Keeping the HOA happy

[Crackership]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to build a garage outbuilding in the near future and I'm looking for suggestions that will help me keep my HOA happy. It seems like their big sticking point is a clause in the regulations that says the outbuildings must be "in harmony" with the primary dwelling, and it leaves it up to the committee to decide. The current committee interprets that to mean it has to have the same siding and roofing as my house. I'd been hoping to go the pre-fab route to save some coin but the typical corrugated sheet metal isn't going to fly with the HOA. So, my question to you all is this: were you in this situation, how would you maximize bang-for-buck while keeping the HOA happy?

I'm hoping to be in the 800-1200 sq/ft range, in case that makes a difference.

I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, it's possible I just don't know enough yet to formulate an intelligent Google search.

Thanks in advance!
-Dave

 

[gnpenning]

Move to some place without a HOA, or get on the board. You have to satisfy them. The people that want to be on those boards are generally the type you don't want making those type of decisions. With out examples of others doing the same thing you are in trouble if you don't give them what they want.

Good luck

 

[sweetk30]

didnt read your post after i saw HOA . . . ..

no way in hell will i live under the thnb of a HOA

 

[slow]

same siding and roofing seems fairly reasonable. What dimensions were you thinking along with height. Can you share a picture of your house or a house with similar features. What was your budget?

I have seen people put a facade on the front of the steel building to match the house, kinda like a business out of a steel building, but the front it looks like a concrete block building

 

[mcj115]

Let's see...10 members of the board.....could a stack of $50's buy the variance? I'd assume you only need a .ajority so it could be $300 well spent.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Same situation here, only we get a "shed" almost instantly stamped "approved" if no more than the allowed 14' x 16' but anything larger is considered a "detached garage" which has the same aesthetic requirements but instead of a 5/12 roof it must have a minimum 8/12 roof. I'm building a 16' x 22' and spelled out exactly what I was going to do (minus wall height), gave aerial pictures showing the location and distances from property lines. The biggest hold up was the new management company that everything has to flow through, they've been slow and largely disappointing so far. The chairman for the architectural review committee is a friend and I let him know ahead of time what I was hoping to do. I'm not sure if that helped grease the wheels or not but it apparently didn't hurt.

 

[Jinks]

Does that H.O.A. neighborhood still seem like a good idea?

 

[slow]

We call those buildings:
Mullets.

Great name for it!

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

A steel building probably isnt going to work, you need to have the same look as your residence im assuming


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Higgins]

A steel building probably isnt going to work, you need to have the same look as your residence im assuming


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We live in a POA, the garage has to match the house as to color, roofing, trim etc. and the roof peak can not exceed that of the house. There are 2 pole barns and they match the house. You wouldn't know unless the garage door was open. Also, we can not exceed 900 S Ft. with out receiving a variance along with approval of adjoining neighbors....

AL

 

[mike93lx]

Thanks for posting this. We are planning to move somewhere soon that is primarily Hoa's and this is more evidence of why it won't work for me.

I don't need people telling me what my stuff looks like and I don't want to tell anyone else what their stuff looks like.

If you didn't know what you were signing up for at purchase, you do now. Comply, change the rules or move. Thats it

 

[ddawg16]

Lets ignore the HOA issue for a moment.....

And lets discuss stick built vs Steel....which is really what this is about.

Stick vs Steel gets talked about a lot here. Steel and the pre-fab jobs are attractive because of cost....initial cost that is. But as many guys will tell you....long term, that cost savings goes away when you start to factor in finishing out the inside.

If you don't care what the inside looks like, and just want a 'shell' for a garage....yeah, steel is good.

Let's look at your situation.....you're in Washington State....Everett to be exact....close to the Boeing plant? It rains a lot. It's humid....it's cold....it's hot.

Do a search on steel building humidity control. We have had guys complain about it almost raining inside their steel building. High humidity, roof cools off, condenses the moisture....it rains.

Because it gets both cold and hot, one would assume you want to insulate....steel is not as easy to insulate....or toss up drywall....

800-1200 sq ft is nothing.....foundation cost is going to be the same. I personally don't think you will save much if anything going with steel.

Also consider re-sale value. If the garage looks good....matches the house, it will be a lot easier to sale.

Even without the issue of an HOA, I think you would be making a mistake going pre-fab steel. It's not like you can return that pre-fab and go stick if you don't like it. Once you buy it, you're stuck with it.

Do it right up front....in your case, stick is the way to go. It might cost a few more $$ up front, but will be cheaper in the long run.

Oh, BTW....welcome to GJ. I would suggest spending some time in the Garage Gallery section.

 

[MattRMagnum]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to build a garage outbuilding in the near future and I'm looking for suggestions that will help me keep my HOA happy. It seems like their big sticking point is a clause in the regulations that says the outbuildings must be "in harmony" with the primary dwelling, and it leaves it up to the committee to decide. The current committee interprets that to mean it has to have the same siding and roofing as my house. I'd been hoping to go the pre-fab route to save some coin but the typical corrugated sheet metal isn't going to fly with the HOA. So, my question to you all is this: were you in this situation, how would you maximize bang-for-buck while keeping the HOA happy?

I'm hoping to be in the 800-1200 sq/ft range, in case that makes a difference.

I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, it's possible I just don't know enough yet to formulate an intelligent Google search.

Thanks in advance!
-Dave

With no offense to those who said it, I would ignore the "rabble rabble rabble, move to where there's no HOA!" Almost all of the nicer neighborhoods built since the 60's in this area have HOA's. You either need to live on a main street, or in the sticks, to avoid them (and even then you might not).

I would agree with the post about the benefits of stick-built, and I would ask you this: Is the garage visible from the street? Is it something potential buyers (remember that the average American only owns a house for 10 years) will dislike the look of because it's worn down/faded/etc? Slapping a fresh coat of paint and a new roof on a wood garage will put you back just a couple grand, and make your house much easier to sell. I can't say the same for a metal garage.

Also, if you're in Everett city limits, have you checked how big you can build your garage? One of the reasons I bought the house I did is because I've a grandfathered-in garage and carport that're both bigger than you can feasibly get anymore (1080 and 900, respectively). I would recommend getting designs put together for a wooden garage, and then contacting the city permitting department, and see if they'll even let you do it. The HOA might not even be your biggest fight.

 

[L5wolvesf]

I've worked for and against HOAs - making them (remember the board is made up of a lot of different people) happy is not easy and never fun. I avoid HOAs

 

[Stuart in MN]

To the original poster: unfortunately, whenever an HOA is mentioned here, you'll get one or two useful answers to every 100 from people who only chime in to say how much they hate them.

Have you confirmed with the board that outbuildings need to have the same siding and roofing as the house, or is that just what you've heard? I suspect the main thing they want to block is a metal pole shed, but they may be amenable to other types of siding that contrast with the house nicely - say, board and batten or something similar. Are there any other existing outbuildings in the neighborhood that don't match? If so you can argue there has been a precedent. However, if they are strict about it matching, then that's what you'll have to do.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I've seen some really nice looking garages- if you live somewhere where your house isn't a mcmansion and actually has style, the outbuilding should continue that style. symmetry helps, not being the cheapest thing on the planet, etc.

or it can be an ugly box like mine.

 

[Steve W.]

No HOA here, but there is a city zoning code that must be met.

I had started some rough ideas for a garage/shop out back when we moved in here. By the time I actually got the money to start building, they had changed the rules. I had to down-size from a 30x30 with a barn (Mansard?) roof with a limit of 18' height to a max of 750 square feet, and a 12' average eave-to-peak height. Roof had to be a hip to match the house or gable. Architecture of the "out building" has to complement the residence. When I asked if that meant that I had to build a brick garage, I was told that it had to match at least 10%. "Let's see, ... 8' eave height, 10% of that is .8', so if I do a ring of brick about 10" high around the building, I'll be in compliance?" They were not amused. I agreed to a brick front, which faces the road. The contractor that built the shell managed to match the existing brick 100%, so it really looks great.

I was able to work in some attic trusses, so there is a 10x30 room upstairs. They managed to get the stairs built to code. Everything passed inspection on first attempt, so I was pleased.

I don't know if an HOA would have had any tighter restrictions. I felt a bit limited by the newer size limits, but that's what I get for waiting (procrastinating) about 15 years to start the project.

.

 

[SALIV8]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to build a garage outbuilding in the near future and I'm looking for suggestions that will help me keep my HOA happy. It seems like their big sticking point is a clause in the regulations that says the outbuildings must be "in harmony" with the primary dwelling, and it leaves it up to the committee to decide. The current committee interprets that to mean it has to have the same siding and roofing as my house. I'd been hoping to go the pre-fab route to save some coin but the typical corrugated sheet metal isn't going to fly with the HOA. So, my question to you all is this: were you in this situation, how would you maximize bang-for-buck while keeping the HOA happy?

I'm hoping to be in the 800-1200 sq/ft range, in case that makes a difference.

I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, it's possible I just don't know enough yet to formulate an intelligent Google search.

Thanks in advance!
-Dave

A pole barn with siding with a shingle roof is most likely the way I would steer after talking with the pre fab companies about their options.

I assume this will just be basic storage. If you want finished on the inside then built like your home may be best.

 

[LeonardY]

I'm a former Architectural Director for a HOA. Actually COA but lets not get into the fine details of the difference.
First thing is to read your CC&Rs. Understand them. Don't go on what another neighbor has told you. Second, contact your management company. Ask them the procedure for submitting. Once you have that information, you'll be able to make some decisions.
If you still have questions then ask to meet with the Architectural Director and committee.
I was always willing to work with a homeowner. I can tell you good and bad stories about what homeowners tried and did. At the worst case a homeowner had to remove an addition. On a best case I defended a homeowner from complaints from other neighbors.
The best advice I can give you is not to go in with an us verses them attitude.

Best of luck.

 

[Lynden]

The current committee interprets that to mean it has to have the same siding and roofing as my house. I'd been hoping to go the pre-fab route to save some coin...

I'm hoping to be in the 800-1200 sq/ft range, in case that makes a difference

Tuff Shed will build a garage for you that is acceptable to the HOA.

"Custom buildings are no problem at Tuff Shed. Our experienced design and construction teams will work with you to design, manufacture and install a building to your specifications. Please fill in your contact information and a description of your project so a local Sales and Design Consultant can get in touch with you."

https://www.tuffshed.com/gallery/

 

[matt_i]

The current committee interprets that to mean it has to have the same siding and roofing as my house. I'd been hoping to go the pre-fab route to save some coin but the typical corrugated sheet metal isn't going to fly with the HOA. So, my question to you all is this: were you in this situation, how would you maximize bang-for-buck while keeping the HOA happy?

All you have to do is match roofing and siding. I would also add a few windows to it, no sense in making a factory that just matches in color.

Imo that would be easiest with a wood frame building -- Im not sure how a person would "prefab" a 30x40 = 1200sf building...

You could potentially build a post-frame to save on foundation costs but there are some tradeoffs.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Another thing worth noting is that not all HOA communities have the same requirements or enforcement. Where my house is, there's just under 400 homes on 3/8 - 2 acres lots after the last few are finished, 5 board member and about 1/2 dozen committees with more volunteers. Plenty of people have put up sheds, detached garages and many, many fences. It's pretty cut and dry for all but the detached garages which require more detail in the proposal process.

My property up the road is also HOA, has 11 lots between 5 & 8 acres and only 7 homes built with a max of 3 more because a few folks own 2 lots just for more space. All they really care about is not shooting anyone accidentally and no mobile homes. There's more regulations on the books but are largely ignored. My neighbor has a 40x60 red metal barn about 500' from the road (was there when they bought) and while it's technically against the rules, no one cares because they take care of the place and it looks nice.

You didn't mention how big your lot is or how many homes are in your development but I'm guessing those could be factors. I've also noticed that CA, OR, WA, FL and anywhere in the northeast is likely to net more HOA nazis than anywhere else.

 

[gtae07]

I did this--put a 28x24 on a .19 acre lot in an HOA community.

Pull up the requirements your HOA has. Take that document and go through it item by item, design your project to mee those requirements. Then put together a document listing how you comply with each requirement. In my case I had to march siding and roofing, plus there were a few other iems like wall height, roof pitch, and lot location. I showed how I met each one, gave them a couple sketches outlined on Google Earth snapshots, and provided a copy of the approved city building permit. The approval was relatively quick and painless and actually came on the same day I was offered a big promotion.

It pretty much drove me to stick built, but that was fine as I did the framing myself. But if you lay out how you meet each of their stated requirements it takes away a lot of their grounds for rejection. Don't try to fight the requirements; you're probably less likely to get a variance from them than you are from the local government.

Edit: I can email you a copy of how I proposed everything to the HOA; just PM me if interested

 

[Skyking1992]

I live in a rural, upscale subdivision with 4 to 5 acre lots. No HOA, but we do have local covenants that include allowing for a detached building that must match the house. I built a 40 x 50 building myself that matches as close as I could get. Same siding, same brick, same windows, same roof pitch and shingles, etc. I am very glad I did. The shop looks classy, just like the house. I knew the rules when we bought the lot.

 

[jmarkwolf]

I've happily lived in an HOA for 27 years. Being "on the Board" has nothing to do with getting a pass on the published Covenants and Restrictions. If someone on the Board got special "dispensation" for being so, there would be a "pitch fork and torch party" with me at the lead.

I was able to build a beautiful 2-story 28ft x 30ft detached shop on my 1.25 acre lot (chronicled on this site), no muss no fuss, complying with all the rules, and approval by 75% of the homeowners.

The Board can probably issue a stop-work injunction if you don't comply with the rules.

You signed up to the rules when you moved in. Deal with it.

 

[YukonXL04]

No HOA here, but there is a city zoning code that must be met.

I had started some rough ideas for a garage/shop out back when we moved in here. By the time I actually got the money to start building, they had changed the rules. I had to down-size from a 30x30 with a barn (Mansard?) roof with a limit of 18' height to a max of 750 square feet, and a 12' average eave-to-peak height. Roof had to be a hip to match the house or gable. Architecture of the "out building" has to complement the residence. When I asked if that meant that I had to build a brick garage, I was told that it had to match at least 10%. "Let's see, ... 8' eave height, 10% of that is .8', so if I do a ring of brick about 10" high around the building, I'll be in compliance?" They were not amused. I agreed to a brick front, which faces the road. The contractor that built the shell managed to match the existing brick 100%, so it really looks great.

I was able to work in some attic trusses, so there is a 10x30 room upstairs. They managed to get the stairs built to code. Everything passed inspection on first attempt, so I was pleased.

I don't know if an HOA would have had any tighter restrictions. I felt a bit limited by the newer size limits, but that's what I get for waiting (procrastinating) about 15 years to start the project.

.

My city is the same way. Had to build attached so I could bypass the 50% sq ft of the house rule. 1700sq ft garage, 2100 sq ft house lol.
But I also had to brick the whole thing. All the soffit, shingles had to match. But they did let me go with 10ft walls instead of 8ft on the house. I had a zoning rule they missed when they approved it though. Can't protrude from the front of the house. Same thing, I won't live in a HOA.

To the OP, I understand it may cost more up front. But in the end you will have a much nicer product. And will probably help your resale vs hurt it with a ugly out building.
I am actually glad I had to comply to the city. Or I probably would have done a metal building, and in my area it certainly wouldn't help the resale.

 

[dcg9381]

Hi All,

So, my question to you all is this: were you in this situation, how would you maximize bang-for-buck while keeping the HOA happy?

Been there. Your best option is to get on substantial speaking terms with the architectural control committee, which means being involved. When that doesn't work, personally, I got elected to the board.

I'd literally sit and ask the ACC what they will accept. Dunno what your home is sided in, but buildings can be built with brick ledges - for brick / stone facing or for accents that match the trim of your house. I'd bring them a couple of drawings and see where they are leaning...

The other thing you can use is ANY structure that has already been permitted in the past by the HOA. They have to treat everyone the same (legally, although some boards do whatever they want). But existing structures are good reference..

When I bought my lot, the restrictions expressly prohibited steel buildings, but because there was already a lot with one up, I referenced that when asking for an exception and it was granted. Now 70% of the homes here have steel out-buildings...

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, There is no winning in a fight with the HOA, the best you can hope for is a reasonable compromise. Take the advice of dcg9381 and LeonardY and find a way to work with those who will have a vote on your proposal.

Share a few cups of beverage and pleasant conversation, establish yourself as a reasonable person who is not trying to destroy their system.

If that doesn't work get elected to the board and politic.

It's called "Let's make a deal, not let's fight".

 

[F451]

how would you maximize bang-for-buck while keeping the HOA happy?

I'm not understanding the big mystery. Start with the HOA's written rules/regs, if its not clear after that, contact them and get clarification.

Unless you want to do something outside of the rules and regs, then you're in for a fight most likely.

Seems pretty simple.

 

[snorky18]

I don't know if the economics would make sense in your case, but I saw a youtube video of a guy who built a prefab steel shop, then bricked the front of it (which was the only side you could see from the road) to match the house. Complete with a porch light that matched the ones on the house.

 

[glend123]

I would stick build something that size. make it look nice, like your house, and you'll enjoy the outside and the inside. But, build it as big as you can within the rules.

 

[ford33]

A big plus with an HOA is they keep people from building ****.

The requirement to make the building similar in appearance to your home is reasonable. Why not just comply?

A stick built structure is within reason as well.

 

[Lynden]

Imo that would be easiest with a wood frame building -- Im not sure how a person would "prefab" a 30x40 = 1200sf building...

Panelized construction or modular construction.

https://shedsunlimited.net/garage-collection/prefab-car-garages

 

[575cat]

Close thread OP gone , packing up .

 

[ratdoggy]

Also consider re-sale value. If the garage looks good....matches the house, it will be a lot easier to sale.



Do it right up front....in your case, stick is the way to go. It might cost a few more $$ up front, but will be cheaper in the long run.

Resale is important...Very important

 

[Crackership]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the responses! just to clarify some of the questions asked and respond to some suggestions.

I'm actually in unincorporated Snohomish County - Everett being the closest major city. Thankfully that means I don't have to worry much about city ordinances. Heck, where I'm at, I can build a 400sq/ft structure without a permit! But, I want larger and also I have my HOA to appease.

Regarding use of the garage: I'll be using it as a hobby automotive shop. I have a bad habit of filling up the garage (the one attached to the house) with old ratty cars and motorcycles and then my wife has to park in the driveway so I'm trying to move the hobby into a shop and use the garage for parking cars that work.

On the subject of the HOA, I think I was maybe a little unclear - I have no intention to fight them. They seem like reasonable people (they're reasonable now, there were a couple years there where the board was terrible, but thankfully that's past). And I feel that their interpretation requiring siding and roofing to match the house is entirely reasonable - I was more asking what types of structures would allow for this.

I also agree completely with those who have pointed out resale value. I have no plans to move, but plans change and I'd certainly like to do well when the time comes.

So, with all that out there, I guess the question is more: What approach would you recommend if I would like an 800-1200sq/ft structure that:
1. Can be built within the bounds of the HOA's requirements
2. Will allow me to work out there year-round
3. Will keep critters out of my cars and otherwise not cause them to rot
4. Will maintain (if not improve) the value of my home
5. Will not cost a ton

Yes, I understand the last one is in opposition to the rest. I honestly don't know what a reasonable budget is. I would like to keep it at about $25k, but I get the feeling that double that is more reasonable.

 

[ddawg16]

Without a doubt, go stick.

#5 is the only one a stick will not meet. But even then, it's not going to be obscene.

The cost of finishing the inside of a metal building will be more than stick....

Total finished cost? I doubt the stick would be more than 10%.....but a lot more comfortable

Cost wise....you can save a ton doing a lot of the work yourself.

$25K? Half of that is going to be foundation.

As a metric....my 20x25 2-story garage cost me about $12K for the foundation...but that also included about 30' of block wall. Overall, I have about $40K into mine....but it's also 2-story.

Framing and roof are not going to be that much.....it's what you do on the sides that can drive costs up. But don't forget, it's hard to 'upgrade' what you do on the outside later on.

I would start getting your mind used to a figure of more like $40K...maybe a little less if you do some of the work...like electrical.

 

[karoc]

If it was me,I would get some brochures on the materials and maybe samples and different choices of sample for the roof. Take some good pics of your house, so that you can show how close you plan on coming with your garage to the house. Attend one of their meetings with all the information and present your plans to them. Ask them for suggestions,ideals and just be nice and polite.

 

[iowa4x4dieselman]

Tons of good points brought up in this thread.

I built a new house with covenants as well.

To the point about allowing it in the past - Ours states "the fact that a violation of these provisions has not been enforced shall not estop or bar in any way subsequent enforcement of these provisions by any party authorized to insist upon enforcement."

To me that means they CAN enforce a rule on you even if they let it slide before.

Ours doesn't allow detached structures of any kind, i built my garage large on purpose (even though city had to get involved) but my way around this is enclosing underneath our deck (12x16) for lawn mowers/outside tools. It's not "detached" then

For your situation, it sounds like you live in a nicer neighborhood, and if it were me and i was going to do it. I would prefer stick built as well.

Not to say you cannot finish out steel buildings nicely.

Someone in our old neighborhood attached a "pole" building to their house, and sheeted it so they could shingle it, and they did put vinyl siding on as well.

You can make a pole building look in "harmony" with your house if your just looking for storage.

 

[driftpin]

Doing your to-scale site plan on a copy of a sealed survey which shows all development on the parcel, currently, and some elevations of the proposed structure, should help people to see where you're going.

I suggest that you mention this is for storage. I wouldn't say, "I wanna-have two lifts!" I wouldn't say, "I'm gonna construct my race-car in-there!" You probably already-have your extensive fleet on the property, this is to allow you to provide shelter out of the weather for your possessions.

As mentioned, identify that your proposal meets required setbacks, square-footage, % of lot coverage, height restrictions, any style-requirements (siding/roof to match or 'compliment' existing SFR) and access to the building. Some places require an improved driveway from the road to the building, if it's to-be used for vehicles.

Comply with all site development requirements, and be ready to demonstrate how your proposal meets and complies with each and every-one.

Don't forget landscaping. Find-out what the requirements are for adding landscaping. Here in Florida, they have requirements for a certain % of ground cover/xeriscape, native plants; a specific number of shrubs and trees, and the sizes of those, for-example, "trees to-be #1 quality, min. 2-1/2" dia, caliper-measure at breast-height." There is also a list of trees not-to be used, pest species, which in Florida include Brazilian Pepper and some ficus species. Do a bit-more than the required minimums.

For your own usage and compliance with local regulations, there may be a requirement for a retention pond, for runoff water, to contain it on your parcel, and to provide containment so your neighbor's parcel doesn't flood due-to your wonderful new improvements. A retention pond doesn't mean that it has water in-it year-round, it means, there's an area where in the event of a heavy downpour, the runoff rainwater has a place to run-to, on my parcel, to be contained from encroaching onto my neighbors' properties, before the groundwater percolates into the soil.

I would avoid any reference to 'working on cars, trucks, motorcycles, ATV's, boats, airboats, and planes.' Yes, I'm carrying it to the extreme, but you don't want to alarm them by thinking, "He's opening a repair shop in our residential neighborhood!" And for god's sake, don't propose any signage! While "Bubba's Shop of Rusty Repairs" may-be your dream to provide ambience, swinging from a 4" water-pipe pendant mount out by the road, save that-one for display inside the building.

Just study the requirements, meet them fully, don't ask for any variances, and don't talk about how you've always wanted to do foundry work, metal stamping, auto recycling, welding, and repairs in your proposed shop.