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Tap and die set

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SuzukiGS750EZ

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Looking to buy a mostly complete (I know I won't find EVERY size in a set) set of JUST taps in both metric and SAE. I don't mind if they're separate sets and would prefer them that way. The most common sizes I'll encounter on vehicles. This is where the more experienced guys can help me. I want something I can use periodically but something that will cut nice threads. I've used hanson taps and that left a bit of wiggle with the fastener and weren't as smooth as I would have liked, but they worked. I know people will recommend I buy individual HSS taps but honestly, when I need one it's on the fly so a set works best for me. I don't have use for dies since I really only either drill out existing threads to make larger ones or have a fastener I need to make a hole and threads for. So if you could please point me in the right direction. I'm not looking for HF quality. I'd like something nice but not machinist quality if you know what I mean. Thanks in advance!
 
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vssjim

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The Astro sets are actually very good steel I have metric at work along with many many Craftsman/ Vermont American/ Irwin and some assorted special stuff from all types of US industrial stuff but the new Astros are nice and are only the popular sizes
 
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ChrisLS8

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Irwin sets get my vote. Also get the Lang rethreader kit and some tapping oil
 
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matt_i

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I would buy @ Mcmaster carr for ease of ordering. You are going to get a top quality tool that's designed to cut hundreds of holes from new in machine shop duty. Youre probably going to get GTD = Greenfield Tap & Die.

....just saying that a snap on tap nor an irwin nor a lisle are the choice in a machine shop. Will they get you thru a few buggered holes, yes, and they come with a nice organizer case usually, but not the best quality tool for the job.
 
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SuzukiGS750EZ

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I can get the Irwin set for 215 new but was hoping to find a tap specific set for the same price but better quality. I don't have any place around here I can run to in the middle of a project so a set is what I'm looking for for convenience. Greenfield is nice but very pricey. If i did that kind of work all day I'd have no problem investing. Are all carbon taps basically the same quality? Gearwrench, Irwin, harbor freight all the same in terms of quality of cut and durability?
 
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flushcut

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The Harbor Freight set is ABSOLUTE garbage.
I have not used Gearwrench but have used Irwin many times and they work just fine.
 
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DFB

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No doubt many have experienced breaking or chipping a tap, and obviously a quailty HSS is the best

You mention a sloppy fit, proper dia hole size is as important as the tap itself, curious to what drill bit sizes you use. Letter and number bits along with fractionals are all called for. Too tight a hole your working the tap too hard oversized hole minimal thread contact.
 
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Robert Haas

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Can not recommend with enough vigor to invest in a set of tap sockets. Once you start using these on your taps and realize how much simpler it is to use tools such as speed handles, ratchets and even electric and air ratchets to run your Taps

Blue Point Tap Socket complete set
 
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defektes

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I use Champion or Hanson/Irwin tap and dies at work, they typically do not let me down, even when threading stainless.
 
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Kenskip1

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flushcut said:
The Harbor Freight set is ABSOLUTE garbage.
I have not used Gearwrench but have used Irwin many times and they work just fine.
Click to expand...

Flushcut, Exactly which set are you referring to? They have a set for around $85 and a set around $39. Now is this statement being made from personal experience or simply word of mouth. It is odd that watching videos on the tube that many are very well satisfied.When did you use this set last if at all?
I am interested in this set however I require some sort of proof when someone makes a statement such as yours. Have you used the set by Astro?How about Kobalt?Texton?Sir, unless you are able to show some documented proof I will simply have to ignore your comment.In closing sir,if I had a unlimited budget then yes I would seek out a better quality set. However, conditions as they are I am carefully looking for a set that is within my budget.Yes this might include the $88 from Harbor Freight. Ken

 
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SuzukiGS750EZ

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What do you guys think of the astro drill/tap sets? Looks like what I'm looking for but don't know quality or if they'll replace? I've heard ok things about astro.
 
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Coach James

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I have the HF $39 set and have used it a few times a year with no problems. I also have a old, USA made C-man set that is fine.

If I was using them weekly, I would go with something better than HF, but a few times a year, my set has been okay.

Coach
 
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Mr Ratchet

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ez-duzit said:
Avoid ratcheting tap handles unless you can lock them.

Also beware many hex die sets are for re-threading, not cutting new threads. For new threads you generally want adjustable round dies.
Click to expand...

I like my GW ratcheting tap handle so much, I rarely use a standard one anymore. My hex dies mostly older Cman, one Hanson and one GW have all worked for making threads just fine. Granted I'm not making anything for NASA
 
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DFB

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SuzukiGS750EZ

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Still stuck guys... lol. Let's try to keep it under $250, does that make recommendations easier? And looking for taps mostly, but dies are acceptable if the set is good.
 
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vssjim

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i have lots of taps and dies and the metric Astro set i have at work I like a lot and would buy again.
 
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Kenskip1

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ez-duzit said:
Come on! None of us here have unlimited budgets. But smart money does not buy the cheapest Chinese ****.
Click to expand...


Go to HF web site, hand tools, tap/die sets and Read the reviews. 60+ 5 stars.
Sorry to say but the reviews about Astro were not so well given.
 
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DFB

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SuzukiGS750EZ said:
I didn't see any reviews. Maybe because I'm on my phone?
Click to expand...

The buy online link for the SAE set with taps & drills went direct to Amazon

Though there are only two buyer feedbacks neither are very good.

The major complaint is about the supplied drill bit sizes. Proper starting hole sizing is important to thread height, I made mention of the different letter and number bits often called out for taps in my first post in this thread.

I saw no buyer feedback on the metric



I don't know what if any instructional literature some of these new sets come with but I have old Kromedge Craftsman that had descriptive explanations of "thread cut" and recommends a 75% thread cut for average use, it goes on to explain how a full 100% thread cut makes it 3 x more difficult to turn the tap and only yields a 5% increase in thread holding power. Continuing on to say !00% thread height does not give a tighter fit but only serves to overload the tool leading to premature failure.

Also the booklet charts cutting lubricant recommendations for carbon steel, aluminum, Stainless and others materials such as brass, cast iron, rubber and bakelight.

I am a bit surprised that Irwin Hanson products aren't offering satisfactory for your purposes. They often seem to be a common recommendation at reasonable cost vs a lot of import offerings of "questionable" construction quality.

IMHO even having the most expensive made cutting tools won't necessarily provide instant quality performance with out the proper technique and experience.

Curious for the over size cuts you make..is it because its a stripped hole would helicoil options be better?

SuzukiGS750EZ said:
I want something I can use periodically but something that will cut nice threads. I've used hanson taps and that left a bit of wiggle with the fastener and weren't as smooth as I would have liked, but they worked.

I don't have use for dies since I really only either drill out existing threads to make larger ones or have a fastener I need to make a hole and threads for. So if you could please point me in the right direction.
Click to expand...
 
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6PTsocket

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DFB said:
No doubt many have experienced breaking or chipping a tap, and obviously a quailty HSS is the best

You mention a sloppy fit, proper dia hole size is as important as the tap itself, curious to what drill bit sizes you use. Letter and number bits along with fractionals are all called for. Too tight a hole your working the tap too hard oversized hole minimal thread contact.
Click to expand...
The correct pilot size is also detirmined by the material being tapped. That is why good tap charts give the drill size for several % of full thread These discussions don't even scratch the surface of what goes into industrial tapping. Taps come in all kinds of alloys with all kinds of platings and all kinds of thread form variations. Any general purpose hand tap is a rough compromise at best. Even at that a Greenfield set for SAE or metric could still cost $500, 700, 10000. A serious set would have a taper, plug and bottoming tap for each size, not just the plug tap that most sets supply. In hard materials for just a through hole you would want to start gradually with a taper tap before going in with the shorter taper plug tap. The whole idea of a ratcheting handle makes no sense unless you are in a very tight space. You want to cut a few threads and then back up to break the chip. That means you have to keep reversing the ratcheting mechanism. Cutting taps are not ideal for cleaning or straightening threads. Chaser taps and dies like the ones made by Lang(formerly Kastar) and sold under almost every brand are what should be used.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
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ez-duzit

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6PTsocket said:
...The whole idea of a ratcheting handle makes no sense unless you are in a very tight space. You want to cut a few threads and then back up to break the chip. That means you have to keep reversing the ratcheting mechanism...
Click to expand...

This.

Kenskip1 said:
Go to HF web site, hand tools, tap/die sets and Read the reviews. 60+ 5 stars...
Click to expand...

So basically, virtually all those who like buying the cheapest Chinese **** are happy with their decision. :)
 
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Kenskip1

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ez-duzit said:
This.



So basically, virtually all those who like buying the cheapest Chinese **** are happy with their decision. :)
Click to expand...

EZ, Sir, Apparently you are not very well informed.READ the reviews. Have you used this set?This is the expensive one of several.What did you not like about it? What did you like about it? If you have not used this set how can you make a statement like you did?Word of mouth perhaps? Sir I do not make decisions based on other individuals comments but there honest opinion.If you have not bought and used this set how can you make a insipid statement? As stated earlier, read the reviews.I have and the majority are very favorable. The price is within my budget, and the set has a 90 day warranty.I am not a professional however when you need a set you need a set.Apparently the Chinese make better products than you are aware of.HF may have better quality control than others.
 
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ez-duzit

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Kenskip1 said:
EZ, Sir...
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm not trying to convince you not to buy the cheap stuff; you've already decided to do so. And you have stated that you are not a professional. I am, and cannot afford to spend time removing broken taps in expensive parts, though it still happens, even when exercising great care in selecting and using taps.
 
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Kenskip1

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ez-duzit said:
Hey, I'm not trying to convince you not to buy the cheap stuff; you've already decided to do so. And you have stated that you are not a professional. I am, and cannot afford to spend time removing broken taps in expensive parts, though it still happens, even when exercising great care in selecting and using taps.
Click to expand...

EZ, Sir can you recommend a set that is within this price range? My resources are limited and I will appreciate your suggestions. I looked at Astro however there (2) reviews are not very favorable, thanks, Ken
 
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CobraRed

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Kenskip1 said:
EZ, Sir can you recommend a set that is within this price range? My resources are limited and I will appreciate your suggestions. I looked at Astro however there (2) reviews are not very favorable, thanks, Ken
Click to expand...

You're not the OP, so I don't think it's anyone here's job to convince you to not buy HF. But your statement doesn't really make sense:

The taps/dies have 100% positive reviews:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JBNGZM8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The complaints about the SAE tap drill set were focused on the paired drill bits potentially creating threads 1/128th of an inch too shallow or too proud depending on the tap chosen assuming this was a world where tap hole size doesn't change with material thickness.

Besides, on the last two products I've left negative reviews on for HF my review was never published on the site, when my only positive review I left is on the site. HF owns the website where people leave reviews about their products, not sure that's a very reliable source.
 
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Kenskip1

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CobraRed said:
You're not the OP, so I don't think it's anyone here's job to convince you to not buy HF. But your statement doesn't really make sense:

The taps/dies have 100% positive reviews:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JBNGZM8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The complaints about the SAE tap drill set were focused on the paired drill bits potentially creating threads 1/128th of an inch too shallow or too proud depending on the tap chosen assuming this was a world where tap hole size doesn't change with material thickness.

Besides, on the last two products I've left negative reviews on for HF my review was never published on the site, when my only positive review I left is on the site. HF owns the website where people leave reviews about their products, not sure that's a very reliable source.
Click to expand...

Here are the reviews that were mentioned.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JBNGZM8/?tag=atomicindus08-20
 
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Robert Haas

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SuzukiGS750EZ said:
Stupid question I'm sure but are all vehicles made from the mid 90s only metric?
Click to expand...


This one ain't "ALL" metric.:spit:

caterpillar-75c,2447538_1.jpg
 
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