Forged Steel Products Co. Vacuum Grip Pliers Thread--Pre Snap-on

[Old Radar]

It was pointed out that Forged Steel Products Co. didn't have their own thread and that most members posted the firm's early Vacuum Grip pliers on the Vintage Snap-on Picture Thread. Since I just came into a windfall of their pliers, I thought I would create a place of their own.

Alloy Artifacts has a section for Forged Steel Products Co. that includes a table of "known to them" Forged Steel Products Co. Vacuum Grip models. They freely admit that "...the table is not yet complete, due to a lack of catalog coverage. We still occasionally discover a "new" model and then update the table." It's a great resource and is linked here. The AA site also gives some good history on the company, so I'll avoid duplication by not re-hashing it here.

I found all these Vacuum Grips at a single estate sale last weekend. They are all marked Newport, PA so that dates them to after the factory moved from Newark, NJ sometime in 1922. Only one is stamped with anything resembling a date mark and that being a -0. It is postulated that through their sales agreement with Snap-on in the mid-'20s, many of FSP's Vacuum Grip tools sold by Snap-on dealers were generally marked with SO style date codes. The -0 is thought to be a continuation of the style used at the end of the 1920s and would correspond to 1930.

Based on this and the fact that most of these models first appeared in 1926-27 (except the No. 49 (1920)) I estimate them all to be made in the late 1920s except the No. 17 that has the -0 date stamp for 1930.

Without further ado, here are my FSP Vacuum Grips:


Three No. 17 End Nippers. I think they progress from left to right with the far right being the one that is stamped -0.


No. 49 Slip Joint


No. 86 Diagonal Cutter on bottom and what I believe is a No. 87 Diagonal Cutter on top--this is a best guess as there are no markings whatsoever on the tool.

Continued...

 

[Old Radar]

No. 497 Bent Needle Nose

 

[Old Radar]

These last two are a mystery. If anyone has seen these before or can produce documentation on either of these, please post it


No. 696 Specialty Pliers/Cutter--I cannot find this number in any online catalog and it is not mentioned in the AA table.


Hose Grip Pliers with no markings. Thought it might be a modified No. 597 but it is too long.

Okay, that's what I have, let's see yours!!

 

[four.cycle]

Forged Steel / Forged Steel Products Co., 141 Frelinghuysen Ave., Newark, NJ / "Vacuum Grip" / patent D57252 / http://alloy-artifacts.org/forged-steel-products.html / http://alloy-artifacts.org/forged-steel-products.html#history / http://toolarchives.com/node/141 / https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...vacuum-grip-pliers-thread-pre-snap-on.488472/ /

Unfortunately, this is the only thing I have on "Vacuum Grip":

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Woo-hoo! Good thread, OR. And what a way to start it, with an incredible one-fell-swooping of pliers.

I'm about to conduct an ice cube test on the guard and pommel of my Pancho Villa machete, but briefly, some comments on this part of the title...

Pre Snap-on

....and this...

...the firm's early Vacuum Grip pliers

FSP continued selling Vacuum-Grip pliers in-house, under their own brand, after they started supplying them to Snap-on, for many years, and even after Snap-on "acquired" FSP in 1945, well into the early 50's, I believe. That was part of my point on the Garage Sale thread. It's a company that has been ignobly and misleadingly dwarfed by being discussed exclusively as a supplier and then a division of Snap-on, when in fact, their corporate leadership bailed out and owned Snap-on from 1931 to 1939, and they continued making and selling their own pliers under their own name. So we might see more than just early pre-Snap-on pliers here.

Unfortunately, this is the only thing I have on "Vacuum Grip":

Fortunately, it helps illustrate my point above.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are my dykes previously posted in the Snap-on thread. I found it at the late lamented Tahoe flea in 2019. The rest of my vacuum grip tools are all marked Snap-on.
-Don

 

[Walkers]

One of my first, and favorite tools is my Snap-on Vacuum grip diagonal cutters and needle nose plier. These have been my go to tools for decades.

 

[Old Radar]

Woo-hoo! Good thread, OR. And what a way to start it, with an incredible one-fell-swooping of pliers.

FSP continued selling Vacuum-Grip pliers in-house, under their own brand, after they started supplying them to Snap-on, for many years, and even after Snap-on "acquired" FSP in 1945, well into the early 50's, I believe. That was part of my point on the Garage Sale thread. It's a company that has been ignobly and misleadingly dwarfed by being discussed exclusively as a supplier and then a division of Snap-on, when in fact, their corporate leadership bailed out and owned Snap-on from 1931 to 1939, and they continued making and selling their own pliers under their own name. So we might see more than just early pre-Snap-on pliers here.

Thanks--& Excellent point. The "early" adjective in my opening post may have led to confusion. To clarify, my intent was to have a home for all FSP produced Vacuum Grip products prior to the "merger" with Snap-on in 1945--after which, it was my understanding, the branding on all Vacuum Grip products was changed to Snap-on. I'm sure the change didn't happen instantanously, but surely didn't take five or more years. If my understanding is in error, please correct me.

And congratulations on that outstanding machete!

 

[LesserSon]

Phew! Made it onto the first page.
Slipjoints, with and without cutters. The smallest one is Newport PA; the second from left has no discernable stamps at all, so I don’t know where it was made. The remaining three are Newark NJ. Nos 34 ?? 46 67 49.

L-R:
Indian Motocycle valve cover pliers, two pairs of No27 narrow longnose, one pair No57 linesman, three pairs of dikes (one readable No87). All Newport PA, I think.

 

[LesserSon]

I’d also like to say, I think early Sears Craftsman Vanadium and Dunlap pliers were also made by FSP. I had posted this idea on the Snap-on thread with links to Bill Myers’ 25Oct1921 design patent for the nested diamonds grip pattern gracing the Craftsman pliers. (One hundred years ago, this week!)
Having taken apart a few Dunlaps since then, I think the pivot screw-washer-nut assembly is the same as used on some FSP models.
I don’t mean to hijack the thread for posting Sears pliers, but I think it further distinguishes the accomplishments of FSP from Snap-on.

 

[four.cycle]

those are some seriously great collections, gentlemen.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

those are some seriously great collections, gentlemen.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The remaining three are Newark NJ.

Wow! Never laid eyes on one in the wild yet!

Indian Motocycle valve cover pliers,

Shhhhhweeeeeet.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm actually kind of shocked that between Old Radar and LesserSon (who together own a whopping twenty-one (21) pliers) it's even possible that I can post pliers that are not duplicates, because if there's anything I hate, it's playing duplicate fiddle.

Sadly, I only have two (2) FSP in-house (as opposed to FSP for Snap-on) pliers, but I'm happy that they're two (2) that have not been posted yet!

If you guys or anyone else has any info on dates, I'm all ears, because it's my pleasure to defer.

FSP VG No. 9A Water Pump pliers...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

And FSP VG No. 597 Extra Long Needle Nose with two wire or pin holders (cruciform) in the nose...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's the cruciform pattern inside the jaws that allows them to hold a wire or pin sideways or straight.

 

[Old Radar]

...the second from left has no discernable stamps at all, so I don’t know where it was made. The remaining three are Newark NJ. Nos 34 ?? 46 67 49.

Excellent collection, LS! Yours are the first Newark NJ made examples I've seen. Given that, it may seem rash to suggest this, but I am willing to postulate that Newark produced pliers can be distinguished from Newport produced examples by looking at the "tray" or border around the vacuum grip circles. All Newport posted examples (so far) have only a groove above and below the circles to define the group, with nothing keeping them from the edges while all the Newarks are completely contained within a shallow tray. If this theory holds, I would say your unmarked example is from Newark. Do any of your Newports have a Snap-on style date stamp?

It may also be that as time went on, the number of rows of circles waned from three to two to one--your Indian MC pliers notwithstanding.

 

[Old Radar]

Lugz--Thanks for posting the detail of your No. 597 Extra Long Needle Nose Pin Holding Pliers. I had briefly thought my unmarked pair of "hose grips" might have been a user-modified pair of 597s due to the longitudinal grove they have. If the longer length of mine hadn't already negated that thought, your pics certainly would have.

Again, do either of yours have a date stamp?

 

[LesserSon]

it may seem rash to suggest this, but I am willing to postulate that Newark produced pliers can be distinguished from Newport produced examples by looking at the "tray" or border around the vacuum grip circles. All Newport posted examples (so far) have only a groove above and below the circles to define the group, with nothing keeping them from the edges while all the Newarks are completely contained within a shallow tray. If this theory holds, I would say your unmarked example is from Newark. Do any of your Newports have a Snap-on style date stamp?

It may also be that as time went on, the number of rows of circles waned from three to two to one--your Indian MC pliers notwithstanding.

I don’t think a theory can be rash, but the sample size is small for a conclusion. Let’s hope for more examples.

None of my Newark slipjoints have any stamps inside the handles.

(Sorry about the random order)
The single-row, flush suckers No57 linesmans has a “1” stamp that looks to me like the 1941 S-O code.
The single-row, flush suckers No87 dikes have a tiny “WB” stamp, which may have significance, but surely is not a date.

The three-row, raised suckers 6” dikes (model number eroded) have an “S” stamp. “Second” quality, maybe? The jaws are a bit wonky, and there’s a hole started in the pivot.

The two-row, raised suckers 7-1/4” gull-wing dikes have no stamps at all (nor FSP marks), but they have this raised mark inside both handles, resembling the 1988 S-O date, which it cannot be, from any other aspect of the tool.

The No34 triple-row, raised suckers cutter slipjoints have a “-7” stamp, suggesting 1927 to me. I suppose it also resembles the 1957 S-O date, but S-O did not have a hyphen prefix past 1930.

The earliness of the hyphenated stamps on FSP examples suggests to me the further possibility that it was FSP’s practice adopted by S-O, rather than the other way round, so “-1” might be 1921, rather than 1931, which in S-O code would be “*”. Heresy? Well, maybe.
I think you are on firm ground about the number of rows of circles diminishing over time. I’d add that the resemblance to cephalopod suckers also diminished - the later ones are more ornamental than functional. There was a brief discussion on the difference between design patents and utility patents on the S-O thread, inspired by the FSP circles. Maybe I’ll try that again here.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

your Indian MC pliers notwithstanding.

About those. Are the "suckers" worn down or never had any? If the latter, isn't it odd they bear the Vacuum-Grip logo? I confess, I have never looked at a single FSP catalog, so maybe that's not unusual. Seems to defeat the point of the brand, though.

I am willing to postulate that Newark produced pliers can be distinguished from Newport produced examples by looking at the "tray" or border around the vacuum grip circles.

Neat observation!

Again, do either of yours have a date stamp?

They do not. And as I said, I'd be open to suggestions on dating them. That's something a thread like this should definitely delve into. IIRC, Frank Murch on collectingsnapon.com tried using the number of "sucker" rows to date the pliers they made for SO. It seemed like less than a 100% solid and consistent theory, as I recall, to begin with, so how or even if it applies to in-house production may be even more shaky.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@Old Radar

I have a suggestion. Would you use post #1 to post links to free and open source FSP catalog resources, wherever they may be hosted, by catalog number and date? That way we're all using the same info. I plan to search IA and ITCL when I set aside some time for it, but results often vary based on search terms.

 

[LesserSon]

My Indian MC pliers are smooth-handled, and look to have always been that way. The pair on the AA site has single-row, flush (polished surface with sunken crater) suckers.
My pair has been modified, by having the jaws ground narrower.

 

[LesserSon]

Why smooth handles on any pliers? If a grip pattern aids grip, why doesn’t every pliers ever made have them? I wondered this while studying Utica pliers, which appear to have been alternately (or even simultaneously) available with or without a depressed diamonds grip pattern. Kraeuter, Danielson, Crescent, etc - many, if not most manufacturers with distinctive grips also sold smooth handled variants.
So, customer preference? Sometimes you want to slide your hand to a different position without taking pressure off the held object - easier to accomplish with smooth handles.
(My best guess why some VacuumGrips might not have vacuum grips.)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I agree with all that, LS. But my question wasn't, 'Why are some FSP-made Vacuum Grip-branded pliers smooth?' It was, 'Why would FSP-made smooth-handled pliers be branded Vacuum Grip?' There is a difference. Plomb sold an array of pliers. Only those with the "PLVMB" name forged into the handle as a grip wer called "Name-Nurl." The Vacuum Grip branding literally refers to the suction cups. So it just strikes me as counter-intuitive. That FSP made them is not surprising. But why not brand them something else? Or nothing at all? I guess the name simply became synonymous with all their pliers, suction cups or not. Then again, this is just the kind of innocuous thing that bothers me. It's not that important.

 

[Old Radar]

I boldfaced two words in my quote of your post I think need correcting for posterity.
I think you are on firm ground about the number of rows of circles diminishing over time. I’d add that the resemblance to cephalopod suckers also diminished - the later ones are more ornamental than functional. There was a brief discussion on the difference between design patents and utility patents on the S-O thread, inspired by the FSP circles. Maybe I’ll try that again here.

LS--I agree with you on the ornamental aspect increasing--or the functionality decreasing--over time. I am, however, unsure what needs to be corrected about the two words you boldfaced.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am, however, unsure what needs to be corrected about the two words you boldfaced.

I was also confused, and then remembered being confused by someone pointing out obviously inadvertent flubs and typos to me in this way before, (perhaps it was also LS! ), until I went back and read your original post.

 

[LesserSon]

grove>groove
Newport>Newark

I don’t usually mind obvious typos (I certainly make plenty myself), but especially the two similar placenames are confusing enough that switching them makes your point unnecessarily difficult to follow.

 

[Old Radar]

Well, there's my problem! I kept reading and re-reading the quoted text in LS's post--not realizing he had made the corrections within my text. I finally took Lugz up on his advice and re-read my original post--and made the corrections.

Thanks for the help, guys! Now everything should be grovy.

 

[LesserSon]

Hose Grip Pliers with no markings. Thought it might be a modified No. 597

Film Star Alert:
I saw a pair of these on S2E1 of Locke & Key. Villain used them to grip a bullet while melting it.

 

[LesserSon]

Picked up a pair of No70-A expanders today. One-row flush craters grip, so pretty late.
Question: do you think the jaws have been reground, or do they seem original?

I mean the tips, specifically.

 

[Old Radar]

I can't see through the glare on the tip you have circled, but the other tip appears (at least in the photo) to have the same texture as the rest of the jaw. What makes you think they may have been reground?

 

[Macduf]

My only vacuum grip tool,

 

[3baygarage]

A little ignition pliers from yesterday I de-rusted.

 

[JjKk40]

A little ignition pliers from yesterday I de-rusted.

Wow I like those! Gotta find a pair!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice find, 3eeb. (I'm liking the little local scenery signature photo piece, too.)

 

[Rickkyyr8]

Here’s a few of mine. No. 27, 25, and 44. Got a couple more

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Vacuum Grip Pliers Homecoming

Vacuum grip Pliers Homecoming 7/9/22

www.garagejournal.com

 

[Old Radar]

Thanks for posting, Lugz! Hopefully some of the membership will attend and post a report here!

 

[LesserSon]

OMG! I’ve been scheming on a trip to see the plier factory building, even without the expectation of finding anything! An event like this is just the thing to enlist the enthusiastic driving support of MrsLS.

 

[Ricky Joe]

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