The VISES of Garage Journal

[Duke74]

Hey all. I just got this 3 1/2inch vise for $35 Canadian. It is a vintage Craftsman but it is the first one I have seen like this that is made in England. It might be made by Record but any input is welcome. Thanks.

 

[dannyr]

Hey all. I just got this 3 1/2inch vise for $35 Canadian. It is a vintage Craftsman but it is the first one I have seen like this that is made in England. It might be made by Record but any input is welcome. Thanks.

Interesting - not very like any English vise I know.

Doesn't have any typical Record shape/features and Record had their own sales in Canada - looks more like a US/Canada design - I'd guess just sub-contracted to a smaller English (probably Sheffield) vise making foundry/machine shop (plenty of those 1930-70s).

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Hey all. I just got this 3 1/2inch vise for $35 Canadian. It is a vintage Craftsman but it is the first one I have seen like this that is made in England. It might be made by Record but any input is welcome. Thanks.

I have that same vise. I am certain I've seen other posts on here that show it was made by Wilton. Edit: sorry I didn't look at the pictures close enough to see the made in England. I wish we could delete posts lol.

 

[Shiftless]

I have that same vise. I am certain I've seen other posts on here that show it was made by Wilton. Edit: sorry I didn't look at the pictures close enough to see the made in England. I wish we could delete posts lol.

You can “almost” delete a post you’d like to get rid of. Using the edit function, remove all the words and pictures if any and replace with a couple of period dots or as some guys do, type in “(deleted)”

 

[Jayman17]

I am currently restoring that exact vise but mine is not stamped “made in England”.
We’re those made in the US too by another manufacturer?

Jay

 

[Shiftless]

I am currently restoring that exact vise but mine is not stamped “made in England”.
We’re those made in the US too by another manufacturer?

Jay

If I recall correctly, Record went out of business in England in the early 2000s and Irwin bought the name. Needless to say, they moved production to Asia.

 

[neophyte]

Record and Paramo were the two major vise/vice manufacturers in England when I presume that might have been made(ie. 1950s-2000).
Both manufacturers seemed to be trying to get US sales from probably the 1970s till 2000, since they were selling quality tools at wholesale prices that could undercut US manufacturers like Morgan.(I forget where I read this)
Maybe someone else could have manufactured that vise, but both Record and Paramo probably would have if given the chance.

 

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by Shiftless.
You can “almost” delete a post you’d like to get rid of. Using the edit function, remove all the words and pictures if any and replace with a couple of period dots or as some guys do, type in “(deleted)”


Thanks Shift.---I had 2 posts that were late postings, where as, (someone else beat me to the reply), and I wanted to delete them but was not able.---I kind of thought deleting was an extreme form of editing.---I was wrong.

 

[Dlavallee22]

Cleaned up this awesome Reed 403 1/2R with replaceable jaws. It is date stamped 12/77 and was able to salvage most of the original paint. I also just painted the 2 rows of lettering in silver as they did from the factory. This vise looked like a smurf!

 

[genog]

I love how you saved the old paint

 

[Dlavallee22]

I love how you saved the old paint

Thanks, it took some serious patience, time, and soft touch with a wire wheel in a drill! Was psyched to see so much of the original paint intact

 

[carlito]

Added a Reed 106 to the collection. 150 pounds, working original unrestored condition.

 

[carlito]

Added a Reed 106 to the collection. 150 pounds, working original unrestored condition.

Still on the hunt for a smaller 104 ish size with the swivel base.

 

[Mark Stansbury]

Picture from my local FB Marketplace of an Armstrong Brother Tool Co. machinist vise. Size not given other than weight 34 pounds.

 

[neophyte]

Picture from my local FB Marketplace of an Armstrong Brother Tool Co. machinist vise. Size not given other than weight 34 pounds.

I presume this would have been made by someone else and rebranded, since Armstrong Brothers as far as I’m aware weren’t operating a foundry.
There was another Armstrong company that made hoses, but completely unrelated to this Armstrong.

 

[Dlavallee22]

Picture from my local FB Marketplace of an Armstrong Brother Tool Co. machinist vise. Size not given other than weight 34 pounds.

that definitely looks like it is made by Columbian to me. I’d guess it’s a 3 1/2” (maybe 4”) wide jaw rebadged Columbian 603 1/2

 

[LesserSon]

Mine has a patent number on it

I can’t fully read it from the photo. I could read “Pat No…XXXX” but I think it may be “Pat Nov…XXXX” which would be the patent date. Either way, that’s a more reliable dating method than any catalog illustration.

 

[1NRO]

So I posted a couple of pages back how my purchasing of vices had relapsed, it seems getting back on the wagon isn’t easy as this leg vice climbed into the van the other day! Not my kind of vice usually but this is heavy in the extreme (it took two of us to move it) and I couldn’t leave it lying in the dirt. 6” jaws which is small considering the scale of everything else, they’re a bit funky and someone has been striking their arc on them but other than that it’s working well and just needs me to sort a mount for it.

 

[Mark Stansbury]

I presume this would have been made by someone else and rebranded, since Armstrong Brothers as far as I’m aware weren’t operating a foundry.
There was another Armstrong company that made hoses, but completely unrelated to this Armstrong.

Agree about the likely rebadging, party because I haven't seen any ads for this vise. They had a full line of pipe vises with malleable frames, though. Catalog C-39

 

[Zelo]

Thanks for all the info guys.

 

[Duke74]

I can’t fully read it from the photo. I could read “Pat No…XXXX” but I think it may be “Pat Nov…XXXX” which would be the patent date. Either way, that’s a more reliable dating method than any catalog illustration.

Thanks for the input. I will have to take a better look. It is hard to read. Maybe a wire brush will clean it up enough to be able to see it clearly.

 

[454ragtop]

Posted some pics of a real Armstrong here a couple years ago https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-vises-of-garage-journal.44782/post-8137458
Scroll down to see more pics and catalog info.

 

[neophyte]

The Armstrong Manufacturing Co. that made the pipe vises was based in Bridgeport, Connecticut, and was a completely different company to the Armstrong Brothers Tool Company, which was based in Chicago.

 

[Shiftless]

If anybody is still wondering whether or not hot simple green is a an effective paint remover look at these before and after pictures I took during the rehab of my American Scale Red Seal 53N
After soaking in my crock pot for a few hours, I took the part out and hit it with my little electric pressure washer. For smaller parts I rinse off under running water with a brass brush.

As a bonus, all of the old dirt and grease in and around the vise nut is also removed.


.

 

[honza.vosalik]

This is my second 206R. I sold the first one quite a while ago and always regretted it....so I picked this one up today

 

[Mark Stansbury]

The Armstrong Manufacturing Co. that made the pipe vises was based in Bridgeport, Connecticut, and was a completely different company to the Armstrong Brothers Tool Company, which was based in Chicago.

Armstrong Brothers Tool Co. made a full line of pipe vises. These are some of them.

 

[va.grouseman]

This is my second 206R. I sold the first one quite a while ago and always regretted it....so I picked this one up today

Boy Honza, that 206R is a real jewel.---Very low mileage.---Now let's not have any more sellers remorse unless you are offered a retirement package.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Posted some pics of a real Armstrong here a couple years ago https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-vises-of-garage-journal.44782/post-8137458
Scroll down to see more pics and catalog info.

Different company. The one posted above is Armstrong Bros. of Chicago, not Armstrong Manufacturing of Bridgeport, CT.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I love how you saved the old paint

Absolutely beautiful @Delavallee22. To each his own and all that, but that is a perfect example of when to save instead of strip.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Armstrong Brothers Tool Co. made a full line of pipe vises.

They made a really cool Quick Action Drill Vise, too.



In almost 15 years of serious picking now, I can count on one hand the instances of leaving something behind that I still psychically kick my own **** about in regret, and an Armstrong Quick Action Drill Vise is very prominently one of them.

So named, because of how it operates. The entire dynamic jaw block slides freely back and forth by hand in that slot, and when you turn that knurled handle, it actuates the screw inside that threaded collar, nudging the clamp up tighter on the work. I'm not an eedjit, but I was that day!



As you can see in this shot, it had all kinds of overdrill scourges in it, but it was stupid to not grab it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

^ Having said all that, the technical means for how they made the drill vise and the pipe vises, not to mention the plethora of tools, tool holders, lathe dogs, C-clamps, machinist clamps, planer jacks, threading sets, etc that they manufactured and sold, might be what neophyte was referring to when he said he wasn't aware of them having their own foundry, assuming he is aware they made a crapload of tools second, maybe, only to Williams and Billings and Spencer at one point. The difference between casting and forging, cast iron and wrought iron, and molding and drop forging. Is it possible to make the pipe vises and and the drill vise without a foundry? Would a full-up bench/machinists' vis require a different method? I don't know. I have to admit, I have never seen an Armstrong Bros bench vise before and that one you posted, at least, does look to be badged.

 

[ed4banger]

Here is a nice and original Samson 5207. Dates around '36 to '38 I believe.

 

[Mark Stansbury]

^ Having said all that, the technical means for how they made the drill vise and the pipe vises, not to mention the plethora of tools, tool holders, lathe dogs, C-clamps, machinist clamps, planer jacks, threading sets, etc that they manufactured and sold, might be what neophyte was referring to when he said he wasn't aware of them having their own foundry, assuming he is aware they made a crapload of tools second, maybe, only to Williams and Billings and Spencer at one point. The difference between casting and forging, cast iron and wrought iron, and molding and drop forging. Is it possible to make the pipe vises and and the drill vise without a foundry? Would a full-up bench/machinists' vis require a different method? I don't know. I have to admit, I have never seen an Armstrong Bros bench vise before and that one you posted, at least, does look to be badged.

Looking at their Chicago classified ads over the decades, they hired drop forgers & helpers, grinders for light forgings, polishers for same, drill press hands, and cadmium platers. None for molders or foundry hands, and nothing came up for any fires, which foundries were prone to. It all points to their outsourcing their foundry work.

Incidentally, I see from a 1989 obit that one of the Armstrong partners, Horace, was co-founder of Armstrong-Bray Co. and Sheldon Machine Co.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

A few of their catalog frontispieces - where they proudly show and caption their massive facilities, bear that out.

 

[Dlavallee22]

It’s taken me 14 months to finally get to but man am I glad with how this turned out. Reed 214S filers vise with replaceable jaws and the awesome oval logo. No original paint to save on this one unfortunately. Date stamped 12/76 and hands down one of my all time favorite vises. I’ll be bolting this one down as my new user very shortly!

 

[Jayman17]

Dlaval, I can’t quite tell if that vise was painted or if that is BLO or black metal oil?
If it is paint what brand/color is it? Sure looks nice! Thanks

Jay

 

[twagler]

Any guesses on what manufacturer/model this vise might be? Only description in listing is "Huge vise, $600". The seller is incommunicative about manufacturer, but did measure jaw width to be 7". Too bad the asking price is so much - it's a little bit too rich for my blood!

 

[Shiftless]

7 inch vises are hard to find and usually go for premium prices. That one looks to me like it’s been welded up in this area. That’s a deal killer for most collectors and for a user, represents a weakness.
View attachment 1535821View attachment 1535821
I don’t recognize the unusually shaped meatball. Maybe somebody here knows and will answer soon,

 

[twagler]

Thanks for your reply, Shiftless - I think you are right about the weld repair. The vise does have some lumpy, peeling paint but that area looks beyond just that.

With no better information to go on, I'm going to venture that the vise is a Rae 207 (see catalog clip below). It looks similar, and in this area (Ontario, Canada) the most common vintage vises are either made in England Records or Rae's which was the largest of the Canadian manufacturers. If I'm correct, then this vise would weigh in at a respectable 230 lbs.


I'm the owner of a much smaller Rae, a 203 (see picture below). These are very nicely built vises. Mine features the heaviest swivel base locking levers that I've ever seen - actually thicker than the main vise handle. I think that Rae must have stolen the casting molds from Reed, because every line on my 203 is a dead-ringer for the Reed version, even down to the cast-in-place jaws.

 

[Shiftless]

twagler:
Those RAE vises certainly look substantial. I have a lot of different brands in my collection but no RAE’s.
That swivel lock down does look out of scale. Maybe a previous owner added that to replace a broken part.