The Contractor paid for the concrete but I paid the contractor. I am almost paid up in full which is a long story from last year to try and get it down before first frost but mother nature had a different plan..... I have a well respected surface prep company to come out for a quote and would have them do it vs the current contractor but as I stated earlier im not going to do it on a slab thats not worth it. It was watered the first day it was down which was wednesday and has rained a bit on saturday, over an inch on sunday and today we are up to another half an inch so it has been getting and staying a little wet except thurs-Sat afternoon. in the contract it stated "the work preformed will be high quality and done in conformity with state and local building codes" This obviously did not happen......
Horrific new slab pour, PROPER corrective action advise needed!
- Thread starter zimmpz
- Start date
The Contractor paid for the concrete but I paid the contractor. I am almost paid up in full which is a long story from last year to try and get it down before first frost but mother nature had a different plan..... I have a well respected surface prep company to come out for a quote and would have them do it vs the current contractor but as I stated earlier im not going to do it on a slab thats not worth it. It was watered the first day it was down which was wednesday and has rained a bit on saturday, over an inch on sunday and today we are up to another half an inch so it has been getting and staying a little wet except thurs-Sat afternoon. in the contract it stated "the work preformed will be high quality and done in conformity with state and local building codes" This obviously did not happen......
ConCretin
Well-known member
Honestly 5500 lb concrete in 90 degree heat is a recipe for disaster if you aren't prepared and maybe if you are but that's water under the bridge at this point. That finish is clearly unacceptable so the question is what to do now.
You can obviously grind it but unless you keep going until you get to a polished finish, I doubt you'd be happy. You could also overlay it. An un-bonded overlay carries the risk of curling and cracking. A bonded overlay is a lot more work. In ether case, you need to pay attention to crack control.
You can obviously grind it but unless you keep going until you get to a polished finish, I doubt you'd be happy. You could also overlay it. An un-bonded overlay carries the risk of curling and cracking. A bonded overlay is a lot more work. In ether case, you need to pay attention to crack control.
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karoc
Well-known member
Unless you have one heck contract and a good attorney,and willing to drag it out for months or even longer.I would remain civil about it and suggest they do another 3" slab on top and no skim coat which will come up in over time. There should be some kind of primer that they put on the bad slab so that new slab will adhere together. Its not perfect but it may be your only chance of any kind of recovery. Of course they pay for it,finger cross. Maybe they can get concrete company to help out if they are not good buds.
I am trying to hurry and make a decision so if it needs to be removed they can do it while still curing. I appreciate all the help and input.
As rough as that is, the bonding/sliding of a cover slab would be no problem at all. IMO, topping slab with rebar.
Also IMO, it was one or more hot loads made by adding new mix to leftover. Especially since it was midday and lot of activity in town. Road/curb crews always start early.
Also IMO, it was one or more hot loads made by adding new mix to leftover. Especially since it was midday and lot of activity in town. Road/curb crews always start early.
Retroman
Well-known member
Get your batch tickets from the plant and see what time the load was batched and when it was poured out, did they use chilled water in the mix, 11:00 is to late to pour any mix let alone 5500 PSI when its that hot, Are they a licensed contractor? if so get a hold of your contractors board and file a complaint. I would want a new slab.
I once had a 36x32 slab poured that was bad....but only about 1/10 as bad as yours. They ripped it out and put a new pad down. They ate the cost. Now, I did no have pex or insulation board down with this slab. No way would I accept that.
ConCretin
Well-known member
Don't get rushed into a decision. Yes the concrete is gaining strength every day but if it needs to get ripped out, the difference won't be that big a deal. Grinding/polishing usually aren't done until the concrete reaches design strength and an overlay can be done anytime.
Don't waste your time looking at the concrete supplier. You'll never win a claim for a 'hot load'. Your contractor obviously under-estimated the challenge of placing high strength mix in hot temps. There are ways to manage it such as retarders and fly ash or slag but 5500 lb concrete is a slab on grade is rare. He likely owns the problem but will he step up? No doubt he's learned a painful lesson.
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
My initial reaction (which still stands, BTW) was to tell you to have them hammer that thing out of there and start again. On their dime. The contractor should have realized the disaster cooking in that transit and rejected the batch. Since he didn't, sorry, it's on him to make it right. to dump amn additional 3 on top of it? Negligence.
Thinking about it... my resolution still stands - did your contractor specify cooked off and broken concrete in the pour, or fresh and clean concrete?
And then when they "did something" - that double concerns me - Fly ash, or Coca Cola? If they dumped coke in there to "extend it" that concrete will never be right.
He (oe she) should have caught it as the pour was happening, and rejected that mess off the first load. That's why they're "professionals" and have a "license". When they continued to pour, instead of shutting this disaster down and sending the rest of this junk back, they failed you and their profession.
Thinking about it... my resolution still stands - did your contractor specify cooked off and broken concrete in the pour, or fresh and clean concrete?
And then when they "did something" - that double concerns me - Fly ash, or Coca Cola? If they dumped coke in there to "extend it" that concrete will never be right.
He (oe she) should have caught it as the pour was happening, and rejected that mess off the first load. That's why they're "professionals" and have a "license". When they continued to pour, instead of shutting this disaster down and sending the rest of this junk back, they failed you and their profession.
Bighead38
Well-known member
I’ve done a lot of concrete worked and would be down right embarrassed to leave a slab like that. If it was mine the only acceptable Option would be to tear it out and do it over the right way. With the internet these days companies can get a bad reputation really fast so if he’s a professional he should have no problem doing the right thing.
B T C
Well-known member
Assuming he isn’t ******* & gagged in your basement, or even if he is, what is the contractor saying?
nmantas
Well-known member
Lessons cost money........good ones cost a lot. I agree with others to be as civil as possible and now that you don't have much to hold over them money-wise I think I would be downright nice. If it were me I'd probably start coming to terms with the fact that you are not going to get what you paid for/envisioned (unless of course they offer full replacement in the next few days).
Yes, you could get lawyers involved and go after licensees and the such but it will probably be disappointing in the end. If you don't care about the looks but more of the function, get it tested for structural integrity, ground down (and epoxied if you are into it) and hopefully get some money back and go about your life and probably be able to laugh about it by Christmas after your equipment is all set up and talk yourself into the concept that you got a 'deal'.
MileHighRover
Well-known member
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p00p
Well-known member
If the contract doesn't support making it right, getting into a legal battle might just be fruitless while adding more financial burden.
If the contract clearly supports you with what it should have been, then it should be pretty simple for the company to make it right without going to court.
Any grey areas, you'd likely benefit from a consultation with a lawyer that specializes in general construction.
If the contract clearly supports you with what it should have been, then it should be pretty simple for the company to make it right without going to court.
Any grey areas, you'd likely benefit from a consultation with a lawyer that specializes in general construction.
mrobins297aaa
Well-known member
I would never put a 2 or 3" topping on there, every time you anchor something to that floor you'll be attaching to that topping.
you'll be back here in a couple of years asking if attaching your car lift to that topping will be ok.
make them tear it out
you'll be back here in a couple of years asking if attaching your car lift to that topping will be ok.
make them tear it out
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My fear is a topping slab might separate if you start drilling holes in it for a lift etc.
The bonding agents should help as would fiber and rebar if it comes down to that.
Was the slab forms inspected before? I’m guessing you are in Gwinnett? They don’t take kindly to no permits..
The bonding agents should help as would fiber and rebar if it comes down to that.
Was the slab forms inspected before? I’m guessing you are in Gwinnett? They don’t take kindly to no permits..
Bigblockyeti
Banned
I'm still wondering about the batch supplier. I found my flatwork guy (16' x 22' shed slab 3Ksi w/fiber) working a few streets over on a house slab. Chatting with the truck driver, he said they back the batch but when the flatwork guys grab the valve and add water, it's then on them. I paid for my 6 yards right to the concrete supplier and paid my flatwork guy cash, it started at 7:50am and was about 68 degrees rising steadily to 75 at noon that day. I don't think the weather could have been any better, especially since I rented a powerbuggy to cart 1/2 yard at a time 220' to the forms from the street and I was the one doing that. I did eff up, not terribly but I didn't have enough gravel down so it was pushing 5.5" in many places instead of 4" so I ran short and had to make an emergency box in the corner to fill later (I should have needed 5.51 yards with a thickened edge of 4" x 16" around the perimeter. My guy did fantastic ultimately running the power trowel over 7 or 8 times and having to wait quite a while for everything to dry enough for the next session. He didn't leave until almost 3:00pm a couple hours after he anticipated so I tipped nicely. My boys and I wheelbarrow mixed twenty 80lb bags of quikcrete 2 at a time to fill the void two weeks later. My work doesn't look nearly as pretty as his but it will be buried in the corner, eventually under a mezzanine and ultimately it's going to be a storage shed with only a slim chance of even having electricity run out there in the distant future.
At any rate I'm subbed to see what I hope is a favorable outcome for you sooner than later. My little project is just reinforcement for me that I want to tackle my forever home build in less than 4 years and I'm really praying against some nightmare like you're dealing with now.
At any rate I'm subbed to see what I hope is a favorable outcome for you sooner than later. My little project is just reinforcement for me that I want to tackle my forever home build in less than 4 years and I'm really praying against some nightmare like you're dealing with now.
readhead
Well-known member
If a second layer of concrete is installed how will the in floor heat perform? That is a lot of mass to heat. I’m in the remove and replace camp which also means you will never wonder what is happening under your feet.
I would think even if the contract simply states "36 by 36 slab", it would still mean that the contractor has to at least do a decent and professional job. Standard of care. But yeah an attorney would be a wise person to consult if the contractor doesn't step up.
And what he got was a pile of shiite. Those arses should've shut that shiite show down instantly but they didn't care. Most customers fall for the "oh we can skim coat it. You won't even notice. Here's 250 off for your troubles."
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Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
If there is any way you can get it done, take it out and start over.
It's even worth throwing some more money at it if you can afford it.
And I suspect you have learned a sad lesson about letting payments get ahead of the project... I've been there and never did it again.
It's even worth throwing some more money at it if you can afford it.
And I suspect you have learned a sad lesson about letting payments get ahead of the project... I've been there and never did it again.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Dave, thanks for ******* all over our righteous indignation. 
We just want the best for a fellow GJ'er!
We just want the best for a fellow GJ'er!
skulldrinker
Well-known member
I would have called my lawyer hours ago.
spudley
Well-known member
If this guy wanted 5500lb concrete, he was planning some serious work and wanted a good job.
How many would really be satisfied with a fix rather than a replace if it was their garage?
How many would really be satisfied with a fix rather than a replace if it was their garage?
rustyjames
Well-known member
If I was faced with this situation I would go with the topping route, perhaps even going with tile and taking my chances. I've been on government projects that had these situations occur and they often made the "fix" with some type of topping.
mcbane
Well-known member
Lots of advice to hire a lawyer and somehow get enough $$ out of the contractor to pay for the most expensive fix possible. That always seems reasonable when you are angry and think you can force someone else to pay. But the reality is that your contractor probably doesnt have the money or insurance that will pay for a complete redo and a court still expects the victim to take advantage of any opportunity to mitigate damages. That means being open to a repair of some sort. Probably your best first step is to get recommendations and estimates from other contractors for the repair and then ask your contractor to pay for that repair.
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
Two other questions for the OP to consider:
- How long do you plan on keeping this place? Is this just a place you will be in for 5 years? Or do you plan on staying there there 10+ years, or rest of your life and leaving the place to your children?
- How much is the result going to bug you? I have some relatively minor problems with my slab, and I cursed them when I see them... less now a couple years later, but still, it bugs me.
- How long do you plan on keeping this place? Is this just a place you will be in for 5 years? Or do you plan on staying there there 10+ years, or rest of your life and leaving the place to your children?
- How much is the result going to bug you? I have some relatively minor problems with my slab, and I cursed them when I see them... less now a couple years later, but still, it bugs me.
Thanks. I'm no concrete guy so this is all interesting. Having read through all of this I think I would arrange for a sit down with the contractor and a neutral 3rd party engineer. Way more leverage and credibility with an engineer there and OP isn't fighting the battle on his own. It also takes a lot of the emotion out of it as you can approach it as an engineering problem.
Bretny
Well-known member
Damn that is one terrible job. I would say it was hard once it left the truck too. But the finishers should have known that.
I did 13cuyrd with about 6 friends, half in a basement and half for a carport slab. 2 of us had done concrete before. It went off without a hitch.
I did 13cuyrd with about 6 friends, half in a basement and half for a carport slab. 2 of us had done concrete before. It went off without a hitch.
Wow, I cant thank everyone enough for all the input and support! I feel like I should give an update and will continue to do so as things progress. This has truly been a nightmare and so far I've kept a level head and all partys involved are playing nice. I've been gathering all sorts of info in case the worst case scenario plays out and I have to get the law involved. As of now I gave the contractor the ultimatum of it needs to go and I want it off my property and I will start completely over with all of my money returned to me or a fix can be made but only after an engineer approves the repair with their stamp and I will not pay out one more penny in costs to remedy the slab. He is talking with the engineering firm to see if they will approve some sort of "fix" but as of now I'm just in the information gathering mode and waiting for all the experts to come to a consensus. I read everyone's response but unfortunately don't have time to get back to you all individually. That being said I cant thank you all enough, I will continue to post updates and hopefully one day be able to show off a shop worthy of praise instead of pity. I'm glad I stumbled upon this community!
nmantas
Well-known member
Welcome to garage journal!
I looked at your pictures and all I can say is, "I'm sorry for your loss." You were expecting a Mustang (rightfully so), but they delivered a Pinto. These situations ****. The only thing I would advise is to step back from this situation (as much as possible) for a day or two and take some deep breaths. Personally speaking, I'm not the best at dealing with things in the moment. If I walk away for 24 hours though, stuff becomes a whole lot more manageable.
As an example, when I was renovating my house, I paid an electrician friend of mine to help rewire the place. As much as I tried to be on site whenever anyone else was working, there were times when that wasn't possible. I showed up one day (after being away for a friend's wedding) and a whole bunch of the electrical work was done in a way that I didn't like. I was tempted to rip it all out and redo it myself.
I wound up walking away for the day. When I came back 24 hours later, I realized that even though I would've done things differently, I could work with what my electrician friend had done (with a few minor fixes). Realizing this saved me a weeks worth of time and probably two grand. And looking back ten years later, there was no major downside to the way my friend did things.
However, these situations still ****. You paid for what you thought would be a good job on a project you've clearly put time and money into. Fortunately, it's just a garage, and these things are fixable. If you and your family are healthy, that's all that matters. I know that doesn't take the sting off of this bad experience, but it's important to remember that a house/garage/job/car are all replaceable. Having said that, I hope the concrete guys can fix or replace your slab.
As an example, when I was renovating my house, I paid an electrician friend of mine to help rewire the place. As much as I tried to be on site whenever anyone else was working, there were times when that wasn't possible. I showed up one day (after being away for a friend's wedding) and a whole bunch of the electrical work was done in a way that I didn't like. I was tempted to rip it all out and redo it myself.
I wound up walking away for the day. When I came back 24 hours later, I realized that even though I would've done things differently, I could work with what my electrician friend had done (with a few minor fixes). Realizing this saved me a weeks worth of time and probably two grand. And looking back ten years later, there was no major downside to the way my friend did things.
However, these situations still ****. You paid for what you thought would be a good job on a project you've clearly put time and money into. Fortunately, it's just a garage, and these things are fixable. If you and your family are healthy, that's all that matters. I know that doesn't take the sting off of this bad experience, but it's important to remember that a house/garage/job/car are all replaceable. Having said that, I hope the concrete guys can fix or replace your slab.
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dcg9381
Well-known member
****** job. No need to call the lawyer as the first horse out of the chute. Depends on what the contractors reaction to this is.
If the contractor can get an engineer to stamp a solution that has the cosmetics that are appropriate for a "normal" floor, I think that's a reasonable outcome. Not a good outcome, but reasonable.
I also like the "pour another slab" over it solution - anecdotally anyway, that chunk of concrete is almost certainly more solid than whatever is below it...
99% chance around here that these guys would have taken their 50% down (or whatever you paid to get the concrete truck to show up) and walked away...
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This, floor heat is going to be really slow with an added 2 or 3 inches of crete on top
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
Couldn't you just repipe into the new top 3 inches?
59 wagon man
Well-known member
why couldnt you make it dual zone ? 1 in old slab /one in new slab
Simple question for the OP since it keeps getting mentioned, are you planning on installing a lift ?
You probably could, still going to heat up whats under it. Big mass there. I guess once its up to temp it won't matter much. I wouldn't want the floor period.
PugetDude
ALLIANCE MEMBER
OP, Looks like someone snapped a photo of your concrete finishers in action...
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1029309&d=1594138464
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1029309&d=1594138464