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Between 705 & 1200 SQ/FT From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Workspaces between 705 and 1200 squarefeet.

Coolabah

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Jun 6, 2010
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1,370
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2nd Floor, 3rd on the Right,Narooma, Australia
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

I've been reading your thread from day one and have been biding my time waiting for some opportunity for useful input from myself- well you seem to have it all sorted so I thought I might just say "hi" instead !!! Love the "well I can just go ahead and do it" attitude:thumbup:
 
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GeddyT

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Bellingham, WA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

I've been reading your thread from day one and have been biding my time waiting for some opportunity for useful input from myself- well you seem to have it all sorted so I thought I might just say "hi" instead !!! Love the "well I can just go ahead and do it" attitude:thumbup:

You don't happen to know a thing or two about garage doors, do you?... Either way, hello! Thanks for stopping in and saying hi.

Edit: If anyone reading this knows a thing or two about overhead doors, I posted a question in the General forum asking about my sticking door.
 
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GeddyT

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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Well, it's been a week since I've updated this. Mainly, I just wanted to have something finished to post about. When I could fit it around a busy family schedule and getting completely swamped at work, I decided I was going to put my head down and finish getting this DRO installed on the mill.

This mill... It's like the designers had a crystal ball that told them there would be these glass scales in the future that measure travels very precisely and display table location on a screen, and people might want to attach one to the mill one day, so they said, "Hey, this is going to be funny: watch me make Future Person miserable!" Only they'd say it in French.

I thought the Y-axis would be a challenge and the other two would be easy, but all three axes were a fount of misery. I would pick at one until it frustrated me, then move on to another, kind of working parallel frustrating paths. In the end, the one I got working first was the one I thought would be the hardest: Y-axis.

2020-05-24+DRO+1.jpg

I guess if you count the saddle lock linkage, it was definitely the most challenging and time consuming, but the actual attachment was somewhat straightforward. A theme I adopted very early on was throwing out the chintzy mounting plates and covers that came with the scales and using beefy angle iron to replace both. On the Y-axis, that was the biggest and thickest angle I had laying around, squared, flattened, slotted, and drilled and tapped. I was about to waste a lot of good stock making a custom bracket for the reader, but I talked myself out of it and just screwed two of the angle brackets that came with the set together. I had to stagger them because I got the relationship between the scale and reader wrong when I drilled and slotted the scale carrier, and this frustrates me and looks stupid, so lets just ignore that detail from now on.

Moving on, I thought the X-axis scale would go on in no time flat. Noooooope. Figured out two seconds into test-fitting it that it was going to involve some work. There is a drain flange on either end of the table, and the scale just barely wouldn't fit between them. So I removed the flange castings and checked again. Still no. Onto plan B: More angle iron. I bought a couple more sticks, this time just barely bigger than the width of the scales. Cut to length, flattened, drilled, and tapped, I would mount the angle to the back of the table, the scale to the angle, and cut the mounting tabs off the scale, thus unblocking the drain holes on either side of the table:

2020-05-24+DRO+2.jpg

In my hand there is one of the castings, and you can see how the drain hole was now unblocked. But I want to use those drains someday, and definitely don't want them just weeping cutting oil onto the floor for now, so I needed to plug them.

A check with the calipers was good news: The ID of the hole was about .95". If I tapped the holes with a 3/4" NPT tap, there might be enough thread to screw a ****** and cap to the back.

Threaded:

2020-05-24+DRO+3.jpg

And it worked!:

2020-05-24+DRO+4.jpg

And now a shot of one of the more time consuming parts of the installation:

2020-05-24+DRO+5.jpg

For the scales to read accurately, they must be perfectly parallel to the axis of travel. Cumulatively, hours were spent tramming all three scales in with a way-too-sensitive indicator (wish I had one with a larger range).

Attaching the X-axis reader to the saddle seemed pretty straightforward: transfer punch through the reader's two mounting holes and onto the saddle, drill, tap, done. And it would have been that simple, too, had I not broke a tap off in the saddle right before finishing all of that. It was the kind of frustration that had me quitting for the day out of disgust.

The next day, though, I got it installed, albeit shifted a little over to one side...

2020-05-24+DRO+6.jpg

A little cable management for the two installed scale readers...

2020-05-24+DRO+7.jpg

...and I had a functioning 2-axis DRO!

2020-05-24+DRO+8.jpg

The last two days, I've been working on the Z-axis, which I thought would be pretty straightforward, but noooooope. There is a small T-slot rail that the adjustable travel stops slide in, and I figured it would be perfect for piggy-backing the scale onto. After a test fit, this turned out to be not the case. The flexible conduit from the controls to the spindle lever and rapid motor was in the way, forcing offset brackets.

So first I turned some 6061 into a couple of tiny T-nuts and a pile of chips...

2020-05-24+DRO+9.jpg

...and then spent this morning making a pair of standoffs:

2020-05-24+DRO+10.jpg

The slots are to allow for adjusting the angle of the scale when tramming. The 3/8" wide slots. The 3/8" wide slots that were made 3/8" wide because I could have swore that this is clearance width for an M6 cap screw, and a single pass with a 3/8" endmill seemed easy enough.

So off to the lathe to make M6 cap screws fit...

2020-05-24+DRO+11.jpg

And here's the system in action:

2020-05-24+DRO+12.jpg

The top nut and offset sit right above the upper adjustable stop at its highest position, so there's no travel lost.

Once again, figuring out a bracket for the reader was a pain in the ***, but I again made something work by attaching together two of the crappy 90 degree brackets that came with the set, drilling some holes in the mill, and bolting them on. Came out alright!:

2020-05-24+DRO+13.jpg

One more round of cable management...

2020-05-24+DRO+14.jpg

...and all three axes are armed and dangerous!

2020-05-24+DRO+15.jpg

It's not the cleanest install, but it's done and functional. And there are definitely bits hanging out there precariously, but they're all protected with angle iron, so I feel better about it.

Anyway, now that I've spent several weeks working on the mill, I can finally start working on the mill!...
 

mybigwarwagon

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Nov 4, 2009
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Vale, Nc
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

You are much better at documenting than I am. I can start something with every intention of taking a bunch of pics, but next thing I know I am putting up my tools and I took 3 pics of the cat stalking a leaf.
 
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GeddyT

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Bellingham, WA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

You are much better at documenting than I am. I can start something with every intention of taking a bunch of pics, but next thing I know I am putting up my tools and I took 3 pics of the cat stalking a leaf.

Oh, I hear you. But I think your main problem is that you work too damned hard! Reading your thread, you get more done in a day than I do in a week, so no time for photos. Considering I spent over three weeks installing a lousy DRO, I'm actually a little disappointed in how few pictures I got!

I think another thing that helps is that I always buy Motorola phones. Mostly because I'm cheap and they're the only phone that works on Google Fi and can be found regularly for under $200 new, but also because the gestures are second to none: Pick up phone, karate chop twice, and the flashlight is on. Pick up phone, twist twice, you're taking a photo. I still haven't replaced my beloved GH4 (still torn between selling the lenses or buying a replacement body, and I've been kicking that can down the road because I know what the "right" answer is...), so I'm stuck with the phone camera. The downside is that the photos are ****, relatively speaking. The upside is wipe greasy gloves on shirt, take phone out of pocket, twist twice, hit shutter, have picture.

Then stay up until 1:00 sharing picture...
 

larry_g

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Apr 28, 2007
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16,887
Location
oregon
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

That is looking good. When you mentioned earlier that you were going to use the stops track in the Z axis I was hoping you weren't going to abandoned the function. That is looking good. When I installed a DRO on my Index mill I was testing things and found that the Y axis had a lot of Hysteresis . Found this by putting an indicator on the Y axis way and moving off of it and then returning. The DRO said I was on and the DI said I was short. Turned out that the ways adjusters were loose and the table was rotating a bit. Obvious because the read head was on the right and the DI was on the left side of the saddle. Have fun testing and proving that the DRO is correct. You may also have a correction factor that you can use if necessary.

lg
no neat sig line
 
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GeddyT

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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

That is looking good. When you mentioned earlier that you were going to use the stops track in the Z axis I was hoping you weren't going to abandoned the function. That is looking good. When I installed a DRO on my Index mill I was testing things and found that the Y axis had a lot of Hysteresis . Found this by putting an indicator on the Y axis way and moving off of it and then returning. The DRO said I was on and the DI said I was short. Turned out that the ways adjusters were loose and the table was rotating a bit. Obvious because the read head was on the right and the DI was on the left side of the saddle. Have fun testing and proving that the DRO is correct. You may also have a correction factor that you can use if necessary.

lg
no neat sig line

I think, after all this work, my solution to that possibility will be to just bury my head in the sand, not test at all, and assume everything's great!... There's quite a bit of backlash on the machine (probably .050" on X, .030" on Y, and not a lot on Z due to more than 1000 pounds constantly bearing down on it), so if the DRO can get me within a couple thousandths, that's an order of magnitude better.

I think the X-axis is pretty good. I trammed it in to under a thousandth over full travel in both directions. You're right that the Y-axis is almost certainly going to be the problem child. Like you mentioned, that's a big table that has to be perfectly straight. Also, though, the scale is not bolted directly to a big chunk of cast iron but rather a relatively vibration prone length of angle iron (it's a full 1/8 thick, but that's nothing compared to a thousand pounds of cast iron). My indicator reads .0001" over a .010" range, so just tramming it in to the point where it stayed on the gauge the whole travel was challenge enough. Once dialed in that far, though, it was fun watching the needle bounce over a full thousandth just from spindle/gearbox vibration transmitted through the bracket. That being said, at least on the scale side, it is trammed in both directions to within a thousandth over full travel.

The Z-axis? Screw it. Trammed it only in the fore and aft direction (toward the front/back of the machine). I built no adjustment into the other direction other than shimming one end of the scale out and wanted no part of that. The Z-axis is almost always the least critical measurement, so I'm fine with a few thousandths over full travel in that direction. I'm not building rockets...
 

Pressingonward

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SW WA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Looks good from the cheap seats!
 
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GeddyT

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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Looks good from the cheap seats!

Thanks! Sorry for the lack of updates lately. I'm right in the middle of two work weeks that were and will be 77 and 91 hours. There'll be two more weeks like that to follow. So it's going to be near radio silence from me for a while.
 

mybigwarwagon

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Nov 4, 2009
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Vale, Nc
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

So what are you going to do in your spare time?
 

Bigblockyeti

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Upstate, SC
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

That mill and what you have done to it is quite impressive, a similar one came up for sale near me for only $200 and I thought just a little too long about it, by the time I called, it was sold. I'm not sure if it was a blessing or I missed out base on what I've seen you go through with yours?

One question that's been burning in my mind that I can't find an answer to in the 570 posts is what happened to the neighbor that was being a **** and you knew was going to ape poo when he found out the property line gained you several feet that he was loosing?
 
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GeddyT

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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

So what are you going to do in your spare time?

Tell me about it. I managed to sneak out to the shop to square some stock for cutting a battery box last night, so we'll see if I get to cleaning up that mess of chips in the next week...

That mill and what you have done to it is quite impressive, a similar one came up for sale near me for only $200 and I thought just a little too long about it, by the time I called, it was sold. I'm not sure if it was a blessing or I missed out base on what I've seen you go through with yours?

One question that's been burning in my mind that I can't find an answer to in the 570 posts is what happened to the neighbor that was being a **** and you knew was going to ape poo when he found out the property line gained you several feet that he was loosing?

To your first paragraph, I really like where my mill has ended up, and I really enjoyed watching it thrash the everliving **** out of some aluminum with a 2.5" shell mill last night, but I wonder--what with all of the time I put into it and all of the time I'm going to keep putting into it to get it where I want (way covers, table covers, mist/air blast system install, etc.) and all of the time I waste cleaning up after it after every cut--if I wouldn't have been better off skipping the middle man and just buying and refurbishing a CNC mill. It's pretty easy to find an old early '90s or late '80s 3-axis machining center for little more than what I have into this knee mill. The electronics would be garbage, but retrofitting modern servos and controller wouldn't break the bank and probably wouldn't have taken much longer than what I'll end up having into this machine. There are videos all over YouTube of people who buy and refurb 3-axis VMCs for about $5K all-in, and that would run circles around any knee mill.

That being said, I still giggle every time I watch the ol' mill that I have beat the **** out of some stock, so I'm happy. I think even if I do put a VMC in my shop someday, I'll keep this one.

As to my neighbor, I want to reiterate that he wasn't being a ****, and I don't blame him at all for refusing the easement after I read what the power company was asking for. It was a pretty big imposition. It was definitely a ****** situation for ME, but I don't blame him. This guy and his whole family are SUUUUUPER nice, and I've had nothing but positive (albeit sometimes... interesting, as he's a bit eccentric) interactions with him from the get-go. That being said, I'm not even sure he knows yet how much less property he has than he thought he had. As of this typing, I haven't moved those boulders (anybody want some boulders?...) and ripped out those mangled arborvitae and replaced them with a fence on the actual property line. They only stop by that house maybe three or four times per year to mow and beat the bushes back, so it's quite possible he's missed the new property line stake, and it's a near-certainty that he hasn't beaten through the bushes to find the stake at the other corner or drawn an imaginary line between these two stakes that would inform him that a corner of his shed and quite a bit of his front yard are actually on our property.

After five years of racking up debt and soreness building this shop, I'm just not motivated to continue any house/shop/yard projects this year. I'm going to paint the outside of the shop this summer, and that's about it. Everything else is being put off until at least next year. Eventually, though, he's going to swing by his house, see a new fence and hedge in a place that looks an awful lot like his yard, and there's going to be an interesting conversation. We'll see how that goes!
 

Bigblockyeti

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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Glad to hear it was more of an imposition put forth by the power co. than him being difficult for the sake of being difficult. Sounds like it'll be interesting whenever he does find out, hope it's not a big mess when that happens.
 

Bob Heine

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Boca Raton, Florida
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Tom, I suspect most of us don't know exactly where our property lines are. Mine were surveyed, lines identified and fences put up when the original owner built the place in 1988. The city planned a widening project that added bicycle lanes and sidewalks. Lots of people were upset, thinking those things were encroaching on their yards. Turns out my half-acre lot is only a third of an acre and the city can take most of my front yard if and when they decide to four-lane our drag strip.
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wendle

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Jul 19, 2018
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NSW,AU
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Tom, I suspect most of us don't know exactly where our property lines are. Mine were surveyed, lines identified and fences put up when the original owner built the place in 1988. The city planned a widening project that added bicycle lanes and sidewalks. Lots of people were upset, thinking those things were encroaching on their yards. Turns out my half-acre lot is only a third of an acre and the city can take most of my front yard if and when they decide to four-lane our drag strip.

In suburban Australia, they place the water meter and shutoff valve right on the property line in the front yard. It's usually about a foot underground in a plastic or concrete box with an access panel on top at grade (ish).

This would be one of the best common sense measures I've ever seen, even when just looking at a house to buy, you can quickly and easily see where the property actually starts...
 

gearhead1960

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Manassas, VA, a small blot in history
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Funny thing about properties is that no-one ever really knows where their property lines are until there is an actual survey done and the corners are found. My neighbor behind me tried to use his property plat from when he bought the house to place and build a fence. He ended up encroaching on my neighbors property by 15'. I borught home from work a Schoenstadt to find the property corners I knew were there. Until we showed him the corners, he was convinced he had it right.
 

Sportsman762

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Aug 24, 2018
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OH
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

I was a rodman for a surveyor one summer after getting out of college. It was amazing how many property line violations there were. One guy built a stunning sunken brick fire pit.... on his neighbors property. I have a friend who is a surveyor. He has some great stories of property line violations (check your lines before building a house).

Also when finding a pin it does not mean that is the corner. They will often put an offset pin in if the property line is in the center of the road or another heard to reach area. Bob H might actually own to the center of the road, his pins might be offset. To know what you actually own after finding the pins you need to read the property description. This will state if the pins are offset or not.
 

Iron Beaver

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May 3, 2020
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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

I love this thread! I just skimmed/read all the way through and subscribed, well worth it.

One comment: I think Dufour is actually "The forge" and not "The flower".

Edit: Actually, I should have said "From the forge"
 
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amkluttz

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Sep 8, 2014
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Concord, NC
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Turns out my half-acre lot is only a third of an acre and the city can take most of my front yard if and when they decide to four-lane our drag strip.



It still absolutely amazes me that anybody, especially a city, can take any amount of property that you bought and paid for... and continue to pay property taxes on. To me that is nothing less than theft.
 
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GeddyT

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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

I see my thread is attracting all the forum comedians! No complaints from me other than the coffee I have to clean off my screen...

Welcome aboard, Iron Beaver (speaking of things you say that are grounds for divorce...)!

Wendle, my water meter and shutoff valve are in a plastic box just as you describe, right on the north property line but offset a few feet from the west property line. Mine happens to house a family of really cool looking salamanders (black with bright yellow stripes) that I "borrow" from time to time when my kids' friends come over, letting them hold a salamander for a while and then returning them to their home. I haven't checked on them this year (knock on wood!), but they've been there the previous three. I just ordered a pressure reducing valve for the shop water supply (>200 psi is probably wreaking havoc on my water heater and toilet internals), so I'll be saying hi to those salamanders soon enough.

Looks like I'll be working from home through the weekend, so I might have time to poke around in the shop a bit and check in here after all.
 

Clemson13

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May 30, 2015
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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

It still absolutely amazes me that anybody, especially a city, can take any amount of property that you bought and paid for... and continue to pay property taxes on. To me that is nothing less than theft.

I suspect that in this case either the right of way was already there or that he really didnt own the whole lot.

I agree with the sentiment that it is wrong for the government to take anything that we citizens bought. In general though, these type of instances come down to people not having their property surveyed and not knowing exactly what easements exist. That isnt the governments problem, its the purchasers who overpaid for a property they miscalculated.

Eminent domain on the other hand :mad:
 

Bob Heine

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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

I suspect that in this case either the right of way was already there or that he really didnt own the whole lot.

I agree with the sentiment that it is wrong for the government to take anything that we citizens bought. In general though, these type of instances come down to people not having their property surveyed and not knowing exactly what easements exist. That isnt the governments problem, its the purchasers who overpaid for a property they miscalculated.

Eminent domain on the other hand :mad:
Clemson13, I was fully aware of the right-of-way when we bought the house because the city already had approval for the bike path widening and the sidewalks, which required me to re-do the sprinkler system so the swale would stay green. Before our widening project got started an avenue east of us was widened to four lanes with a divider down the center. Some of the homeowners had the city pave their whole front yard so they could park more than two vehicles.
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The previous owner had the property surveyed six months before I bought it. He wanted to build the shed with legal setbacks from the side and back property lines (including the power company easement). I was only posting the information because many people think they have bigger lots than they really do and believe existing fences or structures are on their property.
 

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GeddyT

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Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Well, this one's been a long time coming. Probably going to break it up into parts due to time constraints.

I mostly haven't updated this thread in some time because of a busy and stressful stretch at work that just kept getting more busy and more stressful. In the end, I worked 24 straight days, with two of them being pretty short days and the rest being at least 12 hours. Sometimes staying late, always being driven by management to deliver way more than was possible.

In the beginning, I was mostly working from home, so I carved out time to take breaks in the shop or with the kids (homeschooling and whatnot). For the last two weeks, it was the long commute, 13 hour or longer days, and tons of stress.

But enough bumming everyone out, let's review what I did with my meager shop time!

Like I said, at first it seemed like I'd have lots of time here and there around working from home to poke at various projects, so I got ambitious and invited Joey over to help me get Andrew's supermoto down off the shelves so I could finally rewire it and get it running again. I've decided to prioritize my projects by the sheer volume of guilt I feel by not having it finished, and Andrew's bike has been awaiting a re-wire for going on two years now...

2020-06-22+01+bike+down.jpg

But getting the bike down and staring at it for some time, deep in thought, was about as far as I got on that project for a while because--SQUIRREL!

Out of nowhere, both of my kids suddenly rekindled an interest in riding their electric dirt bike. I think it was because my son had friends coming over, and they all think it's super awesome, so he needed to show off.

The problem is the bike's battery pack was totally shot, and I've been unmotivated to do anything about it because the kids haven't seemed to want to ride in some time. Originally, these bikes come with heavy SLA batteries. The exact same ones you'd find in a computer BMS. This bike is a 36V model, so three of these in series. I immediately yanked those suckers out and replaced them with three LiFePO4 motorcycle starter batteries.

This, it turns out, was dumb. Getting way too elaborate, I wired the batteries both in parallel and series, with a heavy duty switch, and wired three connectors from a 4-way LiFePO4 charger into a single connector to plug into the bike. I figured this would balance the charging, charging each 12V battery individually and relying on the batteries' individual overdischarge protection circuits.

It didn't work. The batteries claimed to have protection circuits, but they clearly didn't work, as one of the three batteries went ****-up way earlier than it should have, and the bike was at the point of only lasting about five minutes before quitting.

So time for OSET traction battery 3.0:

2020-06-22+02+battery+1.jpg

That's 50 Samsung high-discharge 18650 cells in terminal holders so I wouldn't have to buy a spot welder (wish I would have bought a spot welder...). Organized in 10s5p, this would make a 20 Ah pack, which would remain meaningless to me until the kids gave it an endurance run.

The finished arrangement, measuring 36 volts as planned:

2020-06-22+03+battery+2.jpg

The key to making a pack like this work is a battery management system (BMS), a circuit board that keeps the individual parallel cell groups balanced and prevents them from overcharging and overdischarging. The BMS I bought came with wire leads that were too heavy gauge for the wire connectors that came with the terminal holder kit, so I milled bus bars out of aluminum:

2020-06-22+04+battery+3.jpg

A sheet of bubble wrap between the cell pack and the BMS, wire up each of the BMS leads to each group of parallel cells, then wrap the whole thing in Kapton tape, and it's ready for heat shrink (or duct tape over bubble wrap if you're cheap like me) and mounting in the bike:

2020-06-22+05+battery+4.jpg

The end result exceeded most expectations! I was hoping to get a slight kick in power due to the higher discharge rate of these cells, but it seems this bike is controller/motor limited, so no change there. On the other hand, this pack appears to be bottomless, and the kids have been taking turns putting serious hours on this bike every day that it hasn't rained. To the point where I'm seriously considering a new project to put a 72V pack and 3 kW motor into a 65 chassis. Should have it ready in time to be a sweet college graduation present!...
 

mybigwarwagon

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Nov 4, 2009
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Location
Vale, Nc
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Stick your tongue on it to see if it has a charge. Make sure you video it.
 

Arclitgold

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
317
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Sorry to hear about the work schedule. Sounds bad!! :(


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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GeddyT

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Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,243
Location
Bellingham, WA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Stick your tongue on it to see if it has a charge. Make sure you video it.

I'm maybe one or two molecules of grey matter too smart for that trick! It may have zapped my finger once, though, although it might have been all in my head.

Sorry to hear about the work schedule. Sounds bad!! :(

It was truly awful, but I'm used to working a schedule like that for a few weeks two or three times per year. It was more the pressure and stress of this particular shutdown that got to me. Anyway, it's over now, and I'm back to working-from-home semi-retirement...

Next chapter:

Remember the chickens? I thought my small, pathetic animal phase was behind me thanks to the local hawks and coyotes, but nooooope. Right in the middle of my work fiasco, my daughter turned eight. And what she really wanted? A bunny.

I have made it very clear what my rule for pets is: No cages, tanks, or aquariums in my house. When MGT pointed out that the rabbit's cage would be outside and therefore not in violation of the rules, I told her she was full of ****, and that rabbit would be in the house the first time I went to work. So no way. No, no, no, no, no.

So here's my daughter's freaking rabbits:

2020-06-22+06+rabbits+1.jpg

That's right. "Rabbits." With an S. Two. The lady MGT bought them from insisted that they go out in pairs because they were too bonded to each other.

I stayed up late the night before her birthday, building the hutch that she had ordered online, then I promised that it would be my last involvement. We'll see... The hutch sits under the shop eaves, facing the house for easy access.

2020-06-22+07+rabbits+2.jpg

And this is one of the dogs displaying a rare moment of restraint. It's all we can do to keep their noses off the fence 24/7:

2020-06-22+08+rabbits+3.jpg

How long was it before there was a rabbit in my house?

First. Day.
 

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,707
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

We raise meat rabbits. They come inside and go in the freezer.
Uncle Willie, I told my children it was a skinny chicken. Best not to serve it for the first time anywhere near Easter. To get the kids to try it, call it Hasenpfeffer or Lapin a La Cocotte rather than Rabbit Stew. Resist the urge to hum "Here Comes Peter Cottontail" when serving it.

The Club Med at Guadalupe served roasted rabbit and a friend asked my wife what it tasted like. She told her it tasted a lot like Squirrel.
 

scooterbum46

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Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
867
Location
South Central Michigan / ex Gulf Coast Florida
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Be sure to tell MGMT that cute little rabbits like to chew - a lot. The first time they're in the house (while you are away) the cuties will start on their favorite snack, electric cords.... BTDT, tee shirt, etc, etc, BTW, they're cute - right now, before everyone gets tired of the daily chores.
 

F451

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
991
Location
WA State, USA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Nice work on that battery pack. For the larger mini bikes, these guys are putting together some cool projects, might give you some ideas for a larger bike if you're going to roll your own. I like their KTM 65 based e-dirt bike.

https://www.electroandcompany.com/kits
 
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GeddyT

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Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,243
Location
Bellingham, WA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

We raise meat rabbits. They come inside and go in the freezer.

Uncle Willie, I told my children it was a skinny chicken. Best not to serve it for the first time anywhere near Easter. To get the kids to try it, call it Hasenpfeffer or Lapin a La Cocotte rather than Rabbit Stew. Resist the urge to hum "Here Comes Peter Cottontail" when serving it.

When I was told about the two-rabbit minimum, my suggested response was, "Well... we're not that hungry..."

I don't think this gem was employed.

Be sure to tell MGMT that cute little rabbits like to chew - a lot. The first time they're in the house (while you are away) the cuties will start on their favorite snack, electric cords.... BTDT, tee shirt, etc, etc, BTW, they're cute - right now, before everyone gets tired of the daily chores.

Oh, she claims that the rabbits will only be brought inside to snuggle on laps. My response? "Oh, so it's fine that they piss and **** in the house because they'll be ******* and crapping on you? Uh huh..."

I have a feeling I'm going to need to stay vigilant.

Nice work on that battery pack. For the larger mini bikes, these guys are putting together some cool projects, might give you some ideas for a larger bike if you're going to roll your own. I like their KTM 65 based e-dirt bike.

https://www.electroandcompany.com/kits

This is a "shut up and take my money" situation, but it doesn't seem like their kits are available yet? I'll be watching that situation closely, so thanks!

Since we're on the subject of electric bikes, with the new battery in the OSET and the kids riding like crazy, they quickly gained confidence and were getting some air off the jumps. Which made the lack of a positive seat connection a problem, as it kept falling off.

These bikes are trials bikes from the factory, so they're not made to sit on. The seat is an accessory unit that came with no provisions for mounting. I solved this with some adhesive-backed velcro. Not only was this never a great solution in the first place, but I had to rip it all off in order to strip the bike for a second rewiring, so the seat was just sitting there.

I wanted an OEM style removable seat, so a slide-in catch in the front and a bolt to lock it in place in the rear. After a trip to the lathe and then a trip to the mill to shatter a $125 5/8" end mill due to stock rotating in an improperly tightened vise, a second trip to the mill yielded this collection of parts for the front catch:

2020-06-22+09+seat+mount+1.jpg


I drilled for four rivets, but two was more than strong enough:

2020-06-22+10+seat+mount+2.jpg


The seat is built off of a couple small wood blocks front and rear, so I drilled into the front one, installed an M5 rivnut, and screwed in the latching post:

2020-06-22+11+seat+mount+3.jpg


Another rivnut installed in the tail piece, a hole drilled through the seat and the rear wood base, a fender washer, and a long M5 bolt (need to swap out for a button head when I can get my hands on one), and it's job done:

2020-06-22+12+seat+mount+4.jpg


It's been jump tested dozens of times since without budging, and it's very easy to take on and off, so huge success. Really wish I still had that 5/8" end mill, though...
 

mybigwarwagon

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
4,428
Location
Vale, Nc
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Uncle Willie, I told my children it was a skinny chicken. Best not to serve it for the first time anywhere near Easter. To get the kids to try it, call it Hasenpfeffer or Lapin a La Cocotte rather than Rabbit Stew. Resist the urge to hum "Here Comes Peter Cottontail" when serving it.

The Club Med at Guadalupe served roasted rabbit and a friend asked my wife what it tasted like. She told her it tasted a lot like Squirrel.

Heath likes to watch Steph slaughter them. Although the first time he asked if she could put them back together.

When I was told about the two-rabbit minimum, my suggested response was, "Well... we're not that hungry..."

I don't think this gem was employed.

When everyone was crying about meat shortages we traded some rabbits for some pork. With bunnies and chickies we always have meat.
 

F451

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
991
Location
WA State, USA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

This is a "shut up and take my money" situation, but it doesn't seem like their kits are available yet? I'll be watching that situation closely, so thanks!

No kits yet, I just thought it might give you some ideas since their prototype bike looks like a nice setup.

If you want to drop some coin, you're probably aware of the KTM/Husqvarna SX-E 5 e-dirt bikes. If I had a little ripper, that's what I'd get them on when they were ready (Stacyc 12 > Stacyc 16 > KTM SX-E > Sur Ron sized > full sized e-dirt bike). :)

Some good info on the little KTM/Husky e-dirt bikes here if you're interested:

https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1312540-hey-dads-ktm-is-comin-for-your-kids/
 

wendle

Active member
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
27
Location
NSW,AU
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

When I was told about the two-rabbit minimum, my suggested response was, "Well... we're not that hungry..."

Pan fried in beer batter. Hungry yet? :)

We have to thin the numbers of feral ones down as they spread mange to the native animals (wombats). There's much worse things to eat.

My medium size dog makes one disappear in about 5 minutes - bones, fur, everything...
 

Bob Heine

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Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,707
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

PG-13 Post

Tom, this post contains photos that may be disturbing to some readers, especially your wife and children. Let me know and I'll happily delete it.
Pan fried in beer batter. Hungry yet? :)

We have to thin the numbers of feral ones down as they spread mange to the native animals (wombats). There's much worse things to eat.

My medium size dog makes one disappear in about 5 minutes - bones, fur, everything...
Wendle, we visited the Victoria Market in Melbourne back in 1990 and would have loved to try the rabbit but our hotel room didn't have cooking facilities. We weren't returning to home base in Manly for a week so we couldn't risk un-refrigerated rabbits in our carry-on luggage. It really was tempting.
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Back then you could buy kangaroo meat but not for human consumption -- I understand that has changed. I think I see a Skippy stand-in on the right. (Those are per-Kilo prices, not per-Pound.)
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GeddyT

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Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,243
Location
Bellingham, WA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

I can't decide whether to tell Bob that delicious looking animals are always welcome on this thread or warn him that this thread is no place for guys to post pictures of their meat...

Sophomoric humor dispensed with, it's time to catch up with shop projects as of a couple of weeks ago. Which was a time when I was still very much mired in actual job work, but was able to leave early one day and get some time on the mill. It was finally time to start cracking in earnest on getting Andrew's XR wired and running.

Before catching up in real time on that project, though, I thought it might be interesting to tell the story of that bike to date. If you're not interested in an extremely long-winded story of two guys building and rebuilding and rebuilding a motorcycle, feel free to skip to the next post. On the bright side, there will be plenty of pictures! (As of today, I am now hosting over 600 images for this thread!)

Okay, so Andrew started riding motorcycles before he could even drive. I believe he got his endorsement at the same time he got his license. I met him in college, and at that time he already had a really nice 1977 BMW R100 that was his daily driver:

2020-06-26+BMW.jpg

At the same time, he shuffled through a series of play bikes, including a 600 streetfighter (authentically crashed, stripped of bodywork, and painted with no regard for sensible taste...) and a really cool Yamaha RD350 custom build that you could hear coming a mile away. What he REALLY wanted, though, from the day it was released in 2001 was a Honda XR650R with street tires and all the kit to make it road legal. Supermoto was in its heyday in Europe in the early 2000s and spread to the States a few years later. I guess he figured the biggest, baddest dirt bike around would make the biggest, baddest supermoto?

I tried to talk him out of it, steering him toward an easier conversion like a KTM EXC, but he never gave up the dream to own that XR. Finally, in July of 2014, he broke down and sold his beloved BMW to fund his dream XR supermoto build.

We found the donor bike in the Portland area and road-tripped down to pick it up. The bike was priced significantly lower than any of the others in the area because the owner had trouble starting it. It turns out this was a big understatement. On the sidewalk in front of the seller's house, we kicked that bike for nearly an hour trying to get it started, unsuccessfully. The seller was then gracious enough to let me tear the bike apart enough to do a compression test, and the result wasn't great. On the bright side, this convinced him to lower the price by another $1000, which I figured would cover the cost of a new top end if need be.

On the third day of ownership, here's his new XR on the lift in my old shop, getting the "once over":

2020-06-26+XR+01.jpg

The cylinder was scored, the piston was scored, the exhaust valves were burnt up, and the carburetor displayed the telltale signs of the air filter having failed and the bike eating a bit of sand:

2020-06-26+XR+02.jpg

The engine was buttoned back up with a fresh top end, new cylinder, new exhaust valves and re-cut seats. I also did all of the "uncorking" mods, removing an intake restriction and completely rebuilding the carburetor with upsized jets, an HRC needle, and removing the blown-engine-waiting-to-happen flapper plate from the choke plate. Which clearly made the carburetor very happy...

2020-06-26+XR+03.jpg

Last touch was Andrew insisting on swapping out the alien looking headlight assembly for a vintage round light and fly screen, and that's how he rode it while researching and procuring the rest of the parts for the build:

2020-06-26+XR+04.jpg

And here's a sample of said parts:

2020-06-26+XR+05.jpg

2020-06-26+XR+06.jpg

Some are purely cosmetic, but the big ticket items were a CRF250R front end and conversion bearings and a set of Warp-9 supermoto wheels shod with sticky sport rubber. We went with the wider 5" rear wheel in order to fit more commonly available and cheaper sport bike tires, which, in retrospect, may have been a mistake. More on that later.

The bike also needed a rewiring. Badly. After spending hours trying to trace the bike's wiring--which no longer resembled the factory wiring at all--I gave up and started cutting. What remained in the end was a short pigtail of wiring terminating in the CDI connector. Everything else was chucked, and started mapping out switches and wire colors with the multimeter...

2020-06-26+XR+08.jpg

...resulting in this crude wiring diagram:

2020-06-26+XR+07.jpg

The goal would be to make the front lights and rear lights connect via a single Deutsch connector each, making the assemblies easy to remove for track duty. I went nuts with Deutsch connectors in an effort to make the harness extremely modular, which was also probably a mistake. It made the tiny underseat area--the only free space on the bike--quite crowded:

2020-06-26+XR+09.jpg

After a lot of hours of soldering (another mistake) and heat-shrinking, the bike's central wiring was completed:

2020-06-26+XR+10.jpg

To facilitate this, I developed a better, more complete wiring diagram:

2020-06-26+XR+11.jpg

It was about his time a new addition found its way into the shop. I bought a drill press from woot.com of all places. Large, decently powerful, and variable speed. Pure Chinesium, but I liked it a lot.

2020-06-26+XR+13.jpg

With the addition of an XY table and a drill press vise, it was amazing the kinds of things I was suddenly able to make! Take this brake hose clamp, for instance:

2020-06-26+XR+14.jpg

Or this dash assembly, cut out on the table and miter saws out of blocks of 6061, then drilled and epoxied together:

2020-06-26+XR+15.jpg

All wired up for turn signal and high beam indicator lights...

2020-06-26+XR+16.jpg

2020-06-26+XR+17.jpg

...and installed on the bike:

2020-06-26+XR+18.jpg

2020-06-26+XR+19.jpg

Andrew then insisted on an even bigger, even heavier, even uglier giant round headlight on a steel frame. We debated this hotly, but in the end it's his bike, so I wired it up:

2020-06-26+XR+20.jpg

It actually worked out quite nicely, as the steel frame is suspended on rubber grommets mounted to the fork legs and held on by cotter pins. With the light, blinkers, and horn all mounted to a single Deutsch connector, it's two minutes to remove the whole shebang and replace with a number plate for the track. And, to be honest, the look has grown on me. Barely...

2020-06-26+XR+21.jpg

At this point, all that was left was a custom speedo sensor bracket...

2020-06-26+XR+22.jpg

...and we had a rolling bike!


2020-06-26+XR+23.jpg

Sort of.

As soon as the wheels were on, I knew we were in big trouble. All of our calculations for what would fit were based off of the tire's listed size (180). Turns out it's way wider in reality. The rear wheel would only go on with the axle backed out completely in the adjustment range, and the chain was hard up against the tire. A lot of this later...

2020-06-26+XR+24.jpg

2020-06-26+XR+25.jpg

...and we realized we were screwed. The wheels were custom, so no sending them back for a more narrow rear. The tires were also paid for. We looked into dishing the rim to the left and spacing the sprockets, but that was only possible to a small extent before running out of room, and it put the tire well off the bike's centerline.

After days of hemming and hawing, it was decided that the solution was going to have to be drastic. Allowing the wheel to move forward for chain adjustment was going to require dishing the swingarm, and keeping the chain off the tire was going to require flipping the countershaft sprocket and spacing the rear sprocket 7.38 mm to match.

After some debate as to how to go about doing it, this became the plan of action for the swingarm:

2020-06-26+XR+26.jpg

2020-06-26+XR+27.jpg

And all welded up:

2020-06-26+XR+28.jpg

Now, this was before reading about fellow GJer Sakurama's misadventure with welding a cast aluminum swingarm. His snapped, but it was also from heavy duty offroad riding on a 400+ pound bike. This XR swingarm is way overkill for street duty for a bike this light, so hopefully there's still more than enough strength without post-weld heat treating. It hasn't broken yet, so fingers crossed!...

With the swingarm sorted, it was time to move to the other side. And this is where we got extremely lucky. As in supernatural forces at play lucky. While searching all over the internet for a solution for spacing the rear sprocket, I found an eBay seller making exactly the spacer we needed out of his home shop. The only problem was his didn't match the required thickness by a couple of mm. Which is where the miracle luck comes into play: Turns out the guy lives 10 minutes up the freeway from us! After a quick back and forth, he agreed to make us up a custom spacer to exactly the thickness we needed at no extra charge. Shipping would, obviously, be super quick.

And here's said spacer in its new home:

2020-06-26+XR+29.jpg

The countershaft sprocket took a bit of problem solving. Flipping it over gave us the spacing we needed and then some. Too much. Putting the teeth right in the sweet spot required both flipping the sprocket and shimming it back in toward the bike. Worked perfectly.

But solving the chain spacing problem created several more. None of the chain guides lined up with the chain anymore.

The main chain guide that wraps around the front of the swingarm was made from scratch using nothing but a sheet of UHMW polyethylene and the table saw, and it came out awesome. New guide on the left (prototype above, final part below), OEM guide on the right:

2020-06-26+XR+30.jpg

Still kicking to this day, with very little wear.

Due to manufacturing limitations, this new guide couldn't include the OEM rear guide to keep the chain from flapping laterally. An overengineered replacement was in order. With the sole design criteria being to stick to only the OEM mounting holes in the swingarm, this was the solution we settled on:

2020-06-26+XR+31.jpg

And here it is in practice:

2020-06-26+XR+32.jpg

This little roller guide has definitely done its job, as there's not a single chain mark on that tire. On the other hand, the rollers are already completely toast, so it's taken a serious beating.

But, anyway, it all worked pretty well, and from March of 2015 (when this whole conversion was completed) until July of 2016, this bike was his daily driver.

What happened in July of 2016? A track day happened:

2020-06-26+XR+33.jpg

It was going pretty well until the engine locked up on him at 100 mph on the front straight. He quickly pulled the clutch lever in, but it didn't disengage, so he had to skid to a stop, miraculously without a crash.

So it promptly looked like this:

2020-06-26+XR+34.jpg

That picture is interesting, as it's the first in the series featuring the conspicuous absence of my old drafty and rotten shop. For the engine teardown, I emptied out the race trailer:

2020-06-26+XR+35.jpg

If you've been following this thread, you've already seen this engine rebuild. It's the one that took place on my dining room table. The culprit behind the engine grenade was a cheap clutch basket top hat bushing. It's a known issue, to the point where later model bikes came with a redesigned bushing. This was original 2001, though.

Damage to the engine was total. Only parts reused were the crankcases (and I even accidentally broke one of those and had to replace it with a new one) and transmission. The transmission had to be completely disassembled because every nook and cranny were full of bronze shavings. Because this engine is so tall, this bike has a dry sump lubrication system, with the oil tank residing in the frame downtube. This was also completely full of bronze shavings, requiring multiple kerosene rinses and new screens.

With so many parts needing replaced, we decided we might as well take the opportunity to chase some performance (I love spending other people's money!...), so 680cc big bore kit, high comp piston, replica grind HRC camshaft. Figured that oughtta do.

Narrator: "It didn't..."

We were never able to get the bike to run correctly after the rebuild. With all of the new parts, the jetting was always off. It would either start easily and run like **** or be nearly impossible to start but run alright afterward. I eventually caved and bought a wideband O2 sensor and gauge, and we had a bung welded on the collector. The readings from that sensor and gauge were so unbelievable that I assumed it was faulty. The bike would only run when the sensor claimed it was Danger-Will-Robinson lean. So we chucked the gauge and kept fiddling. It was during this fiddling that I discovered that backing out the exhaust valve clearance helped dramatically. They had to be backed out past their tolerance limit, though.

It was about this time that the bike decided it had had enough of running on a stand in the backyard and overheated in dramatic fashion, making a clacking sound like a chain slapping for some time after the engine was shut down. After investigating, we found the thermostat pin bent and the thermostat stuck closed. The radiator overflow vent was also pinched and plugged. Ouch.

But, after cooling down and with the exhaust valves backed way the hell off, it was a runner for a time while we debated what to do about it. It seemed to be making even less power than before all of the "upgrades," was still a bit hard to start, and the exhaust valves needing to be out of adjustment didn't sit well with me.

We finished the rebuild in October 2016, and sometime after was when it was badly overheated and the thermostat found to be faulty. In July of 2017, I finally convinced Andrew to have a look inside the engine. I'm glad I did, as it was destroyed. So destroyed that we shipped the cylinder to Millenium Technologies in Wisconsin, and they had to do weld repair before Nikasil replating. Not only was the piston shot, but it turned out that the website we ordered from sent us a standard compression piston instead of high comp. I also suspected the camshaft was improperly ground, so I chucked it and ordered a stage-1 cam from a reputable supplier. While we were at it, I also ordered a new exhaust and a Mikuni pumper carb. No way in hell it wasn't going to be an absolute monster with all of these parts.

One other thing came up during the previous rebuild that I've saved until now. In the process of tearing the bike down post track grenade, I noticed something disturbing under the seat:

2020-06-26+XR+36.jpg

The heat shrink over the battery pack had melted badly, and it was only a matter of time before that battery would fail. It was clear that the bike was running enough electronics that it both needed a bigger battery and we would need to locate that battery somewhere with room to breathe. Unfortunately, there's no such place that exists naturally on this bike. The only thing we could think to do was stuff the battery under the tail, above the rear tire. It would be high enough to not rub, but it wasn't ideal. You can see the shelf we built for it in this shot:

2020-06-26+XR+37.jpg

This would eventually be replaced by an uglier but more functional sealed Pelican case strapped to the subframe. Not ideal.

But ideal enough for it to get back on the road for a while. This is how it looked when it rolled out of the shop after all of those mods:

2020-06-26+XR+38.jpg

I thought the pumper carb would for sure put the power over the top, but it still felt exactly the same as it did before. He also started having electrical gremlins pop up after a while. The tail light kept burning out, brake lights and blinkers sometimes didn't work. It all added up to something being wrong with the wiring.

Which led to more research and the lesson learned that soldered connections aren't ideal in vibration prone applications. I also used way thicker wire than necessary, and this was partly the cause of space under the seat being at such a premium. Lastly, I wired the headlight through the handlebar switch, meaning too small of a wire. A relay would be more appropriate.

I took the bike back in winter of 2017/2018 for a final re-wiring and tuning, and I've just been too busy with work and finishing the shop to get around to it since. This fact brings no small amount of guilt... So all of the parts, wire, shrink wrap, connectors, etc. have been purchased to finally wire up this bike right, and that's the current project.

First step is to relocate the battery and lighting relay to a custom box located behind the cylinder, in front of the frame, and below the carburetor. In this big empty space here:

2020-06-26+XR+39.jpg

Which is what I'm currently working on.
 

BORING HOP YARD

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,102
Location
Boring Oregon
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

Wow that is a cool looking bike. I really enjoy your writing style.
Looking forward to seeing it back on the road.
Thanks for sharing.
 

Pressingonward

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
522
Location
SW WA
Re: From losing everything to being cash-poor and shop-rich in "only" five years!

That is quite the project! The "happy" carb made me lol :)

If you need some giant heat shrink for any of your battery projects let me know - I scavenged some from work that was headed to the dumpster. Not sure what sizes I have...
 
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