Has HF really stepped up their game with hand tools?

[Flybye]

My mechanic, who has been in business for 35+ years, gave me a nice little discussion the other day. He has tools from every imaginable professional tool company. I see Mac boxes, Snap-on boxes, etc.

He told me he has actually been very impressed with HF's Pittsburgh line lately. He even showed me their $20 breaker bar that HF advertises to compare to a Snap-on version. And the one he currently owns he has been using for about 2 years.

Like many here I am afraid of chinese junk, and for decades I have been unimpressed with chinese junk. I cant even capitalize the name chinese. I have only been collecting USA Craftsman since the early 90s. I am a hobbyist that is also starting to collect tools for my car dealership. And you know Im not going to take my "vintage" USA Craftsman goodies to work. But I am also not in any position to be buying everything USA made. Only reason I got a new Craftsman set was because of the intense what I like to call "going out of business" sales Sears is having on their site.

We all know chinese made stuff can only be of good quality to a certain point. Manufacturers set their standards, and the rest is up to the factory to properly follow it. You guys think HF is seriously stepping up their game to have tools almost or JUST as good as Snap-on?

 

[trekgod3]

I believe a lot , if not most of their ratchets and sockets are Taiwanese. Better than Chinese

 

[Ilikeike]

lots of stuff in their ad says just as good, or compare to Snap-On, but I'm skeptical.
But I'm sure they're plenty good enough to turn a bolt I guess.

I received a 50$ gift card for HF from My Dad on my B-day (we always give gag gifts),
Haven't been there in sometime, but I'm going to try this weekend, I need a cheap trailer jack for a project. I look for the Snap-on stuff while I'm there.

 

[GMCGarage]

My mechanic, who has been in business for 35+ years, gave me a nice little discussion the other day. He has tools from every imaginable professional tool company. I see Mac boxes, Snap-on boxes, etc.

He told me he has actually been very impressed with HF's Pittsburgh line lately. He even showed me their $20 breaker bar that HF advertises to compare to a Snap-on version. And the one he currently owns he has been using for about 2 years.

Like many here I am afraid of chinese junk, and for decades I have been unimpressed with chinese junk. I cant even capitalize the name chinese. I have only been collecting USA Craftsman since the early 90s. I am a hobbyist that is also starting to collect tools for my car dealership. And you know Im not going to take my "vintage" USA Craftsman goodies to work. But I am also not in any position to be buying everything USA made. Only reason I got a new Craftsman set was because of the intense what I like to call "going out of business" sales Sears is having on their site.

We all know chinese made stuff can only be of good quality to a certain point. Manufacturers set their standards, and the rest is up to the factory to properly follow it. You guys think HF is seriously stepping up their game to have tools almost or JUST as good as Snap-on?

You have to imagine there is only so much tech that can go into making a round bar with a square head. Machining tolerances, steel make up, etc factor in, but in the end, its still a round bar with square head.

Is snap on really 6-10X to make? Your buying a name, reputation, warranty, service, etc.

 

[Flybye]

...steel make up...

That right there is my biggest wonder. Many of us have been there seeing chinese tools just twisting and breaking away in our hands vs something using quality materials, and many have discussed about the chinese using inferior metals.

It is hard for me to argue with my mechanic who has been in the trade for almost 3/4 of my life. But ya know it really makes me wonder has HF actually crossed that quality line to provide really durable tools.

And if so, and with what I read with other people's experiences, it feels like HF really is just a giant hit or miss store. You have some things which can be of amazing quality, and others which are of the typical chinese quality.

 

[IndyGarage]

This question comes up constantly. Let me ask you a question?

Do you know where more mechanic tools are made and used - in the US or China?

The answer is China, of course. There are 10X the number of construction programs going on in China today than in the US. That means 10X the construction equipment and 10X the repairs going on.

Last year 27.5 million cars were sold in China, 17.5 million in the US. Those cars need mechanics and those mechanics use tools.

The Chinese already make 75% (that's a guess) of our tools, and they make 99% of their tools, which is a much bigger market.

Now who do you think is going to make the best tools 5-10 years from now?

 

[Tonyuk]

Tools are simple to make for any competent manufacturer. If the buyers at harbour freight spec a high quality tool that's what they'll get.

Likely its the exact same grade of steel that snap-on uses, in their higher quality lines anyway.

 

[Flybye]

This question comes up constantly. Let me ask you a question?

Do you know where more mechanic tools are made and used - in the US or China?

The answer is China, of course. There are 10X the number of construction programs going on in China today than in the US. That means 10X the construction equipment and 10X the repairs going on.

Last year 27.5 million cars were sold in China, 17.5 million in the US. Those cars need mechanics and those mechanics use tools.

The Chinese already make 75% (that's a guess) of our tools, and they make 99% of their tools, which is a much bigger market.

Now who do you think is going to make the best tools 5-10 years from now?

That is a great point. And I am sure at some point they said to each other "Guys, we need to make better products for our own workforce as well."

 

[Mechanical Noise]

That right there is my biggest wonder. Many of us have been there seeing chinese tools just twisting and breaking away in our hands vs something using quality materials, and many have discussed about the chinese using inferior metals.

Used to be the Japanese tools that were made of butter soft steel. Before that, there was no shortage of lousy made in the USA tools. Cheap is cheap!

It is hard for me to argue with my mechanic who has been in the trade for almost 3/4 of my life. But ya know it really makes me wonder has HF actually crossed that quality line to provide really durable tools.

And if so, and with what I read with other people's experiences, it feels like HF really is just a giant hit or miss store. You have some things which can be of amazing quality, and others which are of the typical chinese quality.

And maybe the "secrets" to making quality products aren't such secrets anymore.

I'm one of those people who bought most of my tools at Sears. Until a few years ago. I don't really need that many more wrenches or sockets but I've bought some power tools and, in each case, I'd say they were better than the power tools I got from Sears.

I'm mostly happy with Harbor Freight. I'm sure they sell some junk but I avoid the bottom end stuff they offer. Maybe that's not so bad, either. I just can't say from personal experience.

 

[WhataTool]

This question comes up constantly. Let me ask you a question?

Do you know where more mechanic tools are made and used - in the US or China?

The answer is China, of course. There are 10X the number of construction programs going on in China today than in the US. That means 10X the construction equipment and 10X the repairs going on.

Last year 27.5 million cars were sold in China, 17.5 million in the US. Those cars need mechanics and those mechanics use tools.

The Chinese already make 75% (that's a guess) of our tools, and they make 99% of their tools, which is a much bigger market.

Now who do you think is going to make the best tools 5-10 years from now?

I'm often in china. Absolutely no one is using 90 tooth ratchets, digital torque wrenches, cordless impacts or anything that you might not find in a US small auto repair shop from the 1970's.

All of these great tools are being shipped off to the USA, Australia and Europe where technicians care about features and quality level, and they or their bosses are willing to pay for it.

 

[rlitman]

This question comes up constantly. Let me ask you a question?

Do you know where more mechanic tools are made and used - in the US or China?

The answer is China, of course. There are 10X the number of construction programs going on in China today than in the US. That means 10X the construction equipment and 10X the repairs going on.

Last year 27.5 million cars were sold in China, 17.5 million in the US. Those cars need mechanics and those mechanics use tools.

The Chinese already make 75% (that's a guess) of our tools, and they make 99% of their tools, which is a much bigger market.

Now who do you think is going to make the best tools 5-10 years from now?

I'm often in china. Absolutely no one is using 90 tooth ratchets, digital torque wrenches, cordless impacts or anything that you might not find in a US small auto repair shop from the 1970's.

All of these great tools are being shipped off to the USA, Australia and Europe where technicians care about features and quality level, and they or their bosses are willing to pay for it.

"Absolutely no one" is taking it way too far. Let's remember that iphones are made in China, and China has a well funded space program. Sure, there are a great majority of impoverished people in China who can't afford HF tools, but there are also plenty of people who wouldn't settle for HF quality, and are glad to see that sort of **** shipped overseas.

Anyone who makes blanket statements about China forgets its sheer size.

 

[WhataTool]

"Absolutely no one" is taking it way too far. Let's remember that iphones are made in China, and China has a well funded space program. Sure, there are a great majority of impoverished people in China who can't afford HF tools, but there are also plenty of people who wouldn't settle for HF quality, and are glad to see that sort of **** shipped overseas.

Anyone who makes blanket statements about China forgets its sheer size.

I've been to China and Taiwan no less than 30 times, my job is QC for an international distributor of industrial equipment including everything from tire machines and lifts to hydraulic impacts and boring machines.

Some exceptions include the bespoke car builders that build 1,000HP GTR's and Porches for customers paying ¥7M in Shanghai, Hangzhou and Guangzhou for example. Everyone else just doing service and repair are using incredibly basic tools.

Hell, China makes more brooms than any country on earth. But every single worker pushing a broom in China you'll find using some straw attached to a stick with twine - sweeping the marble floors outside the entrance to a 80 story skyscraper. It's a crazy country.

I'm not saying they can't afford the tools we use, they just don't seem to see the utility in spending 5X more.

 

[Chucktin]

Warranty, what warranty?
Never _had_ to get any substantial tool replaced only the smaller (more delicate?) tools. And I've got a hybrid collection, Craftsman, Snap On, HF, etc. Really I buy by need and design. For instance I've got one longish ratchet with a wrist join because I needed that config.

 

[visionguru]

....
I'm not saying they can't afford the tools we use, they just don't seem to see the utility in spending 5X more.

I wouldn't use "they" to describe a population of 1.4 Billion. There are plenty of folks who are tool snobs too.

This tool set is $5 shipped in China, 1/2 of the cost probably goes to shipping. Harbor Freight is selling a similar set for $50!
Is Harbor Freight really cheap?

For people who need tools in China, they definitely can afford Harbor Freight tools.

 

[zendriver]

I'm often in china. Absolutely no one is using 90 tooth ratchets, digital torque wrenches, cordless impacts or anything that you might not find in a US small auto repair shop from the 1970's.



All of these great tools are being shipped off to the USA, Australia and Europe where technicians care about features and quality level, and they or their bosses are willing to pay for it.

So what are they using for tools to tool up to and mass produce, 70 inch LCD televisions?

Just curious.




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[Tallpilot]

The answer is yes. One thing that has not changed though is Harbor Freight still uses the customer as their QC. That apparently saves them enough on the front end to be worth exchanges at whatever their defect rate is.

 

[zendriver]

That is a great point. And I am sure at some point they said to each other "Guys, we need to make better products for our own workforce as well."

Good point.

People seem to forget (or don't know) that until the last 50 years or so, much of China's people, still lived in the 14th century.

When they started making wrenches for harbor freight, it wouldn't be surprising if the workers were clueless, as to what they even were used for.

They have come a very long way in a very short period of time and many people find that stinging.



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[ChrisLS8]

They see the void left by Sears and I'm sure they are trying to fill that gap for the pro DYI and techs judging by the upcoming icon lineup that are similar to SO

 

[WhataTool]

So what are they using for tools to tool up to and mass produce, 70 inch LCD televisions?

Just curious.

Tools used for manufacturing, which are owned by the factory or the customer, vary from extremely basic to more high tech than you can find in the USA, and the same for the workforce from very unskilled to higher skill and experience than you can find in the USA.

My comments about finding 90 tooth ratchets and cordless impacts apply more in comparison to the type of person you find on this board - people who service and repair vehicles.

 

[tonyciambrone]

In response to OP, yes. The Pittsburgh Pro ratchets, 25" breaker bar, Doyle and icon pliers, even some screwdrivers etc are way better than what they used to offer. I pretty much won't buy anything that plugs into a wall there, or chrone sockets and wrenches but I am pretty confident they will change that in the future...

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have their Pittsburgh Pro 25" breaker bar and the disc brake rewind tool.

I also have their long reach needle nose pliers and the set of 3 fuel line pliers. Both "tarnished" very quickly, but a drop of Fluid Film and they work perfect.

 

[Flybye]

...I pretty much won't buy anything that plugs into a wall there...

Ha yeah that has been my golden rule with them. Don't buy anything that can kill you.

 

[Hammer1963]

Easy answer without getting too terribly technical. YES! A good comparison could be made to Hyundai and Kia automobiles when they first arrived in the U.S. They were not well made. Poorly designed. Poor quality of materials. The list goes on. Just as were some Harbor Freight tools at one time. Now those two conjoined auto manufactures produce "typical consumer vehicles" that rival any other company. Harbor Freight has done the same with some of their offerings. Spending my life in auto and tool related trades, I've witnessed these changes. It's a good thing! The world has changed. Accept it or not, we live in a global economy and everyone wants to be a player.

 

[Jeffksf]

Interested in the new Quinn line of screwdrivers, anyone pick these up yet?

 

[jd_1138]

Interested in the new Quinn line of screwdrivers, anyone pick these up yet?

I picked up a 2 piece set last week on a whim to try them out -- PH2 and a 1/4 slotted one -- both medium. They seem nice. Just used the Phillips once. The 2 tool set was on sale for $2.99.

I bought a few of the Quinn bottle openers as stocking stuffers. I haven't bought any of the Quinn or Doyle tools in other categories yet, but I will probably buy some to check out and use in my portable box.

 

[sberry]

Many of us have been there seeing chinese tools just twisting and breaking away in our hands vs something using quality materials, and many have discussed about the chinese using inferior metals.

Seeing it and using them,,, not so much, discussing it lots. I have never broken a common combo wrench by hand and you got to be pretty manly to twist one.

 

[rlitman]

Seeing it and using them,,, not so much, discussing it lots. I have never broken a common combo wrench by hand and you got to be pretty manly to twist one.

I've seen a broken combo wrench, but only caused by a defect in the forging. The bigger issue with cheap combo wrenches is that the open ended jaws spread too easily, leading to fastener rounding. But they don't break.

 

[Jeffksf]

I picked up a 2 piece set last week on a whim to try them out -- PH2 and a 1/4 slotted one -- both medium. They seem nice. Just used the Phillips once.

I bought a few of the Quinn bottle openers as stocking stuffers.

I picked one of those up too, since my FIL last name is Quinn, it was perfect.

 

[RonRock]

Whats the word on HF Torx sockets? I need some today that I don't have already.

 

[zendriver]

Whats the word on HF Torx sockets? I need some today that I don't have already.

I have the impact set they work great.


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[sberry]

I havnt used a lot of hardline HF tools, ones I did worked. I have used bits from Wally as needed thinking I would upgrade them, still in use 20 yrs later. Used a metric hex today.

 

[sberry]

I've seen a broken combo wrench, but only caused by a defect in the forging. The bigger issue with cheap combo wrenches is that the open ended jaws spread too easily, leading to fastener rounding. But they don't break.

I have seen them broke from backing up impact. I never spread them, in fact the only spread wrench I have is a snap and its likely it got that way from someone doing something they shouldn't. I probably have 50 cheap wrenches we use regular, they work very good and used in a rugged environment.
I also bought some screwdrivers there recently, so far very good. At 1.50$ they are downright impressive.

 

[bczygan]

The fact is that my tool list would be a whole lot shorter without them.

If forced to buy only USA tools, I could barely afford to buy basic homeowner maintenance stuff.

HF is NOT SO. But most of their stuff is more then adequate for homeowner use.

See my list linked below.

Bill

 

[Mr Ratchet]

In response to OP, yes. The Pittsburgh Pro ratchets, 25" breaker bar, Doyle and icon pliers, even some screwdrivers etc are way better than what they used to offer. I pretty much won't buy anything that plugs into a wall there, or chrone sockets and wrenches but I am pretty confident they will change that in the future...

Agreed for the most part. The exception to the plug in is the 12" disc sander. https://www.harborfreight.com/power...direct-drive-bench-top-disc-sander-43468.html I have the prior version and it's actually been a very good tool that I use quite a bit and have for several years. Other wise I don't have much from there.

I was in there the other day looking at the carts. I stopped and looked at the pro ratchets. They felt pretty decent and did not have a lot of back drag. The direction lever is backwards though! I always thought their chrome sockets were fairly decent.

 

[zendriver]

They are value tools.

They get the job done and they don't cost a lot of money.


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[2ndGearRubber]

In Miami, I would imagine ANY tools are acceptable.

 

[toddmorr]

I'm not saying they can't afford the tools we use, they just don't seem to see the utility in spending 5X more.

exactly, if your labor costs are low, the marginal benefit from expensive, efficient tools is also low.

India is another good example, why buy a Caterpillar if you can pay 10 guys $10 to dig the ditch.

 

[rlitman]

exactly, if your labor costs are low, the marginal benefit from expensive, efficient tools is also low.

India is another good example, why buy a Caterpillar if you can pay 10 guys $10 to dig the ditch.

Actually, it runs deeper than that. Buying the Caterpillar is seen as socially unacceptable, as it is robbing work from the 10 guys who need it.

 

[bonneyman]

I finally gave in and bought a pair of the base line composite ratchets from HF. Gotta say i was impressed. On it's first outing the 3/8"er proved so nice I forgot during the job that it was an HF!

If their new offerings are better, I'd say that bodes well for them.

 

[Wamsutta]

You guys think HF is seriously stepping up their game to have tools almost or JUST as good as Snap-on?

Not in a million years. If you've ever used Snap-on tools, you'd know that HF tools are not in same ballpark or even in the same universe as Snap-on.