lafester
Well-known member
I saw it but already had the same vise. Actually I just sold mine for $125. That one has been up for a few weeks now.
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300$ to spend on a vise
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JR 42
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Well, the complaints about vintage US vise pricing are spot on, IMO. No comment if GJ shares a lot of the blame- not sure how one determines that exactly, but it's definitely not by looking at google search results on the same gizmo you surf GJ.
Here a good US made vintage vise is usually $300- $400 and has been "restored" (ie spraypainted). Plenty of damaged unrestored welded- repair stuff out there for a couple hundred bucks too. I don't need a medium or big old US vise right now, but would like to own one eventually... if I needed a vise next week, I'd buy a Dewalt, the better Yost rotator, one of the reversible jaw imports listed above, Capri forged, or Yost ADI. I hope to find a 5- inch- ish Craftsman chevron vise, maybe a Morgan, for a reasonable price at some point, 'cause everything else is more than I want to spend.
Guys who hoard dozens to hundreds of old vises and then recommend other people try to buy the same vises they've been hoarding are at best advocating from a conflict of interest, and at worst full of ****. Again, just my opinion.
Here a good US made vintage vise is usually $300- $400 and has been "restored" (ie spraypainted). Plenty of damaged unrestored welded- repair stuff out there for a couple hundred bucks too. I don't need a medium or big old US vise right now, but would like to own one eventually... if I needed a vise next week, I'd buy a Dewalt, the better Yost rotator, one of the reversible jaw imports listed above, Capri forged, or Yost ADI. I hope to find a 5- inch- ish Craftsman chevron vise, maybe a Morgan, for a reasonable price at some point, 'cause everything else is more than I want to spend.
Guys who hoard dozens to hundreds of old vises and then recommend other people try to buy the same vises they've been hoarding are at best advocating from a conflict of interest, and at worst full of ****. Again, just my opinion.
Woah, you lost me at the end there. How does someone who collects vises recommending a vintage vise cause a conflict of interest (Or worse)? The more people looking for good vises makes it harder and more expensive for me to find them (see your first point about prices getting driven up). I don’t care what vise you buy, but when someone asks me for a restaurant recommendation, I send them to my favorite spot. Maybe you send them to Arby’s.
MileHighRover
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Hey, what's wrong with Arby's?!! 5 for $10 on the classic roast beefs. And those curly fries!!
MileHighRover
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Yeah, that one has been on there for quite a while. I didn't consider it given the price and the size. I'm looking for a 5 - 6 inch vise.
The guys in the Vise thread (including, er...Vise) are great. They're stewards for a lot of old things that probably wouldn't exist in the quantities they do given all the scrap metal drives during WWII if they weren't such useful, productive pieces of metal. And there's so much design language and engineering in them - it's pretty cool. I've got zero beef with that crew, and I don't see why you do either.
When I was hunting for my vise, one of them put me in touch with a guy (relatively) close to me who was willing to part with one of his many. I don't think they're doing anything than appreciating some cool old stuff that is amazing to be around, and it encourages people like me to enter the market. Demand up, prices up. Frankly, I think it's less about the guys here at GJ and more about those who see the thread and others like it and try to profiteer, often with really bad, abused old vises or carelessly restored ones, all for big money. I didn't have the time or opportunity to hunt, but I could easily see a day when I find a really cool old vise and slap it on a stand in my garage.
JR 42
Well-known member
ETA, didn't quote him but was replying to Vise here, I'm a slow thumb typist.
Vise hoarders sell expensive (overpiced) vises. "Full of ****" at best refers to the usual tone- deaf vise collecter recco to spend the next six weeks looking at Craigslist, Facebook, Kiijii etc 4x/ day, visiting all the local auctions, and hitting up all the old people you know to find a cheap old US vise, the same way the vise hoarders score their stuff... it's not really practical advice for a guy who needs one vise in the near future, especially in Hawaii. I probably could have phrased that a little better in the previous post.
FWIW, I like Arby's, don't recommend Arby's, understand the reference you're making, and am not picking on you specifically. This **** comes up all the time here.
Vise hoarders sell expensive (overpiced) vises. "Full of ****" at best refers to the usual tone- deaf vise collecter recco to spend the next six weeks looking at Craigslist, Facebook, Kiijii etc 4x/ day, visiting all the local auctions, and hitting up all the old people you know to find a cheap old US vise, the same way the vise hoarders score their stuff... it's not really practical advice for a guy who needs one vise in the near future, especially in Hawaii. I probably could have phrased that a little better in the previous post.
FWIW, I like Arby's, don't recommend Arby's, understand the reference you're making, and am not picking on you specifically. This **** comes up all the time here.
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Nah, hoarders don’t sell anything, that’s why they’re hoarders. Vise collectors buy and trade vises. You might be thinking of vise flippers; I wouldn’t conflate the two groups.
JR 42
Well-known member
Fair enough, I could be a bit off base here. It does seem like the guys who reccomend old vises do occasionally post them for sale on the GJ exchange at the same type of high prices I see locally, but I'm not going to do the research to call anyone out- it would be meanspirited, unnecessary, and irrelevant, and also possibly fruitless (I dunno exactly which guys do what, and don't care). I've got no issues with any members here and was thinking of local vise prices when writing the first post.
To M635 Guy, I wasn't referring to members here, just what I've seen locally... if I ever needed a specific vise I'd ask the membership for help, there's a good group of folks here.
To M635 Guy, I wasn't referring to members here, just what I've seen locally... if I ever needed a specific vise I'd ask the membership for help, there's a good group of folks here.
Shiftless
Well-known member
Vise is telling it like it is.
I have more than a few vises in my basement, but I sell one or two of them once in a while. I’ve traded away more than I have sold. I don’t consider my self a hoarder but who knows what others think. As soon as the shelter in place is loosened up a bit more, I will be delivering a Reed 204 I sold (at a reasonable price) to a young guy who plans to bolt it to his workbench and put it to work.
I have more than a few vises in my basement, but I sell one or two of them once in a while. I’ve traded away more than I have sold. I don’t consider my self a hoarder but who knows what others think. As soon as the shelter in place is loosened up a bit more, I will be delivering a Reed 204 I sold (at a reasonable price) to a young guy who plans to bolt it to his workbench and put it to work.
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OP
Hawaiian99
Well-known member
Any one selling a older well built one ? I'm not sure if 300$ is in the range but maybe ?
Shiftless
Well-known member
Contact fellow GJ member Maui. He might be able to help find one right there on your beautiful island home.
Still the same recommendation.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DMDO9AE/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Has pipe jaws. The six or eight inch will take a three inch cylinder easily. Jaws are replaceable if you want a nice set of copper soft jaws to be able to torque on a shaft without damaging it.
ClappedOutBport
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Arby's is not a finite resource. There is no conflict of interest in sending a friend to Arby's unless you are also planning on going and there is a good chance you won't get a seat.
Well restored ones too. If you're someone who uses vises looking for a vintage vise, and some collector/hoarder/flipper snatches one in working clothes (not beautiful, but perfectly functional) and strips the paint off and sands a bunch of metal off, etc, etc, then for another collector he has done a service. (Assuming the next collector doesn't strip his paint off and sand off more metal to make it 10% better). But for the vise user, he has added almost zero value, yet driven the price to unobtainable values. Mr. Collector claims he is doing the market a service, but he is only servicing fellow cronies.
matt_i
Well-known member
Based on this I'm now going with Ridgid BC410A.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...jnO9FQlAIxhq3cNM83RoCTIkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
This is its bigger brother the BC810A.
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tool_scrounge
Well-known member
So you need a combination vise or a bench vise and a separate pipe vise like shown above. The advantage of a pipe vise is they hold pipe or round objects really well and they are not very sought after, so they can sell for cheap. The last one I sold was for $25 and that took a couple of weeks to sell.
If I were doing it, I would find a nice used pipe vise that I could have sent out via USPS Priority mail flat rate. Then spend the rest on a reasonable quality bench vise. I might even put a wanted ad on the Garage Journal and see what is offered.
If I were doing it, I would find a nice used pipe vise that I could have sent out via USPS Priority mail flat rate. Then spend the rest on a reasonable quality bench vise. I might even put a wanted ad on the Garage Journal and see what is offered.
Lol, wut? Did some vise flipper hurt you guys? Dude, vise collectors don’t buy vises to paint bomb and flip. Vise collectors restore their own vises, to various degrees, and then either use or display them (or both). The fact that you were personally fleeced by some flipper who covered a weld or other damage with paint has no reflection on vise collectors. No one hates people who do that more than collectors. We’ve all been burned by people like that. So I’d advise getting your facts straight or moving along.
quadrcr87
Well-known member
Based on the variety of responses so far, I have summarized the list of Amazon available vises. I too would like to upgrade my old Craftsman china 5" vise that has never done anything well and $300 seems a reasonable budget. Finding good quality US vises seems like a needle in a haystack for someone who does not attend auctions or have friends that collect vises. I frequent craigslist and facebook and have not found the right vise.
The Ridgid does appeal to me but the non replaceable jaws are a concern as I have been known to cut/ grind a little too close. For this reason I am leaning toward the forged Capri.
Yost ADI-6 6" $262
Capri Tools 10516 6" $250
Ridgid 66992 F-50 5" $319
Yost Tools 865-D2 6.5" $229
P.S. Sorry Vise I know this list goes against everything you believe in
The Ridgid does appeal to me but the non replaceable jaws are a concern as I have been known to cut/ grind a little too close. For this reason I am leaning toward the forged Capri.
Yost ADI-6 6" $262
Capri Tools 10516 6" $250
Ridgid 66992 F-50 5" $319
Yost Tools 865-D2 6.5" $229
P.S. Sorry Vise I know this list goes against everything you believe in
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Based on the variety of responses so far, I have summarized the list of Amazon available vises. I too would like to upgrade my old Craftsman china 5" vise that has never done anything well and $300 seems a reasonable budget. Finding good quality US vises seems like a needle in a haystack for someone who does not attend auctions or have friends that collect vises. I frequent craigslist and facebook and have not found the right vise.
The Ridgid does appeal to me but the non replaceable jaws are a concern as I have been known to cut/ grind a little too close. For this reason I am leaning toward the forged Capri.
Yost ADI-6 6" $262
Capri Tools 10516 6" $250
Ridgid 66992 F-50 5" $319
Yost Tools 865-D2 6.5" $229
P.S. Sorry Vise I know this list goes against everything you believe in
That Capri seems like a nice vise but get the 7" versions for increased opening and depth. You can never have too much vise!!
I have both the Ridgid (F-60) and the Capri (4" version); they are both fantastic vises.Based on the variety of responses so far, I have summarized the list of Amazon available vises. I too would like to upgrade my old Craftsman china 5" vise that has never done anything well and $300 seems a reasonable budget. Finding good quality US vises seems like a needle in a haystack for someone who does not attend auctions or have friends that collect vises. I frequent craigslist and facebook and have not found the right vise.
The Ridgid does appeal to me but the non replaceable jaws are a concern as I have been known to cut/ grind a little too close. For this reason I am leaning toward the forged Capri.
Yost ADI-6 6" $262
Capri Tools 10516 6" $250
Ridgid 66992 F-50 5" $319
Yost Tools 865-D2 6.5" $229
P.S. Sorry Vise I know this list goes against everything you believe in
Both are able to handle abuse, but the Ridgid is definitely in a league of its own. The fit and finish, the weld quality, paint quality, etc is at a very high level on the Ridgid; to be expected of a vise made in Germany vs a vise made in Taiwan.
matt_i
Well-known member
Forged is just a buzzword...that Ridgid looks pretty springy if you ask me.
I understand how the part is hot-smashed in a press to align grains in the direction of stress, but imo a vise is designed for rigidity and not strength, if the difference in those concepts is clear in a person's mind.
Not saying its inferior but its also not how I'd build the structure.
I understand how the part is hot-smashed in a press to align grains in the direction of stress, but imo a vise is designed for rigidity and not strength, if the difference in those concepts is clear in a person's mind.
Not saying its inferior but its also not how I'd build the structure.
Forged is not a buzzword; in material science there is a HUGE difference between cast and forged.ClappedOutBport
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I haven't been. Instead I've been following a facebook group (yes, I like vises, and I like seeing them used. It's an unfortunate coincidence that the group is 90% collectors) where self proclaimed collectors do exactly what I described. They'll post about the awesome vise they got for a steal, 20 minutes after it was posted, then two weeks later they don't want it anymore, but it looks nice now and costs 10x the price.
You want me to move along? You're the fella that has told the guy to buy hard to find old vices (gee I wonder why) or get nothing at all. Not exactly helpful.
Dude, when did I say get an old vise or get nothing? Don’t put words in my mouth. We have to stay grounded in reality here. I’m sorry you were hurt by the vise flippers, I assure you I have been hurt worse. My only point is that you keep lumping the two groups together to make a point that doesn’t hold: that vise enthusiasts are recommending old vises to folks who ask about them, not because they believe them to be of the highest quality, but for some other sinister reason. That’s pretty nuts, man.
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LNKMK8
Well-known member
Older used Reed or Wilton (USA) would be my vote
matt_i
Well-known member
Ok so cast iron with C > 2.5% can't be forged, forged automatically says "steel" with its far-out ductility.
But cast-steel vs. forged steel? How would you ever know for sure without an electron microscope?
Also assuming cast nodular iron vs. forged steel, one can cast a bell out of nodular and ring it like mad without it breaking. Control arm parts of vehicles are made from nodular and don't send people careening to their death. It has very reasonable impact resistance.
I'll say again: forged, in describing a vise, is a buzzword.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.
Forged steel > ductile iron > iron ; within you also have pressure cast and pour casting.
Telling the difference between forged and cast steel is a non-point; unless you are asserting MFG might be lying when advertising forged steel?
Factually forged steel is stronger then ductile iron; that makes it a non-buzzword. Just because some suspension components are cast from ductile iron doesn't mean they wouldn't be stronger if they were forged.
I'll say it again: i'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.
seber
Well-known member
In the case of the vise in question, I highly doubt it is forged. Look at the shape and tell me how you would do that. Also you are comparing ductile iron which is not the same as ausquenched ductile iron. Ausquenching adds to ductility and ultimate strength. I believe the real comparison here should be cast steel vs ausquenched ductile iron. Unfortuanately I don't have my references here as I left them for my successors when I retired but I believe ADI will win the comparison.
Edit. I went to matweb and got a fair comparison. ADI tensile is 125ksi yield and 141 ksi ultimate. That compares to 60ksi yield and 72 ksi ultimate for mild steel. Cast steel will be a bit less, forged steel a bit higher in one direction only. It's not even close.
Edit. I went to matweb and got a fair comparison. ADI tensile is 125ksi yield and 141 ksi ultimate. That compares to 60ksi yield and 72 ksi ultimate for mild steel. Cast steel will be a bit less, forged steel a bit higher in one direction only. It's not even close.
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The graph is from the following journal examining ductile and forged cranks; you can bet the ductile iron was heat treated:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44723873?seq=1
Even so, forged steels are quenchable as well. Not only that but there are an array of different grades and quenching styles; particularly when you get into tool steel.
O = Oil hardened
W = Water Hardened
A = Air hardened
D = High carbon/Chromium
Then within there is O1, O2, A4, A6, D2, D3, etc
To compare ADI to Tool steel is absurd.
I think you're point here however is that the vise might not be forged; and therefore you don't want to compare forged vs ductile iron, but really mild steel vs ADI. The vises are certainly not 1 piece forged; they are forged into sections and then welded. Buying forged steel in standard shapes and welding them together isn't that expensive.
JR 42
Well-known member
Well, I'm confused. Are you guys saying the Ridgid/ Peddinhaus, Capri, Heuer, older Yost FSV etc type vises aren't made out of steel that's been forged in some way?
ETA, didn't see Noid's recent post until I posted this... I don't see how the "forged steel" vises would be some kind of cast product, but I don't know much.
ETA, didn't see Noid's recent post until I posted this... I don't see how the "forged steel" vises would be some kind of cast product, but I don't know much.
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PBCampbell
Well-known member
Absolutely vintage U.S.A. cast iron is the only reasonable solution. The weeks, months, years of lost revenue or if a DIYer the backlog of projects because you couldn't source a working example in your budget limitations should NEVER be considered.
Meanwhile in the real world things need to get done. There is no law that will prevent you from getting that dream vintage vise if and when it appears after buying an import to actually get some work done.
There have been several recommendations that are most likely good recommendations. My only caveat would be to forgo swivel bases. In my very limited experience only true industrial vises work well in this regard.
If you want a vise for abusive situations, just get the biggest cheapest import you can find. I'm talking about wailing on stuff with large hammers type abuse. When it breaks or becomes misaligned you won't be out much.
Forged steel vises are a real thing and have been for decades. I have a small ridgid (peddinghaus I believe) and a larger Brockhaus and they are very nice.
The "tube shaped" objects (pipe and hydraulic cylinders) begs for a pipe vise. In my very limited experience (again) bench vises just do not compare. The yoke style pipe vises will be less expensive on the used market, but finding one with 3 inch capacity may be difficult as that is large for most usual plumbing work.
Meanwhile in the real world things need to get done. There is no law that will prevent you from getting that dream vintage vise if and when it appears after buying an import to actually get some work done.
There have been several recommendations that are most likely good recommendations. My only caveat would be to forgo swivel bases. In my very limited experience only true industrial vises work well in this regard.
If you want a vise for abusive situations, just get the biggest cheapest import you can find. I'm talking about wailing on stuff with large hammers type abuse. When it breaks or becomes misaligned you won't be out much.
Forged steel vises are a real thing and have been for decades. I have a small ridgid (peddinghaus I believe) and a larger Brockhaus and they are very nice.
The "tube shaped" objects (pipe and hydraulic cylinders) begs for a pipe vise. In my very limited experience (again) bench vises just do not compare. The yoke style pipe vises will be less expensive on the used market, but finding one with 3 inch capacity may be difficult as that is large for most usual plumbing work.
I cannot believe nobody has stepped up and offered a vise in the 300 range? I understand most people are looking for some kind of deal. But there has to be a fair price for both parties. If you do not like the price of vises look for a nice anvil. And an anvil does not have moving parts.
Shiftless
Well-known member
Shipping kills most of those deals for anything that won’t fit into a flat rate box.
I have a couple of vises that I would let go for $300 but shipping to HI might double the price to the recipient.
I have a couple of vises that I would let go for $300 but shipping to HI might double the price to the recipient.
JR 42
Well-known member
lol, I was waiting for someone to bring up anvils... wish I'd bought one back when $1/ lb was a reasonable and attainable price.
Dude, suggestions were requested. Thoughts were shared. You want to buy an import vise from Amazon I can't tell you how little I care. But if a recommendation is requested on a topic I know a good bit about, I'll give my opinion. You seem to want to give your opinion when you have "very limited experience." That's your right. But I think it's helpful context for the rest of us reading your posts.
I cannot believe nobody has stepp
Shipping aside, many people on these boards would be happy to do that. But offering help has been viewed as profiteering in this thread.
JR 42
Well-known member
Your sarcasm aside, the OP himself asked for help finding an old US- made vise in post 53, and it looks like help is not yet forthcoming.
Shiftless
Well-known member
Just for the record, on the very next post and 9 minutes later, I gave him a solid lead with the name of a vise guy living on the same island, (Maui) as the OP. Shipping wouldn’t be a problem.
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‘What about the fireball vise he says it’s made from Forged steel. How does it compare to the the rest of the top mentions ones? The yost or the carpi or even the rigid.
They are back ordered till June but I have been thinking about pulling the trigger since no one seems to have any experience. I’m sure the are nice for the money but has anyone ever used one?
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They are back ordered till June but I have been thinking about pulling the trigger since no one seems to have any experience. I’m sure the are nice for the money but has anyone ever used one?
Sent from my iPhone using Garage Journal
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