ZMotorsports Shop Projects 2.0

[corn chip]

its one of them newer aam 9.25 front axles with elock carrier. unfortunatly theres no optional thicker carrier or ring gear. the two options are ring spacer or ive seen one guy slide the carrier over via the carrier bearing adjusters but it looked sketchy as the ring has to move laterally quit a ways to account for the much smaller diam pinion. nearly 1/4" lateraly i think but havent yet verified.
yes i know the ID interface is just for locating but if that interface is gone then that responsibility would then be all on the bolts. im only guessing at this point as i havent verified anything. perhaps even with the spacer theres still a small amount of carrier interface left

 

[signcrafter]

Finished up the Jeep last night and got her back on the road.



Outer bearing on the bearing heater in preparation for final assembly of the pinion. Also have the adapter bolted to the yoke for assembly.

When I did mine I bought that same holding plate. I found it akward to use with a breaker bar like it's designed. I grabbed a length of 3/4" pipe and cut a notch the same width as the adapter plate in the middle of the pipe end. Slide the plate in and welded it up. Made it much nicer to use with a solid connection there. My breaker bar with flex head kept wanting to flex and it kept slipping off. I was also working off jack stands so with a 4' or so pipe it rested on the ground nice and I didn't even have to hold it once bolted to the yoke.

 

[zmotorsports]

When I did mine I bought that same holding plate. I found it akward to use with a breaker bar like it's designed. I grabbed a length of 3/4" pipe and cut a notch the same width as the adapter plate in the middle of the pipe end. Slide the plate in and welded it up. Made it much nicer to use with a solid connection there. My breaker bar with flex head kept wanting to flex and it kept slipping off. I was also working off jack stands so with a 4' or so pipe it rested on the ground nice and I didn't even have to hold it once bolted to the yoke.

Funny you mention that Scott. I was less than impressed as this is the first job I used it on. In all my years of doing axle work I had several grunt tools that I had made but I saw this at Summit Racing a few months back and it was about the same cost as the shipping it would save me so I thought I'd give it a try. I should have just stayed with my old tried and true shop made grunt tools.

I generally bolt my grunt tool to the yoke and then lock it into the suspension or undercarriage some how so I only have to deal with the ratchet on the pinion nut but I agree that the fact of using two ratchet, while sounding appealing, was actually very cumbersome and uncomfortable.

 

[WoodsTruck]

I made my own. Slip tube into my cheater pipe so it would reach the floor and I could slide it off to spin the pinion without unbolting it.

 

[macgyver]

Quinn, that is good to hear and has kind of been my experience, until now.

Funny thing is that in the first 90k driven miles and another 30k plus of dragging it around behind the coach on 35" tires, I never questioned my rear axle because I had upgraded axle shafts and I actually think that when I wheel I am very conservative. I was even running 5.38 gears which as I'm sure you know the pinion is very small once you pass that 5.13 ratio. Most people on the Jeep forums would have you believe that a 5.38 will blow the ring and pinion if you look at it wrong but mine survived 8+ years and 90k miles of daily driving and quite a bit of off-road wheeling. However, I knew how the gears were set up because I am the one who set them up and I drove accordingly knowing that was my weak link in the drivetrain.

When I wheel I am very methodical about wheel placement, the line I am taking and even to the point of knowing where the stresses are in my Jeep as I approach different sections of an obstacle. In my mind I can actually see where the components are moaning and groaning and where they are relaxed and stresses are reduced as I am progressing through a particular obstacle. When I was teaching my son to drive off-road, as well as when we were racing, I would explain that if you are going to push a vehicle (or anything for that matter), you have to know the vehicle, know the components that are most vulnerable and know where that line is that you don't want to cross if you are to have your equipment survive. I used to joke with him about knowing his equipment intimately and treating it with respect is what will get him off the trail and back home safely and that was more of a badge of honor than body damage or broken parts.

I used to think that being a mechanic may be more of a curse than a blessing because of the way I overthink things when we wheel. We wheel with a lot of people who just point and shoot and most of the time their equipment survives and here I am overthinking the stresses of my equipment.

When I went to the 6.2 liter engine and 37" tires about 50k miles ago and about 3.5 years ago I had people coming out of the woodwork telling me I needed to upgrade to full-floating axles with that kind of power or I'd be breaking axles left and right. My response was always the same, "why would I break stuff now if I drive the same as I have for the previous 8 years and 90k miles if I drive in the same manner?"

Now that I have had this pinion failure I have begun to overthink it (shocker I know) and have been contemplating if I should upgrade to something just a little stronger than what I have or just repair the Dana 44 under my Jeep and continue on with life.

I know I do not want a full-floater as it is way overkill for my driving style and my Jeep but I keep leaning towards that ProRock 60 semi-floater as a gap filler between a full floater and what I have now. The ProRock 60 will give me the 9.75" ring gear and larger pinion of a Dana 60, slightly larger bearings and slightly larger axle shafts being 35-spline 1.5". It's not a HUGE step up from what I have but it is a small step which may give me that peace of mind.

As I look at the pinion my mind and gut tell me it is something with the manufacturing process but then that little voice pops in my head that says "yeah, but what about next time?" I can't seem to quite overthinking this breakage as it is really the first thing I've had fail on my Jeep in the past 140k miles and 11-years that has me questioning the reliability.

I know there are a lot of people like yourself that are running V8's and still have the Dana 44 rear axle without issue. Hell even AEV sells their Jeeps with the 5.7 and 6.4 Hemi packages with the Dana 44 and they don't seem to baby them when I've seen them on the trails.


Seeing as how you build Jeeps for a living Quinn, I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you.

Hey Mike, I guess I missed a day on here and you have already fixed the Jeep! I would have done the same. The Dana 60's are nice in any flavor but a ton of money that MOST people don't need. I never added a 60 to our JK because the 44 has done a great job. I did however add chomoly axles just in case, but stayed with the stock 32 splines axle size. It has been beat pretty hard over the years and I am happy with it. Now the front has been replaced with a Currie HD 44 because we bent the stock front 44. We ran it with a slight bend for several years. It wasn't high on the priority list at the time. We ran it until the stock locker gave up. Then it became a priority. I considered a 60 for a few minutes, but decided against it on that Jeep. So with the new Currie housing, I did add 35 spline RCV's and ARB to give it some added strength. It has been flawless for about 8 years or so.

Full floats are nice and usually we start looking at those around 40" tires. The 2 bearing design is nice with the weight of the large heavy tires that are beat on hard. On 37's the stock semi float is fine. If you are worried about adding a little strength, Revoluion Axles are the only axles I know of that will warranty a bent axle flange on a semi float axle, also twisted splines. That's why I like Revolution Axles. Now on my 93YJ I did build it with Currie Dana60's and full float hubs. It needed it because of the 40" tires and the intended use. It does get beat on and it was built to go to the "Hammers" in Johnson Valley and other hard trails.

Seeing how you are one of the most particular gear guys I have seen for set up, I like the idea of repairing your axle and keep on going. I have been doing gears myself since 2011. I am pretty particular too, but not quite to your level I don't keep track of the data and engrave it on the gears like you! I just don't have the time on a daily basis to keep track of that info on every gear job. I do however have a great track record!!!

 

[signcrafter]

Funny you mention that Scott. I was less than impressed as this is the first job I used it on. In all my years of doing axle work I had several grunt tools that I had made but I saw this at Summit Racing a few months back and it was about the same cost as the shipping it would save me so I thought I'd give it a try. I should have just stayed with my old tried and true shop made grunt tools.

I generally bolt my grunt tool to the yoke and then lock it into the suspension or undercarriage some how so I only have to deal with the ratchet on the pinion nut but I agree that the fact of using two ratchet, while sounding appealing, was actually very cumbersome and uncomfortable.

It actually was pretty nice once I modified it. I'm sure with your fab and welding skills you could come up with a pretty nice setup. I like the removable handle woodstruck posted. I may have to copy that design because it was a pain to take on and off when I needed to check the rotational torque as I tightened it up.

 

[signcrafter]

Duplicate post

 

[signcrafter]

I made my own. Slip tube into my cheater pipe so it would reach the floor and I could slide it off to spin the pinion without unbolting it.

I like that removeable handle idea. So you just leave the holder attached to the yoke while checking rotational torque and it doesn't affect the reading at all?

 

[WoodsTruck]

Yes, I only unbolted it when I was all done. I kept it on until the bitter end and it gave a nice spot to put my 2-jaw puller when popping the yoke off the pinion. The side tube added a very small amount of weight but I saw no difference in torque reading at different rotational positions. I lucked out that the small diameter tube that I went dumpster diving for fit nice and snug in my cheater pipe and still cleared my suspended driveline and headers. Small piece of conveyor belt on the floor to rest the pipe on kept the floor damage and noise to a minimum. The holder appeared to be plenty stout enough and I could still reach up behind it get the washer and nut on or off the pinion threads.

 

[lilscorpion]

Finished up the Jeep last night and got her back on the road.

Back to perfect just like that!

Outer bearing on the bearing heater in preparation for final assembly of the pinion. Also have the adapter bolted to the yoke for assembly

No one else was like "THERE'S SUCH A THING AS A FREAKIN' BEARING HEATER?!?!?!?!?"

Mike, dude, I think I might just like to hang out in your shop for a day and go through your toolbox. I'd probably learn more just hearing what everything is for than I've learned from YouTube in the last 10 years.

 

[Boosted1]

Back to perfect just like that!



No one else was like "THERE'S SUCH A THING AS A FREAKIN' BEARING HEATER?!?!?!?!?"

Mike, dude, I think I might just like to hang out in your shop for a day and go through your toolbox. I'd probably learn more just hearing what everything is for than I've learned from YouTube in the last 10 years.

Yeah I was like that too. Where did that come from!?

 

[signcrafter]

Back to perfect just like that!



No one else was like "THERE'S SUCH A THING AS A FREAKIN' BEARING HEATER?!?!?!?!?"

Mike, dude, I think I might just like to hang out in your shop for a day and go through your toolbox. I'd probably learn more just hearing what everything is for than I've learned from YouTube in the last 10 years.

I looked into them and they are pretty expensive for the occasional use. We used to keep a toaster oven in our travel trailer since it didnt have an oven, just a stove top and microwave. I say used to because I stole the toaster oven to heat up my bearings. The wife and kids may be a little upset when they go to make toast this summer when we go camping. Lol

 

[corn chip]

i hadent seen a tree style bearing heater but seen something along those same lines for bearings of motorcycle crankshafts. if i were doing gear swaps regularly then of course i would have a heater as well

 

[zmotorsports]

Hey Mike, I guess I missed a day on here and you have already fixed the Jeep! I would have done the same. The Dana 60's are nice in any flavor but a ton of money that MOST people don't need. I never added a 60 to our JK because the 44 has done a great job. I did however add chomoly axles just in case, but stayed with the stock 32 splines axle size. It has been beat pretty hard over the years and I am happy with it. Now the front has been replaced with a Currie HD 44 because we bent the stock front 44. We ran it with a slight bend for several years. It wasn't high on the priority list at the time. We ran it until the stock locker gave up. Then it became a priority. I considered a 60 for a few minutes, but decided against it on that Jeep. So with the new Currie housing, I did add 35 spline RCV's and ARB to give it some added strength. It has been flawless for about 8 years or so.

Full floats are nice and usually we start looking at those around 40" tires. The 2 bearing design is nice with the weight of the large heavy tires that are beat on hard. On 37's the stock semi float is fine. If you are worried about adding a little strength, Revoluion Axles are the only axles I know of that will warranty a bent axle flange on a semi float axle, also twisted splines. That's why I like Revolution Axles. Now on my 93YJ I did build it with Currie Dana60's and full float hubs. It needed it because of the 40" tires and the intended use. It does get beat on and it was built to go to the "Hammers" in Johnson Valley and other hard trails.

Seeing how you are one of the most particular gear guys I have seen for set up, I like the idea of repairing your axle and keep on going. I have been doing gears myself since 2011. I am pretty particular too, but not quite to your level I don't keep track of the data and engrave it on the gears like you! I just don't have the time on a daily basis to keep track of that info on every gear job. I do however have a great track record!!!

Thanks for the feedback Quinn. That was pretty much my assessment as well. I won't go above 37's and it's been fine for the past 140k miles and even the last 3.5 years and 50k miles with the LS engine. For the manner in which I drive I feel the Dana 44 housing is fine. I added chromoly axle shafts back in 2011 when I initially built the Jeep with the 5.38 gears and 35" tires and ran it for 8 years and 90k miles trouble free. Then when I redid the gears again in late 2018 before doing the LS swap I installed a new set of chromoly axle shafts and carry the old set with my in the coach for that "just in case" situation. When I rebuilt it this time with 50k miles on it, the bearings, shafts and locker all looked pristine but I ended up replacing the bearings anyways just so they have a fresh start.

The setup of the new 4.56 gears went pretty well but I did add a couple thousands of backlash compared to last setup so I am in the middle of the range now vs. the tighter end of the spec.

Funny you mention the front axle. I replaced my OEM housing back in 2017 while I was still on 35's and before I damaged it. We put that under my son's WJ who was planning on running 33's and definitely nothing over 35's so I figured it would be better suited for his Jeep and I purchased a blank Dynatrac ProRock 44 housing and have had that under the Jeep for about 70~ish thousand miles now. The ProRock is a great housing and I feel completely comfortable running 37's on it. I don't feel I need the carrying capacity of a full-floater plus I don't want to add any more weight to the Jeep nor go to 8-lug wheels. Granted the weight is unsprung weight, but it's still added weight when it comes to power to weight ratio and getting that mass moving (and stopped).

We have friends in the FMCA 4-Wheelers that we wheel with that are definitely harder on their equipment than I am so I feel this was just a fluke and decided to put her back to the way she was and run her.

I appreciate the feedback and confirming my thoughts Quinn. It helps hearing from others that are sunning similar setups.

 

[zmotorsports]

Back to perfect just like that!



No one else was like "THERE'S SUCH A THING AS A FREAKIN' BEARING HEATER?!?!?!?!?"

Mike, dude, I think I might just like to hang out in your shop for a day and go through your toolbox. I'd probably learn more just hearing what everything is for than I've learned from YouTube in the last 10 years.

Yeah I was like that too. Where did that come from!?

i hadent seen a tree style bearing heater but seen something along those same lines for bearings of motorcycle crankshafts. if i were doing gear swaps regularly then of course i would have a heater as well

Thanks guys. If memory serves, I bought this particular bearing heater from Grainger but it's been close to 30 years ago at least, maybe longer. Funny how time goes by and you can't remember when you purchased something. I do remember it wasn't cheap but when I was first starting doing rear ends back in the late 80's I swore if I was going to get into doing them I was going to have the correct tools as well as learn to do them properly. I also purchased my case spreader about the same time, which also wasn't cheap but I found it to be necessary. I think I purchased the case spreader a year or two before the bearing heater. The bearing heater has come in very handy over the years on many more things than just rear ends though so it was a worth while investment. I also purchased a small electric heating element for when I was heating motorcycle heads when removing/replacing valve guides but it doesn't seem to work quite as well for bearings as the bearing heater. I use temperature crayons for various temperatures to monitor the bearings as they are heating up to prevent overheating the bearings.

 

[signcrafter]

Thanks guys. If memory serves, I bought this particular bearing heater from Grainger but it's been close to 30 years ago at least, maybe longer. Funny how time goes by and you can't remember when you purchased something. I do remember it wasn't cheap but when I was first starting doing rear ends back in the late 80's I swore if I was going to get into doing them I was going to have the correct tools as well as learn to do them properly. I also purchased my case spreader about the same time, which also wasn't cheap but I found it to be necessary. I think I purchased the case spreader a year or two before the bearing heater. The bearing heater has come in very handy over the years on many more things than just rear ends though so it was a worth while investment. I also purchased a small electric heating element for when I was heating motorcycle heads when removing/replacing valve guides but it doesn't seem to work quite as well for bearings as the bearing heater. I use temperature crayons for various temperatures to monitor the bearings as they are heating up to prevent overheating the bearings.

Pretty sure I learn something new from every one of your posts Mike. Never knew about temperature crayons. Do you just pick a temp you want the bearing to be and make a mark with the crayon just below that temp?

I agree about if you are going to do something then do it right. I have no plans on getting into rear end building business but even so you have to have the right tools to even do one. After seeing your carrier bearing puller tool and watching some videos I purchased one also, for if I ever do another rear end I will have it. I also picked up a used snap on cj951 after your recommendation. Also got a big set of bearing/race adapters for using on the press. I'm sure there was some other tools bought specifically for working on rear ends but can't remember everything. My Grandpa used to say "If you're going to do a job, no matter how big or how small, do it right or don't do it at all" and I try to go by that philosophy. Wifey hates when I tell her I just spend X amount of dollars on tools for a certain repair. But that's how I am. Just did front outboard U joints on a F350 and had to buy the specialty tool to set the seal at the correct position when reinstalling the axles. Actually ended up with 2 of the tools, long story there, but now they will most likely sit on the shelf next to all the other specialty tools like the carrier bearing puller tool that will probably have an inch of dust on it by the time I use it again. Some guys try to pound that seal in without the tool but that looked like a huge pain and wasn't willing to take a chance damaging a 70 dollar seal because I didn't want to buy the correct tool.

You feeling better and back to 100% now? If fuel wasn't so expensive right now I would have gladly drove out and gave you a hand with the jeep just to learn from you.

 

[zmotorsports]

Pretty sure I learn something new from every one of your posts Mike. Never knew about temperature crayons. Do you just pick a temp you want the bearing to be and make a mark with the crayon just below that temp?

I agree about if you are going to do something then do it right. I have no plans on getting into rear end building business but even so you have to have the right tools to even do one. After seeing your carrier bearing puller tool and watching some videos I purchased one also, for if I ever do another rear end I will have it. I also picked up a used snap on cj951 after your recommendation. Also got a big set of bearing/race adapters for using on the press. I'm sure there was some other tools bought specifically for working on rear ends but can't remember everything. My Grandpa used to say "If you're going to do a job, no matter how big or how small, do it right or don't do it at all" and I try to go by that philosophy. Wifey hates when I tell her I just spend X amount of dollars on tools for a certain repair. But that's how I am. Just did front outboard U joints on a F350 and had to buy the specialty tool to set the seal at the correct position when reinstalling the axles. Actually ended up with 2 of the tools, long story there, but now they will most likely sit on the shelf next to all the other specialty tools like the carrier bearing puller tool that will probably have an inch of dust on it by the time I use it again. Some guys try to pound that seal in without the tool but that looked like a huge pain and wasn't willing to take a chance damaging a 70 dollar seal because I didn't want to buy the correct tool.

You feeling better and back to 100% now? If fuel wasn't so expensive right now I would have gladly drove out and gave you a hand with the jeep just to learn from you.

Thank you Scott. I appreciate the kind words.

I use the crayons to touch the inner race as the bearing is heating up. I start by touching the cone of the heater first and at the correct temperature the crayon will start to melt. By touching the cone I know the heater itself is up to temperature, then I will touch the inner race occasionally and have everything at the ready so as soon as the bearing it to temperature the installation process begins and goes very quickly. I have all of the tools and the parts sitting next to the work area as well as having some RTV on the splines of the yoke. This prevents gear oil from working its way up the splines and to the pinion nut. Yes, I've had those leak in the past so I now apply some RTV to prevent that situation.

Insert the pinion, the crush sleeve (or shims), put the heated outer bearing, then I apply some gear oil that does two things, cools the bearing before installing the seal. The heated bearing will go on about 90-95% of the way before cooling it will gear oil. Then still working quickly the seal goes into the axle housing, then the yoke, washer, nut then start tightening everything down and drawing the outer pinion bearing onto the pinion that last little bit as you creep up on the pinion preload. I also apply some Sil-Glyde on the inner lip of the seal and the outer seal surface of the yoke to prevent dry starting on the test drive.

I never intended to do as many gears as I do. I purchased the tools to do my own when I was racing and then it expanded from there once people found out I did gears. Then in 1997 I opened my speed shop and pretty much took on anything and everything I could get my hands on and most of the money at that time was going almost exclusively towards tools and equipment. My goal was to someday have a fully equipped shop so I didn't have to do work for other people. Now that I have accomplished that, I still enjoy doing work for others as a side gig for extra money and to continue learning and improving my skillset. Seems like I still learn something new with each job that comes through the shop.

I appreciate the offer, I've just found I'm moving a bit slower to get things done the last week or so but at least I'm in the shop working. My son has been great to stop by and come over and help with a few things but I hate to bother him.

 

[signcrafter]

Thank you Scott. I appreciate the kind words.

I use the crayons to touch the inner race as the bearing is heating up. I start by touching the cone of the heater first and at the correct temperature the crayon will start to melt. By touching the cone I know the heater itself is up to temperature, then I will touch the inner race occasionally and have everything at the ready so as soon as the bearing it to temperature the installation process begins and goes very quickly. I have all of the tools and the parts sitting next to the work area as well as having some RTV on the splines of the yoke. This prevents gear oil from working its way up the splines and to the pinion nut. Yes, I've had those leak in the past so I now apply some RTV to prevent that situation.

Insert the pinion, the crush sleeve (or shims), put the heated outer bearing, then I apply some gear oil that does two things, cools the bearing before installing the seal. The heated bearing will go on about 90-95% of the way before cooling it will gear oil. Then still working quickly the seal goes into the axle housing, then the yoke, washer, nut then start tightening everything down and drawing the outer pinion bearing onto the pinion that last little bit as you creep up on the pinion preload. I also apply some Sil-Glyde on the inner lip of the seal and the outer seal surface of the yoke to prevent dry starting on the test drive.

I never intended to do as many gears as I do. I purchased the tools to do my own when I was racing and then it expanded from there once people found out I did gears. Then in 1997 I opened my speed shop and pretty much took on anything and everything I could get my hands on and most of the money at that time was going almost exclusively towards tools and equipment. My goal was to someday have a fully equipped shop so I didn't have to do work for other people. Now that I have accomplished that, I still enjoy doing work for others as a side gig for extra money and to continue learning and improving my skillset. Seems like I still learn something new with each job that comes through the shop.

I appreciate the offer, I've just found I'm moving a bit slower to get things done the last week or so but at least I'm in the shop working. My son has been great to stop by and come over and help with a few things but I hate to bother him.

That's pretty much where I am at. I started buying tools so I could fix my own stuff instead of paying others and then took on jobs to help pay the bills and buy more tools. And once people find out you can do certain tasks they seem to need those things done all of a sudden. One of my biggest examples of that is key programming. Had a friend that wanted a second key and a locksmith was going to charge him 250 bucks. I had always wanted to get a programming tool for those times when changing an ignition lock or whatever simple task it was and you needed to program things. So I bought the autel im508 and a key blank. Went to hardware store to have them cut key and they wouldn't. Called a few locksmiths and all refused to cut the key. I had never planned on getting a key cut being an issue. So at this point my im508 was pretty useless, just spent a grand on a tool I couldn't use because I couldn't get a key cut. I could have bought a key from hardware store for 80-100 bucks and then they would have cut it, but that won't pay for the tools I just bought doing it that way when I can get most keys for about 20 bucks from a online locksmith supply. Only choice was to jump further in and buy key cutting machine. Now once people find out I can do keys I do a couple every week almost. Depending on key cost and programming involved I charge 80-250 bucks a key. Was a little surprised at how fast that one took off when there are so many options out there for keys already. My key cutting machines are the cheaper chinese knock offs right now but after doing a bunch of keys and getting this equipment paid off I will be looking into one of the fancier automated key cutters. Same thing with tires, my TPMS sensors needed fixed at 100 bucks a pop from the tire shop. I bought the autel tool to program TPMS sensors and did my own by breaking the bead and pushing tire down. Then once people found out I could do TPMS they all needed sensors done also. So I pulled the trigger on a tire machine to dismount and mount the tires. Equipment has all paid for itself and it's there to use whenever I need it.

 

[rattle_snake]

Good to see you have already swapped in a new R&P in the jeep 44. Guess rockwells or axletechs will be next round

Vehicle weight is an important aspect when off-roading and sometimes bigger/stonger for the sake of bigger/stronger can be a hindrance. One of my favorite quotes form another forum is 'just add lightness'.
The drivetrain you have built is already very well matched for your use. Agree with it's back to 'perfect'.

 

[zmotorsports]

Good to see you have already swapped in a new R&P in the jeep 44. Guess rockwells or axletechs will be next round

Vehicle weight is an important aspect when off-roading and sometimes bigger/stonger for the sake of bigger/stronger can be a hindrance. One of my favorite quotes form another forum is 'just add lightness'.
The drivetrain you have built is already very well matched for your use. Agree with it's back to 'perfect'.

Thanks Justin. I appreciate the feedback. Adding weight isn't necessarily the answer. Then it will have to be addressed getting over obstacles.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Mike,

I’ve been chipping away at reading through your thread for quite a while now (months!) The work you perform, detail you provide, and insight you offer into everything you do is incredible. There is obviously way too much going on in here to comment on everything, but really well done. I think I’m finally at a point where I can keep up with what you’re currently posting about!

That pinion failure was gnarly. I really want to rebuild the Dana 30 in my XJ…. I think the pinion bearing may be making some noise. Im getting a bearing-type grinding sound in the front end. All of my driveshaft u-joints, front axle shaft u-joints, and wheel bearings have been replaced up front. Im not sure what else it could be. I’m heavily considering regearing from 3.55 to 4.10 to get the power band back closer to where it was before I upgraded to 31s…. But I’m honestly really intimidated by the whole process. I’ve watched so many YouTube videos but many contradict others. Is there any sources you can recommend that I can dig through for the proper way to set up an axle?

 

[Seagoon]

Mike,
I’ve watched so many YouTube videos but many contradict others. Is there any sources you can recommend that I can dig through for the proper way to set up an axle?

Drive to Utah, give Mike money,sit back and relax .
And yes even though I'm a Brit I do realize that the distance involved makes that uneconomical.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Drive to Utah, give Mike money,sit back and relax .
And yes even though I'm a Brit I do realize that the distance involved makes that uneconomical.

To be honest, a trip to Utah with my Jeep is quite high on my bucket list!

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike,

I’ve been chipping away at reading through your thread for quite a while now (months!) The work you perform, detail you provide, and insight you offer into everything you do is incredible. There is obviously way too much going on in here to comment on everything, but really well done. I think I’m finally at a point where I can keep up with what you’re currently posting about!

That pinion failure was gnarly. I really want to rebuild the Dana 30 in my XJ…. I think the pinion bearing may be making some noise. Im getting a bearing-type grinding sound in the front end. All of my driveshaft u-joints, front axle shaft u-joints, and wheel bearings have been replaced up front. Im not sure what else it could be. I’m heavily considering regearing from 3.55 to 4.10 to get the power band back closer to where it was before I upgraded to 31s…. But I’m honestly really intimidated by the whole process. I’ve watched so many YouTube videos but many contradict others. Is there any sources you can recommend that I can dig through for the proper way to set up an axle?

Thank you very much for wading through my thread and for the kind words. I've been following along on your garage build and have been very impressed with the transformation you put it through and you have created a beautiful home and property. When you started getting into Jeeps it was a bonus to follow you.

As for YouTube videos explaining gears, I have a few on my channel that I show how I do them. I cannot comment on others as I haven't really seen many. The few I have seen didn't impress me all that much and varied from my process so I just have stuck to what I know and what works for me. I have been doing gears and axle work for 30 or so years now and I am somewhat **** about my process that I have developed over those years. I show most all my work right here in this thread where I've set up a lot of gears over the past few years now so if you haven't seen those posts, they may be just as helpful as a video.

They are not all that difficult so don't be intimidated, just be thorough, clean and use the correct tools to ensure proper preload on both the pinion and the carrier bearings. I also highly recommend making up some set-up bearings which will save you some time and frustration for certain. Seeing what you've accomplished thus far on the XJ's, I don't think you will have any issues with gears.

Thanks again for following along and for the flattering comments.

 

[XJSuperman]

I’m heavily considering regearing from 3.55 to 4.10 to get the power band back closer to where it was before I upgraded to 31s…. But I’m honestly really intimidated by the whole process. I’ve watched so many YouTube videos but many contradict others. Is there any sources you can recommend that I can dig through for the proper way to set up an axle?

I have an XJ on 31s that went from 3.55 to 4.10, and I can tell you its absolutely worth the effort.

 

[zmotorsports]

I have an XJ on 31s that went from 3.55 to 4.10, and I can tell you its absolutely worth the effort.

Agreed. Our first Jeep was a 1991 XJ that I ran 31's and after going to 4.10's it was a completely different vehicle, this was my wife's daily driver. Later in both mine and my son's ZJ's we went to 4.56's with our 32" tires and they were awesome both on and off-road.

 

[MrPink]

I rather enjoyed my v8 ZJ when I had it on 33's and 4.56 gears, and swapped in a 231 case instead of the 249 awd case.

 

[zmotorsports]

I rather enjoyed my v8 ZJ when I had it on 33's and 4.56 gears, and swapped in a 231 case instead of the 249 awd case.

Exactly. Getting rid of that NP249 (Quadra-Trac) was a game changer in its own right. I really liked our 1996 ZJ as well. It worked well as a daily driver, weekend wheeler and toad that we flat-towed behind our coach. The 5.2 liter V8 actually did a very good job considering the bad rap it gets from many. Mine had nearly 200k miles on it and never gave me a seconds problem with just routine maintenance. Never had any transmission issues either. In addition to the ~200k driven miles we flat-towed it probably another 60k-75k over the course of the 14 years we owned it. I even kept the aluminum Dana 44 rear end and Dana 30 front end without a single issue, even with quite a few off-road miles. Granted I knew it was under there and didn't bounce it off the rocks and drove it accordingly but never a drivetrain issue in all those miles.

 

[MrPink]

Exactly. Getting rid of that NP249 (Quadra-Trac) was a game changer in its own right. I really liked our 1996 ZJ as well. It worked well as a daily driver, weekend wheeler and toad that we flat-towed behind our coach. The 5.2 liter V8 actually did a very good job considering the bad rap it gets from many. Mine had nearly 200k miles on it and never gave me a seconds problem with just routine maintenance. Never had any transmission issues either. In addition to the ~200k driven miles we flat-towed it probably another 60k-75k over the course of the 14 years we owned it. I even kept the aluminum Dana 44 rear end and Dana 30 front end without a single issue, even with quite a few off-road miles. Granted I knew it was under there and didn't bounce it off the rocks and drove it accordingly but never a drivetrain issue in all those miles.

I had the 44RE blow up on me, had the trans rebuilt and the 231 swap done at the same time, it had roughly 212k or so on it. never had an issue with the 5.2L at all. the only reason I got rid of the Jeep was that i was commuting ~100mi one way to work and needed something better on fuel, so i traded it in on a 2010 VW Jetta TDI, that was actually bought back because of the dieselgate scandal. I paid ~8k for the Jetta and VW paid me roughly 13k for it.

 

[stockerwithalocker]

That pinion failure was gnarly. I really want to rebuild the Dana 30 in my XJ…. I think the pinion bearing may be making some noise. Im getting a bearing-type grinding sound in the front end. All of my driveshaft u-joints, front axle shaft u-joints, and wheel bearings have been replaced up front. Im not sure what else it could be. I’m heavily considering regearing from 3.55 to 4.10 to get the power band back closer to where it was before I upgraded to 31s….

If you have some stub shafts, remove the front shafts and just put stub shafts in the unit bearings and reinstall. You’ll want to put something in the axle tube to prevent gear oil from coming out. Doing this will prevent the carrier from spinning and you can diagnose if it’s in the third.

I’ll third 4.10s on 31s, thats what i have in my stock jeep.

 

[Mr. Roboto]

Thank you very much for wading through my thread and for the kind words. I've been following along on your garage build and have been very impressed with the transformation you put it through and you have created a beautiful home and property. When you started getting into Jeeps it was a bonus to follow you.

As for YouTube videos explaining gears, I have a few on my channel that I show how I do them. I cannot comment on others as I haven't really seen many. The few I have seen didn't impress me all that much and varied from my process so I just have stuck to what I know and what works for me. I have been doing gears and axle work for 30 or so years now and I am somewhat **** about my process that I have developed over those years. I show most all my work right here in this thread where I've set up a lot of gears over the past few years now so if you haven't seen those posts, they may be just as helpful as a video.

They are not all that difficult so don't be intimidated, just be thorough, clean and use the correct tools to ensure proper preload on both the pinion and the carrier bearings. I also highly recommend making up some set-up bearings which will save you some time and frustration for certain. Seeing what you've accomplished thus far on the XJ's, I don't think you will have any issues with gears.

Thanks again for following along and for the flattering comments.

Thank you for the kind words as well! I just watched your 2 part video on the Ford F-150 re-gear. That was awesome. I’ll have to re-visit some of your longer posts as well when you were doing similar work. The only particular thing is that the 8.25 rear end has an adjustable cam shaped lobe (I don’t know what they’re actually called) to help you set the backlash. It actually seems easier, I just need to pick up the tool to do this.

I have an XJ on 31s that went from 3.55 to 4.10, and I can tell you its absolutely worth the effort.

Agreed. Our first Jeep was a 1991 XJ that I ran 31's and after going to 4.10's it was a completely different vehicle, this was my wife's daily driver. Later in both mine and my son's ZJ's we went to 4.56's with our 32" tires and they were awesome both on and off-road.

That’s great to hear. Where did you most notice the improvement? I take my Jeep 1-2 hours away to go camping/hiking/biking etc regularly so I do a lot of highway driving. Currently on the stock gears, the transmission does a lot of hunting/downshifting on the highway.

If you have some stub shafts, remove the front shafts and just put stub shafts in the unit bearings and reinstall. You’ll want to put something in the axle tube to prevent gear oil from coming out. Doing this will prevent the carrier from spinning and you can diagnose if it’s in the third.

I’ll third 4.10s on 31s, thats what i have in my stock jeep.

Good idea. I don’t have extra stub shafts around though but I’ll keep this in the back of my mind as I go down the troubleshooting path.

 

[SilverJimmy]

I am glad to hear your first trip towing the Jeep was a success and went well. Looking forward to hearing about many more as there are a lot of roads out there to conquer.

Mike, our trip did go well, but it was on Friday the 13th, so it wasn’t perfect! We spent the night of the 12th/13th just outside of Kingman off I-40. At that exit is a heavy truck lube/tire shop that has the required “grease monkeys” slinging grease on every surface possible. I’m thinking I must have run over about 1/2 a pound of black moly grease that had fallen off a trucks 5th wheel plate. Got it with the right front on the GMC, grease all over the passenger side sheet metal, rear duals also got lubricated properly at a high speed too. Then the greaseball was picked up by the front 35” BFG on the Jeep and was spread all over the right side of my used to be white Jeep! From the front bumper, inside both wheel wells, on the windows, door handles, even on the roof, a nice free anti-corrosion treatment. Two huge blobs were attached to my rear fender flare! Of course I didn’t notice the grease until we got onto the El Mirage Lake. If you’ve never been to El Mirage you don’t know about ElMo dust. It’s very fine alkaline dust that attaches itself to every surface possible. So now all the grease is a abrasive slurry like fine lapping compound! About the only thing I can think of worse than this mess would be to run over a full can of Never-Seize! I knew this was going to be fun to try to clean this mess up, but I also knew it was best done at home!
Weekend at the lakebed was great, lots of good racing, even had a streamliner go over 300 mph, first time someone that fast in over 20 years. Then while driving home on Monday had a check engine light come on while climbing the last hill before Needles, Ca. I kept a Solus Edge when I retired, so I scanned it and got a P0402 code, EGR solenoid not behaving. Called my go to diesel guy, old customer who kept my tool trucks on the road for me. He said clear it and just get it home, should be ok, just watch temps, etc….
Had to clear it once more on drive home, and now it hasn’t come back on.
Now comes the point of my tale. My guy recommended going with a EGR delete. Wondering what your view and/or opinion is of this? Right now is when I really wish you had been my customer back in my toolman days cuz I would love to drop my GMC off with you with the agreement that you would fix everything that YOU thought was needed to make my GMC the best it could be, and I would just pay you what it took, no questions asked. Then I would happily take it by my GMC dealership to show them how the General should have built it in the first place!!!!
Now that I think about it, I seem to remember that you flat towed your Jeep behind your motor home all the way to the MidWest for a paint job, just to make sure it was done right. Thanks to you I now have a flat towable Jeep, and Salt Lake is a lot closer than Wisconsin…..

 

[zmotorsports]

That’s great to hear. Where did you most notice the improvement? I take my Jeep 1-2 hours away to go camping/hiking/biking etc regularly so I do a lot of highway driving. Currently on the stock gears, the transmission does a lot of hunting/downshifting on the highway.

Sorry for the delayed response, been away from the computer for a few days.

I noticed the biggest gains in mountain driving followed by highway driving, both on pavement. Going up mountain passes and/or canyons I noticed the pep was back and it didn't struggle to pick up speed after braking for a curve or corner. Also the car just seemed happier on the grades without struggling so much. Similar with the interstate/highway driving, like you I was frustrated with the hunting between gears just going over the small "rollers" in the highway and by getting the mechanical leverage back that I lost from the larger diameter tires as well as the weight was a vast improvement. My mileage actually came back slightly as well. Not back to where it was stock because with the higher suspension it created more frontal area and more drag under the vehicle and also the added weight from the larger tires and weight we were carrying while exploring but it corrected slightly from not having that mechanical advantage of being properly geared. Once the gear change all of that seemed to fall right back into place. I have always been a proponent of re-gearing a vehicle to get the proper mechanical advantage back after doing extensive suspension work and adding more weight, both sprung as well as unsprung weight.

As far as off-road, the improvement was negligible after regearing. I did notice that when I was in 2 HI it seemed to have more power and pep but once in 4 LO with the transfer case's gear reduction the re-gear was less noticeable.

Glad to hear the video was helpful.

 

[zmotorsports]

Mike, our trip did go well, but it was on Friday the 13th, so it wasn’t perfect! We spent the night of the 12th/13th just outside of Kingman off I-40. At that exit is a heavy truck lube/tire shop that has the required “grease monkeys” slinging grease on every surface possible. I’m thinking I must have run over about 1/2 a pound of black moly grease that had fallen off a trucks 5th wheel plate. Got it with the right front on the GMC, grease all over the passenger side sheet metal, rear duals also got lubricated properly at a high speed too. Then the greaseball was picked up by the front 35” BFG on the Jeep and was spread all over the right side of my used to be white Jeep! From the front bumper, inside both wheel wells, on the windows, door handles, even on the roof, a nice free anti-corrosion treatment. Two huge blobs were attached to my rear fender flare! Of course I didn’t notice the grease until we got onto the El Mirage Lake. If you’ve never been to El Mirage you don’t know about ElMo dust. It’s very fine alkaline dust that attaches itself to every surface possible. So now all the grease is a abrasive slurry like fine lapping compound! About the only thing I can think of worse than this mess would be to run over a full can of Never-Seize! I knew this was going to be fun to try to clean this mess up, but I also knew it was best done at home!
Weekend at the lakebed was great, lots of good racing, even had a streamliner go over 300 mph, first time someone that fast in over 20 years. Then while driving home on Monday had a check engine light come on while climbing the last hill before Needles, Ca. I kept a Solus Edge when I retired, so I scanned it and got a P0402 code, EGR solenoid not behaving. Called my go to diesel guy, old customer who kept my tool trucks on the road for me. He said clear it and just get it home, should be ok, just watch temps, etc….
Had to clear it once more on drive home, and now it hasn’t come back on.
Now comes the point of my tale. My guy recommended going with a EGR delete. Wondering what your view and/or opinion is of this? Right now is when I really wish you had been my customer back in my toolman days cuz I would love to drop my GMC off with you with the agreement that you would fix everything that YOU thought was needed to make my GMC the best it could be, and I would just pay you what it took, no questions asked. Then I would happily take it by my GMC dealership to show them how the General should have built it in the first place!!!!
Now that I think about it, I seem to remember that you flat towed your Jeep behind your motor home all the way to the MidWest for a paint job, just to make sure it was done right. Thanks to you I now have a flat towable Jeep, and Salt Lake is a lot closer than Wisconsin…..

Sounds like a fun trip other than the grease being slung up all over and the DTC code. I see that P0402 code quite a lot on the Duramax's. Many times they can be cleared and seldom ever come back. It requires a certain set of parameters for the code to set and refers to excessive exhaust gas flow when the EGR valve is commanded on. This is usually caused by a dirty sensor, dirty valve pintle or in some cases a MAF sensor that can be mis-reporting.

I am a fan of EGR delete or EGR block-off but many states that have emissions testing are now checking for these modifications so it may or may not be a viable option. Personally, EGR has no place on a diesel engine but unfortunately the manufacturers have had to do and add things to meet the strict EPA requirements, that's a WHOLE other topic. EGR in a gas engine doesn't seem to be as troublesome as in a diesel engine where there is much more carbon involved. In my mind, dumping gritty (carbon) exhaust gases back into an already carbon filled diesel combustion chamber just does not seem logical to me.

If you do a delete or a block off then you need to either turn off the function in EFI Live or use a fingerstick to report back to the ECM the correct resistance or you will continue to get DTC's. There are a ton of posts on various forums about where to purchase these fingersticks from or how to turn off the EGR function using EFI Live.

Hope you have a lot more road trips with the rig now that you've got it all set up for flat-towing.

 

[zmotorsports]

I'm still not getting around the best due to my foot issue and this **** is going on 5+ weeks now. I am REALLY getting behind in the shop and going out of my freaking mind because the wife and son won't let me go out and do anything.

Yesterday before the wife arrived home I did sneak out into the yard and hurried and run the mower around it. After the rain we had all weekend it really greened up and was getting quite long. I didn't trim or edge it however so it doesn't look as good as usual but just walked around it once (about all I could) with the walk-behind Snapper then hopped on the Toro ZTR and finished it off.

 

[LXCam]

That injury **** really gets to you when it’s not in your blood to sit down. Been dealing with my own limitations for a while and it drives me batshit crazy not getting things done in a timely manner. And to have my wife and daughter say things like “it’s your body telling you to take a break” REALLY ADDS TO THE FRUSTRATION!!

 

[zmotorsports]

That injury **** really gets to you when it’s not in your blood to sit down. Been dealing with my own limitations for a while and it drives me batshit crazy not getting things done in a timely manner. And to have my wife and daughter say things like “it’s your body telling you to take a break” REALLY ADDS TO THE FRUSTRATION!!

I completely agree Cam. I hate sitting around and feeling like a slug. I had a couple people call or text me over the weekend asking where on my list they were now and how much longer until I could get to them into the shop and I hated telling them I was behind schedule. My wife was pissed that I didn't just tell them I had some health issues I'm dealing with and wouldn't be able to get to them. I had hoped this would all be behind me by now and I would be playing catch-up in the shop but that's not the case. My wife and son simply don't get it that by telling people to pound sand and that I wouldn't be able to get to their projects, I was basically saying "I don't want your money" and I was turning money away.

 

[LXCam]

My work life doesn’t allow for it’ll get done when it’s done. But about a half dozen years ago I was flat out upfront on the car builds, it’ll be done when it’s done

Heck my kids car was in my Arizona shop for five months and in that time I only found five days of wrench time. But it’s home now finally. I’ll text you a couple vids later, you’ll like it

 

[Seagoon]

I completely agree Cam. I hate sitting around and feeling like a slug. I had a couple people call or text me over the weekend asking where on my list they were now and how much longer until I could get to them into the shop and I hated telling them I was behind schedule. My wife was pissed that I didn't just tell them I had some health issues I'm dealing with and wouldn't be able to get to them. I had hoped this would all be behind me by now and I would be playing catch-up in the shop but that's not the case. My wife and son simply don't get it that by telling people to pound sand and that I wouldn't be able to get to their projects, I was basically saying "I don't want your money" and I was turning money away.

Sorry Mike but it's you that's not getting it. It doesn't matter that you are turning money away - you are ensuring that you and your wife will be able to enjoy a lot more time together in the future because you will be fit enough to enjoy it.
I understand your frustration but you have to change your mindset. They are totally right and are only doing what's best for you because they know so well that you are too pig-headed to look after yourself.
Please don't feel that I am insulting you in any way - I admire your work ethic tremendously. I am just trying to help you to look at the situation from a different angle.

 

[zmotorsports]

Sorry Mike but it's you that's not getting it. It doesn't matter that you are turning money away - you are ensuring that you and your wife will be able to enjoy a lot more time together in the future because you will be fit enough to enjoy it.
I understand your frustration but you have to change your mindset. They are totally right and are only doing what's best for you because they know so well that you are too pig-headed to look after yourself.
Please don't feel that I am insulting you in any way - I admire your work ethic tremendously. I am just trying to help you to look at the situation from a different angle.

Well that's all I have to say about that....

I can't believe you think I'm pig-headed. I've heard that a lot lately and don't see it.