2008 I suspect he thought it wise to reconsider building the house he was building. It was a cool house, all glass and concrete with a very cool cantilever design, but I would guess it was a >$6 million dollar project. With no idea where the bottom of the market would land, it was probably a wise idea. He sat on the lot for 9 more years before selling it. Another bonus is he had power, water, natural gas, cable, and telephone brought all the way from the street to the house location, which is about 1000 feet of trenching.

Jeff

Thanks for the insight. Quite interesting. Somehow i didn't realize the first post was made so long ago. Love the project and keep the pictures coming

 

[sponaugle]

Thanks for the insight. Quite interesting. Somehow i didn't realize the first post was made so long ago. Love the project and keep the pictures coming

No, that is my fault, as the first post was just a few days ago, but I have a few more updates to get caught up to where we are today. We are in a holding pattern right now waiting for the structural steel fabrication which needs to get completed before we can get to any framing and actual house/shop building!

Jeff

 

[sponaugle]

Update 4 - Building the foundation walls.

With the footers poured, we can move onto the foundation walls.

The foundation walls were somewhat complicated due to the size. The lower to upper walls were 14 feet tall, which adds a little more work to getting the forms up such that you can get to them during pouring.

The ones at the back of the tree garden have the most height relative to the footers.



The vault walls are 12” thick 4500psi concrete with rebar, and will have a cap of the same material.





Amazing that all of this will be underground once we are done.

Jeff

 

[rakane]

And all that in the city. Amazing.

I live in Warren, avoid Portland at all costs. Might not be too bad in a place like that.

Meanwhile is a 30'Grady White Marlin.

 

[jeepxj]

What's the build budget here if you're ok with sharing. I can't wait to ask this question at the end.

 

[95riosnake]

Not sure if you are a fan of the UK series Grand Designs but IMO this house build would be right at home on that show. Most houses seem to look small when they're at the stage of pouring footings/slabs, but I have to say these pics still give it a pretty sprawling presence. Really looking forward to following along with this one!

 

[sponaugle]

Update 5 - Pouring the foundation walls part 1

With the walls and rebar complete, we did part 1 of the foundation wall pour. We had to split the foundation walls into two pours in part due to the size, and in part because the roof to the vault needed to be done after the walls. We also had 4 large beam rests that hold up the back deck that we wanted to do in the second pour.

Total concrete on the foundation wall pour #1 was 160 yards.

 

[memphisnate]

This is amazing! How close are the updates to current?

 

[sponaugle]

Update 6 - Getting ready for second foundation wall pour

You can see the foundation wall forms have been removed from the last pour, and we are getting ready for the second wall pour. The ceiling of the vault is being formed, as well as the front side wall to the tree garden.

The walls from the first pour have been exposed:

This is the only ‘crawlspace’ in the house, as the rest of the house is overtop of the shop and garage. Since this is a small area, I decided to have to full filled with concrete, so I can use it for storage.

The vault is ready for a ceiling.

From the air you can see the removed forms, and the remaining new forms coming together.

-

-

-

-

-

 

[sponaugle]

This is amazing! How close are the updates to current?

Let's see.. 3 more updates, which I will have done here in a few mins! Basically just the rest of the foundation, and prep for floor pour.
Jeff

 

[sponaugle]

Update 7 - The last foundation wall pour is complete.

I was out of town during the pour, so I don’t have pictures from that pour… but the final result looks great:

We are starting to backfill with gravel.

The finished vault looks great:

The last pour was about 70 yards, which means the foundation in total was a bit over 390 yards, which is about 1.6 million pounds of concrete. The floors will be another 70 yards, so the total concrete will be about 1.8 million pounds. I had no idea it would be that much, and that doesn’t include all of the steel or the flatwork. This is nothing compared to what you see in Europe, but certainly here in the PNW where the frost line is less than 12 inches you don't see this style very much.

 

[sponaugle]

Update 8: Rock backfill

With the foundation complete, we have had many days of many trucks of rock. In total about 50 trucks worth of rock, or ~400 yards of rock ( ~ 1.12 million lbs ) for the foundation backfill.

The tree garden ended up being a never ending consumer of rock. It is 12’ x 80’ x 12’, which is 11,520 cubic feet, or 427 cubic yards. While the top has about 5 feet of dirt, we will still need over 200 yards of gravel to fill it. My rock guys say I should have just bought a rock quarry.

This is the lower storage room wall.

This is the shop floor, compacted.

I also have all of the service conduits installed. These are for incoming electrical, low voltage, generator feeds, and networking. It is a bit overkill, but like many things, you can only do it once. Natural Gas should come in here as well, but in a dedicated yellow sleeve.

On the electrical side, I have conduits such that I can do a 600 amp primary service, and a second 200 amp EV only circuit (that has time of day rates). I suspect that an 800 amp total service is sufficient for anything I am going to come up with. Regrettably I can’t easily get 3 phase power, as the power along the adjacent road only has 2 phases on it.

Given the future of electric cars, I am putting 100 amp circuits on both sides of the upper garage (on a single shared 100amp breaker, but with low voltage wiring so two Tesla chargers can share), plus two 100 amp drops in the lower garage for the same thing. All of these will be off that dedicated 200 amp meter that does time of day, which means when the Teslas are programmed for charging after 10pm the cost per kWh goes down to about 5.5 cents.

 

[welder57]

Wonderful build, love the updates and drone pictures. Daughter will be really proud of her new home, the wife as well....

 

[Ronin22]

Hello. Would you like to adopt me?

LOL! That location is a dream. Congrats and please do keep us updated!

 

[NickTheGreat]

This is going to be phenomenal. Appreciate you sharing with us.

 

[Thirdyfivepickup]

This is going to be epic! Lots of though going into this! I love it!

 

[jeepxj]

consider putting something up on the walls now before the rough mechanicals go in. I've seen them done with wood flooring as well which looked super nice.

other ex:

 

[sponaugle]

Update 9 - In floor plumbing

With the gravel backfill almost complete, we need to get the in floor plumbing complete before the floor pour. I decided to have in floor drains for the lower garage going to a dedicated oil separator before going to the drain system. There is not a lot of in-concrete plumbing, but I did add a bathroom downstairs in the shop, as there was not one on the lower floor.

The shop subfloor is done and ready for rebar. We ended up with almost 18” of rock before getting to the grade for the concrete. I think the rock quarry guy likes me.

Jeff

 

[iwantspeed]

awesome house good luck with your project

 

[sponaugle]

Wonderful build, love the updates and drone pictures. Daughter will be really proud of her new home, the wife as well....

Thanks!

Hello. Would you like to adopt me?
LOL! That location is a dream. Congrats and please do keep us updated!

Thanks! I think I'll stick to adopting more hobbies!

This is going to be phenomenal. Appreciate you sharing with us.

Thanks!

This is going to be epic! Lots of though going into this! I love it!

Thanks!

consider putting something up on the walls now before the rough mechanicals go in. I've seen them done with wood flooring as well which looked super nice.
other ex:

Oh that is an interesting idea. I am doing drywall on top of fur walls on all of the concrete walls on the lower floor, but those pictures look interesting. I'll have to think through that a little bit.

Jeff

 

[jeepxj]

drywall isn't going to cut it. For a mechanical room wall you want at least 3/4" of wood or some metal. This prevents the installers from having to use unistrut everywhere which can look like an afterthought. Hell even just nice sanded sheets of plywood or new shiplap looks great behind mechanicals.

 

[sponaugle]

drywall isn't going to cut it. For a mechanical room wall you want at least 3/4" of wood or some metal. This prevents the installers from having to use unistrut everywhere which can look like an afterthought. Hell even just nice sanded sheets of plywood or new shiplap looks great behind mechanicals.

Hmm. Ok that makes sense. While I like unistruts, it would make things look messy. I am doing wood on the ceilings in the large room as well as for the walls in the vault, so I might do the same in the mechanical room. I'll have plenty of material.

The computer room is a different beast, as that will have a ESD floor tiles.. but I'm not sure what I will put on the walls. Nothing will be mounted on the walls, as there will be 3 19" server racks (floor standing), plus a floor standing network gear rack. I was intended on using drywall, but I'll have to think about that.

Thanks to the tip!!

Jeff

 

[Woffski]

Wow!!! This looks incredible! Please keep it coming!!!

 

[ConCretin]

Very impressive build! I'm diggin the old school Jahn's system formwork. That system requires honest to God form carpenters (wish I could find a few of those myself) and results in some beautiful concrete. Can't wait to see the rest of the job. Thanks for posting.

 

[rixtrix1]

Just an awesome site and build; Hard to believe theres a single lot of this size inside a major city. What a lucky acquisition for you! Thanks for sharing.

 

[shelteredV]

I have to agree that your quarry man better send you a Christmas card! Great job, and this obviously isn't your first rodeo by the looks of the planning and foresight here. Just an idea that we've been doing in garages lately which is 3/4" PVC sheet on at least the bottom 48" and we just finished a build that we railroaded 8' sheets, which wored out pretty slick, especially for the mechanical rooms and wet spaces. You usually end up running Kendorf around anyway and this material holds screws pretty well.
Anyway, keep the updates coming on your incredible build, you have a hell of a ride coming!

 

[sponaugle]

Very impressive build! I'm diggin the old school Jahn's system formwork. That system requires honest to God form carpenters (wish I could find a few of those myself) and results in some beautiful concrete. Can't wait to see the rest of the job. Thanks for posting.

I'm impressed you recognized that! It is sort of old school, but if you use new boards (with the coating on the pour side ) the walls are very smooth. It was interesting hanging out and watching them work. They had a really good system and workflow to do each section. Clearly something that you just get from years of experience with it.

Jeff

 

[jkeyser14]

Update 8: Rock backfill

With the foundation complete, we have had many days of many trucks of rock. In total about 50 trucks worth of rock, or ~400 yards of rock ( ~ 1.12 million lbs ) for the foundation backfill.

The tree garden ended up being a never ending consumer of rock. It is 12’ x 80’ x 12’, which is 11,520 cubic feet, or 427 cubic yards. While the top has about 5 feet of dirt, we will still need over 200 yards of gravel to fill it. My rock guys say I should have just bought a rock quarry.

This is the lower storage room wall.

This is the shop floor, compacted.

I also have all of the service conduits installed. These are for incoming electrical, low voltage, generator feeds, and networking. It is a bit overkill, but like many things, you can only do it once. Natural Gas should come in here as well, but in a dedicated yellow sleeve.

On the electrical side, I have conduits such that I can do a 600 amp primary service, and a second 200 amp EV only circuit (that has time of day rates). I suspect that an 800 amp total service is sufficient for anything I am going to come up with. Regrettably I can’t easily get 3 phase power, as the power along the adjacent road only has 2 phases on it.

Given the future of electric cars, I am putting 100 amp circuits on both sides of the upper garage (on a single shared 100amp breaker, but with low voltage wiring so two Tesla chargers can share), plus two 100 amp drops in the lower garage for the same thing. All of these will be off that dedicated 200 amp meter that does time of day, which means when the Teslas are programmed for charging after 10pm the cost per kWh goes down to about 5.5 cents.

Smart planning. I put in a 200A panel in my garage connected to a total of 8 Nema 14-50 outlets (50A), all scattered around my garage and in our driveway. It's nice waking up to a full "tank" in my Tesla every morning.

 

[jeepxj]

Hmm. Ok that makes sense. While I like unistruts, it would make things look messy. I am doing wood on the ceilings in the large room as well as for the walls in the vault, so I might do the same in the mechanical room. I'll have plenty of material.

The computer room is a different beast, as that will have a ESD floor tiles.. but I'm not sure what I will put on the walls. Nothing will be mounted on the walls, as there will be 3 19" server racks (floor standing), plus a floor standing network gear rack. I was intended on using drywall, but I'll have to think about that.

Thanks to the tip!!

Jeff

server room's with full height melamine sheets always struck my fancy. Easy to wipe down for dust and double as white boards when you're trying to do something.

What on earth do you have filling 3 racks worth? audio gear?

 

[nadogail]

I am impressed, may you enjoy your new home in good health.

 

[PLOWJEEP]

Thanks for taking the time out of your busy day to share with us.

 

[lieutenant]

My daughter is a Pilot, a recent grad of The University of Portland. I love to visit as she stayed after graduation and says she is never coming back to California. Your build is epic.