Snobbish tools mystery buster

[Skin]

I cant buy tools from Eric the owner of HF, because the borders are closed. Even if they were open, supporting minimum wage workers and Communist Chinese manufacturing at a US discount store is not my thing

Everyone sells Chinese stuff including the trucks so honestly you seem to have a pretty strong double standard going there. Most of Snap-ons actual good cordless stuff is made in China and European dealers are shipped KRA boxes from a Snap-on factory in China. Free pass for them though right?

As far as not supporting any business that has minimum wage employees, you realize thats every business right? You think the Snap-on pickers and packers and customer service reps are living the American dream? Get real.

 

[lardy1]

It's not that far of a stretch. There's a Gearwrench truck in Saginaw. I never thought I'd see that, either.

 

[fxr3guy]

There is definitely some passionate opinions here! HAHAHA Makes for a fun read though. After the video I now know what the hell backdrag is. Not sure if in my way too many years of working on aircraft, I've ever thought, or even cared about it. At least now I can throw the term out to my students and try to pretend I got smart during our virus break.

 

[ssdave]

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[qqzj]

Everybody wants to somehow feel superior to others. The easy way (if you have the money) is to just have more expensive and nicer things than everyone else. Unfortunately, most of us aren't there.

The folks that are at the opposite extreme, and shop at the lowest priced outlet, have no hope of being superior by showing they buy the best and most expensive. So, they can only feel superior in regards to what they are buying and using by changing the rules. They claim superiority on being SMARTER than the RICHER folks. So, they talk about how stupid the ones that buy more expensive tools are. And talk about how much BETTER their cheap tools are (or as good as) (for the price)

Kind of silly, both sides, eh?

Not really. See one side bases its argument purely on opinion and the other side bases the argument on FACTS.

This is actually a sequel to two previous videos where strength was the focus

If anyone thinks some other objective measurement are relevant, please go ahead. Client Graphics might also read this thread

 

[WittHay]

Everyone sells Chinese stuff including the trucks so honestly you seem to have a pretty strong double standard going there. Most of Snap-ons actual good cordless stuff is made in China and European dealers are shipped KRA boxes from a Snap-on factory in China. Free pass for them though right?

As far as not supporting any business that has minimum wage employees, you realize thats every business right? You think the Snap-on pickers and packers and customer service reps are living the American dream? Get real.

All I am saying is that Harbor Freight probably has the highest percentage of Communist China sourced items in a store that sells tools in North America. Snap-on probably has the highest percentage of US made items. Take out all Chinese items out of a HF store and all US made items off a Snap-on truck, both would be fairly empty. Canadian Tire and Princess Auto have a lot of US and Taiwan sourced stuff along with some Canadian made. Probably similar to Northern Tool , Meynards or even Home Depot/ Lowes. The products are divided between a few countrys.

Warehouse workers up here make a decent wage especially in farming and oilfield areas. Overnight parts service with no mistakes is a must. Cant see Snap-on workers at Calgary or Crystal Lake making minimum wage. Most Snap-on stuff comes in big truckloads from the US and is distributed by Purolator a unionized Canadian company. Not much customer service reps needed up here because nobody buys online. Lots of district managers and salesman type guys.

To me the whole Snap-on supply chain from making a ratchet to the dealer provides a lot of good jobs.

 

[ssdave]

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[ssdave]

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[gte718p]

Dont know why people use words like snobbish or slime ball. When i buy a ratchet from Jim the Mac or Snap-on guy, I am supporting US manufacturing and a local businessman who makes above minimum wage who in turn supports more local businesses. If i have a problem with a ratchet at any time he fixes it.

I support US merchant mariners , US longshoremen, US customs and immigration officials, US brokers by buying imports. All really good middle class jobs I’m content to leave less then min wage manufacturing jobs and pollution in the third world. Sorry low end manufacturing is never going to be a high paying middle class job again. If cheap 3rd world labor didn’t kill them automation would.

 

[1982fxr]

I think both the high dollar buyers and the cheap tool buyers base their assertions on opinion.

Here's some objective measurements that are relevant:

1) What is the history of the various companies on providing parts and service for their tools, and for how many years do they maintain those parts and services availability?

2) What is the track history of longevity of the various tool brands when used in a commercial environment? (kind of like the "how many Ford trucks still on the road?"

3) What is the satisfaction rating percentage of verified long term users of the tools? (Both in commercial and homeowner environment)

4) What is the history of innovation and development of the tool manufacturer? What portion of their tools are copies of off-patent tools developed by others?

5) What is the expertise level and level of knowledge of the salespersons presenting and selling the tools? How reliable is their advice on the suitability and applicability of the tools they recommend?

6) What is the warranty and recall rate of the tool manufacturer, or seller, if not directly warrantied by manufacturer?

7) How easy is it to warranty the tool directly by manufacturer, if buyer doesn't have easy access to the original reseller for warranty?

8) What is the wear/breakage rate of the tool, when used for extended periods of time? What is the servicability of the tool, when it becomes worn? Are parts available, if necessary?

9) What after-sale support is provided to users of the tools?

10) What is the quality control program of the manufacturer and reseller? What is the defect rate after QC?

11) What is the variance of performance between individual specimens, and between different lots of identical tool models?

12) What is the average 5 year depreciation percentage, of tools used in a constant, non-abusive environment?

13) What are the repeat results of the destructive testing done on a tool, when that test result is repeated after 10,000, 100,000 and 1,000,000 use cycles on a statistically significant number of samples?

14) What is the brand loyalty record over a lifetime of the user? What percentage of users continue to use the chosen brand over their career?

15) What tool brands do professional users gravitate towards as their careers devleop, and what tool brands do they move away from?

Dude, you seriously just typed all that **** over a troll thread.

 

[jonesg]

LOL!!! Thats fukn classic. You know if harbor freight ran a truck...they would put snapon out of business. God i love that..harbor freight truck

Yep, great idea for new business opportunity, HF. snap Dragon tool truck.
I could use one , up in northern Maine the nearest HF is 70 miles away, I have a list of tools needed on my garage wall.
If the stimulus check arrives before the snow...

 

[VolvoRyan]

For bonus points, another objective test would be to explore why an inexpensive tool that has a destructive test result similar to, or even greater than a more expensive tool, have a greater overall life cycle failure rate? Does it in fact have a higher life cycle failure rate? What is the failure mode in either the lesser or more expensive tool that causes it to have a higher life cycle failure rate? How does the performance of the tool decline over time/use?

All good questions, but the guy's channel has an agenda... as do the people who watch it. He's not going to do any of this stuff.

Disclaimer: I think I've bought more GearWrench ratchets than "snobbish" ones this winter. I don't have a dog in this race, or a red herring in this barrel.

-Ryan

 

[ssdave]

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[WittHay]

I support US merchant mariners , US longshoremen, US customs and immigration officials, US brokers by buying imports. All really good middle class jobs I’m content to leave less then min wage manufacturing jobs and pollution in the third world. Sorry low end manufacturing is never going to be a high paying middle class job again. If cheap 3rd world labor didn’t kill them automation would.

This post couldn't be further from the truth. Everyday when somebody eats , they support US manufacturing. The majority of equipment used on North American farms is made in the US. Same with trucking when somebody orders or buys a cheap Chinese stuff, most likely its brought to you by US made trucks and trailers.

Lot of dock stuff like cranes and forklifts are made over seas in places like Sweden. You all know that the cheapest way to get Chinese stuff to the US is through BC, Canada. Millions and millions are spent on port expansion, so containers can be loaded onto Canadian trains and shipped to the US midwest. Eliminates expensive dockworkers in Seattle and California

Local government is developing a couple thousands acres of industrial land. Building like you wouldnt believe on that land. Sure helps the local economy

 

[WittHay]

This thread is about why people dont like Snap-on.

Is it about US made stuff. like no tools should be made in the US but cars are ok.

Too expensive, I think every body can relate to that

Dont like to buy from a small businesses. Like everything should be controlled by a few people and all the rest involved in the supply chain are minimum wage workers,

Maybe the OP can give reasons why he doesn't like tool trucks

 

[VolvoRyan]

I know. But, there are reasons to buy more durable, better supported, more ecologically friendly, better working things instead of the cheapest throw-away item you can get. The shills and marketers that are pushing this stuff are taking advantage of the general greed factor of most consumers, that want to get the item for the lowest possible price, and don't really consider the whole package and the value added, and the effects on innovation, economy of their home country, and other factors other than lowest price.

I like buying American when I can afford it. Stuff from MAC, Matco, SK, and Snap-On have shown up at my house this winter.

I also have no HF within an 50-100 miles. Warranty through the above companies is nice.

Finally, I've got tools that were handed down to me from a mentor who flat-rated at a dealership for 30 years. Some of those tools are still nicer than a brand new import tool. Snap-On combo wrenches in particular are phenomenal. They can be date coded to the mid 1980's. You do get what you pay for in many cases.

-Ryan

 

[FuzzyTiger]

I don't know why people feel the need to attack/defend their purchase of Snap-On or other expensive tools. They're targeted and priced for professionals or people that will be spending a lot of time working with the tools. The tools feeling nicer or just making you feel better is a perfectly valid reason as far as I'm concerned. If you're going to spend hundreds to thousands of hours using a thing, that little intangible value of "it just feels nice" adds up to a lot over the tool's life time.

I think when it comes to tools there is a bit of an obsession with practicality. No one wants to argue that a tool should be anything but purely practical. But why not? For a casual user, your primary concern is that the tool gets the job done and lets you get on with your day. But for the professional or heavier user - the problem the tool is solving isn't really -their- problem. Its the 1,000th time they're doing that same job, the actual work is essentially meaningless to them by that point. For them I think its just as important that the tool gives them a good experience.

Would you spend $1000 on a winter jacket if you live in Florida and just need one for a couple days while you're vacationing in the Rockies? That would be a waste of money. But for someone living in Northern Canada and working outdoors? 100% worth it even if you could technically 'survive' the winter season with a cheaper jacket.

Now on the other hand, I'm totally on board for making fun of people who have fewer hours than dollars in their ratchet going on a SnapOn shopping spree.

 

[pizza]

could the guy in the video (chris/ClientGraphics) be any more of a HF shill? hm

 

[JR 42]

I think any time you find yourself looking at a simple, widely discussed, known issue and think one side is all opinions but the other is FACTS, you should probably take a deep breath and think about how exactly you got there... doubly so if youtube is your source material.

Lots of folks like fancy wellmade expensive tools. Cheaper tools also work fine. Even some dirt cheap crappy tools work fine too for some things There's no shortage of posts here from folks with a lot of hands- on experience saying pretty much that. Some needed better tools for their uses, some didn't. Some went from expensive to cheap, some went the other way, some have both. It's not a zero- sum game, and there isn't one right answer.

Some great discussion happened in this troll thread, though, so at least there's that.

 

[kb1982]

I think any time you find yourself looking at a simple, widely discussed, known issue and think one side is all opinions but the other is FACTS, you should probably take a deep breath and think about how exactly you got there... doubly so if youtube is your source material.

Lots of folks like fancy wellmade expensive tools. Cheaper tools also work fine. Even some dirt cheap crappy tools work fine too for some things There's no shortage of posts here from folks with a lot of hands- on experience saying pretty much that. Some needed better tools for their uses, some didn't. Some went from expensive to cheap, some went the other way, some have both. It's not a zero- sum game, and there isn't one right answer.

Some great discussion happened in this troll thread, though, so at least there's that.

Very well said. I have been using a Gearwrench 120XP half inch drive flexhead at work for the last year. It has never failed to do anything that the equivalent Snap On at home in the garage does, besides the fact that if I leave the Snap On laying around in the garage, it stays put. Big difference in taking a 40 dollar loss than a 200 dollar loss.

 

[VolvoRyan]

Very well said. I have been using a Gearwrench 120XP half inch drive flexhead at work for the last year. It has never failed to do anything that the equivalent Snap On at home in the garage does, besides the fact that if I leave the Snap On laying around in the garage, it stays put. Big difference in taking a 40 dollar loss than a 200 dollar loss.

Nice to find someone else on this forum who likes the 120XP!

I got the whole flex head set and they're great ratchets.

-Ryan

 

[richfinn]

"Justification" thread

"Look at me I do DIY and I got the cheapest one, you experienced suckers know nothing"

I hope it breaks and skins your knuckles or whacks you in the nuts!!!!

Those are the youtube vijeos I wanna watch!!!

 

[Avenging Bankroll]

nothing

 

[qqzj]

Universal sockets test

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[lardy1]

"Justification" thread

"Look at me I do DIY and I got the cheapest one, you experienced suckers know nothing"

I hope it breaks and skins your knuckles or whacks you in the nuts!!!!

Those are the youtube vijeos I wanna watch!!!

That's some funny **** there. I don't shop at Harbor Freight and I don't watch YouTube tool destruction videos. But there are crumbs of entertaining comments interspersed with the mountain of redundant bait & hate threads.

 

[richfinn]

That's some funny **** there. I don't shop at Harbor Freight and I don't watch YouTube tool destruction videos. But there are crumbs of entertaining comments interspersed with the mountain of redundant bait & hate threads.

No offence to the Harbour Freight guys, we get that not everyone wants to spend $100000 on a tool kit, but constanly telling us we are "suckers" gets a bit weary

I spend enough time dodging the bullsh*t comparison videos on YT, that I dont want to hear about it anymore!!

AvE is excused, I watch those ones

 

[EMD710]

my brother was a heavy equipment mechanic for years until his passing. He left me a huge box of Snap-on, MAC, Proto, Matco, Cornwell, Craftsman, Lisle, NAPA, Harbor Freight, Wisdom, Truecraft, "chrome vanadium", and a host of others.

He used to say each and every brand had something that worked better than the other brands, and to buy the best fit for your needs regardless of the name on it. Most of his tools are Snap-on but that is because he used to get good deals from his dealer.

 

[Lassen Forge]

I think I'm in trouble - Should I get rid of my Craftsman toolboxes, my Knipex pliers, my King **** whitworth, my Snap-on line wrenches and sockets, my Beta T wrenches, My Carlyle screwdrivers, my MAC feeler gauges, my Fluke 88, hell, all my OTC and Lisle tools, just to make everyone happy?

Because that's what's more important - NOT that I have tools I know work, but that I can be a rockstar tool polisher. Drives me nuts people come on here and troll the "My store brand is better than your store brand" crapola... because I know MY store brand beat up your store brand and took it's lunch money.

my brother ... used to say each and every brand had something that worked better than the other brands, and to buy the best fit for your needs regardless of the name on it. Most of his tools are Snap-on but that is because he used to get good deals from his dealer.

Most of how I got my stuff wasn't whether it came off a certain tool truck or whether I paid €200 for a line wrench or got a deal at Discount Tools (the old school version of HF) or Sears had a sale on Craftsman ... it's because someone recommended it, and because it WORKED. If it was Craftsman? Fine. If it was Snap-on? Fine. If it was Stahlwille or Lisle? Fine. As long as it kept me working and turning a wrench.

 

[Rinspeed]

No offence to the Harbour Freight guys, we get that not everyone wants to spend $100000 on a tool kit, but constanly telling us we are "suckers" gets a bit weary

I spend enough time dodging the bullsh*t comparison videos on YT, that I dont want to hear about it anymore!!

AvE is excused, I watch those ones

Good post, couple other points I would like to make is there also pride of ownership. Another thing we don't like to talk about is resale value. I'm not going to be alive forever and I look at my tools as an investment. Someday they might just help one of my kids get through some tough times, you never know.

 

[Avenging Bankroll]

nothing

 

[qqzj]

Quarter inch flex head ratchets comparison.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Most of how I got my stuff wasn't whether it came off a certain tool truck or whether I paid €200 for a line wrench or got a deal at Discount Tools (the old school version of HF) or Sears had a sale on Craftsman ... it's because someone recommended it, and because it WORKED. If it was Craftsman? Fine. If it was Snap-on? Fine. If it was Stahlwille or Lisle? Fine. As long as it kept me working and turning a wrench.

Yep, whatever works and makes me money. The box has lots of brands in it, and no one brand does everything best. I dont care what it says on the tool, I need it to work.

There's also a huge difference making your living fixing things against the clock. Tool expectations and requirements change drastically.

 

[jonshonda]

For some reason there's a HF vs tool truck brand thing that rages all over the internet. Clearly, here too. I don't understand it.

-Ryan

If by "some reason" you mean "because HF constantly compares their tools to Snap On", then i guess thats a good reason that those two are debated heavily.

I think my favorite thing about snap on arguments is that snap on has a much different point of sales and warranty strategy that is completely ignored, which typically leads to an apples and oranges argument. Not a snap on fan boy, but rather an educated observer.

 

[qqzj]

This is quite fun as well.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[Cgw1984]

Lets just agree rabid fans of (to the point of being detractors of) the other side ****.

 

[qqzj]

Add one more mystery buster here.

The specific discussion is here

Best dikes competition

This is a really interesting comparison. Among the winners, two are USA made (Klein & Channel lock), two are Chinese made (Irwin and Southwire), one is made in Germany, Knipex. The biggest loser is Snap on. It's almost a pattern now that SO is always the best according to folklore. But in an...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[M6erfan]

Add one more mystery buster here.

The specific discussion is here

Best dikes competition

This is a really interesting comparison. Among the winners, two are USA made (Klein & Channel lock), two are Chinese made (Irwin and Southwire), one is made in Germany, Knipex. The biggest loser is Snap on. It's almost a pattern now that SO is always the best according to folklore. But in an...

www.garagejournal.com

You bumped an old thread to point to a current ongoing thread?

I guess Trolls gotta eat. . .

 

[qqzj]

Don't be bothered too much. I shall keep collecting evidence. It takes time and effort to remove false opinions from people's mind. I fully anticipated that.

 

[Ralf11]

you're ******* up a rope if you think you will ever change anyone's perception on tools here

Mine were changed. I used to worship at the Church of SnapOn (monotheism) and that was Before the Coming of the Dual-80.

But I am now a polytheist, favoring Ko-ken usually. I have come to appreciate the demi-gods Matco, Hazet, and Nepros. I even bought a Mac extension with a handle on it but must admit it was cuz I couldn't find a SnapOn one.

 

[shawhite]

Don't be bothered too much. I shall keep collecting evidence. It takes time and effort to remove false opinions from people's mind. I fully anticipated that.

I don’t understand why you care what tool another person spends their money on. Using the dike comparison video is a horrible way to prove whatever point you are looking to prove. Basically he destroyed a bunch off dikes to prove they will all be unusable if you cut objects they are not designed to cut. Not to mention he didn’t use the Klein 2000 series which is their HD diagonal cutter. Out of all the cutters tested the Mac and snap-on can be warrantied so how exactly did they lose?