What is under this barns floor?

[600SL]

Hello

I'm considering the purchase of a house with a barn. The barn is in central Ct. It was once part of an 80 acre farm used for raising cattle for beef. The barn has a plywood floor. I asked if there was concrete under the floor and he said no, it is a double 3/4" plywood floor on 2x 12 wood beams over a 4 ft pit that was used for storing hey. I was not aware of barns being used to install hey in the ground. So I'm wondering what the construction of this barn is below the floor. Its originally an 1800's barn that has been reconfigured several times, includng a reduction in size from ~ 60' x 100' to its current size of 30' x 100'

So the question is what could the crawl space under the barn be like. Would it be a full foundation with cement floor. Or could it just be a big dirt hole? How would they keep water out? What are the possibilities of filling it in for a concrete floor? It would require over 200 yards of fill?

Also any ideas of what can be done with the Silo

 

[65ranchero]

Is it possible that the barn was taller and what now below the floor was the "original" 1st floor?
Is there anyway to access under the floor?
My guess is it's stone foundation and could be back filled with rubble stone
If I had the place I would keep the silo, it's kinda cool!

 

[82355]

Get some pictures inside that silo. I wonder if it was a bank barn, and the current main level was the second floor?

Martin

 

[600SL]

Is it possible that the barn was taller and what now below the floor was the "original" 1st floor?
Is there anyway to access under the floor?
My guess is it's stone foundation and could be back filled with rubble stone
If I had the place I would keep the silo, it's kinda cool!

That does sound like a possibility. If you look at the silo, it looks like some lower hatchway was blocked off. Possibly the area was back filled to cover the original foundation.

The silo is cool and appears to be in good shape but a liability if it becomes too deteriorated and needs to be demolished.

 

[600SL]

Get some pictures inside that silo. I wonder if it was a bank barn, and the current main level was the second floor?

Martin

Cant see inside the silo except that its empty. Only acces is removing one of those windows. What is a bank barn? He did say it was about 4 ft deep.

 

[65ranchero]

What is a bank barn?

A barn built into a hill

 

[yeldogt]

On the inside it looks like a typical bank barn ... my guess is there was an elevation change to the rear. That has been changed in some way.

There are slight variations on the east coast when it comes to barn designs .... you can see the influence of both the British barn style and the German .... over time the German style took over.

The barns would be positioned on a soil "bank" with the side towards the wind --- topography typically aligned both. Sometimes the topography did not provide enough drop and the rear soil was cut out with stone wing walls holding back the front side soil. There are many variations .... often the two end walls were stone especially on the cut out ones as they needed a stronger foundation. Normally you would see the front elevated on those and there would be a front ramp to the doors ...

You can see the main doors in the center -- this is the working part of the barn. Front and rear doors would be opened and the wind through would aid in threshing, Barns are the big tool on the farm ... not just a big building.

Hay would be stored on either side and ... that is one cool silo for the grain or other seeds from the threshing -- very unusual. That's not going anyplace in your lifetime.

Obviously there were not doors where the current garage doors are located ..... on the low side of the barn there would be doors and that's where the animals would go. It was often not real tall .... much more than 4' the owner mentioned.

 

[RPH]

Beautiful building!
We had an old barn on the parents place that was old and huge. The hay loft was above the animal space both for ease of feeding and also insulation for the critters. The center section was wood floor drive through. The south end was called the hay mow. This was ground level up hay storage. In the horse drawn days things were commonly loose and not baled.

 

[600SL]

On the inside it looks like a typical bank barn ... my guess is there was an elevation change to the rear. That has been changed in some way.

There are slight variations on the east cost when it comes to barn designs .... you can see the influence of both the British barn style and the German .... over time the German style took over.

The barns would be positioned on a soil "bank" with the side towards the wind --- topography typically aligned both. Sometimes the topography did not provide enough drop and the rear soil was cut out with stone wing walls holding back the front side soil. There are many variations .... often the two end walls were stone especially on the cut out ones as they needed a stronger foundation. Normally you would see the front elevated on those and there would be a front ramp to the doors ...

You can see the main doors in the center -- this is the working part of the barn. Front and rear doors would be opened and the wind through would aid in threshing, Barns are the big tool on the farm ... not just a big building.

Hay would be stored on either side and ... that is one cool silo for the grain or other seeds from the threshing -- very unusual. That's not going anyplace in your lifetime.

Obviously there were not doors where the current garage doors are located ..... on the low side of the barn there would be doors and that's where the animals would go. It was often no real tall .... much more than 4'

If you look in the very back of the second photo, you see a boxed in area. That area was a section that housed a bull and two horses.

One thing I noticed is there is a hay opening above the bull and horse area, So I assume there once was a floor to store hay up there.

 

[yeldogt]

OP -- your barn is long. Many of them are only three spaces. Some have an extra space on one side for horses or even carriage storage. Most farms had more than one building. Sometimes many depending on what was being raised. I have seen dairy with huge second barns -- not on a bank.

 

[TractorJeff]

Put a Gazebo on top of the Silo with a Spiral Staircase leading up to it!
It looks solid!

 

[65ranchero]

Put a Gazebo on top of the Silo with a Spiral Staircase leading up to it!
It looks solid!

I am going to add that LED lights on a timer would look real nice at night in each of the silo windows , they don't even have to be bright.

 

[RPH]

But really it’s not what’s under the floor but what’s under the blue tarp?

 

[jack stand]

I've never seen an oblong silo! It appears that someone prior to you put some money into preserving it. It's very cool and has lots of possibilities if you let your imagination go.
Give us a picture of the back side and the grade. I'm having a hard time figuring how someone took off 30' of width. That would involve rebuilding the entire back wall and the roof. It could be that it was a "leanto" off what's left.

 

[yeldogt]

But really it’s not what’s under the floor but what’s under the blue tarp?

looks like one of those Corvettes -- an age that would have benefited from Japanese fit and finish

 

[rawen2]

But really it’s not what’s under the floor but what’s under the blue tarp?

My guess is a C4 corvette by looking at the wheels. 1985?

 

[600SL]

I've never seen an oblong silo! It appears that someone prior to you put some money into preserving it. It's very cool and has lots of possibilities if you let your imagination go.
Give us a picture of the back side and the grade. I'm having a hard time figuring how someone took off 30' of width. That would involve rebuilding the entire back wall and the roof. It could be that it was a "leanto" off what's left.

The 30' was taken off the front. My guess it was a shed attached to the front. But look at the front of the silo. Looks like the grade was lifted to cover some kind of opening or doorway. There once was a second silo on the oposite side back corner. It has since been torn down, but that one was round and a lot smaller.

 

[yeldogt]

OP -- the ground may have been lower all along the front with more of a ramp to both the silo and the barn. Depending on what the lower area was used for there was typically opening in the front for both air flow and light.

I looks like it was all filled in for the driveway and regraded. it's not uncommon to see these built prior to the 1850's ,,,,, as mechanical help came onboard the designs changed

 

[600SL]

looks like one of those Corvettes -- an age that would have benefited from Japanese fit and finish

Yes the wheels and outline look very corvettish.

 

[mepstein]

The barn looks nice. The silo looks awesome.

 

[nadogail]

Maybe Jimmy Hoffa is under that floor.

 

[Metal-Marc]

My guess is a C4 corvette by looking at the wheels. 1985?

You can see the nose too.

 

[mikedodge]

From those pictures it doesn't look like the ground is high enough to be covering a ground level.
The only way of knowing what's under the floor is to remove some of those sheets and find out or find another way under there. You probably find it's only whatever foundation was required to hold up whatever they framed the floor with.

 

[walta]

Consider this barn has survived 200+ years. I think you should consider yourself the current caretaker of the barn, not its owner. Don’t try to make it be the barn someone would build today let it be what it always been as much as possible.

I think the chances of finding a concrete floor beneath the wood floor is remote at best.

When this barn was built there were no concrete truck delivering tons of concrete cheaply like today. It was all mixed by hand and very expensive.

I think if a barn has a wood floor it is only because this floor was the second story and there was a lower level below. That wood floor was a huge amount of work to build it seems unlikely anyone would make that investment to build an almost useless crawlspace. I think the grade on the back of the barn was several feet lower when it was built you could walk in under the wood floor. Something like this photo.

I think the silo would make a cool two-story air B&B rental unit.





Walta

 

[yeldogt]

Prior to power equipment .... the "Barn" was a tool. One needed a place to thresh in the 19th century ... raising grain and hay was a necessity on a farm and it needed a place to be handled and stored dry. Barns in New England look more like a utility building and don't have doors on the long side.

There was rapid development throughout the 19th century ... the early english barns soon proved to be too small and the growth of the dairy industry required a modified barn not like any previous. It's really interesting to see the differences between the early British, German and Dutch barns .... few remain in the original state.

Have both rebuilt a barn and also bought a barn and had it moved (you only are a fool to do that once). There are more examples of the German around I think mostly because they often have stone side walls and they both hold up and are hard to modify. The designs were all obsolete by 1900 ... some of the best examples are now on properties bought 100 years ago and no longer used for profit farming. There was never a reason to modify them

 

[600SL]

Prior to power equipment .... the "Barn" was a tool. One needed a place to thresh in the 19th century ... raising grain and hay was a necessity on a farm and it needed a place to be handled and stored dry. Barns in New England look more like a utility building and don't have doors on the long side.

There was rapid development throughout the 19th century ... the early english barns soon proved to be too small and the growth of the dairy industry required a modified barn not like any previous. It's really interesting to see the differences between the early British, German and Dutch barns .... few remain in the original state.

Have both rebuilt a barn and also bought a barn and had it moved (you only are a fool to do that once). There are more examples of the German around I think mostly because they often have stone side walls and they both hold up and are hard to modify. The designs were all obsolete by 1900 ... some of the best examples are now on properties bought 100 years ago and no longer used for profit farming. There was never a reason to modify them

I have found a good websight of people in CT that may be able to get me more information from. Unfortunately I'm in NC and the barn is in CT so my investigation is limited. A pretty cool sight with a lot of cool info.

https://preservationct.org/barns

 

[yeldogt]

I have found a good websight of people in CT that may be able to get me more information from. Unfortunately I'm in NC and the barn is in CT so my investigation is limited. A pretty cool sight with a lot of cool info.

https://preservationct.org/barns

I used to be involved in a PA one ..... different groups in the area put together barn tours for fundraisers. Both bucks and chester counties in PA have dedicated preservation groups. There is not much you can do with an old barn .... it becomes a storage space. The cost to transform a barn into a living space or to even condition it is very difficult

 

[Jackfre]

I worked on a very large barn restoration back in about ‘70 in Newfield, NY, outside of Ithaca. I believe it has been converted to apts now, but man, what a cavern and how well built it was. it was 60‘ at the peak. The barn is really nice, if you have a plan for it. I think the silo is the prize there. What are its dimensions?

 

[mepstein]

We are converting this one into a shop. We had to cut concrete and re-pour since it was as thin as 2” in some spots. Has a big hvac unit to keep us comfortable. Lots of issues that make the structure less than ideal but it’s in an area that would be very difficult to build new.

 

[mepstein]

I used to be involved in a PA one ..... different groups in the area put together barn tours for fundraisers. Both bucks and chester counties in PA have dedicated preservation groups. There is not much you can do with an old barn .... it becomes a storage space. The cost to transform a barn into a living space or to even condition it is very difficult

Our barn is in lower Chester county. I’m sure the town would have a field day if they knew what we were doing.

 

[yeldogt]

Our barn is in lower Chester county. I’m sure the town would have a field day if they knew what we were doing.

There really is not much protection for them ... other than the value of having one on the property.

The one I bought and dismantled was up north of Allentown PA -- built before 1850. Typical english barn and I only did it because I had a guy who was doing SIP's. My original plan was to use the siding as well .... but -- we only got maybe 25% usable wood from the planks. The upper floor planks from each of the hay lofts ended up being special as they were very wide. The main floor boards were just too gross ... 140 years of animals and 90 of machinery. I had done an apartment carveout on an early one where we insulted and drywalled between all the timbers .. I really had no idea what I was getting into with rebuilding one.

 

[landrover bodger]

turn the silo into a vacation rental . thats the sort of place people pay good money to stay in .

 

[mepstein]

I was in a very large barn in Maine that holds the puppet museum. Floors were wood. You could see through cracks in the floor to a dirt craw space. I bet the plywood was laid down to cover old wood flooring. - Just a guess, I’m no barn expert.

 

[yeldogt]

I was in a very large barn in Maine that holds the puppet museum. Floors were wood. You could see through cracks in the floor to a dirt craw space. I bet the plywood was laid down to cover old wood flooring. - Just a guess, I’m no barn expert.

Northern barns typically are not bank barns -- some areas are all rock as well. They look more like a big garage with doors on the short side .. not into the wind

 

[600SL]

turn the silo into a vacation rental . thats the sort of place people pay good money to stay in .

I have been considering that. My guess id the fire codes might require two stair cases and egress windows.

 

[mepstein]

I have been considering that. My guess id the fire codes might require two stair cases and egress windows.

I think that's why people do the air b&b. I don't see people bringing them up to code. They just list it on a website and collect the money. I doubt most of them tell their insurance company that they rent out rooms.

Farms often have different rules than standard residential housing. Most people that I know who own farms build what they want and don't ask the town for permission. Is this property still zoned as a farm?

If you want to make money, turn the barn & silo into a wedding/party venue.

 

[73fxe]

Drill a small hole and run a scope in.

 

[Prospecter]

My neighbors' barn had a 5'-6' space under it. Manure was dumped through trap doors all winter, and cleared out in the spring / summer. Our barn had a smaller enclosed pit for an indoor "outhouse." When we rebuilt and put in a foundation, the leavings from the ancient privy needed to be excavated, because they would not support the new foundation and slab.

 

[egdede]

I have toured an Amish farm with a wood-floored barn. When I asked if there was a basement, the guide said "not really" and said the cows manure was 'stored' there. No F'n way I'd ever work an Amish farm. I'd get me job in town as a carpenter using the bosses air-nailers.

 

[pbon]

In NH, you would probably find a 4-5’ tall dirt floor space under there with acess out the back or side that is lower grade. Part of it could bea root cellar but most of it was probably for shoveling manure out of the way temporarily. Hay usually went above onto a lift where it is drier. The foundation of likely granite/stone with the beams resting in granite/stone.
Unless someone has already redone this barn, you won’t find a nice poured concrete floor. It does look like work has been done since the floor seems level. But that work may be limited to shimming the framing beams or adding additional ones also on stone supports. It’s only if you get lucky that you will find a lot more due to the cost.

I had one small barn, 20x30 with a dirt 4-5’ basement. It was an old carriage house. I cut out the floor, filled it, poured a slab and lowered the floor by about 18” to reduce the ramp going in and to gain ceiling height. I installed a 2 post lift. In another carriage house, 24x30, I left the wood floor, which had been previously reinforced with steel beams and center supports on top of a low poured concrete foundation, and used a 4 post lift on top of the wood floor.