Panels for a 400 amp service

[Bigredford]

Trying to figure out what panel would be best for my main panel.

I have two good size branch circuits I'll be feeding out of the main panel.

One 150 amp feed to the sub panel in my living space and a 125-175 amp feed for a rotary phase converter.

I assume the panels that Home Depot or Lowe's carry can't handle branch circuits that big.

I have a preference for Square D.

 

[Bert_]

Pretty much 2 options. Either a group of disconnects or a single panelboard. You're not buying a panelboard at home depot, they are typically built to order.

Probably cheaper to do multiple mains.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

175a feed for a rotary converter? good lord whats the HP rating on that puppy?

 

[cvairwerks]

Need to check your POCO motor limits before you get carried away. Most residential services have a max limit of 7.5 hp. That limit is causing me some grief, as I really need the capability of running up to 20 hp.

 

[Bigredford]

175a feed for a rotary converter? good lord whats the HP rating on that puppy?

From what I saw on the American Rotary website they suggest 175a minimum for a 60 hp phase converter. Realistically I probably need a 40 hp but I know me and I'll probably find larger shop equipment

Far as the power company....they ave my info for load calculation and I'm waiting to hear back.

 

[mike93lx]

This isn't a diy-level project if you are talking about 60hp RPc. You need someone that knows what they are doing to spec this, IMO.

 

[Terry D]

I would do a 200 amp breaker in a enclosure to feed your living space sub panel. Your not going to easily find a 150 amp panel, so just make it all 200 amp

As far as the other 200 amp panel coming off your service. Most, if not all off the shelf stab in panels are limited to a 125 amp maximum branch circuit.

 

[13mo]

This isn't a diy-level project if you are talking about 60hp RPc. You need someone that knows what they are doing to spec this, IMO.

A 60 HP RPC requires a 75 kVA transformer, according to the manufacturer of my phase converter. They also require a minimum 250 amp single-phase service to the converter which would require a load center larger than a typical 200-225 amp residential/light commercial unit.

The OP got the power company involved, that was absolutely required as this is definitely not a typical "400 amp" large residential service with a CL320 meter and two 200 amp panels. It will be interesting what they say as it depends on who the power company is and if he has three phase utility lines anywhere nearby.

 

[mike93lx]

A 60 HP RPC requires a 75 kVA transformer, according to the manufacturer of my phase converter. They also require a minimum 250 amp single-phase service to the converter which would require a load center larger than a typical 200-225 amp residential/light commercial unit.

The OP got the power company involved, that was absolutely required as this is definitely not a typical "400 amp" large residential service with a CL320 meter and two 200 amp panels. It will be interesting what they say as it depends on who the power company is and if he has three phase utility lines anywhere nearby.

There is essentially no way a POCO is allowing this on a normal residential service.

Starting that up would brown out my entire neighborhood.

 

[Bert_]

I'm pretty surprised at a less than 200A feed for a 60hp converter. I've wired 60hp converters before. Usually rated to run 120hp total. Normally feed with a 600A disconnect.

 

[Bigredford]

I first looked into getting three phase to my shop. I'm about 1300 feet and six poles away from three phase. Without doing any paper work I was told it will be expensive. I said how expensive? 30k? The respond was yes at least 30k....

 

[13mo]

I first looked into getting three phase to my shop. I'm about 1300 feet and six poles away from three phase. Without doing any paper work I was told it will be expensive. I said how expensive? 30k? The respond was yes at least 30k....

I am six poles and 1600 feet away from the utility's main 3 phase distribution line. Their policy is that an engineer has to approve all brand-new services and also any requests for service changes, so they came out to my building site to determine the line routing and also how much service I would need. He repeatedly mentioned the main distribution line was 3 phase, so I offhandedly asked the engineer what it would cost if somebody wanted 3 phase service. I was told $80k/mile plus the cost of transformers (~$10k) if the load calculations said no other improvements were needed, and "more" if the distribution equipment upstream needed upgraded. He then said unless you are running a bunch of very large 3 phase motors, everybody just uses some kind of a phase converter as it's substantially cheaper.

 

[Bigredford]

Here's where I got my info

 

[mike93lx]

That screenshot is illegible, at least for me

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Its only 20KB so its blurry

 

[Bigredford]

Let's try this....

https://www.americanrotary.com/pdfviewer/?pdf=3108

 

[mike93lx]

It's good to plan, but until your POCO says it is OK I wouldn't go too far with any of this.

 

[dcg9381]

I first looked into getting three phase to my shop. I'm about 1300 feet and six poles away from three phase. Without doing any paper work I was told it will be expensive. I said how expensive? 30k? The respond was yes at least 30k....

I have a family member that does wood fabrication for a living. He's got 3-phase converters on 240V circuits. Doesn't do 60hp motors though.


Note, both 320A and 400A main service here is typically drawn with 2 x 200A main panels.

 

[Bigredford]

Here's the 150 amp panel I got at Home Depot.

I did some looking around online and it looks like 200 amp Square D QO panels will fit my needs.


https://www.se.com/us/en/faqs/FA112914/

I met with a engineer from Georgia Power on Tuesday of last week. So far the plan is to set a pole at the end of my driveway and run primary wire underground about 250 feet to a pad mount transformer and out if the transformer for about 40 feet to my building.

Haven't heard back on particulars yet.

 

[Terry D]

Here's the 150 amp panel I got at Home Depot.

I did some looking around online and it looks like 200 amp Square D QO panels will fit my needs.


https://www.se.com/us/en/faqs/FA112914/

I met with a engineer from Georgia Power on Tuesday of last week. So far the plan is to set a pole at the end of my driveway and run primary wire underground about 250 feet to a pad mount transformer and out if the transformer for about 40 feet to my building.

Haven't heard back on particulars yet.

Just goes to show what's available in different parts of the country. I haven't seen a 150 amp MB panel for sale here in over 20 years

 

[jar944]

What are you running that needs a 60hp converter?

 

[Norcal]

Just goes to show what's available in different parts of the country. I haven't seen a 150 amp MB panel for sale here in over 20 years

150A or more rare, 175A panels always seemed to be a waste to me, major difference in price is the conductor size, but if the job is one of those that is a low budget specials every penny or fraction of a penny counts.

 

[86turbodsl]

Your solution is a pony started rpc. inrush is only big (7X usually) when you have no spinning iron in addition to charging the iron. I have a 20hp phase converter on a residential 200A panel, it doesn't even dim the lights when i turn it on, because a 2hp pony spins it up to synchronous speed prior to engaging the idler. My pole transformer is 50kva. nobody complains. You could do the same on yours. Might not be off the shelf though.

 

[Bigredford]

Should hear back from the engineer tomorrow from Georgia Power. Plan is still to run underground from the road to a pad mount transformer and then to the meter. He said he spec'd a 75kva transformer.

Picked up two 200 amp Square D QO load centers.
Also got two quotes from American Rotary for a 60 hp rotary phase converter.

 

[Bigredford]

Can I put USE-2 aluminum wire in conduit?

I'd like to run 4/0 aluminum from my meter to each 200 amp disconnect. Got some of this left over from my temporary power run to my building.

4/0 for my two hots and neutral. #4 copper for ground.

 

[jeepxj]

I really want to see what kinda iron you're running on a 60hp rotary.

 

[Bigredford]

I really want to see what kinda iron you're running on a 60hp rotary.

Almost all my equipment is 240v with the exception of a welder I have. The welders low voltage is 480.

Both drill presses are 5 hp fla is 15 amps each 240v
K&T mill is 5 hp and 15 amps Fla 240v
Gorton mill has a 2 hp spindle motor 6.8 amps 240v

Monarch lathe is a 10 hp and 28 amps, same for the Prentice lathe. 240v

Have a 10 hp air compressor....28 amps 240v
20 hp compressor 54 amps 240v

Cutter grinder 1 1/2 hp 4 amps 240v

Lincoln welder with a 7.5 hp motor that spins a dc generator for welding current 22 amps 240v


Red-d-arc e300 3+2 welder 22 amps at 480v

 

[Bert_]

Can I put USE-2 aluminum wire in conduit?

I'd like to run 4/0 aluminum from my meter to each 200 amp disconnect. Got some of this left over from my temporary power run to my building.

4/0 for my two hots and neutral. #4 copper for ground.

Is it going into the building? Does it have any other ratings on it?

 

[Bigredford]

Is it going into the building? Does it have any other ratings on it?

No other ratings other then 600v

Would run out of the meter base and to a 200 amp disconnect and then from the disconnect straight into a panel.

 

[Norcal]

No other ratings other then 600v

Would run out of the meter base and to a 200 amp disconnect and then from the disconnect straight into a panel.

How are you going to get 6- 4/0 in a 2" pipe? Would be better put one enclosed breaker on each side of the meter can.

 

[Dagny]

Do what you want but I think you should get an electrician to look over your stuff and make some recommendations.

 

[Bigredford]

How are you going to get 6- 4/0 in a 2" pipe? Would be better put one enclosed breaker on each side of the meter can.

I used 2 1/2 between the meter and disconnects.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Almost all my equipment is 240v with the exception of a welder I have. The welders low voltage is 480.

Both drill presses are 5 hp fla is 15 amps each 240v
K&T mill is 5 hp and 15 amps Fla 240v
Gorton mill has a 2 hp spindle motor 6.8 amps 240v

Monarch lathe is a 10 hp and 28 amps, same for the Prentice lathe. 240v

Have a 10 hp air compressor....28 amps 240v
20 hp compressor 54 amps 240v

Cutter grinder 1 1/2 hp 4 amps 240v

Lincoln welder with a 7.5 hp motor that spins a dc generator for welding current 22 amps 240v


Red-d-arc e300 3+2 welder 22 amps at 480v

Are you sure those are the FLA ratings? Cause those are the same as the NEC FLC table ratings. Typically FLA nameplate ratings are lower

 

[jeepxj]

Almost all my equipment is 240v with the exception of a welder I have. The welders low voltage is 480.

Both drill presses are 5 hp fla is 15 amps each 240v
K&T mill is 5 hp and 15 amps Fla 240v
Gorton mill has a 2 hp spindle motor 6.8 amps 240v

Monarch lathe is a 10 hp and 28 amps, same for the Prentice lathe. 240v

Have a 10 hp air compressor....28 amps 240v
20 hp compressor 54 amps 240v

Cutter grinder 1 1/2 hp 4 amps 240v

Lincoln welder with a 7.5 hp motor that spins a dc generator for welding current 22 amps 240v


Red-d-arc e300 3+2 welder 22 amps at 480v

How often are you running all that stuff at once that you need 60hp?

 

[Strouty]

I would ask American Rotary if you can use two smaller units in parallel, then you could probably set things up to run one when you need one, rather than running a single large unit all the time. What tools get run at the same time? Could you limit the 20 HP compressor to use when nothing else is running or is it an integral part of your operation? With the 60HP unit you could just about run everything in your shop at once, is that the plan?

 

[mike93lx]

No other ratings other then 600v

Would run out of the meter base and to a 200 amp disconnect and then from the disconnect straight into a panel.

If the panel is inside, USE-2 is not allowed. Doesn't matter if it is going straight into the panel.

I am all for using what you have, but this is not the application for that wire. The right wire wi coat very little for such a short run

 

[Bigredford]

Motor ratings I used the NEC table. The two 5 horse drill presses are missing data plates off the motors but are the same physical size as the 5 hp motor in the Kearney and Trecker.

My thought was to buy a bigger converter then I need and not have to upgrade later.

It was brought to my attention that my conduit set up for my service entrance doesn't jive with NEC 312.8 (A)

I decided I'd add a wire trough, or gutter under the disconnects and meter base.

Then I drilled my conduit holes oversized.

At this point in considering hard hiring a electrician to handle the work on the service entrance side of this.

Basicly wire the disconnects to the meter and the panels and ground everything properly.

 

[jeepxj]

again how often are you going to use 60hp worth of **** at once? what does american rotary say their most popular size is? why is that the case?

 

[jeepxj]

you could save a boat load of money by changing the compressor to a single phase 240 motor and sizing the rotary to power one load at a time which is likely how you will use the hobby shop

 

[wyliesdiesels]

actual motor load will be quite a bit less than the NEC tables. the tables havent been updated in decades. typical 5hp 1Ø motor is 23a and NEC tables lists 5HP as 28a