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Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT Mid-Century Moto Mecca Makeover

Workspaces between 485 and 705 squarefeet.
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sakurama

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Gregor: it looks like your incoming power should land on the top of the contactor , then out the bottom of the contactor to the motor. Main power does not go through the pressure switch with a contactor. I can’t tell where the red wires come from, but the contactor coil is activated by just one of the incoming leads hooked through the pressure switch. This activation circuit also runs through the lower contactor block if overload “heaters” are used. I see a red button that may be an overload reset, so you may need the correct heaters for the load. I can’t tell if they are missing or not.

Yeah, L1 and L2 are the hot leads from the wall. They go to the top two terminals and the T1 and T2 leads from the bottom go to the motor. The pressure/power switch is wired from the L1 out to the switch and then back to the post behind the L2. Both the red leads from the top to bottom go to the heater or whatever that is called on the bottom.

I have a call into the people that sold it to me - it's possible it may be bad. More likely I'm bad.

Gregor
 
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sakurama

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Try switching the two wires that go to L1 and L2.

I spoke to quite a few people and finally the tech from the ebay company I bought it from called me. He walked me through the process of tracing power and when I couldn't describe a part he was asking about he had me text him a photo and finally the problem was obvious.

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Do you see what it is?

That strip with the B40 on it is the heater strip and while he explained it to me it mostly went over my head. But the key was that it was missing. Thankfully I hadn't thrown away the box the starter came in because in the bottom of the box - not in the box the starter came in - was a tiny box with this strip in it. No instructions or anything either so I would have never figured this out. I put this strip in and the compressor jumped to life and topped off the tank in nothing flat. It's much quieter than the old Craftsman compressor as well.



Anyway, on to the reason I've been so busy. I wanted to have the new BMW going but the shop progress prevented that. I had a couple of other options - the Rickman Triumph would have made sense - and my XR100 framer. One of the last times I was back east I took another flat track school with American Supercamp. I've done the school probably 5 or 6 times but not in the last 10 years and I wanted to get a refresher and blow out the cobwebs and have some fun.

Long story short it was a blast and I decided to try to race the indoor flat track season on my XR100. I did a few races and have had a blast and gotten much quicker. I'm finding my form and it feels affirming to be able to ride a motorcycle well again. So when the 1 Show opened submissions I jokingly sent Thor a photo of the frame - that's it. To my surprise he sent me an invite.

So here we are - with 27 days to build an entire motorcycle.

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Ever since the class I've been collecting the parts for this bike. The frame was built by my friend Scott Kolb who helped me build my first boxer and taught me much of my skills. It's a small copy of a Ron Wood style flat track frame - a frame designed just for that style of racing. Hence these bikes are called "framers".

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I could have swapped the parts from my current XR over to the framer but Lara rides that bike and I hated the idea of destroying a good bike to make a better one. I could also just source the parts a little at a time but that can leave you searching for tiny things at the last minute. Better to just find a good donor and have all the parts of a bike at hand. So I bought local fast guy, Andy DiBrino's, old XR100.

So before the mill move I was starting to clean up the parts and get ready to build the bike. Here's some photos from that process.

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Sometimes the hub you need comes with a wheel. Corroded spokes are best just cut with a bolt cutter.

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Once liberated from the wheels these Honda CR85 hubs were sent for powder coating. I want to concentrate the focus on this bike being a smaller framer so I don't want much color on it save for the frame which will be bright red. But to give it a little detail so it looks more special I decided to do a light satin gold powder over the obvious silver. It should be subtle.

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With the hubs out I just picked up a single part and decided that was going to be the beginning. The rear brake lever. When I'm using stock parts I will grind off any casting marks and smooth out any scratches to help it look like a single smooth part.

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Then I bead blast it to give a uniform luster.

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I like to lay the parts out as they come apart so that I can snap a photo of the order and direction of things.

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With so much crossover between Honda XR100's and CR85's I figured I could swap the swingarms pretty easily but turned out to not be the case. Since at this point I didn't have the Bridgeport moved in let along running I decided that trying to machine this and make it work was more than I was up for.

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Every day I try to knock out a part or two with the goal being that I can get a rolling chassis as fast as possible. Rolling chassis trick you into thinking you're almost done because that collection of parts scattered all over suddenly looks like the outline of a motorcycle.

It's a lie of course but one that works to help give you energy and momentum.

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To convert from the tiny right side up forks of the XR100 to the much beefier and stronger upside down CR85 forks you need a new steering stem and spacer.

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Thankfully my lathe still worked so I could get these parts done. And then all worked stopped to move the Bridgeport. And stayed stopped as I set the thing up.

I may run out of time on this bike but I'll stand by the decision to redo the shop - for my mental health I need to fix the shop. I came here to document the most important space to me and it's been back burner for a long time. The Bridgeport was like the last puzzle piece and suddenly it all fell together.

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I got the hubs back from powder Wednesday but put every last minute until last night after the compressor debacle into the shop. And last night I started to lace up my rims. I'm better at grabbing some quick shots via IG stories and in fact I'm light on actual photos because of that.

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I got the rims, spokes and specs from Buchanan's and after a couple of false starts and bad puns I got them laced and then after a bit more time I got them trued. It was my second and third rims and I've improved from my first one.

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I still need to do a bit more with them but they're close. I don't have a spoke torque wrench so I ordered one today and I'll finish them when that shows up.

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So onto the forks. I was going to use the ones from my other bike but they're leaking and seem damaged so I'm just going to rebuild the new (used) ones from ebay.

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With the compressor fixed we could start to bead blast again so I put Lara to work on that. I have to say that buying and converting that huge compressor was a great decision. It was a pain to swap the motors and deal with the contactor but it's much quieter, stronger and faster.

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So one fork is completely apart and I've ordered new bushings and seals for that. I'm going to lower them as flat track doesn't need 11" of travel so I will need to cut the springs and make a spacer for the damper tube. I am sadly waiting on parts to finish these so tomorrow I'll do the rest of the work on these and then pull the swingarm from my old bike.

Or relook at the CR swingarm since I have a mill. I mean, I have a great track record modding swingarms...

Gregor
 

Arclitgold

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Dec 20, 2017
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317
So awesome! What’s your Instagram handle? Sakurama brings up lots and lots of Asian folks.


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sakurama

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Oct 10, 2010
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Location
Portland - the cool one.
So awesome! What’s your Instagram handle? Sakurama brings up lots and lots of Asian folks.

Ha, yes. Wish I’d registered that name when I started using it. My insta is just my name: gregorhalenda. There’s two, the other is my photo account which I don’t update much.

Click the link below in my signature.

Gregor
 

Choirboy

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Apr 18, 2013
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178
Location
SE Iowa
I love the cooking posts, I love the house posts, I love the watch posts, I love the camping posts, but I'm pretty excited that we are in for both shop progress posts and motorcycle building posts!
This thread is by far the best TV show out there right now :)
 
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sakurama

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I love the cooking posts, I love the house posts, I love the watch posts, I love the camping posts, but I'm pretty excited that we are in for both shop progress posts and motorcycle building posts!
This thread is by far the best TV show out there right now :)

That's encouraging. I'm amazed at how much people seem to like watching the process on IG. I think it's very much like when I posted a ride report on ADV as we were riding - the sense of knowing it's unfolding adds something.

I tried updating this last night and fell asleep sitting in front of the computer at 9pm. So here we are at 4 am...

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My plan was a to steal the aluminum BBR swingarm from my good XR for the show. I was going to use that to get a rolling chassis faster but that was going to mean modifying it to accept the disk brake which I wasn't keen on. Well, no one had fork seals or bushings that I could get this weekend so on Saturday I was faced with not much I could do.

Idle hands are the the devils work but they also seem be good for forcing your hand - I figured I'd look at that CR swingarm again. I mean, if I was going to have to modify a swingarm why not the one I'd planned on using?

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Maybe instead of destroying two bikes I could just destroy the donor XR100 and use the stock swingarm as a guide or jig. I mean, I have the weekend before parts show...

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The engine is set aside - I've ordered parts for that but they're special order from Japan - they may not make it.

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When I considered the CR swingarm swap I planned on using all the linkage and shock - well, that didn't work because it wasn't going to line up with the frame mounts and the shock was literally twice the size. But what if I could make it so the CR could use the linkage for the XR? That might be possible.

You're going to get tired of me saying this but I ******* love this Bridgeport. I can't convey that enough. Money does buy happiness. This thing is amazing. And having that 48" table that I didn't want means I can machine an entire swingarm without moving my vise - are you kidding? Worth every inch of space.

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So here I'm milling flats off both sides of the swingarm to make it narrower. It was a gamble because I didn't know how thick the casting was here. Didn't break through and feels/sounds solid!

I decided to go with bronze bushings instead of trying to make bearings work. More parts to order, not much of an advantage on a small bike without the need of incredible high speed stability - it's a good solution.

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And I have the right size bronze in my stock drawer for just such an occasion.

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With the swingarm in place I can actually put the shock and linkage in and see if it will work. It seems like it but I need to figure out the physical location. But old school style.

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Distance from end of swingarm.

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Distance from centerline of pivot and axle.

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Hmm should work. Cut off the stock CR linkage mount.

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Mill that flat with reference to pivot to axle centerline.

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Measure an arc to transfer the position to the new CR swingarm.

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Find the new mount in my stock bin.

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Square the stock with my giant *** face mill that I've never actually been able to make a real cut with before and can now hog off a 1/4" at a time with. See, can't help myself.

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Figure out the angle from the flat to the the cast.

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Sorry, I probably put more on IG and when I got into actually make chips fly I was pretty damn focused. I'll try to compile the highlights into a permenent story but my friend Jesse, who happens to be a video editor, messaged me on IG to say I should compile all these clips into a video and put it on YouTube, oh, and he'd love to learn to run a lathe... Really? Like maybe a trade? Like maybe you could help me do a video? I'm not promising anything but...

I roughed the block with the band saw, established the pivot point from my previous measurements and took out the major chunk that was in the way.

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So it obviously didn't fit on the organic shape of the cast part. From here I put Dykem and blue sharpie on and just worked the swingarm in place - wherever there was a silver mark of contact on the mount I would grind that away to fit the shape of the casting. I did that for about an hour. Along with some more milling to reduce the size of it and get rid of excess material.

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With that done it was off to see my friend Heath because I still don't trust my ability to weld aluminum. Yeah, the same guy who welded the BMW swingarm that broke. Which leads me to address a few folks who messaged me, perhaps cheekily, that didn't I learn anything from the last swingarm which broke catastrophically?.

And the answer is yes. Absolutely. Which is exactly why I wanted to do this again. That was a learning experience and I'm now a more knowledgeable person who has more skills and real world test-to-failure experience. What am I supposed to do? Quit?

So changes to this swingarm from learned experience: the mount is thicker - 10mm, doesn't break through the casting, the weld will be stronger and thicker and I'm going to heat treat this one. Lessons learned.

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Heath tacks the mount into place with it all bolted together.

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Yeah, I'm shooting video but with my iPhone. I'm trying to eliminate barriers to video...

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The BMW swingarm was an easy casting to weld but the Honda one had a lot of junk it that came up with the first pass. Heaths technique is to do the first pass to bring the trash to the top then grind it all out with a carbide burr and then you can get a clean second pass.

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We went with a double weave to help increase weld size. Heath worked with MotoCyzz and Quentin stopped by the shop as well - he worked as an American Superbike mechanic and we all talked a lot about heat treating. Something Sean had asked me about before I built the last swingarm. It's very hard to find good information about heat treating post machined or repaired parts when you don't know the material that you're welding too. I was planning on taking the swingarm to a local heat treater and I might still do that but a member here, Ben, messaged me that a simple solution was to heat the swingarm in an oven at 400 for an hour. That will bring the heat affected zone from T0 (soft) up to T4 relatively easily and with pretty much no trouble.

To go from T4 to T6 would require proper heat treating which, if there's time, I'd like to try. At least go and talk to the local pros and see what they have to say. Maybe Ben can chime in here but as a mechanical engineer who loves material sciences and worked in motorsports I appreciated his practical advice and knowledge. Thanks again Ben!

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Back at the shop I put the engine and swingarm in to just see if it lines up. I was a little concerned about chain line but it looks like it will be all good.

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I then spent a good hour or so cleaning the shop which is much easier now with the extra space between machines. I needed to just set things right so I could tackle the next project. Before that though I made the last part for the swingarm - a spacer for between the arms.

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So, that's what happens when your parts don't come quick enough. Mission ******* creep.

I will say that this really gets me excited about this build. This bike is going to be really cool but I have less than three weeks to go.

Gregor
 
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Brian R

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Dec 1, 2009
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Location
Chestertown, MD
"You're going to get tired of me saying this but I ******* love this Bridgeport. I can't convey that enough. Money does buy happiness. This thing is amazing. And having that 48" table that I didn't want means I can machine an entire swingarm without moving my vise - are you kidding? Worth every inch of space."


Your enthusiasm is contagious. Like someone posted earlier all your posts are good but the motorcycle building is really powerful and I like how we see the entire process.


Thanks for posting.
 

Pressingonward

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Mar 9, 2016
Messages
522
Location
SW WA
Looking good. I need to learn more about heat treating and welding aluminum for similar bike-related projects I'd like to do in the future, so I appreciate you sharing your experience and the info you pick up. So far I haven't found a really good guide of any kind on the internet for heat treating after welding. If anyone knows of one please do share. I might try to find an engineering textbook on the subject at some point. None of mine have any practical detail or guidance.

I think you were on the money to get the Bridgeport up and running before digging into the bike project - you're certainly making good use of it so far!

I'm hoping to make it out to the One show this year; I look forward to seeing your bike in person!
 

polexican23

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If you arent on IG yet, do it just to follow Gregor. He isnt much to look at, but the short clips are awesome and a good link between his postings here.

Also i am impressed by his level of detail on his builds. even his sketches have drop shadowing and such. My sketches would get me an F in kindergarten level art classes.
 

macgyver37

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Mar 7, 2013
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609
Location
Pittsburg, Kansas
Gregor, I am glad you are pleased with the big table BP, I have used some of the smaller ones in the past and I run out of room pretty quick. Alot of my jobs are MC and auto related so having the extra space to clamp and fixture the larger parts is very valuable to me. Well worth the floor space.

Now the funny thing is, I used to think the BP mills were a beast, then I picked up a Cincinnati horizontal, at least a couple levels of magnitude more beastly than the BP. I have a No. 2 right now and have considered a No. 3, but the jump is from a 5,500 lb to almost 13,000 lb mill.

Back to your BP, don't be afraid to swing the turret and extend the ram to reach something hanging off the table. I think alot of people are afraid of the time it might take to reset the machine so they don't want to move anything to make the job easier. Well, there is a reason BP made all those parts moveable...

Thanks for taking us along on the shop and bike build, I picked you up first over on Adv I think when you started the 2x2 KTM. I think like the rest of us here, if you post it, I'll read it appreciatively.
 

BORING HOP YARD

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Boring Oregon
I couldn't agree more about the mill, I went for many years without one, thinking I didn't really need one. I had a few people that I know that had a mill or a lathe.
I would think about buy one and then talk myself out of it...……. for years.
About 3 years ago I got a Cincinnati Tool Master and I use it all the time. Its one of those tools you wonder how you got along with out it. It made me go out and get a lathe so it wouldn't be lonely in my shop. I enjoy the **** out of these machines.
 

fartymarty

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Fort Worth
......Square the stock with my giant *** face mill that I've never actually been able to make a real cut with before and can now hog off a 1/4" at a time with. See, can't help myself.

I thought I detected some giddiness here....reminded me a bit of Scrooge waking up on Christmas morning ('51 version) perhaps you should go stand on your head for a bit Gregor. :lol_hitti

:):thumbup:
 

douglawrence42

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Oct 13, 2017
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Evington, Virginia
When the Instagram post led off with the big fly cut, having heard your frustration with the old mill, and my own experience trying to cut stainless weld with an even smaller made in China hobbyist mill, I was giggling. My only disappointment was that you didn’t have the mic on so I could hear your giggles.


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cfloren

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Dec 14, 2008
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Torrance, CA
It's very hard to find good information about heat treating post machined or repaired parts when you don't know the material that you're welding too. I was planning on taking the swingarm to a local heat treater and I might still do that but a member here, Ben, messaged me that a simple solution was to heat the swingarm in an oven at 400 for an hour. That will bring the heat affected zone from T0 (soft) up to T4 relatively easily and with pretty much no trouble.

To go from T4 to T6 would require proper heat treating which, if there's time, I'd like to try. At least go and talk to the local pros and see what they have to say.

Epic stuff, presented in a thoughtful and entertaining way - thanks for documenting your projects and creating this thread!

With regards to welding and heat treating on a machined casting: I'm an engineer in the OE motorsport turbocharger business and we have a lot of customers ask for custom modifications, repairs to damaged parts, and spec changes. We always have to be careful with warping machined features with welding or HT on a previously machined part. Ideally you do all this high-heat business on a raw casting...but of course that's not an option for you in this case nor is it always practical even in my world where we design & source the raw castings.

Whenever a weldment is made close to a precisely machined feature (turbine inlet flange, for example) we always re-inspect the part in QC and document any deviation from allowable tolerances. Flatness, perpendicularity, parallelism, runout, and any other pertinent GD&T is re-checked after welding. If something has moved or warped we can usually get away with a light touch of re-machining to true it up. Sometimes it's too far gone though and the part is scrapped.

For your swingarm I don't imagine the welding would've done anything drastic to the part, because the welds are near the center of a fairly large heat-sinky casting. But - if you do heat treat it to T6 I'd be very careful with the pivot bushing bosses and the bores that your new bushings register in. Maybe there's a way to fixture or clamp this up during HT to minimize warping. Same goes for the axle mounting features, now that I think about it. Would be a shame to warp the part such that the pivot and/or axle doesn't fit correctly or the wheel is skewed in relation to the frame. Something to consider!
 
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sakurama

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Oct 10, 2010
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1,458
Location
Portland - the cool one.
Yes, to all above - the mill makes me giddy. It's rare that something exceeds expectations, especially having used them in the past. Also, I got a gem of a mill. Some of it was a good eye but a lot of it was luck. I got lucky.

Speaking of lucky! I'll be lucky to finish this bike in time. It's seriously about 3-4 months of work stuffed into one month. Which is actually only three weeks. And I have to go to NYC for a few days in the middle. Goal: have parts ready for powder right before I leave.

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With the swingarm done and ordered parts not arrived we had to figure out how to best use the time. Lara was here and in order for us to both have a place to work it made sense to clear off the tool chest island and see what we could to to make that a bench. I had a half sheet of 1/8 steel kicking around and so we put it over the farthest two tool chests.

Holy cow! I know I sound superlative but it was amazing. Suddenly there was this clear bench top that you could use. Wide enough that two people could work on both sides. I put my desk lamps on it and what a difference. The shop keeps morphing into this space that i've been imagining since we've moved in. It's a workshop now - a very functional workshop.

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So with Lara finishing the break down of the old donor XR and the engine kicking around and falling over I figured with all this fancy shop and pseudo professionalism I should make a stand for the engine so I could work on it proper like. This tubing is all the 3/4" square that was in my mild steel short stock bin.

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And that was exactly enough. I welded in two captured nuts so you could just reuse the stock engine bolts and I made it very quickly. It was a good warm up for welding on this bike.

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So the chest facing the welding table holds the surface plate and some tools. The new table top is split so we can both do rebuilding and cleaning at the same time. It's higher - like 40" - which it turns out is a great standing height for working on bike parts. You don't have to bend over and it's super comfortable.

Why didn't I do this sooner? Oh, right, I was working.

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So with plenty to do that's not chassis any down time is spent cleaning and prepping parts so that they're ready to go when they're needed. I'd done the back master cylinder so now I'd finish that up by doing the rear caliper.

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It's also nice that the bench is at the far side of the shop near the bead blaster. One thing I wished I'd done was to put in a slop sink in the shop. There was no drain option baring completely tearing up the driveway otherwise I would have. So I clean the parts and then walk through the house to the laundry room where our utility sink is. I clean the parts, blow them dry, bead blast them with rubber plugs sealing them up, and then they get cleaned again with lot's of soapy water to be sure to get out all the glass bead.

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It's such a good feeling to take a neglected part from ebay and clean it up and put in new seals and then have a part that is as good as new. Nice.

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Lastly I pulled the engine side covers and valve cover to have them powder coated the same soft satin gold that I did the hubs with. I still always think of Ben's advice of having a color chord and so this bike is silver, red and gold. It will be very unlike any bike that I've built but if you remember my bicycle from NYC this past fall... er, post 3317, I enjoy a bike that has a lighter pallet.

I'm at that stage when you realize that you don't have things that you need - bearings, gaskets - the little things that are easy to forget but stop the whole process in it's tracks if you don't have them. Those things will take a week or more to get and if any little thing gets in the way of another process you really screw yourself. I'm trying to be proactive and I'm ordering things as I think of them - every day boxes show up with bike parts. It's out of hand.

Also, did I mention how much I love the new compressor? Wow, the bead blaster actually works like magic now. I'm amazed at how much more power it has and how much quieter it is. I need to get a good water separator now... Suggestions?

Okay, tomorrow we need to wrap up as much of the small things as possible so when the fork parts show up Wednesday we can rip into getting the chassis going.

Gregor
 
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Gregor, I'm not getting updates through my email regularly like I used to a couple years ago and just got one on Sunday, only to find out that you needed some help 2 weeks ago and I could have eaten awesome, home-made pizza as well! ****. Oh, and I've been thinking I wanted a drill press, come to find out you were selling yours. ****.

Anyway, I just got caught up with a month's worth of postings and I'm so excited for you and I get your giddyness regarding the milling machine working and the shop space, etc. Feels awesome huh! Oh, and I think it's SO awesome you have such a positive relationship with your sister and that she helps out, along with riding a mc herself. Amazing, and you both are really blessed to have each other.

Every year my drill weekends fall on the same weekend as The One and every year I get there early before 5 and rush around to see everything and make it home to get a decent nights sleep. Unfortunately I'm not sure I can do that anymore, partially because it's getting so much bigger every year and partially because I'm getting older every year and reeeeally need my beauty sleep. I remember when the shows were much smaller and I could see everything and spend time with the mc's that fascinated me and still get to bed at a decent time. So I'm undecided if I'll go this year and that really bums me out as I'd like to see this little bike in person and just be around this large gathering of fun, eclectic mc peeps.

Oh, one thing I gotta say is to keep the doors locked to the garage, or at least impress upon your children that they can't touch the machines without you present because of the damage they can cause. I have stories of when I was a machinist back in my younger days and saw close up and personal what they can do to people. I'm sure you've talked to your children already about your garage, but I just wanted to mention it. Oh, and it makes me so happy to see you with your kids having quality time with them. I work at JDH near Halsey and see firsthand the effects of poor parenting, or completely absent fathers, or parents having no control over their kids, etc. You're doing wonderful things by building up your kids and their self-esteem and allowing them to have those opportunities with you and creating. They're blessed and so are you.

PS. I stumbled upon your Hypermotard thread today but saw that it was missing pics. Are they still available to see somewhere? Also, I was told about American Supercamp earlier this week and went to sign up for it, and just missed the last one on the west coast for awhile, but on the waiting list. You're the second person that said it was really good and I saw that you've been 5 times! Please share you thoughts on that if you would.
Brad
 
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sakurama

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Hi Brad,

Sorry you missed the chance to be crushed by the Bridgeport. As for the machines - they're mostly all on 220 and I shut those breakers off when I'm not in the garage for just those reasons. When I was starting to learn about machining one of the more gruesome lessons was to google "lathe accident" so the safety aspects of the shop are front and center. Also, don't do that.

While the mill and lathe are most scary for their ability to dismember it's typically the drill press or the sanding machine that people get hurt on. Maybe it's worth mentioning here but never wear gloves when you're working with rotating machines. It's a thing I see a lot of people do and the material can get caught and pulled in much easier than a finger. Also, loose hair or clothing.

As for American Supercamp, I always contend that it will teach any motorcyclist more than any other school no matter the level. And it will be more fun as well. I've done many schools and it's the one I come back to. The simple reason the school is so good is that it is two solid days of doing the thing that either every street rider fears, or every dirt rider can do better - which is losing and gaining traction. That is the essence of riding a motorcycle, the point at which you are at the limit and generally when people panic. After this school losing traction isn't scary but fun. It's all you want to do actually.

The March 1-2 class that Lara, Ben and I signed up for are full (and all levels which is rare) but they always have cancellations and if you're on the waiting list I'm sure we'll see you there.

The Hyper thread... I probably still have the photos, they were lost when Apple cancelled their hosting service but I hate going back to that bike because it's the one bike I really regret losing. It was stolen from the dealer when it went in for service and part of what made that loss so hard was that I got the bike from Ducati in trade for a shoot. Quite likely the highlight of my career.

Maybe if I ever get another Hyper I'll go back to that.

As for the house - last year we hosted an amazing little dinner party before the 1 Show and I wanted to do it again but have no time to do the cooking and prepping. I'm considering doing it this year as more of an actual party so more people could come. As we get closer to the date (Feb 6th) check in with me if you're local or in town for the Show.

Gregor
 

Vertigo Cycles

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For your swingarm I don't imagine the welding would've done anything drastic to the part, because the welds are near the center of a fairly large heat-sinky casting. But - if you do heat treat it to T6 I'd be very careful with the pivot bushing bosses and the bores that your new bushings register in. Maybe there's a way to fixture or clamp this up during HT to minimize warping. Same goes for the axle mounting features, now that I think about it. Would be a shame to warp the part such that the pivot and/or axle doesn't fit correctly or the wheel is skewed in relation to the frame. Something to consider!

I'm not an engineer and never finished the ME degree that I started, but please heat treat that swingarm. Considering the direction in which your machined plate is loaded, the failure mode won't likely be pretty, plus whatever happens after the swingarm has unrestricted upward movement. You may very well lose tolerance on the bearing bore, but living in a world with green loctite seems like a better alternative than living with a short lived component on a motorcycle and whatever consequences come of it. You're putting too much work into it.

T4 is obviously a good idea at ~40% stronger than T0, but T6 is another ~40% stronger (tensile) than T4.

In an ideal situation, you'd weld - heat treat - bore...I see a right angle head in your future.
 

Bob Heine

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Gregor, I see you have Milwaukee Fuel tools in M12 and M18 species. A year ago all I had was a wired Milwaukee Portaband but now I have a dozen M12 tools, including a few Fuel models. I like the weight of the smaller tools and the brushless Fuel seems to stretch the battery life and have a surprising amount of power. Not enough to dislocate my wrist but enough to drive a 3-inch wood screw in a heartbeat and a half. As to the lathe and the new to you Bridgeport, I'm having an amazing if vicarious time following along. I also appreciate your reluctance to touch the Rolex. Mine sits in a box now, after paying for a minor tuneup with less than spectacular results. Liane wants me to sell the Rolex (former company gift) but won't let me buy a lathe or mill with the proceeds.
 
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sakurama

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Gregor, I see you have Milwaukee Fuel tools in M12 and M18 species. A year ago all I had was a wired Milwaukee Portaband but now I have a dozen M12 tools, including a few Fuel models. I like the weight of the smaller tools and the brushless Fuel seems to stretch the battery life and have a surprising amount of power. Not enough to dislocate my wrist but enough to drive a 3-inch wood screw in a heartbeat and a half. As to the lathe and the new to you Bridgeport, I'm having an amazing if vicarious time following along. I also appreciate your reluctance to touch the Rolex. Mine sits in a box now, after paying for a minor tuneup with less than spectacular results. Liane wants me to sell the Rolex (former company gift) but won't let me buy a lathe or mill with the proceeds.

She won't let you sell a Rolex for a lathe? Think about that because they are about equal value. One is incredibly useful and practical and the other sits on your wrist. One is 3000lbs of precision steel and the other is a few ounces of brass. I can't think of a more practical swap than selling a Rolex for a lathe.

As for the Milwaukee stuff - I have been acquiring a fair bit of it over the years. When I worked construction with my step father he swore by Milwaukee and back then it was made in the USA so I guess that's when I became loyal to them. My old Milwaukee Sawzall was an indestructible beast.

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That first drill driver on the left I got about 12 years ago to help with disassembling bikes. It's always worked and I didn't give it much thought. For some reason I tend to not think about my Festool stuff unless I'm working on wood - I don't want to mix the stuff.

The other thing is I'm a big fan of leaving a tool set up. Changing bits, or wheels or whatever takes time and thought. If I can drill a hole and then immediately pick up the countersink in another drill I stay focused and the building process isn't interrupted.

I bought that 3/8 right angle impact ratchet and really loved it and used it a lot on the van. Ironically it has made a fantastic Bridgeport drawbar tool for the moment. At the same time I got the cordless grinder which I didn't like at all and almost returned. It's not as powerful as a corded one, doesn't spin as fast and felt different. Then I found that I was picking it up all the time because if I needed to quickly grind or smooth something it was easy to grab - no need to uncoil a cord and plug it in. I started to really like it a lot. Now it's almost the only grinder I use.

The soldering iron was next because I like to be able to solder connections on the bike and not have to drag the soldering station over with all the cords. Iv'e tried the gas powered ones, the battery powered ones and they've all been lacking but this works amazingly well - heats up super fast, gets super hot and lasts forever.

The others I got because they had some big sale and it was almost the cost of the batteries alone and the second driver is strong enough to do real work. I like having dedicated 1/4" and 3/8" drivers at the same time. The small drill is used almost exclusively for sharpening tungstens or counter sinking and the other drill is almost exclusively for drilling.

They **** you in with all the same batteries. They have some very cool tools and I like the stuff a lot actually. Damn, Milwaukee should sponsor me too!

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So yesterday we worked on just prepping parts, cleaning up, sorting and organizing and trying to order parts we'd need soon. I worked on finishing up the brake calipers and other wheel parts so that we could get the rolling chassis as quickly as possible when fork parts show up today. Hopefully.

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I'm stripping pretty much everything back to aluminum. My goal for the bike was to build my first seat and tank from aluminum but I'm running out of time so I'm going to use the Champion flat track seat/tank combo I bought at a swap meet about 10 years ago at Barbar. I'm trying to not cut corners but at the same time I need to find quicker solutions.

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Lara worked on the wheels so that we could get some tires mounted. It's another thing that can make you feel like there's some progress - complete wheels.

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After building the wheels some of the spoke will poke through the back of the ****** and they have to be ground down so as to not poke the tube. Normally I'd seal the wheel with GOOP to make it tubeless but since I'm still new to wheel building I figured I'd not take any chances in case the wheels seat and go out of true.

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So the wheels are done and that feels like a win. The worry right now is that there's a lot that needs to be done that I can't do until the bike is rolling. I can't position the tank until the seat is positioned, I can't position the seat until the pegs are positioned, I can't position the pegs until the seat location is established and that can only be done when I can sit on it... and then there's all the other things like brake mounts, sub frame etc that need to be done but only after the other stuff is done.

The last thing we did was cook up a good swingarm roast.

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I put it in when I turned on the oven so it wouldn't get shocked, left it for one hour at 400 and then turned off the oven and we went out for dinner. So now the swingarm should be in a better place metallurgically.

Today I'll wrap up what I can on the rear suspension, changing out the linkage bushings, cleaning the linkages up and maybe installing the steering head bearings. I will probably also make the fork spacers so that's ready to go.

The other thing I can do is put the BMW back together so I can wheel it out of the garage. Heath tacked up the swing arm for that just enough so that I can move it around. The plan there is build a brace that we'll weld to the bottom of the swingarm, brace it out and build up that pivot, heat treat it and then have it resprung and revalved.

But not right now.

Gregor
 
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sakurama

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I'm not an engineer and never finished the ME degree that I started, but please heat treat that swingarm.

Again, I defer to your cautionary side Sean! Always appreciated! I'd like to do the full T6 but I don't know that I have time right now. I will do that with the BMW swingarm.

I think that I'm going to be good with this on a much lighter bike that won't be jumped and the suspension is correct.

Gregor
 

atv_freak

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Gregor, for what it's worth I asked my brother to take a look at this thread to see if he had any input on the heat treating... he is a Metallurgical Engineer. This was his response.

Ooof. Yeah, when you don't know what the aluminum is it's going to be pretty hard to guesstimate what to do. Aluminum heat treatments can vary pretty wildly. The welded area will have a decent size heat affected zone ranging from some temper to O (soft) and a variation in between. Best bet is to contact the manufacturer and ask the alloy and condition. Heating from soft at 400 may bring you close to T4 but that'll happen after a day or two regardless of heat or not. Many alloys require 8ish hours at 300-400 to hit peak hardness. But, again, not knowing what alloy or condition, it's hard to say.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a294288.pdf

Old Mil specs have loads of good free resources on heat treating.

If he can find a furnace to get to 1000F for an hour, he'd be able to get the job done himself. Just need to know the alloy...

This is my favorite thread on the internet and has been for a couple years... I always look forward to your updates! Thanks for the time that you put into keeping it going!
 

BORING HOP YARD

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Its nice to see Lara wearing ear protection...…. but she needs better eye protection.
safety glasses that go over street glasses or safety glasses or side shields.
I think Lara and your "brother sister relationship" is very cool!
Hate to see her go through having a pit of rust ground out of her eye in the ER like I had back in the day.
Greg
 

Hawk136439

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Really enjoying waking up to your IG stories from the night before and watching things progress in almost real time! Keep it up Gregor you're getting there!
 

Vertigo Cycles

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Again, I defer to your cautionary side Sean! Always appreciated! I'd like to do the full T6 but I don't know that I have time right now. I will do that with the BMW swingarm.

I think that I'm going to be good with this on a much lighter bike that won't be jumped and the suspension is correct.

Gregor

Just something to keep in mind for when you have more time...I was reading a bit on aluminum alloys and came across several sources saying that while 6061 can be cast (into ingots and tooling plate), that it's typically not cast into a near net part and is more typically wrought. Supposedly, A356 is more commonly used for near net structural parts. The point being, that without knowing what alloy it is, it's hard to come up with a good strategy for heat treatment (as stated above)

One of my good riding buddies is an engineer for a company that makes scanning electron microscopes and electron beam machines that are used to cut silicon wafers into tiny slices (micro and nano scale). He inspected a cracked titanium weld for me once by cutting it into sections and looking for oxide embrittlement...I'll ask him if his tools would enable him to somehow discover the alloy in your swingarms. He loves doing that kind of stuff.
 

cfloren

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Torrance, CA
Just something to keep in mind for when you have more time...I was reading a bit on aluminum alloys and came across several sources saying that while 6061 can be cast (into ingots and tooling plate), that it's typically not cast into a near net part and is more typically wrought. Supposedly, A356 is more commonly used for near net structural parts. The point being, that without knowing what alloy it is, it's hard to come up with a good strategy for heat treatment (as stated above)

One of my good riding buddies is an engineer for a company that makes scanning electron microscopes and electron beam machines that are used to cut silicon wafers into tiny slices (micro and nano scale). He inspected a cracked titanium weld for me once by cutting it into sections and looking for oxide embrittlement...I'll ask him if his tools would enable him to somehow discover the alloy in your swingarms. He loves doing that kind of stuff.

A356 is one of the most common cast aluminum alloys; it's a normal substitute or equivalent to 6061 wrought alloy. But Honda may have used something more exotic for the hollow swingarm casting.

You can use a mass spectrometer to find the chemical composition of the alloy; no need for an SEM, but good chance your buddy has access to MS if he has an SEM. If it's 356 or A356 it should be about 90% aluminum, ~7% silicon, ~0.5% each of iron, magnesium, and manganese, 0.35% zinc, 0.25% titanium, 0.15% nickel, and 0.10% lead.
 
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sakurama

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Supposedly, A356 is more commonly used for near net structural parts. The point being, that without knowing what alloy it is, it's hard to come up with a good strategy for heat treatment (as stated above)

A356 is one of the most common cast aluminum alloys; it's a normal substitute or equivalent to 6061 wrought alloy. But Honda may have used something more exotic for the hollow swingarm casting.

You can use a mass spectrometer to find the chemical composition of the alloy; no need for an SEM, but good chance your buddy has access to MS if he has an SEM. If it's 356 or A356 it should be about 90% aluminum, ~7% silicon, ~0.5% each of iron, magnesium, and manganese, 0.35% zinc, 0.25% titanium, 0.15% nickel, and 0.10% lead.

Of course the Volvo guy has more information. I feel we're getting closer to figuring this out as a strategy.

So the last two days have really kicked my ***. It's been a reminder of how when small things don't go well the whole plan can fall apart. Getting this bike done in time really means that everything has to go perfectly which of course it won't and yesterday it really didn't.

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I went to put the swingarm linkage together with the delrin bushings that came in the kit and I probably should have made a special arbor to keep them straight but they were either slightly too large or not straight but they bound up slightly when the bushings went in. The ID of the bushings is 15mm and I'd ordered a metric reamer set but it only went to 13 so in my infinite wisdom at 10pm I decide to just make them from bronze - they'd be better and last longer.

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Unfortunately the only bronze I have is 1.25" so I have to remove a lot of material and bronze, while it machines fairly easily isn't as fast to machine as say aluminum. I was tired, not happy about this choice, and wishing for the days when I could order from McMaster at 11pm and have things the next morning. Here in Portland my orders can take 3-5 days.

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After a few mistakes I managed to get them pressed in and surprisingly they bind slightly as well - perhaps it was the cheap casting of the linkage. I've ordered a 15mm reamer and should have that by Saturday but the other set did show up.

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I've never owned a whole set of reamers, much less any metric ones so this feels very accomplished. Sort of like finally getting a Silver and Demming drill set - expensive tools you'll rarely use but be very happy you have. I went to bed Wednesday night late and tired.

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Thursday morning I woke up excited that today was the day I'd get the chassis together. The day before I'd spent way too long trying to get the bearings on the stem having to press the stem out several times to adjust the fit. With it together I was able to make a cap sans preload nut that was used on the ball bearings and finally the triple clamps were together.

All I had to do was assemble the forks.

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I've never liked working on forks - probably because I don't do it much so it always feels unfamiliar. Yesterday I got really familiar with the CR85 forks because nothing went right. Typically when you pull them apart the bushings and seals come out all together but that didn't happen.

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I went through a foot of delrin making special tools because the bushings needed to be pressed out, they needed to be pressed in and then the seal had to pressed in. None of the tolerances felt right and I literally spent 4-5 hours on one fork tube assembling it, disassembling it, assembling it, disassembling it - over and over. It was a Sisyphean task. Finally when I got them both cut down, spacers made and assembled I'd put one fork seal in backwards and had to do it yet again.

It was a long and frustrating day.

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But finally the forks went together. I no longer fear them and now I think I could strip and rebuild these forks in my sleep. In fact I was rebuilding them in my sleep which is why I'm up at 3am.

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Getting the bike set on wheels (but not suspension as I'm waiting on the 15mm reamer) did not feel like progress or the milestone I'd hoped. It felt like there's an impossibly long list of things to do and barely more than a week to do it. I see photos on IG of other builders with they're fully-complete-motorcycles saying, "only three weeks to go - hope I get this bike done" - Dude, it is done. WTF are you talking about?

I have to go to NYC for a couple of days at the end of the month so my goal was try to get the chassis and body sorted out by then so that the bike could be broken down and parts sent for powder and paint.

Right now that seems frankly impossible.

I'm not going to quit, I know that being discouraged is a part of this process but I'm hoping I can figure this out - find my way back. So today I'm going to move the BMW onto it's wheels with the tacked up suspension and put this up on the bike stand. First things first will be to establish the riding position which means foot peg locations, then seat and then tank.

If I make more progress things will turn a corner. I'll just keep telling myself that and making parts.

Gregor
 
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H1Pete

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Hang in there Gregor! Sometimes it comes down to the wire. I’d like to say something more inspiring but we are all pulling for you.
 

cfloren

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Of course the Volvo guy has more information. I feel we're getting closer to figuring this out as a strategy.

Gotta live up to the nerdy stereotype. I'm happy to toss around more ideas when it comes time to turn attention back to swingarms again. But looks like you have bigger tasks ahead for now...

Keep plugging away and making parts, one piece at a time. The bike is looking clean so far. It will come together. And thanks for sharing.
 
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sakurama

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Thanks. I only have myself to blame for attempting to take on this bike. I had the Triumph which is far closer to done and would have been way easier. It just wasn't as interesting or relevant to me - and I like a challenge.

So yesterday was much better despite not getting too much done. The BMW was put together enough to roll off the bike lift and the XR was put on the lift. It's much nicer to work on the lift and this will be a good test of my new shop layout.

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To get this started I pulled out my collection of stock rubber and springs and steel. Rubber to find a tank mount, springs because I needed some for the footpegs and the steel to make brackets. This is the ultimate in recycling. When I worked at our old shop there was a wall of materials and you could almost always find anything you needed. It's taken a while but I've religiously collected everything that could be useful: bearings, springs, odd rubber bits and grommets and of course metal. It's an amazing resource to have and I found both foot peg springs and tank mounts.

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I found the stock footpegs as well which I won't use but they give me a baseline. Even though Scott made the frame to be a bit more roomy than the stock XR100 it's still not a full size motorcycle so my goal is to stretch the dimensions just a bit more.

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The primary ways to do that are to raise the seat and lower the pegs. Both can only be done a small amount before things go pear shaped. At this point I make a quick triangle of baltic birch and place the seat and sit on the bike. For the seat I'm not going to use the traditional flat and level line of the seat/tank relationship, they'll both be canted up to the back. I like this look because it harkens to the jacked up hot rods of the 60's and 70's and the slight wedge give it a faster look.

For the pegs I'm going to just lower them slightly - maybe an inch which is quite a bit in terms of comfort. I've noticed that upshifts are difficult on the small bike even with the shifter repositioned so lowering the pegs will give another advantage there as upshifting on the start is essential.

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The bodywork is pretty wonky so I've leveled the frame on the stand and then double check the tank. I'm lucky that there's plenty of tunnel on the tank so I can play with raising or lowering it to match the seat line.

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I make a mount that straddles the main tube and is the termination for the subframe. It's a threaded steel tube that I found in the collection of bits and bobs that Scott and given me with the frame. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, those screws are 6mm and I'm not sure if four of those will be sufficient to support the subframe... I can drill them and upsize them to 8's but for now I'm going to keep going. As you can see this bike is very seat of the pants - I have next to zero plan and I'm making it up as I go. Sorta fun and probably likely to have mistakes.

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I tack the mount in position based on where I want the seat. I won't position the tank until the seat is pretty locked in as I suspect that I'll end up changing things. The goal is a 5/8" stainless tube subframe with a different texture than the frame which I'm considering having nickel plated as there's a place that says they can turn it around in a day. So my original idea of red may be going out the window. My bikes tend to be monochromatic so maybe I'll continue that theme.

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One of the best things I did was make a mount to bolt my bender to my layout table. The drilled top has been an absolute boon and I'm looking forward to making the final bench later on. For now I'm trying to get a bend that will match the angle of the seat hump.

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Since I really haven't built a frame myself this is a good baby step towards establishing a method. I really wish that I'd worked with Sean and built a bicycle because I think I'd learn a lot from his meticulous process. The good news is that the bends are symmetrical - the seat is not.

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This isn't an ideal setup. I made a clamping block to hold the tube but trying to get the angles I need within the confines of the vise is not a good way to work. I have limited time so this is the way for the moment. I think an angle plate and rotary table might be a better way. This is an unfortunate downfall of the Bridgeport compared to my Rockwell with it's horizontal feature that was just made for mitering tubes. I'll come up with something but for now - compromise is the name of the game.

So the goal for the day is to get a subframe mocked up and tacked in. I did not get engine parts yet so I can put the engine in the frame and look at foot peg locations, rear brake position and kickstarter interference. It's a lot of interlocking parts that need to work so I have to try to stay aware.

Okay, I'm back to building.

Gregor
 
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sakurama

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Well the last two days I turned a corner on this - it feels like it might be possible again.

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My goal was to get the subframe made and the footpegs done - this would get me most of the way on the chassis and allow me to start to work on all the small things that need to get done.

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I like the idea of building the subframe from stainless but it makes fabrication just that much harder because the material is more difficult and because there's no covering your work with paint.

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I'm using the tape to represent the supporting braces for the subframe. Part of me wanted to match the fork angle to help tie in the back to front and part of me needed to just let the fabrication be decided by what needed to go where. I had to move the lower mounts up to leave room for the rear brake master cylinder so the angle is set by that.

So on Saturday night I was trying to set up my slitting saw and the hex bolt on it stripped. I could not get it off and ended up having to weld some steel scrap to it in order to get it out. I didn't have another 5/16-24 bolt and couldn't figure out any other way to neatly make the slots I needed so I did what anyone would who hasn't had enough sleep would do - I made an entire new slitting saw arbor...

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Only the next day did it occur to me that I could have just drilled and tapped the one I had to the next size up bolt. What's the rule about the simplest solution being the best one? I'm the opposite.

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So finally, at like 1 am, I got these two little parts made. There may have been other quicker solutions, I certainly could have not used stainless for the subframe and just welded it out of steel or maybe just used a grinder to slot the ends (my 1/8" end mill only went part of the way so that wasn't an option) but I spent 5 hours making a tool and then the part with that tool for a detail so small no one but me will ever care. But I will notice.

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My 15mm reamer showed up and I ran it through my bronze bushings and low and behold - the fits are now perfect. Another detail that no one will see but for me this isn't about making a show bike as much as my race bike. Part of racing, most of racing or maybe all of it is about making the best tool for the job. I add to that by also wanting my bikes to be beautiful. So this is a good detail to me.

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It was beyond exciting to get the bike onto it's suspension and see the swingarm in place and working. No clearance issues, and the movement was much better than any XR100 ever. A big win.

One of the ways you can gauge progress is to notice the times when things work. They're always supposed to work but when you're learning that's not always the case and certainly hasn't been for me. I'm surrounded with examples of my learning curve. The subframe is a part that I thought up, then made and it works.

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It seems like a simple thing and for the most part it is - like everything you take for granted - it should just work and do it's job.

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But for me the subframe is more because it's a frame - the goal being to make my own frames - and this frame is very nearly symmetrical, and the fit is perfect. It did not warp and everything lines up as it should. So I have improved. My welds were even and I didn't pull it out of whack and it looks good too.

Small victories.

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One of the things I like to do if I'm modifying a bike is to keep the parts list pretty consistent. I don't want a Honda XR100 engine and KTM footpegs, Honda CR swingarm and Suzuki forks - you'll never remember what came from where when you need to get a part. So most of the parts for XR's are low end but the CR, as the premier Honda mini MX bike, has a lot of good parts. I bought these Honda CR85 footpegs with no idea how to mount them. It turns out foot pegs are harder than you think.

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I found a few sets of foot peg springs in my collection of springs - so happy I keep all this stuff - but they were just the slightest bit too wide so I set the mill up with a 1/2" two flute and shaved off both sides of the inner pegs. This is also another place where I went larger than I wanted and it has worked out - the massive 6" vise can easily hold two parts on either side.

Honda uses a simple "U" shape to catch the back of the foot peg and to pivot. I noticed that the catch, the hook part of the peg (to the left of the end mill above), was rounded so I decided to make the mount with a special cross bar to so the aluminum peg would rest neatly on the round bar and feel solid and not get chewed up. You only touch the bike a couple of points so those should be solid and crisp.

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It's such a good feeling to draw something and then make it. I'm accomplished enough now to make corrections as I go and my fits and precision are all good and within tolerance. When I was starting out simple things like parting a piece of stainless would become an afternoon debacle but now I can see the progress I've made; not just on this bike but in my journey as a fabricator.

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The next part I haven't gotten to but this is the solution of a professional flat track racer. Granted this was Andy's play bike but you'll see this on all the bikes. People who go crazy on their builds will go one step further and put a round rubber peg on. It seems like a weak solution. The problem they're trying to solve is what to do with your left foot that has a steel shoe. On short tracks you just hang your foot off the whole race but sometimes you want to have the connection with the bike - to put your left foot up on the pegs and of course steel on steel is slippery.

I'm planning on making a rubber pad - perhaps from a scrap of tire - and then removing all those tiny set screws and transferring that pattern over to the rubber and then bolting the rubber down onto the food peg with flat head allen bolts. I need to figure out what sort of rubber is most sticky - probably an old climbing shoe. I'll see what I can find but I'm pretty sure I'll come up with a better solution than duct tape.

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So I have a rolling chassis - about a week later than I wanted but at least it's there. Motor parts haven't shown up but I'm going to put the old motor in and start working on setting the foot peg locations, brake mounts and engine mounts. More than enough to keep me busy.

The other thing is paint. My plan was to powder the frame red to make it pop but as I see the bike come together I realized that I like all my builds monochromatic. I called a local place about nickel plating the frame and they said they could do it for $65 so they clearly have no idea but they also said they can turn it around in a day. That got me thinking that nickel would look amazing for the frame and then I'd only have to come up with a color for the tank/seat... white? silver? black? Not sure yet.

But I've made good progress and I hope to keep that moving.

Gregor
 
Last edited:

gearhead1960

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Mar 21, 2019
Messages
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Location
Manassas, VA, a small blot in history
Gregor,

You build is amazing, especially the machinist skills you are exhibiting. I'm curious about your design process and philosophy. I've never build anything this complex or labor intensive, but have seen and enjoyed many others. As a fan of road racing where handling is such an important part of design, how do you know what will work for a bike in this regard? I see much of your work is figuring out angles for the swing arm and forks that seem focused on fore and aft motion and up and down vs. side to side. Intuitively, I guess if you are trying to design a low center of gravity, this should help with the handling of the bike itself, but is there something I'm missing that would explain all the dynamics you are trying to build into this bike and how they work?

Keep up the forward motion and you will get where you need to be, on-time....:thumbup:
 
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