Tools of Japan

[kanai]

Koken adapter and ktc socket but needs the plastic....

Nice. One of the Japanese tool review youtubers I saw had wrapped plastic tape on the end of his impact socket in lieu of the plastic sleeve from the manufacturer.

 

[Reed Prince]

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[kanai]

I was looking for a Ko-ken set and wanted something that has a wide selection. Ko-ken sells only 1 set that has both 1/4 and 3/8 metric sockets in the same set: 2260M

I was going to buy it new but checked the online auctions and found a seller who was selling what looked like a brand new set. I got it for 25% off retail. I will pick up some finger spinners and some universal joints and a longer 3/8 extension but this is a great set to build out from, imo.

I will keep an eye out for a 1/2" set as well. Ideally also Ko-ken but as they're rare on the auction sites, I may end up with a different set instead.

https://imgur.com/a/fJ0eOwH

 

[GrantCee]

A few pages back I mentioned that I'd picked up my first Ko-ken ZEAL ratchet (the basic 3725Z.)

One of the things that always kept me from buying one was the polymer handle. I've never really liked those, as I think it makes the ratchets look a little cheesy. I would much prefer knurling. But, since that's the only way Ko-ken makes the ZEAL ratchets, I didn't have much of a choice.

Fast-forward to now: in the last couple of weeks I've been working on my wife's car. Our garage is unheated, and it's winter. The all-metal handles of my other ratchets (Wright and Proto) are very cold, and even with mechanic's gloves on the uncovered steel transfers the cold into my fingers. They get so chilled the joints actually hurt.

The polymer handle on the ZEAL ratchet, I discovered, is warm to the touch and doesn't freeze my fingers. I can work much more comfortably, and for a longer period. Big win for the ZEAL!

I'm now planning my next ZEAL ratchet purchases. I guess they really do know what they're doing.

 

[macgee]

Question: Who makes the best stubby ratchet driver?

I bought the Vessel stubby and I like it and will keep it but the handle is very short.
I like the size, feel and shape of the Bahco but curious on opinion about Japan ratchet drivers like Koken, KTC, Vessel.......etc. There's side play in my Vessel ratchet, it's fairly loose in side play and adjusting the direction is not the easiest while using it. The back drag is good.

Thanks

 

[Qualitytools]

A few pages back I mentioned that I'd picked up my first Ko-ken ZEAL ratchet (the basic 3725Z.)

One of the things that always kept me from buying one was the polymer handle. I've never really liked those, as I think it makes the ratchets look a little cheesy. I would much prefer knurling. But, since that's the only way Ko-ken makes the ZEAL ratchets, I didn't have much of a choice.

Fast-forward to now: in the last couple of weeks I've been working on my wife's car. Our garage is unheated, and it's winter. The all-metal handles of my other ratchets (Wright and Proto) are very cold, and even with mechanic's gloves on the uncovered steel transfers the cold into my fingers. They get so chilled the joints actually hurt.

The polymer handle on the ZEAL ratchet, I discovered, is warm to the touch and doesn't freeze my fingers. I can work much more comfortably, and for a longer period. Big win for the ZEAL!

I'm now planning my next ZEAL ratchet purchases. I guess they really do know what they're doing.

You bring up a good point, thanks for sharing

 

[kanai]

curious on opinion about Japan ratchet drivers like Koken, KTC, Vessel.......etc.

Vessel has this set: https://www.vessel.co.jp/product/screwdriver/detail/250002

and

https://www.vessel.co.jp/product/screwdriver/detail/247026

Signet and Annex both have similar stubby ratchet drivers that are not made in Japan afaik.

KTC has this, made in Taiwan

https://ktc.jp/catalog/index-category/category-list/dbrs06

I don't think Ko-ken makes a ratchet driver.

 

[macgee]

Thanks kanai,

I have the stubby Vessel you mentioned and posted pics earlier in this thread with a modification. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8846022&postcount=5971

That one has great back drag but the mechanism is very loose with lots of side play in the ratchet mech. I'm looking for one that is better, also with with a slightly longer handle.

I know Japanese ratchet screwdrivers have the best back drag but is there one that has less side play or are they all like that?

 

[Ralf11]

Question: Who makes the best stubby ratchet driver?

I bought the Vessel stubby and I like it and will keep it but the handle is very short.
I like the size, feel and shape of the Bahco but curious on opinion about Japan ratchet drivers like Koken, KTC, Vessel.......etc. There's side play in my Vessel ratchet, it's fairly loose in side play and adjusting the direction is not the easiest while using it. The back drag is good.

Thanks

I like the Vessel stubby I got, but also have some side play.

Interested to hear of other options.

 

[tanukiboy]

I like the Vessel stubby I got, but also have some side play.

Interested to hear of other options.

I have one Vessel and two different Anex ratcheting stubby drivers. Even though I would generally rate Anex tools as a step or two below Vessel tools, I think their ratcheting stubbies are better. Nice tight bit engagement, nice low backdrag. Also, I think both Anex drivers have a better direction switching mechanism. With the Vessel, I find it's too easy to switch direction accidentally while using it.

EDIT: Here are the links:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B004OR75VC/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B07KYL5J5Y/

There's also this one, which looks like a "stubbier" version of one of the drivers I linked above:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B085K31H9G/

 

[Reed Prince]

Here's what I have close at hand. Two stubby Vessels, an Anex and a Sunflag. Also a full sized Vessel that can be used as a stubby if you remove the blade. I haven't noticed much of a difference in bit engagement, but the Sunflag has the lowest backdrag. It also only has 10 teeth.

I seldom use stubby ratchets, but do employ full sized ones often, and like tanukiboy, I've found that I often unintentionally twist the direction control ring of the Vessel. I suppose if I held it "correctly" that wouldn't happen, but it does. So my go-to full sized Japanese ratchet driver is the Anex 397-D that he provided a link to above.

img photo hosting

 

[pizza]

my palmac order from their black friday sale finally arrived:

Koken 2763-100 | 1/4" Sq. Drive, Wobble-Fix Extension Bar
2763-100 1 $10.51 USD $10.51 USD
Koken 2763-150 | 1/4" Sq. Drive, Wobble-Fix Extension Bar
2763-150 1 $13.43 USD $13.43 USD
Koken 2763-50 | 1/4" Sq. Drive, Wobble-Fix Extension Bar
2763-50 2 $8.23 USD $16.46 USD
Koken 3776N | 3/8" Sq. Drive, Swivel Head Ratchet
3776N 1 $85.71 USD $85.71 USD
Koken Nut Gripper 10 Piece Socket Set | RS3450M/10 | 3/8" Square Drive | 6 Point
RS3450M/10 1 $76.83 USD $76.83 USD
Koken PK3763/6 | Offset Extension Bar Set 3/8" inch Sq. Drive
PK3763/6 1 $75.23 USD $75.23 USD
Koken Z-Series 2756Z | Z-Series 1/4" Square Drive Quick Spinner
2756Z 1 $12.69 USD $12.69 USD
Koken Z-Series CLIP.P/5-1/2
CLIP.P/5-1/2 1 $1.74 USD $1.74 USD
Koken Z-Series CLIP.P/5-1/4
CLIP.P/5-1/4 1 $1.74 USD $1.74 USD
Koken Z-Series CLIP.P/5-3/8
CLIP.P/5-3/8 1 $1.74 USD $1.74 USD

bah, looks like i accidentally ordered two 50mm 1/4" extensions instead of one. not really worth returning it. oh well. lol

the 3776N ratchet is pretty nice. shoutouts to Dave455.
the handle feels amazing. love that satin + knurling.

 

[Brando_Damo]

Got a little haul of Nepros and Ko-ken goodies in!
Now that I have a 1/4” Nepros and Koken zeal ratchet I was able to do a little comparison. I do like the Nepros better. It feels better in almost every way. Also I’m really happy with Ko-ken’s nutgrip sockets, they’re excellent!

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-Brando

 

[LVIIIR]

Those look excellent!

 

[noid]

Everyone always talks about just how light and pleasant the zeal floating pawl backdrag is; well one of their recent December videos showed actual values:

 

[pizza]

Everyone always talks about just how light and pleasant the zeal floating pawl backdrag is; well one of their recent December videos showed actual values:

just fyi, that figure is in their catalog. the first several pages of the zeal section are worth a read if you haven't seen it. that and the vid you link to serve as a good intro to zseries.

also, that video was published in english as early as 2018 on their actual channel:

you're looking at a repost of the video.

edit: oh snap, i see what you're saying! the vid you linked to is a rework featuring their new mechanism!!!
the vids are so similar that i didn't notice.

 

[noid]

just fyi, that figure is in their catalog. the first several pages of the zeal section are worth a read if you haven't seen it. that and the vid you link to serve as a good intro to zseries.

also, that video was published in english as early as 2018 on their actual channel:

you're looking at a repost of the video.

edit: oh snap, i see what you're saying! the vid you linked to is a rework featuring their new mechanism!!!
the vids are so similar that i didn't notice.

Yup, and I should add that the youtube channel I posted is right off their Japanese website. Koken USA would be the reposter if it were the same video.

 

[GrantCee]

edit: oh snap, i see what you're saying! the vid you linked to is a rework featuring their new mechanism!!!

Yep, same light backdrag!

Now if Palmac or Amazon.jp will just get some...

 

[jonshonda]

I know this is OT, but all these Nepros and Koken ratchet posts make me want to buy one. Even though every since I got my Milwaukee 3/8 M12 ratchet.....I barely pick up my SO Dual 80's.

Think I might just try zeal extensions and sockets!

 

[M6erfan]

I know this is OT, but all these Nepros and Koken ratchet posts make me want to buy one. Even though every since I got my Milwaukee 3/8 M12 ratchet.....I barely pick up my SO Dual 80's.

Think I might just try zeal extensions and sockets!

Funny. Ever since I got my M12 ratchet, it sits in the drawer 90% of the time...

Ko-ken FTW!

 

[pizza]

koken wobble-fix extensions... one extension to rule them all? maybe not.

hoping to replace all the random no-name **** i already have, i bought the full set of them in 3/8" and three sizes of them in 1/4" (50, 100, and 150mm) thinking they'd be my only extensions.

the catalog says they're not as strong as normal extensions, but i decided that i'd start worrying about that if i ever broke one.

build quality is very nice. i love the finish and knurling.

the wobble feature works as advertised, but note that sockets aren't held firmly. unlike on a universal joint, the socket just kind of flops around on the extension when it's in wobble mode.

what i was not expecting, however, is that the compatibility isn't perfect with all kinds of socketry. particularly with zeal stuff where they've trimmed the fat.

the anvil is longer than normal. there's a square portion below the tapered part that needs to be pushed in for it to be fully engaged (not in wobble mode).

i show this here with a red line indicating the point of full insertion:

what are the consequences? unfortunately, i don't have all of my socket stuff here with me rn to test.
but on standard (more like short) zeal 1/4" sockets, it extends into the socket (somthing like a normal extension shown on left, wobble-fix fully inserted shown on right):

this gives less depth to engage a fastener. does it make a difference on this already-short socket? maybe. dunno yet.

on sockets that have obstructions like this smaller 1/4" socket on the right where the square drive isn't broached all the way through, you can't actually lock it in all the way. you can only use it in wobble mode:

so i guess that these wobble-fix extensions are still usable at least in wobble mode with everything i've tried so far, but full insertion is not possible or reliable with some sockets. might want to re-think these as your main set of extensions if you have a lot of zeal stuff.

maybe i'll eventually buy more extensions (either in zeal or just normal koken), maybe not.

 

[E.T.]

Or you can buy regular Koken sockets

I often wondered why wobble fix weren’t offered in Zeal flavors. I can guess the reduced tolerance is why.

 

[superautobacs]

Z-series doesn't and won't have wobble-fix extensions in their lineup for that reason.

Z-series should also expand on their extensions to have a variety of lengths. Their lineup has remained the same for 10 years.

Come to think of it, I rarely use wobble-fix extensions. Instead, I use my Z-series universals all the time. It would be nice if Ko-ken released Z-series wobble sockets. That's something I've been wishing for, for many years.

 

[kanai]

So, I got lucky.

I was looking for a 1/2" socket set, ideally Ko-ken. I was also looking at Tone, because their pricing is probably half of Ko-ken. I was also looking at the auction sites to see if there was something used.

For some reason, Amazon Japan was pricing a nice 1/2" 12 point Ko-ken metric set at 50% off retail. I checked numerous other sites and they were 2X what Amazon was charging. I don't know why this happened but I purchased that set and as it was Prime, it arrived the next day. As soon as I purchased that single set, when I went back to the product page, the pricing had risen 100%. Amazon rarely makes mistakes but maybe this one time they did?

Ko-ken 4261M

 

[pizza]

Z-series should also expand on their extensions to have a variety of lengths. Their lineup has remained the same for 10 years.

Come to think of it, I rarely use wobble-fix extensions. Instead, I use my Z-series universals all the time.

do you have favorite extensions?

 

[kblee27]

I use Koken wobble extension and I lost a couple of sockets inside the engine compartment. While pulling out the extension, it accidentally hit the chassis and the socket dropped off. It's getting too expensive for me to lose Koken sockets this way.

 

[kanai]

KTC is selling a new Taiwan-made 18V cordless, brushless, torque-limiting impact wrench. Looks like a Milwaukee, tbh. JTAE473

I don't really see why one would choose KTC over Makita, tbh.

https://ktc.jp/files/catalog/photos_l/jtae473.png

https://ktc.jp/files/catalog/photos_l/jtae473_led.png

 

[Dave455]

Well, I’ve said this before, but the Z Series / Zeal tools are specialised tools for certain applications where space is limited. They are great, but Z series sockets are designed to be used with Z series ratchets and extensions, and they are not perfect for every task.

For most folks the regular lineup is preferable. The tools are heftier, not subject to any limitations, and the range on offer is huge compared to the Z series. Of course, the garage journal solution to this problem is to have both.

Personally, much like superautobacs above, I don’t like these wobble fix extensions, and don’t even own any. I’ve never been convinced they won’t damage my sockets at high torques, and the superb KoKen universal joints work much better!

 

[Qualitytools]

KTC is selling a new Taiwan-made 18V cordless, brushless, torque-limiting impact wrench. Looks like a Milwaukee, tbh. JTAE473

I don't really see why one would choose KTC over Makita, tbh.

https://ktc.jp/files/catalog/photos_l/jtae473.png

https://ktc.jp/files/catalog/photos_l/jtae473_led.png

I like the way it has the lights positioned around the head. Thanks for sharing

 

[kanai]

Asahi has a few tools that I think are relatively unique.

They sell a long crows foot wrench in both 3/8 and 1/2.

9.5mm[3/8”] Long Crowfoot Wrench, Spanner Type

12.7mm[1/2”]Long Crowfoot Wrench, Spanner Type

Asahi also sells a single-sided deep ring spanner, but it fits into places where even a deep offset wrench won't fit. Apparently this is single-sided so that you can put a breaker bar on it (although Asahi would never suggest that you do that...)

 

[measuredtwice]

Nice photos. I have the fixed extensions. Need to get those nice universals. Should I get the non Zeal universals to match the non Zeal extensions? Any compatibility problems with regular extensions/sockets and Zeal universals?

 

[GrantCee]

I use Koken wobble extension and I lost a couple of sockets inside the engine compartment. While pulling out the extension, it accidentally hit the chassis and the socket dropped off. It's getting too expensive for me to lose Koken sockets this way.

I'm with you. I got the wobble-fix extensions first, and quickly decided that they're a more specialized tool than people have made them out to be. What they do, which is wobble, they do well — but there are downsides to using them as general-purpose extensions.

I replaced them with the standard Ko-ken extensions, which are superb.

 

[gjusername]

aww geeze. Just last night I spent way more money than I should on koken wobbles and a couple zeal socket sets! lol oh well, I do like wobbles.

So I guess the zeal extensions have a shorter drive end as well? are there any issues using them with regular sockets?

 

[GrantCee]

Nice photos. I have the fixed extensions. Need to get those nice universals. Should I get the non Zeal universals to match the non Zeal extensions? Any compatibility problems with regular extensions/sockets and Zeal universals?

I have both the regular and Zeal universals, and near as I can tell the only difference (other than the profiling on the bottom) are the retention cuts inside the female portion. They're similar to the enlarged retention grooves pictured in the catalog. There is a small possibility that the retention ball is of a slightly different diameter, but I don't have an optical comparator to measure them.

Trying both universals on American (Proto and Wright), Ko-ken, and Zeal ratchets, they seem to fit similarly. The fit of the Zeal universal on the Zeal ratchet might be a little tighter, but it's very close between them. However, when attached to an American ratchet, particularly the Proto, the Zeal universal is much harder to remove than the regular version.

As to socket retention, there seems to be little to no difference with American and Ko-ken regular sockets. I have no Zeal sockets to test.

It's likely that the true benefit of the Zeal universal only comes when it's put between Zeal sockets and ratchets. This would make sense, as Ko-ken seems to have designed them as a system. Other than the difficulty removing the Zeal universal from my Proto ratchet, there seems to be no downside to using either with non-Zeal products.

 

[measuredtwice]

I have both the regular and Zeal universals, and near as I can tell the only difference (other than the profiling on the bottom) are the retention cuts inside the female portion. They're similar to the enlarged retention grooves pictured in the catalog. There is a small possibility that the retention ball is of a slightly different diameter, but I don't have an optical comparator to measure them.

Trying both universals on American (Proto and Wright), Ko-ken, and Zeal ratchets, they seem to fit similarly. The fit of the Zeal universal on the Zeal ratchet might be a little tighter, but it's very close between them. However, when attached to an American ratchet, particularly the Proto, the Zeal universal is much harder to remove than the regular version.

As to socket retention, there seems to be little to no difference with American and Ko-ken regular sockets. I have no Zeal sockets to test.

It's likely that the true benefit of the Zeal universal only comes when it's put between Zeal sockets and ratchets. This would make sense, as Ko-ken seems to have designed them as a system. Other than the difficulty removing the Zeal universal from my Proto ratchet, there seems to be no downside to using either with non-Zeal products.

Thank you. Very helpful.

 

[macgee]

Here's what I have close at hand. Two stubby Vessels, an Anex and a Sunflag. Also a full sized Vessel that can be used as a stubby if you remove the blade. I haven't noticed much of a difference in bit engagement, but the Sunflag has the lowest backdrag. It also only has 10 teeth.

I seldom use stubby ratchets, but do employ full sized ones often, and like tanukiboy, I've found that I often unintentionally twist the direction control ring of the Vessel. I suppose if I held it "correctly" that wouldn't happen, but it does. So my go-to full sized Japanese ratchet driver is the Anex 397-D that he provided a link to above.

img photo hosting

Thank you tanukiboy and Reed,

Sorry for the delay, only the saw your post's today.

Very good info and I went back back in this thread to see tanukiboy's posts. Have to say this is such an awesome thread, going back again to the earlier pages and seeing again the wealth of info and so many cool tools that I wasn't aware prior to reading this thread, thanks to everyone who's been posting. Next up is a Lobster UM24XD wrench.

The Anex 397 looks interesting and I like the extended handed with ball grip, seems very similar to Vessel's (just received my vessel 220w/craftsman with hollow ground slotted's yesterday). I really like the ball grip, you can comfortably apply a lot of torque.
Side play is an issue with the vessel I have, same as my Bahco but I like the soft grip of the Bahco more. The small Vessel stubby has little back drag especially now after flushing it out and lubing it with new very light lubricant. I also really like the knurled hand turn shaft, I use that often and appreciate it but the side play and ultra short handle is an issue. I would have thought there were higher end, better tolerance ratchet bit drivers out of Japan.


Question: Does the lower part of the grip where the label is rotates with the shaft or does it stay stationary like the ball grip part?

The one concern about the Annex and like other Japanese standard hex bit holders is that they don't work well with my existing set of German and Swiss Bits (long and short). I fixed this issue with adding a set screw to lock in the bit or prevent from going to deep which has been really helpful.

PS> In case you have a Chapman (USA) set of 1/4" hex bits; they work very well in Vessel bit holders when normal 25mm/1" ones don't. They're longer and have depth stops to prevent from going in too deep. They also sell hollow ground slotted and JIS PH# bits for cheap:

https://chapmanmfg.com/products/crosspoint-bits-for-japanese-indus-std-jis-screws?_pos=2&_sid=10140e4ca&_ss=r

 

[Fedwrench]

Ko-Ken released another video of their new 72 tooth ratchet on You Tube today. Unfortunately, if you read the text that accompanies the video, Ko-Ken is only releasing the 3/8 72 tooth zeal ratchet in 2021. No word on 1/4 or 1/2 drive versions.

 

[GrantCee]

Ko-Ken released another video of their new 72 tooth ratchet on You Tube today. Unfortunately, if you read the text that accompanies the video, Ko-Ken is only releasing the 3/8 72 tooth zeal ratchet in 2021. No word on 1/4 or 1/2 drive versions.

In the video interview Factory Gear did with the Koken engineers, they said (more or less) that the 1/4 drive wouldn't be ready for some time; I don't even recall them mentioning the 1/2 drive.

Don't really care for the 1/2 drive, but I really want the 1/4 version — because that has to happen before the 3/8-drive-in-1/4-body can happen.

 

[noid]

"The 72T is being released in the Z-Series 3/8" ratchets only in 2021. We will be releasing the 72T in ¼" and ½" sizes, without compromising the body sizes and low backlash as our testing allows. Look for more new product releases in 2022."

Looks like the new ratchets are available on Palmac, but their pricing relative to amazon jp looks to be heinous, near x2 even at their sale price. This is comparing to other zeal ratchets as I cant yet find the zeal listing on amazon jp.

 

[Reed Prince]

Question: Does the lower part of the grip where the label is rotates with the shaft or does it stay stationary like the ball grip part?

Which driver are you referring to?