Are used tools loosing their value these days?

[elidas]

While the gentleman in question may be in good health, I'm going to burst some bubbles and inform you that 70 is old.

I'd better be carefull. I just turned 70.

 

[jd_1138]

Sounds like his daughter is a jerk. But then again, he's a man and letting her do it, so it's on him. I'd just keep my tools if I were him, and when the man upstairs calls me home, they can give it away, auction it off, etc..

I know guys in their 80s who can still rebuild an engine if they had to.

 

[dogdog]

use tools actually gain value in some market, just check Craigslist for some of the posting.

 

[hailwood1965]

I bought a set of short OEX wrenches in 1997 off my local SnapOn dealer, OEX80 through 0EX440. Part of the set came as a 5/16" through 3/4" boxed set, the dealer had taken out the 1/2" to warranty a broken wrench for someone recently and he cut me a deal on the open package, the rest were sold as individual wrenches. The total cost was $1,160. The 1/4", 9/32, 11/32, 15/32, and sizes 13/16" and over were all sold individually then. I was never completely happy that various sizes in the set had to be an older series with the old logo since they dropped a few of the sizes over the years. Try finding a 15/32" on the truck today.
I would have preferred the set to be all one series, not half OEX and OEX-B wrenches. Over the years I've accumulated both series of wrenches in all the sizes made, if for no other reason then to complete both sets. They rarely get used these days.

A current 21pc set of the same wrenches shows as $1460, and they dropped a couple of sizes over the years.

Your neighbor sounds like a guy I used to go fishing with years ago, he'd do anything to get out of the house, she henpecked him to death over the slightest little things. When she died, his daughters both took over. They had all his stuff sold or given away years before he ever showed any signs of decline. It got so bad he used to ask me to keep things because he never knew what they were going to give away next.
They felt since he was 'old' he should act his age and live like a retired old man. He blew his stack one year when both daughters bought him fancy canes for Christmas. I never once saw him walk with a cane, or need one. He outlived both daughters, (58 and 72), passing away at close to 100 still in living his own house. The worst thing kids can do to a parent is make them less active or take away their hobbies or pastimes.

I do find that selling things lately is like pulling teeth, everyone wants it for almost nothing.
My old boss retired recently and is planning a move to FL on some golf course. He had been trying to sell his tool box, most of his specialty tools, and his wood working tools but got almost no response from CL or FB. His box it tiny, only a KRL722 combo, no lockers, no side cabs in red. He put the box up for $2K but got no takers. He had a few guys come out and look but one wanted to make payments, another wanted to trade for work, and one wanted it for $500. He paid over $8k for it around 2005 or so but he never worked out of that box, he bought it then moved up to a managers job and took the box home. It sat in his garage ever since covered in blankets unused.
He had more box than tools as long as I knew him. But large boxes are better security since they're not likely to be just hauled away in a pickup truck.
If that KRL1001/1201 set were mine, I'd be looking for $5500 or so for it.
Like anyone, I'd love to find one for cheap and I'm sure there are a few out there to be had for a song but finding one that's not been abused or worn out is tough. How some guys tear up tool boxes is beyond me. Aside from many a roller slide going bad on a heavy drawer once in a while, things like dents and scratches are just a sign of carelessness.
I strongly prefer the older boxes though if only for the fact that its what I'm accustomed to.

When I left my last mechanics job, most every guy in that shop had at least a $60k loan with Snapon, and some newer guys were even higher. We called it tool box envy, one guy would buy a monster box, then the next guy had to one up him, until every last box in the shop looked like an apartment building. One guy blew $42k on a monster tool box. I couldn't ever imagine being in debt that much just for my box. Let alone at only 23 years old. From my experiences, most techs spend about 60% of what they make on their tools and tool box over their first 20 or so years wrenching. About half of them never do stick with it long enough to pay off their tool debt and end up just walking away from it all.

I've got a buddy who paid over $25k for a four bank Snapon box in the 2000's and has been trying to sell it now for 10 years for a third of that but hasn't had a single taker or so much as one person show up to look or buy it. He bought it to keep his baseball card and coin collection in which soon outgrew the box.

In the Midwest, here, $42k is house. Not a nice house but a house.

 

[silkman]

Tell her I'm after two flexheads

THLF72 - 1/4" long 21cm red - $141
SHF80A - 1/2" standard! 45cm red - $241

Would gladly pay $130 shipped to Athens, Greece.

In the daughter's defence, Ebay now forces on you some "global shipping programme" **** with taxes and mandatory customs which makes shipping rates astronomical... Cant list anything internationally without it, yes there is global interest for snapon but that thing has killed it...

 

[hoarder]

In the Midwest, here, $42k is house. Not a nice house but a house.

The problem with that is that you can't take your house to work and park it next to your work area.
With as much as guys have invested in their tools, they need to be able to lock them up in something super secure when they go home at night. I'd venture to guess that most dealer techs have well over $150k invested in their tools and box after a few years in the business.
Its not hard to have $30k wrapped up in just diagnostic equipment and software these days, maybe more if your working on multiple brands.

The cost of tools vs what the job pays these days is why I got out of it years ago. Tools and boxes have tripled or more in price but mechanic wages haven't budged in 25 years around here. Dealer labor rates are over $200/hr, but techs are making less than they did in the 90's. Its no wonder there's a shortage of top notch techs out there these days.

 

[CHRIII]

I would be surprised if the current interaction between the father and his daughter is the first like that. When ever it started, it should have been nipped in the bud. But that's in the past and it may be too late for him to set the necessary boundaries in their relationship. I hope it works out well for him.

On the being 'old' discussion, I think it's not the years it's the mileage. I'm in my 70's and my problem is that my mind apparently thinks I'm in my 30's or so and is writing checks I'm having problems cashing.

 

[yardiron]

Tell her I'm after two flexheads

THLF72 - 1/4" long 21cm red - $141
SHF80A - 1/2" standard! 45cm red - $241

Would gladly pay $130 shipped to Athens, Greece.

In the daughter's defence, Ebay now forces on you some "global shipping programme" **** with taxes and mandatory customs which makes shipping rates astronomical... Cant list anything internationally without it, yes there is global interest for snapon but that thing has killed it...

Sorry, no cushion grip tools in the lot.
Most of the ratchets are chrome handled or have the earlier square handles.
Personally I've never been a big fan of anything but a chrome handle, in tight quarters the added thickness of a plastic handle meant skinned knuckles. I think I've only got two in my whole set, a pair of flex head 3/8" ratchets that I used for spark plugs with a long extension and swivel plug socket.

What it looks like right now is that she pretty much just dumped the tools here with no intention of doing anything else, they put the house up for sale now and apparently she already had a place where she planned to take him. She donated nearly all the furniture that she couldn't sell at the one yardsale, dumped most of his clothes off at GW, and loaded all the tools into my car trailer and left. I don't even have a way to get hold of her other than the old guy's cell phone that now goes unanswered.
My trailer has 15 or so large Rubbermaid tubs full of his tools, plus the front bench is stacked full of boxed items like compression testers drills, impact guns etc.
All of the rechargeable tools are 9.6 and 12v tools, all need batteries but the tools look almost new. I realized they're obsolete since their all NiCad powered but it seems such a waste. I have a pair of those old CT100 3/8" impact guns myself and it was always just the right size and power for bench work, but the batteries are too pricey these days. He's got three that look new in the original boxes, plus a couple drills, (one 9.6, one 12v), and the work lights to match.

I put the two OEXL wrench sets on CL last week here for $300 each, 3/8"-1" and 10mm to 21mm but only got $25 to $50 offers from dirtbags wanting to steal them. If that's all they're worth, they can go in my box and sit there as spares. I took the ad down till maybe things get a bit better. As far as I'm concerned CL here is dead, nothing sells, even free ads don't seem to get any replies.

I picked up a free SK top box that was listed for FREE for a month there. I can't imagine why no one grabbed it other than the paint is faded. I'll clean it up a bit and sort out some of the small tools into this box for now. The plan is to attached it to the bench in the trailer later down the road. It looks like a Waterloo box, very similar to an old Mac box. It used to be bright red, its faded to sort of the color of an old Allis Chalmers tractor from a red that looks the same as the old Mac boxes were. Along with it came an unknown box, no name at all but very similar construction, if not a bit heavier metal. The second chest has a drop front. Both had their keys taped to the bottom of a drawer.
The third is a Snap-on KRA59/380? combo that's a bit rough but for free, I had to go get it. I had to slide my boat on the ground and take my boat trailer to get it, it even had some tools still in it. (Some Craftsman and Cambell Housfield air tools, a few Craftsman ratchets, and a drawer full of feeler gauges. The key is gone from the roll cab but the top lock is fine but had the key broke off in the lock. The guy giving it away was giving up on the business and moving to FL.
In the end, they weren't free since I probably burned 1/4 tank of gas to go get them though.
All are well worn and dirty but all are completely usable as they are. I will take the time to clean, polish and maybe even paint the SK box, plus make some drawer liners up but these will hold some of the loose tools she left in tubs in the trailer. All of which have to end up down in the basement here if I ever intend to use my trailer again.

What I don't get is how two ads for tool boxes went unanswered in the free section for over a week here, one was there nearly a month. I realize they're not new but all they need to do is hold tools, they don't have to be pretty. Anything is better than keeping them in tubs outside in the the trailer. Now I need to keep an eye out for a pair of bottom roll cabs for the two smaller top chests so they don't have to sit on a cart or bench down stairs.

The last box is a newer Craftsman roller chest that I bought Sunday at the flea market for $25. The guy said he had been asking $50 but had no offers. I said I'd take it for $25, he balked a bit but took it. I had to hump it across the field to my car.
Its no where near the box the other three are but for $25, its cheap storage space.

In all, all of these won't come close to the amount of space those tools occupied in his KRL1001/KRL1201 combo but they'll be a good home for the hand tools for now to free up my trailer. I just won't be able to lay out all the wrenches like he had them on fancy wrench racks, they'll have to just lay loose in the drawers in these boxes and sockets will have to go on separate rails and lay flat or in the top of the chests for now. There's at least 40 sets of sockets counting all the 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4" standard and metric, shallow, medium and deep sets, plus all the various lengths of torx, triple square, Allen, and Robertson sockets. Plus all the specialty hub sockets.
Then there's a full set of everything in impact too. Plus there's double sets in Mac too, but the Mac sockets are limited to mid depth impact and chrome, in 3/8" and a few deep impact sets. There's only half as much Mac as there is Snap-on. plus some older SK sockets, wrenched and ratchets. I intend to itemize everything but it would take pages to list it all here.

 

[yardiron]

After carrying the three top chests into the basement, I just realized that the second chest is nearly identical to a Stack-On chest I have here that I found about 6 years ago, only minus the stamped in logo. Both are an odd 24 7/8" wide vs 26" wide for Snap on and SK chests.

 

[Ricky Joe]

My father has in the last year put a roof on and built a deck for other people. He still works, remodels and repairs houses. He will be 90 come September.
I have had a 14 piece Snap-On short wrench set on eBay for a couple months now, no bite at $160. Since this thread started, I listed a Bug-O system starting bid 99 cents. No takers. It was over 20,000 new in 1981. As my old friend, now deceased, used to say, “Splain me dat!”

 

[AA/FC]

SAE tools are a hard sell, everyone wants metric... and new toolboxes are bought on payments.

Every time I buy a new tool, I buy it in both metric and SAE. I don't get to decide which tool I want to use, the fastener decides that for me..... and I need to have whatever tool the fastener requires in order for me to work on that particular vehicle/machine/thing.

 

[m6z]

My father has in the last year put a roof on and built a deck for other people. He still works, remodels and repairs houses. He will be 90 come September.
I have had a 14 piece Snap-On short wrench set on eBay for a couple months now, no bite at $160. Since this thread started, I listed a Bug-O system starting bid 99 cents. No takers. It was over 20,000 new in 1981. As my old friend, now deceased, used to say, “Splain me dat!”

link for the Snap-On short wrench set?

 

[m6z]

The problem with that is that you can't take your house to work and park it next to your work area.
With as much as guys have invested in their tools, they need to be able to lock them up in something super secure when they go home at night. I'd venture to guess that most dealer techs have well over $150k invested in their tools and box after a few years in the business.
Its not hard to have $30k wrapped up in just diagnostic equipment and software these days, maybe more if your working on multiple brands.

The cost of tools vs what the job pays these days is why I got out of it years ago. Tools and boxes have tripled or more in price but mechanic wages haven't budged in 25 years around here. Dealer labor rates are over $200/hr, but techs are making less than they did in the 90's. Its no wonder there's a shortage of top notch techs out there these days.

$30k in diagnostic equipment? What exactly would that entail?

 

[robert6715]

link for the Snap-On short wrench set?

Great minds think alike. I looked & can't find it.

 

[dnschmidt]

$30k in diagnostic equipment? What exactly would that entail?

A snap on Zeus. A complete Pico Scope Setup. Subscriptions to GM, Ford, Toyota and Honda and possibly Chrysler. Throw in a top of the line Autel or Launch for the foreign stuff and that should pretty much take care of 30K.

 

[Ricky Joe]

link for the Snap-On short wrench set?

I don’t know how to send a link. Check Mullerick for seller name.

 

[robert6715]

wrench set

Snap-On wrench set | eBay

<p>Snap-On wrench set. </p><p>Snap-On short SAE set dated from 1983, lightly used, sizes 1/4”, 9/32”, 5/16”, 11/32”, 3/8”, 7/16”, 1/2” 9/16”, 5/8”, 11/16”, & 3/4”. There is a very faint mark on each wrench that I can’t quite make out, looks like “Ed”. I tried to show the marks on the open end...

www.ebay.com

 

[GTO]

OP, where in NJ are you ?

 

[freeisforme]

I've seen more and more full sets go unsold lately at really good prices yet I've seen a few go way higher than they should have.
Here's a https://www.ebay.com/itm/SNAP-ON-SOEXM710-10-Pc-12-Pt-Flank-Drive-Plus-Combination-Wrench-Set-10-19mm-/165516661257 -
Here's a set of wrench holders someone bought for $374?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125255819622

 

[ChevyEFI]

There must be more to the story. Is she doing local pick up only or shipping smaller items? Granted, the used market for SAE tools is lower than for metric

Selling stuff on eBay is a skill. <snip> to get top dollar for used stuff requires work.

This.

There are probably lots of good tips on the 60+ messages I haven't read. But I can get more $ where I live than in a rural area. Or even more in CA where I have family than where I live.

SAE is dead. eBay requires skill and a veteran account helps. If she has a new account, took poor pics, doesn't know how to keyword load the description, or complicates things with payment or shipping or lack thereof hurdles, he's not getting $290 fpr those wrenches lile the top sellers with 10000 feedback. Also, the older logo atuff doesn't bring what the ~86-up logo brings.

Many sellers use the newest PN and price that come up on the SO site, even though it's not the same tool. It sounds like she's not even doing that.

Not every means-well family member knows how to sell.

 

[freeisforme]

A snap on Zeus. A complete Pico Scope Setup. Subscriptions to GM, Ford, Toyota and Honda and possibly Chrysler. Throw in a top of the line Autel or Launch for the foreign stuff and that should pretty much take care of 30K.

You forgot a GM Tech 1A, and Tech 2, a Ford NGS (up to around 2005) and IDS system for newer than 2005 vehicles, For Mopar, a DRB, DRBII, DRBIII, and wiTech. None of which are cheap to own but pretty much a necessity in a dealership or any serious repair shop.

I paid $3,200 for a new Ford NGS in 1999, and that didn't include any updates. The price has come down a bit as the platform is less and less common but the last i checked they still get $3k for a new one with the most recent software. This is probably the cheapest of group listed above. A Snap-on Zeus is over $10k for the base unit. An OTC Encore will run you $3k for the base unit, then you need the software and subscriptions, the OTC Genisis is around $1,500, plus software and updates every year.
Then if the shop your at don't have manuals or Alldata, your looking at that subscription as well. (Most around here pretty much assume the tech will find the info on his own phone when needed and do nothing in the line of supplying manuals or tech info.)

Having all the OEM tools isn't absolutely a requirement unless you work in a dealer with those brands Most shops supply one for the whole shop, since you get paid flat rate, and most shops have 20+ guys, waiting to get your hands on the one dealer supplied diag tool can cost you a ton of money.
I really don't see how guys do it these days, the wages in dealer shops hasn't increased, its gone down over the past 20 years. The last big dealer that paid well closed up 24 years ago and I never looked back. I worked for another 6 years for a private shop but they too closed up when the owner sold the location to someone who built a strip mall. When I last worked as an A rate tech I was at $28.90/hr in 2007 and low man in large private shop. In my dealership days I did mostly transmission overhauls, at the private shop it was mostly electrical work and driveability concerns. I just saw an ad for a local dealer looking to higher trained techs for $15.50/$17.00/$18.50/hr flat rate. With what tools and gas costs now its no wonder there's no takers for those jobs. Most all brands used to have really good training that kept guys up to date on new models and new systems, most techs went to factory training for a couple weeks each year. By the end of the 90's, that was gone, techs were on their own for training. Depending on the brand, some training was available at work through a closed networks, (some dealers would pay you a few hours a week to sit and watch videos, but most would not. Many required you do your training time at home on your own time.

Then you have the ASE certifications, which for a long time meant something, but slowly dealers and employers quit paying and guys quit bothering since most OEM dealers wouldn't recognize ASE. For the aftermarket, ASE stayed the recognized certification, yet almost no employer would pay for the tests even 20 years ago. At that point just a basic master tech recertification test lot could cost a tech hundreds, for me, I had all of them at one point, but the dealer refused to pay for recert tests so I let it go in the 90's. I had both car and truck certs, plus automotive machine shop, L1 and L2, and all the autobody and collision certs.
Toward the end of the 90's, they even expected us to supply our own transportation to any factory training that still existed, which was almost always hundreds of miles away. The last factory training I took was at GM school, which was a four day stay 300 miles away. That shop, an AC/Delco service center, gave me a car, arranged for a motel, and paid all expenses. I didn't mind going if it didn't cost me money plus lose me a weeks paycheck. That was in 2005. The following year they expected us to pay out of pocket. No one went. A year later they were no longer factory affiliated with GM. I actually had one shop that told me not to plan anything for my vacation because I needed to use that time for training if I were to maintain my factory certifications. I made plans but they including me loading my box on a roll back.
I can't wait to see what happens when they expect a bunch of minimum wage techs to work on EV's and hybrids.

These days we have a handful of smaller dealers that pay near minimum, I can't imagine how guys afford tools at those wages, plus they're paying half their health insurance, their uniforms, and paying for their own training and testing. I think most guys get a look at their first few paychecks and bail out and go get a job that don't require such an investment. .
25 years ago companies were already requiring writers and managers have college degrees, now a few are requiring it for their techs too. It started with a few programs that issued young techs a 'Degree in automotive technologies" for about a $3k per year, five year training deal where they went to school for half the year and worked for 10 weeks each year in the shop that sponsored them till they graduated. They then got out with a guarantee of a C rate tech position at $18.75/hr flat rate with a basic set of tools. About 1 in 25 stayed and actually became decent techs, most bailed out after their first 6 months. Usually one good hot summer in a shop weeded out those who weren't going to make it. I saw it as buying a job for $15k that paid you less than you would make after expenses than the local fast food joint.

Snap-on dealers come and go pretty regularly, none seem to last more than a few years. The days of the life long Snap-on dealer seem to be gone. We haven't seen a Mac guy around here in at least 25 years, Cornwall gave it a shot for a while but those trucks have been gone for about 20 years, There was a few SK trucks, but they were pretty much short lived ventures. There's one Matco dealer that's been around now for about 15-20 years or so now, but Matco isn't the same as Snap-on. Each brand has their niche, for Matco it always seemed to be a short list of specialty hand tools, and cheaper tool boxes.
I'd have liked to have bought a Macsimizer three bank set back in the day but there were no dealers. My last box was a Snap-on KRL1004 with a twin top hutches and an SS top. It wasn't big enough. It cost $24k new in 2003 and was barely big enough then. Now that I'm retired I'd love to sell it. Its been sitting covered up in my garage since 2004 after the the shop I was working at didn't allow larger boxes.
I'd let it go for $8k if anyone wanted it for cash, or I'd consider trading it for a pair of smaller boxes that take up less space in a garage.
A top/bottom KRL1001/1201 like the OP mentioned would be the perfect downsizing trade.

I'm far from ready to sell my tools but being retired from wrenching means I don't need the massive security that a big box gives.

Hearing stories about older guys ending up with nothing in some senior home like the OP's neighbor makes me glad I don't have kids.
I've watched it happen over and over again around here. Kids go to school, get a high paid job far away, then suddenly worrying about an elderly parent back home and they push their way in and force the parent to either move or go into some miserable assisted living center.
In some cases it may be the right answer but for me, I'd go crazy without my tools, a welder or two, and my boat.
I am seeing more and more guys starting to 'fail' at a lot younger ages than those that came before. More and more guys are in 'bad' shape in their 50's. Alzheimer's, Dementia, and Parkinson's seems to be more and more prevalent lately for some reason. I've got buddies who are in homes now for 10 years with major issues since their late 50's, many have passed. More than half the guys I worked with in the late 90's are gone now, most not even making it to retirement age. Yet I know many older guys still going strong into their late 80's.

 

[dchawk81]

I haven't placed a bid on eBay in YEARS. That's probably why it didn't sell. Nobody wants to mess around.

Figure out the price you need, add modest or better yet free shipping, make it a Buy It Now and put it in the post immediately once it's bought.

Stuff will move. She's just doing it wrong.

 

[dnschmidt]

You forgot a GM Tech 1A, and Tech 2, a Ford NGS (up to around 2005) and IDS system for newer than 2005 vehicles, For Mopar, a DRB, DRBII, DRBIII, and wiTech. None of which are cheap to own but pretty much a necessity in a dealership or any serious repair shop.

I paid $3,200 for a new Ford NGS in 1999, and that didn't include any updates. The price has come down a bit as the platform is less and less common but the last i checked they still get $3k for a new one with the most recent software. This is probably the cheapest of group listed above. A Snap-on Zeus is over $10k for the base unit. An OTC Encore will run you $3k for the base unit, then you need the software and subscriptions, the OTC Genisis is around $1,500, plus software and updates every year.
Then if the shop your at don't have manuals or Alldata, your looking at that subscription as well. (Most around here pretty much assume the tech will find the info on his own phone when needed and do nothing in the line of supplying manuals or tech info.)

Having all the OEM tools isn't absolutely a requirement unless you work in a dealer with those brands Most shops supply one for the whole shop, since you get paid flat rate, and most shops have 20+ guys, waiting to get your hands on the one dealer supplied diag tool can cost you a ton of money.
I really don't see how guys do it these days, the wages in dealer shops hasn't increased, its gone down over the past 20 years. The last big dealer that paid well closed up 24 years ago and I never looked back. I worked for another 6 years for a private shop but they too closed up when the owner sold the location to someone who built a strip mall. When I last worked as an A rate tech I was at $28.90/hr in 2007 and low man in large private shop. In my dealership days I did mostly transmission overhauls, at the private shop it was mostly electrical work and driveability concerns. I just saw an ad for a local dealer looking to higher trained techs for $15.50/$17.00/$18.50/hr flat rate. With what tools and gas costs now its no wonder there's no takers for those jobs. Most all brands used to have really good training that kept guys up to date on new models and new systems, most techs went to factory training for a couple weeks each year. By the end of the 90's, that was gone, techs were on their own for training. Depending on the brand, some training was available at work through a closed networks, (some dealers would pay you a few hours a week to sit and watch videos, but most would not. Many required you do your training time at home on your own time.

Then you have the ASE certifications, which for a long time meant something, but slowly dealers and employers quit paying and guys quit bothering since most OEM dealers wouldn't recognize ASE. For the aftermarket, ASE stayed the recognized certification, yet almost no employer would pay for the tests even 20 years ago. At that point just a basic master tech recertification test lot could cost a tech hundreds, for me, I had all of them at one point, but the dealer refused to pay for recert tests so I let it go in the 90's. I had both car and truck certs, plus automotive machine shop, L1 and L2, and all the autobody and collision certs.
Toward the end of the 90's, they even expected us to supply our own transportation to any factory training that still existed, which was almost always hundreds of miles away. The last factory training I took was at GM school, which was a four day stay 300 miles away. That shop, an AC/Delco service center, gave me a car, arranged for a motel, and paid all expenses. I didn't mind going if it didn't cost me money plus lose me a weeks paycheck. That was in 2005. The following year they expected us to pay out of pocket. No one went. A year later they were no longer factory affiliated with GM. I actually had one shop that told me not to plan anything for my vacation because I needed to use that time for training if I were to maintain my factory certifications. I made plans but they including me loading my box on a roll back.
I can't wait to see what happens when they expect a bunch of minimum wage techs to work on EV's and hybrids.

These days we have a handful of smaller dealers that pay near minimum, I can't imagine how guys afford tools at those wages, plus they're paying half their health insurance, their uniforms, and paying for their own training and testing. I think most guys get a look at their first few paychecks and bail out and go get a job that don't require such an investment. .
25 years ago companies were already requiring writers and managers have college degrees, now a few are requiring it for their techs too. It started with a few programs that issued young techs a 'Degree in automotive technologies" for about a $3k per year, five year training deal where they went to school for half the year and worked for 10 weeks each year in the shop that sponsored them till they graduated. They then got out with a guarantee of a C rate tech position at $18.75/hr flat rate with a basic set of tools. About 1 in 25 stayed and actually became decent techs, most bailed out after their first 6 months. Usually one good hot summer in a shop weeded out those who weren't going to make it. I saw it as buying a job for $15k that paid you less than you would make after expenses than the local fast food joint.

Snap-on dealers come and go pretty regularly, none seem to last more than a few years. The days of the life long Snap-on dealer seem to be gone. We haven't seen a Mac guy around here in at least 25 years, Cornwall gave it a shot for a while but those trucks have been gone for about 20 years, There was a few SK trucks, but they were pretty much short lived ventures. There's one Matco dealer that's been around now for about 15-20 years or so now, but Matco isn't the same as Snap-on. Each brand has their niche, for Matco it always seemed to be a short list of specialty hand tools, and cheaper tool boxes.
I'd have liked to have bought a Macsimizer three bank set back in the day but there were no dealers. My last box was a Snap-on KRL1004 with a twin top hutches and an SS top. It wasn't big enough. It cost $24k new in 2003 and was barely big enough then. Now that I'm retired I'd love to sell it. Its been sitting covered up in my garage since 2004 after the the shop I was working at didn't allow larger boxes.
I'd let it go for $8k if anyone wanted it for cash, or I'd consider trading it for a pair of smaller boxes that take up less space in a garage.
A top/bottom KRL1001/1201 like the OP mentioned would be the perfect downsizing trade.

I'm far from ready to sell my tools but being retired from wrenching means I don't need the massive security that a big box gives.

Hearing stories about older guys ending up with nothing in some senior home like the OP's neighbor makes me glad I don't have kids.
I've watched it happen over and over again around here. Kids go to school, get a high paid job far away, then suddenly worrying about an elderly parent back home and they push their way in and force the parent to either move or go into some miserable assisted living center.
In some cases it may be the right answer but for me, I'd go crazy without my tools, a welder or two, and my boat.
I am seeing more and more guys starting to 'fail' at a lot younger ages than those that came before. More and more guys are in 'bad' shape in their 50's. Alzheimer's, Dementia, and Parkinson's seems to be more and more prevalent lately for some reason. I've got buddies who are in homes now for 10 years with major issues since their late 50's, many have passed. More than half the guys I worked with in the late 90's are gone now, most not even making it to retirement age. Yet I know many older guys still going strong into their late 80's.

Anybody that gets into automotive repair nowadays is NUTS, STUPID or both. If you're smart enough to repair a modern car you're smart enough to do something else that will not destroy your body and pay you peanuts. It's just a rotten deal all the way around compared to working in an air conditioned office. It's 114F in Phoenix today. Let's work our asses off, get greasy and dirty and get paid nothing in a non-air-conditioned shop. This ******** we see on the news every day is disgusting. Unemployment is at an all-time low and everybody's hiring. Yea, for **** jobs that pay nothing and you have to drive 50 miles each way to get to with gas being $6 a gallon. Whoopi **** what a deal!

 

[hoarder]

Anybody that gets into automotive repair nowadays is NUTS, STUPID or both. If you're smart enough to repair a modern car you're smart enough to do something else that will not destroy your body and pay you peanuts. It's just a rotten deal all the way around compared to working in an air conditioned office. It's 114F in Phoenix today. Let's work our asses off, get greasy and dirty and get paid nothing in a non-air-conditioned shop. This ******** we see on the news every day is disgusting. Unemployment is at an all-time low and everybody's hiring. Yea, for **** jobs that pay nothing and you have to drive 50 miles each way to get to with gas being $6 a gallon. Whoopi **** what a deal!

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees this.

There's a private shop that just opened up a couple years ago about a block from me out on the main highway. The guy bought a prime piece of real estate along a heavily traveled road and built the cheapest shop he could. Its a dark green un-insulated metal pole building with 6 garage bays and a 12x30 office and waiting room area. He put up a sign saying they service all makes and models. The owner was an electrician who tinkered with his hot rods on the side. He put ads in all the local free papers, CL and FB for A, B, and C rate techs, "Must have own tools". No benefits, techs have to buy and wash their uniforms, and the place doesn't have so much as a ceiling fan. The heat in the winter is one of those huge oil burning torpedo heaters.
I ran into him last week and he said he can't find guys who want to work. Hes paying $13, $15, and $17/hr for what he calls Experienced techs. He has a few guys in there that can maybe change oil but not much more. The place is a sweltering hot shithole. The owner is a screaming lunatic who rants and raves when something doesn't get fixed right by the Jiffy lube rejects he hires. 90% of all diag work is done by a roving service that goes shop to shop scanning cars for codes and handing the shop a 'recommendation list' of possible fixes. They charge customers $400 for that service. They sell tires, all offbrand tires from China. The tires are cheap but he charges $45 each to install and another $30 to dispose of the old ones, which in most cases he sells to a guy who does used tires at the fleamarket. His sign says $45/hr though, which gets him tons of work from unsuspecting car owners. What they don't realize is that it takes him 40 hours to do what a real tech could do in two or three. He's got a lot full of cars that never got picked up after customers couldn't or wouldn't pay.

All of this while the owner sits and watches horse racing on his TV in his air conditioned office.
All while trying to figure out why no one wants to work there.

Job wise around here its slim, there are thousands of low paying retail and restaurant type jobs, but nothing that pays more than $15-$17/hr. With how high the taxes are here , the cost of living these days, $17/hr doesn't cover your basic living expenses. a few local dealers have ads looking for techs but they top out at $15.50 these days. Less for body shop help. All work is flat rate and they only cover 50% of benefits.

 

[hoarder]

I haven't placed a bid on eBay in YEARS. That's probably why it didn't sell. Nobody wants to mess around.

Figure out the price you need, add modest or better yet free shipping, make it a Buy It Now and put it in the post immediately once it's bought.

Stuff will move. She's just doing it wrong.

If you don't do auction sales your items fall down on the list and don't get seen. Buy it Now items renew every 30 days, after the first day they're 20 pages down on the list. At least if you do a few auction sales, it gives buyers the chance to click on "Seller's other items".

If there's something I want, I bid or buy it depending on how its listed. I don't much care either way. Most of the BIN prices I see tend to be on the high side. Free shipping means nothing, its never FREE shipping unless the seller is an idiot. I certainly wouldn't expect to by a 40lb set of wrenches and have them shipped for free for a low purchase price.
I adjust my search to look for the lowest price + shipping. I find that many items I see by hitting 'Other items by this seller' didn't show up under the initial search for some reason. I've bought a lot of items this way that apparently weren't turning up in anyone's search.

 

[dchawk81]

If you don't do auction sales your items fall down on the list and don't get seen. Buy it Now items renew every 30 days, after the first day they're 20 pages down on the list. At least if you do a few auction sales, it gives buyers the chance to click on "Seller's other items".

If there's something I want, I bid or buy it depending on how its listed. I don't much care either way. Most of the BIN prices I see tend to be on the high side. Free shipping means nothing, its never FREE shipping unless the seller is an idiot. I certainly wouldn't expect to by a 40lb set of wrenches and have them shipped for free for a low purchase price.
I adjust my search to look for the lowest price + shipping. I find that many items I see by hitting 'Other items by this seller' didn't show up under the initial search for some reason. I've bought a lot of items this way that apparently weren't turning up in anyone's search.

Everything I buy I seek out specifically, buy it, and expect it to arrive in under a week. I don't play around.

I'm not the only one who doesn't want to spend a week bidding just to see if they win and then another week or two for it to actually arrive.

We're talking about tools, not my little pony figurines.

Free shipping is just the illusion of the buyer getting a break, and if it's a choice between two items, I'm going for the better deal. Amazon does it all the time and it works.

 

[hoarder]

Your likely more educated about what your buying than the many eBay buyers. Some of the questions I've had over the years left me dumbfounded.

For me, if I list something on ebay and IF I were to do free shipping, I'd have to bump the price up for the maximum the shipping could cost me. That's not fair to a buyer who may be right around the corner.

Tools though are pretty straight forward, they're either good or bad, take a pic, a basic description noting any scratches and such and what more can you say. I've never had much luck though with tools, other than Sears tools the better stuff is hit or miss unless I'm selling it for scrap prices.

I had four open box Snap On MT586 multi-meters, all came from a retired SO dealer, he found them in his inventory years after he retired and sold his truck. I listed them and got nothing but complaints on how old they were. The same model or a newer version of it was still being sold at that time. I had listed them at $50 each, they were originally $410 each when on the truck. Not a one got a bid. The model came out in the early 90's and ran in some version or another for 20 or so years. It was their top of the line model for years. They even had an anniversary edition in 1995.
My point was who cares if its a 5 or even 10 year old left over model at $50? They were brand new, in the original case and box. I got over 40 emails telling me its 'obsolete' and no longer functional. After 8 weeks I just tossed them aside and gave them away as Christmas presents one year. I kept one and it does pretty good for an obsolete meter.
I never knew a multi tester could become obsolete. All its uses for is to read volts, ohms, and frequency.
I really had thought at the time those would have gotten bid up pretty fast but they go zero attention.
I guess most would rather use the little free meters that HF gives away?

 

[redwrench60]

SAE dead? Anyone who thinks that lives a truly sheltered life. They pay no attention to the thousands of trucks, trailers, busses, RVs, boats, construction equipment, locomotives and railroad equipment, manufacturing facilities, machine shops, mines, factories and who knows what else that use SAE every day. There is a big huge wide world of industry out there not found under the hood of a Camry.

13 piece Snap-on SAE wrench sets for $99? Line em up I’ll buy all you got.

 

[yardiron]

SAE dead? Anyone who thinks that lives a truly sheltered life. They pay no attention to the thousands of trucks, trailers, busses, RVs, boats, construction equipment, locomotives and railroad equipment, manufacturing facilities, machine shops, mines, factories and who knows what else that use SAE every day. There is a big huge wide world of industry out there not found under the hood of a Camry.

13 piece Snap-on SAE wrench sets for $99? Line em up I’ll buy all you got.

I say the same thing. I see far more SAE sizes than metric sizes. If all my box had was metric wrenches I'd be in big trouble when it comes to the hundreds of old tractors, RV's old boat motors, trailers, and heavy equipment I deal with.

I couldn't give a hoot about a Camry or any Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, or other import car. Much of the equipment in the fields here is old, well over 40 years old, some over 60 years old. The same with most boats and old trucks. As I look down my street, I think my 22 year old truck is the newest on the block.

I own both, you have to these days but we're decades away from not seeing anything that uses SAE sizes.

 

[Maui]

The daughter sounds like an entitled a$$hole.

 

[yardiron]

I just got done lugging all the tools down into my basement, all 18 tubs. I manhandled the first two down the steps then got smarter about it, I put a milk crate on a rope and a couple of planks through one basement window opening. I pulled the milk crate up to the window, fill it form outside and then let it slide down and dump into a bin full of old blankets. I did that four or five times, then went down and stacked up what I had dumped into the bin, and repeated it. My arms are still sore but they'd be a lot worse off if I had to carry it all down the steps. Now my work bench, tables saw, radial arm saw table, four carts, and the top of both chest freezers are covered in tools that I have to sort through. Those that are staying will get put into one of about four boxes down there, those that I don't need will get listed and sold.
I refilled one tub with all the small tools, small specialty tools that I have to look up to see what they were for. Most are likely GM or Mercedes tools, including a full set of Mercedes/Hazet 12pt long reach sockets likely for half shafts or CV axles. A few specialty socket sets that I believe are for motorcycle engine work, (he worked on HD and Yamaha at one place in the 90's).
For now, they're set aside till I get time to ID them all so i can list them properly.
I'm so sore after today my neck, shoulders and arms hurt just sitting here typing and moving the mouse around. With it all laid out, there's more here than I first thought, its not just what was in his box but stuff he had stored away on shelves too, plus all the shelves which she was kind enough to knock apart and loose all the clips. Now they need to be bolted together the hard way i guess.

There are stacks of automatic trans tools, and dozens of seal installers, lip seal guides, and all sorts of pullers, bushing drivers, and set up tools, mostly for GM, Ford, Mopar and Allison. Some are likely to old to be in any demand but I'm sure there's plenty of Ford 4R100 and GM 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions still out there. She also gave me a half dozen transmissions he had there which he rebuilt to have on hand. Mostly all Ford 4R70W and GM 4L60E models, plus a few C6 and TH350/400 models. Those are still in the trailer and are not coming in the house. Then there's all the garden tools, two more lawn mowers, and five 50lb bags of 10-10-10 fertilizer he used on his garden. She basically filled my 26ft car trailer and my back shed.
I did sell one of the 4L60E 4x4 transmissions today, if I knew how to get hold of him I'd sent him the money, but not her. I just hope I don't need that trailer anytime soon.

 

[silkman]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees this.

There's a private shop that just opened up a couple years ago about a block from me out on the main highway. The guy bought a prime piece of real estate along a heavily traveled road and built the cheapest shop he could. Its a dark green un-insulated metal pole building with 6 garage bays and a 12x30 office and waiting room area. He put up a sign saying they service all makes and models. The owner was an electrician who tinkered with his hot rods on the side. He put ads in all the local free papers, CL and FB for A, B, and C rate techs, "Must have own tools". No benefits, techs have to buy and wash their uniforms, and the place doesn't have so much as a ceiling fan. The heat in the winter is one of those huge oil burning torpedo heaters.
I ran into him last week and he said he can't find guys who want to work. Hes paying $13, $15, and $17/hr for what he calls Experienced techs. He has a few guys in there that can maybe change oil but not much more. The place is a sweltering hot shithole. The owner is a screaming lunatic who rants and raves when something doesn't get fixed right by the Jiffy lube rejects he hires. 90% of all diag work is done by a roving service that goes shop to shop scanning cars for codes and handing the shop a 'recommendation list' of possible fixes. They charge customers $400 for that service. They sell tires, all offbrand tires from China. The tires are cheap but he charges $45 each to install and another $30 to dispose of the old ones, which in most cases he sells to a guy who does used tires at the fleamarket. His sign says $45/hr though, which gets him tons of work from unsuspecting car owners. What they don't realize is that it takes him 40 hours to do what a real tech could do in two or three. He's got a lot full of cars that never got picked up after customers couldn't or wouldn't pay.

All of this while the owner sits and watches horse racing on his TV in his air conditioned office.
All while trying to figure out why no one wants to work there.

Job wise around here its slim, there are thousands of low paying retail and restaurant type jobs, but nothing that pays more than $15-$17/hr. With how high the taxes are here , the cost of living these days, $17/hr doesn't cover your basic living expenses. a few local dealers have ads looking for techs but they top out at $15.50 these days. Less for body shop help. All work is flat rate and they only cover 50% of benefits.

Looks like a FU situation... So out of interest, how much lets say a Toyota dealer charges customers for labour /hr ?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

$30k in diagnostic equipment? What exactly would that entail?

If you want to program and update modules, all makes all models, you'll be paying at least that per year in subscriptions alone. No hardware, internet, laptops, or per vehicle charges. Just the cost for the sub.

IIRC Keith for new level auto said benz was 30k a year. By themselves.


I have the bargain setup to diagnose cars. Two basic scan tools, and a pico. I would estimate my lab scope accessories like leads, clamps, transducers, break outs, exceed $2000. I'm cheap, and have the cheapo setup. Only 5k or so in scan tools. To update both would cost 1800 a year, for the data to do so. I keep just one current to save money.

I don't think you could buy $30,000 worth of non-electronic tools and be able to fix what I see in a regular month. I would estimate I probably spend a few hundred dollars on consumables per year. Out of my pocket the shop is not supplying

 

[m6z]

The costs are really eye opening to why there's a shortage of techs and why people are saying "It's going to get worse".

Back in the late 90's all of the certs, scan equipment(I think the tech2 was the latest and greatest at the time), GM training, service manuals was covered by the dealerships (small town) and there was a whole lot less technology/equipment to buy and keep current. Sadly, I've been out of the loop since the late 90's when the family owned Chevy/Olds dealership was destroyed by a tornado and the older ownership decided not to rebuild and opted to retire.

 

[jimmy12345678]

If you want to program and update modules, all makes all models, you'll be paying at least that per year in subscriptions alone. No hardware, internet, laptops, or per vehicle charges. Just the cost for the sub.

IIRC Keith for new level auto said benz was 30k a year. By themselves.


I have the bargain setup to diagnose cars. Two basic scan tools, and a pico. I would estimate my lab scope accessories like leads, clamps, transducers, break outs, exceed $2000. I'm cheap, and have the cheapo setup. Only 5k or so in scan tools. To update both would cost 1800 a year, for the data to do so. I keep just one current to save money.

I don't think you could buy $30,000 worth of non-electronic tools and be able to fix what I see in a regular month. I would estimate I probably spend a few hundred dollars on consumables per year. Out of my pocket the shop is not supplying

The auto repair industry has consistently been 20+ years behind the times IME, clinging desperately to an outdated business model still trying to make it work. The bottom rung of techs still makes 90’s wages and most shop owners have not stayed current and frankly have no clue as to the investment in tools a top level tech has to make in order to just come through the door.

Many don’t have the desire to spend $1000’s in tools only to be paid poorly, treated like **** and be expected to be able to work on anything made in the last 40 years. Sooo many other jobs have way less of an investment and better working conditions. The auto industry and the general public are in for a rude awakening, because the price for service will only go UP, not down. And as less and less competent techs enter the field and more leave, the good ones will be able to charge a hefty premium as they’ll be the only ones capable of doing the work.

And I might be wrong, but I see more service work being done by used car lots and the like instead of the consumer. I.e consumers will drive the vehicle until the cost to repair it exceeds what they can afford, so they’ll trade it off and the used car market will scoop them up, spend money to fix them and flip them. I frankly don’t think many car owners are prepared for what things REALLY cost in auto repair. They’ve been catered to for too long and now expect the market to conform to their impossible demands. And I eagerly cheer this train along as it barrels down the tracks towards the cliff, it’s been long overdue and I’m interested to see where the field goes afterwards.

 

[m6z]

And I might be wrong, but I see more service work being done by used car lots and the like instead of the consumer. I.e consumers will drive the vehicle until the cost to repair it exceeds what they can afford, so they’ll trade it off and the used car market will scoop them up, spend money to fix them and flip them.

Yeah. The general public would rather just get a different car than "waste money" repairing their current ride.

Cheaper than buying new tires, Amirite?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Yeah. The general public would rather just get a different car than "waste money" repairing their current ride.

Cheaper than buying new tires, Amirite?

No money down, roll the negative equity over. New car has new tires.

People live with the mindset of a rapper, and wonder why "you cant make it in america anymore". Perfect example is the fresh tire shine on a bald chinese tires. All about looking good my friend.

 

[freeisforme]

Around my way the dealers are the best paying mechanic jobs around and they're paying less now than in the 90's.
Nearly all tools are the responsibility of the tech, benefits are paid for by the tech, supposedly a 50/50 deal but most are paying $450+ per month out of their check toward single benefits, some won't even offer family options unless the tech pays it all.
Dealer diag tools are limited to one scan tool, and that's usually messed up from abuse and missing cables or flat out dead. specialty tools are always missing parts from the kits, older kits are gone, stolen by past employees likely pissed off about not getting paid right.
They hire one 'A' rate guy, he gets to babysit the rest of the fresh out of school newbies making more than him because they went to some tech school and got a degree that don't mean a thing anywhere but there. They're paying for their tools and training out of their paychecks, most are lucky to take home $300/wk and still have to pay for their student loan, their tools they were forced to buy as part of the program, and their health benefits. I knew one kid who was taking home $360/wk, paying Snap On credit $75/wk, on a basic tool set and 40" wide KRA box, paying $135 per week for health care for him, a wife and one kid, making a car payment on a 15 year old truck at $450/month, plus $11 in union dues, and $27.50/wk for uniforms. Plus he was paying rent at some low end complex across town. His wife worked at a local deli making minimum wage with not even a HS diploma.
He lasted about 10 months before he quit, sold his tools for cash, and took a job for the local trash company for $28/hr.
They paid 100% of his benefits for him and his family, his uniforms were covered, and he no longer had to buy tools. I suppose he still had to pay union dues but he said they were only a few bucks a week compared to the bogus union at the dealer.
That was about 8 years ago. He since has gotten a CDL and is now driving for a major carrier making top dollar.

The bad part is I don't see who will be left to fix these new cars, techs are getting paid less and less, dealers are getting harder to work for and they put all the responsibility on the tech. Years ago you were shielded from personal law suits by the company you worked for but those days are gone. The tech pays for the tools, he pays for his supplies, he pays for his benefits, and is responsible if something goes wrong out of pocket. The dealers won't even insure your tools these days, and the cost of insuring a big box at your place of work costs thousands per year. If you can even find a company to insure you.
A few shops now are requiring techs to be 'bonded' in the event they make a mistake and someone sues.
Sort of like malpractice insurance. They were talking about that 25 years ago when I got out of it. The union was pushing for it, I suppose to make themselves more relevant in a time when most dealership techs were voting to dump the union that was only costing them money. (We had one union rep negotiate a $1.23 raise over 5 years back in 1991. We later found out the dealer had written him a $20k check to approve the deal). A year later the union was gone and that dealer was bankrupt. Its now a pile of rubble with a bunch of test wells sticking out of the ground all over the place. 30 years later its still a contaminated hole in the ground that's been deemed unsellable. The entire chain of dealers went under within a few years after all the Savings loan fraud cases of the early 90's. All but one or two local dealers closed up, the few that remain don't pay well and won't hire quality guys.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The costs are really eye opening to why there's a shortage of techs and why people are saying "It's going to get worse".

Back in the late 90's all of the certs, scan equipment(I think the tech2 was the latest and greatest at the time), GM training, service manuals was covered by the dealerships (small town) and there was a whole lot less technology/equipment to buy and keep current. Sadly, I've been out of the loop since the late 90's when the family owned Chevy/Olds dealership was destroyed by a tornado and the older ownership decided not to rebuild and opted to retire.

In a nutshell, this is why guys roll their eyes when people talk about tool cost or other jobs complain about supplying things.

10k isnt squat. I figure you need $1500 to change oil and tires. You gotta have triple square bits and everything else for the stupid undertrays. Even amazon shopping, it adds up stupid fast.

 

[dnschmidt]

I say the same thing. I see far more SAE sizes than metric sizes. If all my box had was metric wrenches I'd be in big trouble when it comes to the hundreds of old tractors, RV's old boat motors, trailers, and heavy equipment I deal with.

I couldn't give a hoot about a Camry or any Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, or other import car. Much of the equipment in the fields here is old, well over 40 years old, some over 60 years old. The same with most boats and old trucks. As I look down my street, I think my 22 year old truck is the newest on the block.

I own both, you have to these days but we're decades away from not seeing anything that uses SAE sizes.

Doesn't sound like a very upscale neighborhood to me? I look up and down my street and all I see are BMW's, Mercedes Benzes and huge ******* SUV's. I bring my 911 out of storage once every blue moon and park in in my driveway so that the neighbors don't harass me about my 2021 Camry being an eyesore.