Fireball Tool Hardtail Vise - The Best Vise On The Market???

[Terra Nova]

I understand, but the cost of all the expensive machining on the Orange vise defends its price. On the Fireball you have some huge castings but relatively little machining. I just don't see $1500 worth of castings (presumably imported since that's where they ALL come from lately) and a few passes in a mill. A typical machine like a bandsaw or jointer weighs 250 lbs but they cost half that.

It says made in the USA. Still lots of casting being done here in the US. Among others, we use Waupaca Foundries for a lot of automotive castings.

Have to think about economy of scale on this one too. He's not going to sell a million of these things a year. Casting tooling is not cheap and doesn't last forever. Piece price has to increase to cover the tooling costs. I'll venture a guess that the casting is a significant portion of the cost.

 

[dr_clyde]

I understand, but the cost of all the expensive machining on the Orange vise defends its price. On the Fireball you have some huge castings but relatively little machining. I just don't see $1500 worth of castings (presumably imported since that's where they ALL come from lately) and a few passes in a mill. A typical machine like a bandsaw or jointer weighs 250 lbs but they cost half that.

I would argue the Orange is underpriced for what it is. And the cost of goods isn’t entirely determined by what that cost to make. A large part of the retail cost is the price of the competition, and the price the market will bear. Fountain soda costs less than a nickel yet we happily pay a dollar at the drive through.

Fireball casts their tools in the USA. Foundries aren’t rare, they just aren’t as commonplace as they used to be. There is a foundry right here in Holland and all they do is cast blacksmith anvils and swage blocks, a very limited market. But they do so profitably and make an excellent product.

There is more going on with that vise than a few castings run through the mill. Engineering, design, marketing, patterns, hardware, paint and finish, the list goes on.

Not to mention, they are heavy, hard to handle and ship, and they are going to sell relatively few (thousands, not millions) to recoup the cost of producing them and actually make a buck.

 

[slowtwitch73]

There's guys blowing north of 500 bucks on older, smaller used vises with no manufacturer support. Many of them are beat to death and given an ebay hero paint job. Makes the Fireball look like a bargain.

 

[Ign]

I don't get resistance, either. I run a SMALL machine shop of my own but I've purchased way more expensive stuff when the work/purchase orders justified it.

Many times the profit on the first order pays for the tool, so it's essentially a wash. Every order after that is gravy. $1500 just ain't much in business spending, even for a small shop.

If you don't want this vise, don't buy one.

 

[General Geoff]

I understand, but the cost of all the expensive machining on the Orange vise defends its price. On the Fireball you have some huge castings but relatively little machining. I just don't see $1500 worth of castings (presumably imported since that's where they ALL come from lately) and a few passes in a mill. A typical machine like a bandsaw or jointer weighs 250 lbs but they cost half that.

There is foundry that does ductile iron castings right in Spokane, Washington. https://www.travispattern.com/Cast_Iron.php

 

[scooby074]

I dont know if people are seeing the price before they see the dimensions of this thing or what. Watch the video. Its huge. Price wise, its right there with the Wilton 600 Machinist. Remember that shipping is included so there's $100 easy.

Where I last worked maintenance we got a Wilton 8" Machinist. It wasnt easy. Many cheap china vises were bought before management caved. While we mechanics get the value of a good vise, management doesnt. They understand the value of the company helicopter and jets though

 

[tarbellb]

The dynamic jaw ONLY

125lbs

 

[M635_Guy]

I love that guy - he's making this vise for a very specific set of customers that doesn't include me, but I applaud what he's doing 100%. For what it is and in the environments it will be best-utilized, it seems like a good value. I wonder what the post-pre-order price will be...

 

[dr_clyde]

Decided to buy one. I want to support guys like Jason and his commitment to USA manufacturing of excellent and innovative products.

Got my pre-order in. Can't wait until it ships lol.

 

[Lucid Moments]

I dont know if people are seeing the price before they see the dimensions of this thing or what. Watch the video. Its huge. Price wise, its right there with the Wilton 600 Machinist. Remember that shipping is included so there's $100 easy.

Where I last worked maintenance we got a Wilton 8" Machinist. It wasnt easy. Many cheap china vises were bought before management caved. While we mechanics get the value of a good vise, management doesnt. They understand the value of the company helicopter and jets though

I have no doubt that it is an absolutely bad *** vise, and that in the right environment it would be absolutely worth every penny he is charging for it. My issue is that I wouldn't use it. I am an amateur mechanic. I have no use for a vise of this size or capability. I don't use the cheap chinese hunk of iron that I have to it's capacity. So for me it would be a ridiculous price to pay.

 

[jhelrey]

I abuse vises... Hit it with a grinder, sawzall blade, hammer, torching parts red hit, etc. and I'd start crying... but that's what I use them for.

 

[M635_Guy]

I abuse vises... Hit it with a grinder, sawzall blade, hammer, torching parts red hit, etc. and I'd start crying... but that's what I use them for.

I have to think this vise would mainly shrug at most of that

 

[jhelrey]

I have to think this vise would mainly shrug at most of that

It's the fact of how much I paid for it!!!

 

[matt_i]

I would be concerned about the ball & needle thrust bearings.

I use vises to fixture for welding and while I try to clamp the ground lead/ground clamp to the jaw it doesn't always happen. In addition I've cold-bent a lot of pieces with a 3# hammer.

While the same activity(ies) can nuke a bronze plain bearing setup its about 25x as likely with rolling elements in my experience with general machinery.

While I'm being critical, I also like the "fat meatball" on the Reed's pressure screw, the large undercut/skinny neck on the FireBall, to make the ball, looks proportionally weak to my eye.

 

[Maui]

Got my pre-order in. Can't wait until it ships lol.

Thanks for posting this OP. I am seriously considering pre-ordering one of these vises too.

 

[M635_Guy]

I would be concerned about the ball & needle thrust bearings.

I use vises to fixture for welding and while I try to clamp the ground lead/ground clamp to the jaw it doesn't always happen. In addition I've cold-bent a lot of pieces with a 3# hammer.

While the same activity(ies) can nuke a bronze plain bearing setup its about 25x as likely with rolling elements in my experience with general machinery.

While I'm being critical, I also like the "fat meatball" on the Reed's pressure screw, the large undercut/skinny neck on the FireBall, to make the ball, looks proportionally weak to my eye.

If you've seen this guy, I think you'd probably have the opinion that he's thought the thing through. I'd also say he'd love to see someone show him (not tell him) where there are opportunities to improve and wouldn't leave you hanging.

 

[Craftfab]

Jason posted a nice video on his IG page today talking a little about the development of the vise and showing one of his prototypes he tested to breaking point so he knew what to upgrade.

 

[kenc184]

Great looking vise, and a fair price for it's size, mass etc.

Perfect for a business, but for the average guy, what's the point when you can pick up old iron for a fraction of the price? I don't need
to put a breaker bar on the vise handle and crank it till it breaks. I don't need more than a Reed 2C and Wilton C3, they're man enough for any diy-er purposes, and together cost me less than half the price of that vise, beautiful though it is.

 

[MushCreek]

I think it's a deal at that price, if you need a vise that massive. Even at work, I've never needed a vise that big. It's not a homeowner vise, that's for sure. Some day, you'll see one of those bolted to the rear bumper of a county truck. I wish he made smaller sizes, but they would be proportionally more expensive. Labor is the big expense these days, and it takes the same number of steps to make a tiny vise as it does to make a huge one.

 

[2oolhound]

And it looks like it has snap grooves so the handle breaks off before it bends. But probably not.....

I'm thinking those are likely spring loaded ball detents so the handle sticks in mid position which is handy when trying to speed wind the dynamic jaw with one hand whilst holding your work in clamping position with the other. Often if the vise is swiveled 90º to the bench the long handle will hit the bench so having it stuck 1/2 way is great until you're at the locking down point.

I really love how tight my Reed vise is but having those ways up front is an awesome feature.

This vise seems to incorporate many features I've seen members here customize on their own old vises. Wouldn't it be nice if these vises were made back 50 years or so ago and we could be finding them on the used market today for peanuts.

 

[General Geoff]

I think it's a deal at that price, if you need a vise that massive. Even at work, I've never needed a vise that big. It's not a homeowner vise, that's for sure.

The way I see it, there are far sillier and less useful ways to blow $1500. Even if it is a frivolous purchase for 99% of homeowners, it is no more-so than a $1500 watch, a $1500 pair of shoes, or a $1500 wall painting/sculpture/vase/<insert art here>. And to a lot of folks on this forum, it very much is a functional work of art

 

[MushCreek]

Dare I say it- It's TOO big. I don't have room for it, otherwise I'd be considering it just because. Yes, I'd rather spend $1500 on a vise as opposed to a watch, shoes, or artwork.

 

[General Geoff]

Dare I say it- It's TOO big. I don't have room for it, otherwise I'd be considering it just because. Yes, I'd rather spend $1500 on a vise as opposed to a watch, shoes, or artwork.

Completely understandable. I like it so much that I will make room for it in my workshop haha

 

[JWILLIE1977]

Does it only come in red?

 

[RTM]

.

Now I just have to do some workbench reinforcing to accept this behemoth!

I think I’d need to beef up my floor to support that, I only have a 6” slab.

 

[mike93lx]

Does it only come in red?

Any color you want.

As long as you want red

 

[pelletman]

I think $1500 is cheap. Lots of work in that product

 

[magicrat]

I love fireball tools. I already have a Yost that is 160 pounds and a beast. Honestly I’d love for him to make advice between 80 and 100 pounds. I would definitely buy it. That vise looks beautiful but it’s for someone who is going to put it in one place and never move it. Too cumbersome for a vagabond lol

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

The price is going up after the initial presale batch. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up fairly significantly. $1500 seems like peanuts to me for something with that much R&D and US manufacturing time invested. I've seen people pay more than that for old, beat up 8" vises. They are huge and cool, but they all have years of abuse, and all have design issues that this one addresses.

 

[Terra Nova]

The price is going up after the initial presale batch. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up fairly significantly. $1500 seems like peanuts to me for something with that much R&D and US manufacturing time invested. I've seen people pay more than that for old, beat up 8" vises. They are huge and cool, but they all have years of abuse, and all have design issues that this one addresses.

Stop, just stop... Y'all are really pushing me over the edge to preorder this thing

 

[bwringer]

I love that guy - he's making this vise for a very specific set of customers that doesn't include me, but I applaud what he's doing 100%. For what it is and in the environments it will be best-utilized, it seems like a good value. I wonder what the post-pre-order price will be...

Same. This particular vise does not fit my personal needs (or lack of budget), but Fireball is making some amazing stuff in the US of damn A, and proving there is a ready market for quality, innovation, and great design.

Shipping these beasts is going to be difficult and expensive, but I presume they're used to making the arrangements...

Wonder if they're ever planning to make a swivel vise?

 

[mike93lx]

Wonder if they're ever planning to make a swivel vise?

This is a swivel vise

 

[M635_Guy]

Same. This particular vise does not fit my personal needs (or lack of budget), but Fireball is making some amazing stuff in the US of damn A, and proving there is a ready market for quality, innovation, and great design.

Shipping these beasts is going to be difficult and expensive, but I presume they're used to making the arrangements...

Wonder if they're ever planning to make a swivel vise?

It would be cool if they do something a bit more mainstream - smaller, lower price and with a swivel. When he did his vise tests a while back, the swivel was very often the weak point, so I'd guess he either won't do it or will he has come up with something to address it that most companies wouldn't do because of cost. (which, of course, will be something he'd need to stand out as they field gets crowded in a hurry...)

That (imaginary) smaller vise is still probably...$800? I'd still have to admire that from afar. My Yost 750 Di is probably more vise than I need, but I dig it, and it maxed out my budget at $275 at the time...

 

[M635_Guy]

This is a swivel vise

Well **** - it is. Not sure how I missed that. I'm looking forward to seeing the design there.

 

[mike93lx]

Well **** - it is. Not sure how I missed that. I'm looking forward to seeing the design there.

If you look at his website, there are x-ray views of the vise

 

[M635_Guy]

If you look at his website, there are x-ray views of the vise

I saw it, but it's not really giving much in the way of the design. I have to thing seeing all the failures in the swivel led him to something with some thought and beef behind it. I'd love to hear the details

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

I saw it, but it's not really giving much in the way of the design. I have to thing seeing all the failures in the swivel led him to something with some thought and beef behind it. I'd love to hear the details

He goes over it in one of the videos. The swivel is basically the same design as a large Reed. Seems to be a good design, as you don't see a whole lot of Reeds with broken swivel bases.

That said, if you're doing enough beating on a vise to break the swivel, you probably should switch to a non-swivel vise anyway.

 

[MushCreek]

Shipping these beasts is going to be difficult and expensive, but I presume they're used to making the arrangements...

According to the website, there is free shipping on the introductory offer. It's only $100 deposit, refundable if you change your mind before they ship next year. Holy **** I'm tempted....

 

[slowtwitch73]

Could probably flip one and make some cash. But who want's to get a hernia trying.

 

[M635_Guy]

Could probably flip one and make some cash. But who want's to get a hernia trying.

Unless you're flipping it locally, shipping would probably crush that opportunity...