3way switch wiring trouble existing wiring

[tstang90]

I have a 3 way switch set up in my stairway it currently works only with one switch. Meaning the switched need to be in a certain direction each for it to work. I can walk up my stairs and turn the switch on then go upstairs and shut it off and that works. Now if someone else tries to come upstairs and flips the switch from the bottom it will not work and when I go to come back down the stairs and flip it from up top the light also will not go on either. It's driving me nuts so I tried to figure it out today found some online diagrams but none really showed my situation.

I drew up a diagram maybe someone on here can figure it out and help me a bit.
I know the power source but cant figure out how the light is getting fed its wires?

Please take a peek and let me know what you think

Thanks

 

[nehog]

Roughly: the light should be connected into the white wire where it makes that odd bend below the left hand switch. The lamp's black wire should go to the right hand switch's wihite wire, the lamp's white wire should go to the white line wire. The way your diagram is now, it is simply a fuse/circuit breaker testing fixture! (of course, the lamp's green should go to the green wires...)

 

[1969]

Not enough info. I looked at your diagram and can not see where the light drop is. Just a thought...... the electrician might have run the 14/3 thru the light fixture and just cut one of the conductors and attached same to the light . How many wires in each box and what are their colors?

 

[tstang90]

OK i did a lil edit to the diagram above and will attach in this post.

Box #1 at the top of the stairs has 2 runs coming into the box

1 set of black -white-ground
and 1 set of black- white-red- ground


Box #2 at the bottom of the stairs has one run going into it
black-white-red-ground

I know that black white red ground def goes from box 1 to box 2 cause I put power to the white wire and it gave switch 2 power also.


I however havent figured out how or where the lamp wire goes to either one of these switches.
i do know the breaker that controls that lamp also controls 2 bedrooms.

 

[tstang90]

so what your saying is the 3 colored wire set up might loop from switch #1-thru the light- then back to switch #2?
And reason why i didnt see the red wired in the lihgt fixture is cause it was clipped?

 

[MrMark]

You have switched one of the travelers with the common.

The common is a black screw and it receives either incoming power or the switch leg to the light.

The travelers are gold screws and you can't screw the travelers up. It doesn't matter which screw which traveler goes to.

The only way the circuit would work as you describe is if you switch the common and a traveler.

 

[1969]

If what you have just posted is correct, then the 14/3 has to go thru the light fixture OR there is a junction box that contains some wires to make this 3 way function properly. You probably know this already, but in case you don't...... on a 3 way sw you will have 2 screws that are the same color, the 3rd screw is a darker color. Connecting the correct colored wires to the proper terminals is imperative needless to say.

 

[1969]

MrMark .......exactly.

 

[tstang90]

ok so what is my next move to try and solve this problem? or do I need to find a junction box perhaps in the attic if its buried in the wall which I know is not the way to do it ill never locate it.

I know the white from switch #1 is the power source. as for the red and black that go switch to switch I dont know which is the common of the traveler.

 

[MrMark]

You haven't drawn this remotely correctly, but based on your description of what you have in the boxes, you have a back fed three-way light set-up. I pretty poor way to do it, but it should work.

The power comes in via 12/2 to the light fixture. The white N is connected to the white Light N. The black at the fixture is passed thru to the 1st switch. So you will have one 12/2 exiting the light. That 12/2 will go to your first box. It is incoming power and the switch leg back to the light. The black wire on the 12/2 gets connected to the common on the light switch. The white wire gets taped black (because it is a hot switch leg) and nutted to the white of the 12/3 white (which is also taped black). The red and black on the 12/3 are attached to the traveler terminals.

At the other box where the single 12/3 enters, the red and black are attached to the travelers, and the white is taped black and attached to common.

Looks like you got a **** wiring job.

 

[tstang90]

perhaps im misunderstanding you but the power source is coming into the switch #1 BOX. when i had all the wires at both switches disconnected there was no power at the light fixture.

 

[MrMark]

perhaps im misunderstanding you but the power source is coming into the switch #1 BOX. when i had all the wires at both switches disconnected there was no power at the light fixture.

How do you know there was no power at the light fixture? did you open the fixtures wiring box up? Based on what you have described thus far you have two cables going into the light fixture. One going in and one coming out. The one coming in is LINE and NEUTRAL. The one going out is going into your 1st BOX. At the fixture, if you could look at the wiring box, you would see the N from the incoming power nutted to the N of the light. The Black incoming LINE would be nutted to the Black of the outgoing 12/2 cable. The black pigtail of the light would be connected to the White of the outgoing cable which would be taped Black to reidentify the wire as LINE.

In short, there is power at the light fixture box but is being passed thru (back fed) to the switch. The only way you will see power at the fixture with the wires disconnected from the switch is if you could access the wiring box (which you can do without tearing anything up if it is a light can)


BUT you don't need to understand any of this to fix the problem. The red and black of the 12/3 are travelers (at least they should be). the white wire is the switch leg. It should be taped black.

YOu have a switched common and traveler. I know this for a fact.

 

[oleguy]

sorry i have two left hands when it comes to drawing.and i am right handed

 

[MrMark]

sorry i have two left hands when it comes to drawing.and i am right handed

this is great, and correct, but not his setup. If you can draw, draw a back fed 3 way for him.

 

[tstang90]

ill have to open the box again I had it open and only saw one white and one black all wired with the corresponding color wires.

I found a link online it instructed me to disconnect all the wires at teh switches to find the power source When I did that i found the power source and i tested the light fixture at that time i found no power at the light fixture.

Looks like I AM missing something or the original electrican didnt have a clue.

Thanks for the help.

 

[tstang90]

i also found no wires with wire nuts except the 2 whites in box #1 and the connections at the light fixture

 

[MrMark]

How are you viewing the connections at the light fixture?

 

[Snap-Off]

sorry i have two left hands when it comes to drawing.and i am right handed

In your drawings it looks like the bottom one is not right and it is different than the top drawing which is correct.

 

[tstang90]

How are you viewing the connections at the light fixture?

i had dropped the fixture off the ceiling but only saw a black and white wire. I was hoping to see wires so I could atleast just swap the wires around and make it work.

 

[Snap-Off]

Did you already have a three way circuit installed and are just replacing the switches?

 

[tstang90]

no just trying to get the switches to work properly. It never worked right since i bought the house

 

[Torque1st]

I believe this is the circuit you have, very common setup:
http://www.electrical-online.com/3wayvariation1.htm

 

[Snap-Off]

ill have to open the box again I had it open and only saw one white and one black all wired with the corresponding color wires.

I found a link online it instructed me to disconnect all the wires at teh switches to find the power source When I did that i found the power source and i tested the light fixture at that time i found no power at the light fixture.

Looks like I AM missing something or the original electrican didnt have a clue.

Thanks for the help.

You should not have any power at the light fixture if you have all the wires off of the switches.

 

[Torque1st]

You should not have any power at the light fixture if you have all the wires off of the switches.

The power feed in this circuit comes from the light fixture.

 

[oleguy]

hopefly a little better.the white wire from s2 is the white wire in the 12/3 travler.don't forget to tape white from travler redor black so you know it it hot.

 

[Snap-Off]

The power feed in this circuit comes from the light fixture.

Which circuit , the one you posted?

 

[oleguy]

The power feed in this circuit comes from the light fixture.

nope...he said only a blk and white wires in lite fixture.also power comes from breaker in that case.

 

[Snap-Off]

In his situation he said he has only two wires at the light fixture, black and white.

The one you posted has four.

 

[Snap-Off]

tstang90, you said you found the power source......where is it at?

 

[Mickey O]

Call an electrician.

 

[Snap-Off]

Call an electrician.

LOL...............

 

[tstang90]

tstang90, you said you found the power source......where is it at?

it was at switch #1 there was a black-white feeding into the box.





Calling an electrician what a great idea. That would certainly get the job done as well wonder why I didn't think of that myself.

 

[Torque1st]

In his situation he said he has only two wires at the light fixture, black and white.

The one you posted has four.

My Bad, there are other circuits shown at that site. Unfortunately I do not see the exact one he has. I was looking at his original drawings.

Try this one instead:
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switch-outlet/3-way/3-way-wiring-power-fixture-same-switch.php

 

[MrMark]

LOL, he had an electrician. That is the guy's problem

 

[MrMark]

The power feed in this circuit comes from the light fixture.

Yes, this is the only set-up he can have. I don't like it, but it works fine. It's not artistic.

I tried to explain this set-up earlier, but your picture speaks more clearly.

None of this matters, however, as I have drawn this circuit out, and the only way it can perform the way the OP states, is if the common and traveler are crossed on one of the switches. He can solve his problem by just switching the wires at the switch and be done with it. Make sure he reidentifies the white wire with black tape to show it is a hot switch leg. I am assuming that he has 2 3-way switches

 

[Snap-Off]

tstang90......if you haven't done so already, try switching the two black wires on switch #1 (upstairs).

* * * Make sure you have the breaker that feeds this circuit turned off when working on it, the black wire from the set of black & white wires should be hot!!!


I'm only going by some parts of you're drawing (some of it is wrong and don't make sense) and explanations. This is what I think is going on with your wiring.

Warning: I'm not an electrician but, I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

There's a junction box somewhere, where the black, red and white wires from both switch boxes go to. Also, there's a set of black and white wires that go between that same junction box and the light fixture box. In that junction box, the black wires from both switch boxes are tied together and the red wires from both switch boxes are tied together. The white wire in that same junction box, coming from switch #2 is tied to the black wire that's going to the light fixture. The white wire in that same junction box coming back from the light fixture is tied to the white wire coming from switch box #1.

Anywho......switch the two black wires on switch #1 and see if anything blows up. Just kidding I think switching those two wires will solve your problem, unless you gave us some bad info, lol.

* Take this advice at your own risk *

 

[oleguy]

tstang90......if you haven't done so already, try switching the two black wires on switch #1 (upstairs).

* * * Make sure you have the breaker that feeds this circuit turned off when working on it, the black wire from the set of black & white wires should be hot!!!


I'm only going by some parts of you're drawing (some of it is wrong and don't make sense) and explanations. This is what I think is going on with your wiring.

Warning: I'm not an electrician but, I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

There's a junction box somewhere, where the black, red and white wires from both switch boxes go to. Also, there's a set of black and white wires that go between that same junction box and the light fixture. In that junction box, the black wires from both switch boxes are tied together and the red wires from both switch boxes are tied together. The white wire in that same junction box, coming from switch #2 is tied to the black wire that's going to the light fixture. The white wire in that same junction box coming back from the light fixture is tied to the white wire coming from switch box #1.

Anywho......switch the two black wires on switch #1 and see if anything blows up. Just kidding I think switching those two wires will solve your problem, unless you gave us some bad info, lol.

* Take this advice at your own risk *

there is no reason for a junction box any where.the 12/3 should run directly from s-1 to s-2.unless of course you have a 4-way switch some where in the ckt.look at post #33.look at diagramin the link.that is what you want.

 

[Snap-Off]

there is no reason for a junction box any where.the 12/3 should run directly from s-1 to s-2.unless of course you have a 4-way switch some where in the ckt.look at post #33.look at diagramin the link.that is what you want.

Not saying I'm 100% correct and what I posted is the way it's wired or the way it should be wired. Not able to be there in person we have to go by what tstang90 said he found.

This is what I understood from his posts, not counting ground wires:

At S1- there's two sets of wires.
-One set has two conductors...black & white.
-The other set has three conductors...black, red and white.

At S2- there's one set of conductors....black, red and white

At light fixture- there's one set of conductors....black and white


The drawing you're referring to has seven (7) conductors at S1, which is not the case at his house, according to tstang90.

tstang90.....where is the light fixture located in relation to the two, three-way switches? Maybe you should go back and look at the light fixture again....in the box where the black and white wires are coming from there should be another set of black and white wires. If not I don't know what else to think other than what I said before with the junction box.

 

[oleguy]

Not saying I'm 100% correct and what I posted is the way it's wired or the way it should be wired. Not able to be there in person we have to go by what tstang90 said he found.

This is what I understood from his posts, not counting ground wires:

At S1- there's two sets of wires.
-One set has two conductors...black & white.
-The other set has three conductors...black, red and white.

At S2- there's one set of conductors....black, red and white

At light fixture- there's one set of conductors....black and white


The drawing you're referring to has seven (7) conductors at S1, which is not the case at his house, according to tstang90.

tstang90.....where is the light fixture located in relation to the two, three-way switches? Maybe you should go back and look at the light fixture again....in the box where the black and white wires are coming from there should be another set of black and white wires. If not I don't know what else to think other than what I said before with the junction box.

apparently you did not look at the link in post 33. s1 has blk and white hot in.s1 to s2 has three,red black and white.only 5 wires in s1 box.black of 12-3 travler is tied to common of s2.that is all i said.as far as a juction box,unless you have a 4 way switch only s1 box and s2 box is needed.he already has power in s1.

 

[Snap-Off]

apparently you did not look at the link in post 33. s1 has blk and white hot in.s1 to s2 has three,red black and white.only 5 wires in s1 box.black of 12-3 travler is tied to common of s2.that is all i said.as far as a juction box,unless you have a 4 way switch only s1 box and s2 box is needed.he already has power in s1.

I did look at the link, http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/switch-outlet/3-way/3-way-wiring-power-fixture-same-switch.php more than once. The box S1 is installed in, has seven (7) conductors in it. Does it not? Apparently your vision is being effected by too much bingo? I'm trying to figure out his (tstang90's) wiring problem, NOT troubleshooting a properly wired circuit. Never claimed a junction box is needed.