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Good USA/German smallish flashlight, 400+lumen?

catalytic

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A couple months ago I did some research to replace my old beat-to-death double AA Maglites, and I ended up buying two new AA LED Maglites (the newest ones with 350 lumens). The new ones absolutely ****. Both lasted only a couple hours before getting stuck in 'low power mode', and now one flickers and the other won't turn on at all.

If I had really needed it, I would have been completely screwed.

I'm looking for a decent flashlight that is about that size or a bit bigger (i.e. pocket sized or at least not huge), that has:
- high + low power switch
- at least 400 lumens on high mode
- takes standard batteries
- Not made in China (I'm sure there are some nice ones made there, but I prefer USA or Germany, etc.).
- Durable
- Not $200 with custom engravings or whatever.

Can anyone recommend one? What do military/industry use these days?
 
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BroncoAZ

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Fenix PD25 with a rechargeable CR123 is my favorite, but they have something for everyone. Seems like you’re limited to about 350 lumens on AAA. The rechargeable 16340 and 18650 batteries are awesome. Nobody makes LED’s outside of China that I’m aware of, so why chase a mythical USA or German made light for 3-4x the price?
 

Legion Prime

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I've carried Fenix for years, the E20 2.0 puts out 350 lumens max from 2 AAs, a touch short of your desired high output but for only $40 that might be acceptable. If not the jump to their TK30 will get you 100 lumen on low and 500 on high. It comes with it's own proprietary (maybe?) battery but will also take an 18650 which is getting to be fairly standard these days. However it will run you about $270 but no special engravings. I'd also recommend taking a browse over at candlepower forums to see what they're playing with these days.
 

BroncoAZ

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I've carried Fenix for years, the E20 2.0 puts out 350 lumens max from 2 AAs, a touch short of your desired high output but for only $40 that might be acceptable. If not the jump to their TK30 will get you 100 lumen on low and 500 on high. It comes with it's own proprietary (maybe?) battery but will also take an 18650 which is getting to be fairly standard these days. However it will run you about $270 but no special engravings. I'd also recommend taking a browse over at candlepower forums to see what they're playing with these days.

The TK30 is their long range laser light for $270, overkill when the PD35 is 1000 lumens for $72. https://www.fenixlighting.com/product/pd35-tactical-edition-fenix-flashlight/
 

GeoBruin

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First of all, I'll give you my "credentials" in case it accounts for anyting. I have over 1100 posts on candlepowerforums which is a forum like this one dedicated just to flashlights. I was also a moderator of the flashlight subreddit on Reddit for a time (in its infancy). I mostly listen around these parts because I am by no means a professional mechanic but I do know my flashlights.

I want to start by talking about batteries because that really does shape the whole conversation. You mentioned you're interested in something that takes standard batteries but we need to clarify what that really means. I think most people would say that means alkaline batteries in conventional sizes like AA C, D etc. The problem is alkaline batteries severely limit the performance of a flashlight. With today's high power LEDs you simply need something that will provide more current to get the most out of the emitter and driver circuit. Not to mention, alkaline cells can leak if left in a flashlight for an extended period.

You asked what the military uses these days. I'll get to that in terms of flashlights but as far as batteries, many military and police agencies typically source cr123a primary lithium cells. These batteries operate at 3 volts each compared to 1.5 volts for alkaline cells. The lithium chemistry also makes them very shelf-stable. They can be in storage for 10 years and still be usable. They also do not leak. They are, however, still not capable of providing the amount of energy required by a very high output flashlight. For that, we turn to the same place we turn for our power tools. Lithium ion. Specifically, lithium cobalt oxide, lithium-manganese, or a couple other more exotic variants. If you want to take a short detour to learn more about common flashlight battery chemistries and the advantages of certain cells over others, here's a link to a three-part YouTube series I recorded on the topic. This is several years old now but most of it is still pretty relevant.


In short, there are many lights on the market that will put out 400 lumens on lithium primaries. There are lights the size of a tube of chapstick that will put out 400 lumens on a single lithium ion battery. There are almost no lights on the market that would claim put out 400 lumens on just two alkaline AAs and the ones that do are probably driving those cells harder than they should be.

It sounds like you are in the market for a nice light that will last a long time and perform well. To that end, I'm going to suggest you bite the bullet and step up to rechargeable lithium-ion batteries. I am actually a fan of using non-rechargeable lithium primaries in some applications such as lights that live in my car, go bag, and other places where I may not use them for years. However, if this is a light you plan to use frequently, the cells can get expensive. They run between $1.50 and $2.00 per cell, even purchasing in moderate bulk.

Using rechargeable cells will of course increase your initial cost because you will need a charger and at least one lithium ion battery, but your lifetime cost will actually be reduced. Quality batteries of this type can be recharged thousands of times. If you're not sure you want to take this step I will recommend a couple lights that use primary lithium as well.

With all that out of the way, let's talk about lights. You mentioned wanting something American made. Unfortunately, American-made flashlights are probably more rare than American-made tools. Most of them use electronic circuits that are simply cheaper to manufacture overseas. The machining it's pretty straightforward and could be done anywhere but of course it is still cheaper to do it in China and Taiwan. You were right in assuming that many of these are actually fantastic pieces of equipment. But of course for every decent one there are a hundred that are junk. And since you stated a preference for American-made lights, I'm not going to try to change your mind. Fortunately there are a few really good options that are still made in the USA. Like U.S. made tools, they are going to be more expensive, but I believe you get what you pay for.

If you couldn't tell, I could go on for hours and pages but I'm going to skip all that and jump right to the recommendation I would make for a friend or relative of mine who stated you're same requirements.

First of all is a name you recognize. Surefire. You will find just as many people who will say that Surefire lights are too expensive and all hype as you will die-hard Surefire devotees, but the reality is that in flashlights circles they are still considered the gold standard of reliability. They're not able to stay on the bleeding edge of the performance curve like some of the Asian manufacturers but part of that is that they won't release a light that has been rushed to market or one that exceeds the performance specifications of the batteries they use. I'm not going to tell you the military issues Surefire flashlights because I don't know what they're issuing or even if they issue flashlights. But I do know that Surefire gears many of their products toward police and military personnel.

Surefire has a deep catalog of lights geared towards different uses with different modes, switching mechanisms, battery configurations, pocket clip orientation, and weapon mounting capabilities. The two I will recommend are both two mode lights (which is my preference) and they both use to lithium primary cells in series. They are going to be about the size, or slightly larger, than your mini-mag.

The first is the Surefire 6px Pro. This is the newest evolution the original Surefire 6p which was the benchmark for modular personal illumination. The p60 standard (this refers did the size and shape of a lamp that was used) is still in wide circulation today and is being used by many manufacturers foreign and domestic. The new 6px Pro has two modes, high output of 600 lumens and low output 15 lumens. Mode switching is handled via a forward clicky tell switch. You can Google the light for more details on the operation. High output runtime is advertised at an hour and a half and 52 hours on low. You can find a light on sale for between $75 and $100 making it one of the best bargains out there in my opinion

The second Surefire I will recommend is the E2T maxivision tactician. The E-Series lights are slimmer and more pocketable. It will definitely feel smaller in the pocket than 6px above. Despite being smaller it has a slightly higher maximum output with 800 lumens which Surefire claims it's good for an hour and a half. The low output is lower at five lumens which is just about perfect for my use. Maxivision refers to a specially textured reflector that smooth out the beam at the cost of some throw (range).

Perhaps the best feature about this light in my opinion is the user interface. It uses what I consider to be the best two-mode user interface in existence. Simply tighten the head and pushing the rear clicky switch will produce a high output beam. Loosen the head and clicking the switch produces a low output beam. This provides direct access to either low or high from off without the need to cycle through an unwanted mode. The tactician can be had for between $120 and $150.

The second manufacturer I'm going to recommend is no longer considered a boutique manufacturer since they have been around for so long and their lights a widely known, especially among law enforcement and Military users, however they're much smaller than Surefire. You still get a handwritten thank-you note when you purchase one of their products if that tells you anything.

Malkoff Devices offers several hand-held flashlights that will accept either lithium primary or rechargeable lithium-ion cells. This can be advantageous when you're first getting into high-powered flashlights since you can start out with lithium primaries and upgrade to a rechargeable setup when you're ready spend the money. The lights I'm referring to are the MD series. The MD2 accepts two cells, the MD3 three cells, MD4 four cells. Note that the addition of more cells in series does not increase the output but just the runtime. For purposes of our discussion I will refer to the MD2 series since it is most comprable to the lights discussed above. The MD2 is available with several different light engines that have different features. The original MD2 provides the best balance of output, beam shape, and run time. The MD2T uses a total internal reflectance optic to increase the throw of the beam at the cost of some spill (the secondary portion of the beam outside the hotspot). The MD2 HOT increases both throw and maximum output at the cost of run time.

As an add-on option, you can include the high low switch which allows the MD2 to function like the Surefire tactician discussed above. Rotate the head for high or low. Note that this is achieved using a rather geniously designed physical switching mechanism with a resistor instead of a circuit. The light is activated using a forward clicky rear switch. The M61 MD2 is rated at 450 lumens on high. The M61 MD2 HOT is rated at 740 lumens on high. M61 refers to the light engine that comes in the light. The light engine can be removed and swapped for another such as the m91 series which offers higher output still, but will require at least three lithium primaries or two li-ion cells to achieve full output. You can also swap out the light engine for another 2 cell m61 version that is rated at a lower output or different color temperature (neutral, warm, etc.) The md2 will be approximately the same size as the Surefire 6PX above.

There are not many names in the industry associated with quality and reliability quite like Surefire but Malkoff is definitely one of them. The first Malkoff products in circulation were light engines designed to be drop-in replacements for Surefire and Mag incandescent bulbs. All of their products carry a lifetime warranty but I've never thought of it as a conventional warranty from a large company. Rather, if I have a question or an issue of any kind, I just send an email to Kathy Malkoff and I receive a reply in a day or so with my question or issue addressed. It's honestly a very unique experience these days.

There are several configurations and options that make it difficult to quote an exact price for the md2 series lights but generally they will run you between $100. and $175. They are expensive but it's no different than paying for U.S. made hand tools. You you will know when you hold the light in your hand why it commands such a price.

You will no doubt recieve a lot of recommendations here for imported lights and as I mentioned earlier a lot of them provide phenomenal value. I guarantee I have owned more and different kinds of lights than most who will be posting in this thread and after owning literally hundreds of lights, I have sold or given away almost all of them except a small collection which includes those I have recommended above.

In case you're considering spending your money on a Malkoff light but you're not sure it's worth the price , I'll make this offer here as I have in many other places before. If you purchase a new light from Malkoff and you decide after receiving it that it wasn't worth the money, ship it to me and I will PayPal you the documented purchase price. You'll only be out the cost of shipping.

Good luck!

-G
 

Dave455

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A great post from GeoBruin.

My only comment is with regard to Alkaline Batteries.

In my experience, decent ones don’t leak. By decent, I mean Panasonic or Varta. I’ve used these extensively over about the last decade and had zero issues. I don’t take risks, and remove batteries from things I’m not going to use, but I have yet to see any leak.

Both Duracell and Energizer leak. There was a time when Duracell used to guarantee their batteries didn’t leak, but I assume that production costs have been lowered, the product cheapened, and that guarantee is no longer offered.

By far the worst offenders are anything made in China. Dry batteries seem to be one technology that the Chinese just can’t master. Some of the Chinese made lights are half decent now, but I’ve seen new lights packed with batteries and the batteries haven’t survived to the point of sale before leaking!

Totally agree with regard to the Mini Maglite. The original is such an iconic design I was delighted when they produced the LED version, and so disappointed when mine developed exactly the same symptoms as described. That was one of the originals. Seems like the newer are no better.

I have an original incandescent mini Maglite that I converted to LED using an “Opalec” conversion. I used that daily for a couple of years and it’s been superb. Still works. Don’t know if those conversions are still available. I also have a C Cell LED Maglite that has been fine, the problems just seem to be with the smaller lights, and I don’t understand why they are not sorting this out!

Given the O.P’s requirements, I think Surefire is probably the only option, and the cost will be what it is. The only other that I can think of is Barbolight from Spain. They make, amongst other things, a repro of the NASA “Penlight” and it’s superb. Not sure it’s 400 lumens though. I can’t think of any German manufacturer. There are some German firms that offer lights, but I can’t think of any that are actually made in Germany.
 
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exmaxima1

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If reliability in an emergency is a requirement, lithium batteries far exceed alkaline for cold weather use. The CR123a batteries noted above are ideal for storage and sub-zero applications.
 

Badger 13

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Excellent and informative post by GeoBruin. I'm a flashlight "junkie", and a fan of the Surefire and Streamlight. In the shop I have been using the Milwaukee M18 stick light which works perfect for me.
Thanks again GeoBruin for the great information.
 

IndyGarage

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I'm sorry but I'm going to disagree with GeoBruin's recommendations.

He identifies himself as a flashlight aficionado - I'm sure everything he says is true.

However it's like asking an Offroad aficionado what SUV you should buy for camping and he's recommending a Trophy Truck.

I have several Surefire lights that use 123 batteries - they all sit in the drawer with no batteries in them, because I cannot keep enough of those batteries on hand to keep them going.

I just need a flashlight that works well when I need it. I don't really care about the lumens, but I know brighter is better as long as it doesn't use up batteries instantly. I'm not going to war.

I also have several lights that use AA and AAA batteries. Do they work as good as Surefire - for every day use - yes. And I buy batteries by the brick of 100 and I always have them on hand. So i always have a spare set of batteries.

I recently bought a pair of these gearlights for about $13:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VNCWZBF/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Unbelievable light for the money. All aluminum. They run on either three AA's or a single 18650 rechargeable. I've had them a couple months and they are the best flashlight I've had. I used one at as a spotlight at an outdoor party we had a couple weeks ago.
 

Rinspeed

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I have several Surefire lights that use 123 batteries - they all sit in the drawer with no batteries in them, because I cannot keep enough of those batteries on hand to keep them going.





Fairly straight forward process to bore those Surefires to hold a 18650. Buy a Malkoff M61 module for one and you will have an extremely tough, bright light that will last a very long time.
 

GeoBruin

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Fairly straight forward process to bore those Surefires to hold a 18650. Buy a Malkoff M61 module for one and you will have an extremely tough, bright light that will last a very long time.
Boring Surefire p60 style lights for 18650 is popular and there are seller's like Oveready that will do it for you and ship you a bored host if you don't have the capability. Note however that the slimmer e series lights don't have enough meat to be bored for larger cells. They will however accept a slimmer li-ion like a 16650, albeit with reduced capacity.
 

Legion Prime

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The TK30 is their long range laser light for $270, overkill when the PD35 is 1000 lumens for $72. https://www.fenixlighting.com/product/pd35-tactical-edition-fenix-flashlight/

Ahh thank you, their filtering was weird for me last night. After posting I was browsing some more since it had been a while and was finding that clicking on different subcategories of lights would bring up lights that it wasn't showing me when filtering after clicking on the flashlight major category. Or heck maybe it could just have been me up late that was missing something. Haha
If you're going to take recommendations in the SF price range about the only thing I could possibly add to GeoBruin's excellent post is to check out Modlite Systems. They've been making lights that the past couple years have been gaining favor over even Surefire. Worth checking out at least even if for no other reason than to see what else is out there.
 

seber

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I'll second indygarage on the cheaper lights. More than good enough for real world use. Those surefires and Malkoffs are no doubt great lights, but just not needed for anything short of spaceship use. Also, I'm not sure about the battery recommendation. I've never seen a flashlight size Varta, but I have had Panasonic batteries leak on me. The first time I just thought it can happen to any battery. But when it happened twice, I wrote them off my usage list.
 

Sidchrome

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The Olight R20 Javelot is my favourite work torch, good size, quality and price. Plus rechargeable with micro USB. 3 different brightness.

 
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American Locomotive

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https://www.nebotools.com/
Not sure where they manufacture but their headquarters located just a few minutes from me. I’ve got a few lights from them and my favorite is my Slyde.
We used NEBO "Big Larry" at work, and while they were great lights - they absolutely demolished batteries.

To the OP: If you get a flashlight that uses AA batteries, I recommend you use the Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries. They're quite a bit more expensive than Alkaline batteries, but they have a 20 year shelf life, will not leak, and last MUCH longer in high-drain applications (like a 400 lumen flashlight).
 

jshillin

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I'm sorry but I'm going to disagree with GeoBruin's recommendations.

He identifies himself as a flashlight aficionado - I'm sure everything he says is true.

However it's like asking an Offroad aficionado what SUV you should buy for camping and he's recommending a Trophy Truck.

I have several Surefire lights that use 123 batteries - they all sit in the drawer with no batteries in them, because I cannot keep enough of those batteries on hand to keep them going.

I just need a flashlight that works well when I need it. I don't really care about the lumens, but I know brighter is better as long as it doesn't use up batteries instantly. I'm not going to war.

I also have several lights that use AA and AAA batteries. Do they work as good as Surefire - for every day use - yes. And I buy batteries by the brick of 100 and I always have them on hand. So i always have a spare set of batteries.

I recently bought a pair of these gearlights for about $13:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VNCWZBF/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Unbelievable light for the money. All aluminum. They run on either three AA's or a single 18650 rechargeable. I've had them a couple months and they are the best flashlight I've had. I used one at as a spotlight at an outdoor party we had a couple weeks ago.

Thanks. I ordered that for my dad along with some 18650 and charger. I buy him a new flashlight every year because he's hard on them.
 

dacan23

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I was going to recommend the OP check out Olight lights but resisted because the dated USA/German requirement even after maglites turned to garbage.

I also hate any and all alkaline, they all leak. Part of the issue is devices vampiring drain on them when not in use, when they get close to zero almost guaranteed leakage. Some multi battery devices may still work if one battery gets to zero, this is also guaranteed leakage.

The Olight R20 Javelot is my favourite work torch, good size, quality and price. Plus rechargeable with micro USB. 3 different brightness.

 

Sidchrome

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I was going to recommend the OP check out Olight lights but resisted because the dated USA/German requirement even after maglites turned to garbage.



I also hate any and all alkaline, they all leak. Part of the issue is devices vampiring drain on them when not in use, when they get close to zero almost guaranteed leakage. Some multi battery devices may still work if one battery gets to zero, this is also guaranteed leakage.




I agree with you about alkaline batteries.

My Olights stay charged a long time and is so much more convenient than consumable batteries.
 
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catalytic

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Thank you all for the fantastic replies -- way better info than I hoped for. Sounds like a surefire is in my future.

GeoBruin -- Why do you like the 6PX aluminum series over the G2X polymer series? I usually don't buy plastic tools, but a polymer could have the potential to be quite tough to break depending on what they used and it saves on weight.

Also, I'm wary of durability problems with 'clicky' switches -- is this a failure point for these lights?

Last question -- what do you think about the Surefire Titan Plus? I like the idea of standard AAA batteries as I always have a bunch on hand (disposable Lithiums for electronics mostly) -- I use a flashlight a fair amount, but I never 'expect' to, so it's nice to not worry about charging or specialty batteries.
 

M6erfan

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I will add to the Malkoff suggestions here. I do not own one of their flashlights but I have several of there drop-in engines and they are outstanding build quality.

I buy previous gen Surefire 6P's cheap on eBay and convert them to Malkoff drop-ins. I much prefer the older 6P to their newer 6PX. Best dang flashlights I have are the ones I 'build' myself.
 

Rinspeed

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Thank you all for the fantastic replies -- way better info than I hoped for. Sounds like a surefire is in my future.

GeoBruin -- Why do you like the 6PX aluminum series over the G2X polymer series? I usually don't buy plastic tools, but a polymer could have the potential to be quite tough to break depending on what they used and it saves on weight.




Just a thought but a great suggestion would be to pick up an older incan. Surefire 6P on Ebay and adding a Malkoff M61 module to it. It will be a much better and tougher light than just about anything you will find new considering your requirements, other than the high/low.
 

Rinspeed

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I will add to the Malkoff suggestions here. I do not own one of their flashlights but I have several of there drop-in engines and they are outstanding build quality.

I buy previous gen Surefire 6P's cheap on eBay and convert them to Malkoff drop-ins.




They say great minds think alike, or is it simple minds. :D
 

Dave455

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Last question -- what do you think about the Surefire Titan Plus? I like the idea of standard AAA batteries as I always have a bunch on hand (disposable Lithiums for electronics mostly) -- I use a flashlight a fair amount, but I never 'expect' to, so it's nice to not worry about charging or specialty batteries.

Awesome light! This one has been in my pocket every working day for perhaps the last 5 years! It replaced a bigger Surefire E1 Backup.

Yes, standard AAA batteries are a bonus. I tend to use the Lithium. Again, they don’t seem to leak and I like something that will work reliably in low temperatures. Another good option are eneloop.

Bear in mind that these lights are small. Little bigger than a Maglite Solitaire, but they pack a punch for their size. I have a bigger light that I tend to use in parallel with this, usually a 6P LED, but while that changes according to what I’m doing, the Titan Plus is always there!

I wouldn’t totally dismiss the Chinese lights to be honest. The quality has got a lot better in recent years, and there is more variation in quality too. There are some decent lights if you are prepared to pay a little more. I like Olight a good deal, but there are others I suspect are as good.
 

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Rinspeed

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Anyone who uses AA or AAA batteries really needs to wake up and discover Eneloop or GP ReCyko rechargeable batteries. I've been using both of them for 10 years and never have had to throw a single one out. The GP ReCykos really are a sleeper because they put up numbers very close to the Eneloops yet are about half the cost. Why throw your hard earned money away. :confused:
 

M6erfan

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They say great minds think alike, or is it simple minds. :D

Speaking for myself, I'm going with simple...

Seriously though, it's really a no brainer. You customize engine & battery platform and in an aluminum alloy body. All made in the USA with proven durability. Cheaper than overseas stuff. :dunno:

I do like, and own, Zebralight though.
 

Rinspeed

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I do like, and own, Zebralight though.




I own lights made by most of the big names mentioned in these threads. When you take in all the different considerations damn near all of them come up short compared to Zebralight for a small EDC light. As I've mentioned before they really don't have much competition in the small light market, not even close.
 

KnurledNut

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Where you guys buying Malkoff?
Their website appears to be sold out of most everything.
:dunno:
 
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