The VISES of Garage Journal

[Patrickm82]

I would say you are correct

 

[BlackHorseSaga]

Are USA Tradesmans becoming more rare? I have six of them I'm considering selling from 1750s to 1780s.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I wouldn't say they are rare. There's been some heated discussion on weather or not all tradesmen are US made or not. Fleabay is full of them.

 

[Shiftless]

Wilton moved production of the Tradesman vises to Taiwan several years ago.

here is the story:

New Wilton Tradesman and Mechanics Pro Bullet-Style Vises

Wilton has redesigned their Tradesman bullet-style bench vise.

toolguyd.com

 

[skmbabon]

J Allen's Combined Anvil and Vise​

Palmyra Scale & Mch. Works​

Palmyra, NY​

New content added Apr 18, 2023

This is about the USA made version of the vise. The Canadian version by AR Woodyatt is here: Allen's Combined Anvil and Vise

Joseph Allen was granted two patents for anvil/vise combinations. This one is based one the 1881 patent. According to the entry at Vintage Machinery he manufactured it until at least 1899. Canadian production apparently continued much longer.




More photos of the American version in va.grouseman's post linked below.

---

This is the initial post from Nov 2021:

Here's an anvil vises I picked up recently.---It's a J. ALLEN.--- VISEs was instrumental in helping me procure this little vise..---Actually he did all the heavy lifting on this one.---Can't tell if it is an old weld or a casting flaw over some of the numbers on the patent date.---But it's in pretty good shape to be about 120 years old.

Found out some info about the Canadian manufactured version of this design. First saw the design here:

One of my vices is vises (or maybe anvils) A & W

progress-is-fine.blogspot.com

Tonight, while looking for some unrelated vise info I stumbled onto Mark Stansbury's anvil/vise combination spreadsheet: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/the-vises-of-garage-journal.44782/post-9022210

"A. R. Woodyat & Co, Guelph" was unfamiliar to me, so started Googling and found they made the "Allen's Combination Vise and Anvil" which solved the mystery of the vise at "Progress Is Fine..." - the "A&W" is actually "A&V" for "anvil & vise".

I've sent MisterG at Progress is Fine more info about Woodyat so maybe he'll update the post.

For va.grouseman, here's the patent for your vise, application made 1900-03-21: https://patents.google.com/patent/US650363

 

[va.grouseman]

Thaks for the info Skmbabon.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Here's a Polish vise for your review.
It's an ATCO Rapid #125. Manufactured in Poland by Bison-Bial, a world class manufacturer of top quality vises, lathe chucks, work holding tools and other machine accessories for the tool & die industry. From what I understand, "Rapid" was one of the brands sold for the Western market. This vise is very well designed. Examples are a spring loaded spindle that eliminates backlash and pads cast inside the stationary body to eliminate slop in the movement (see last picture). I've restored both Bison and Rapid vises. Although they are equal in quality, the Rapid has a jaw larger opening and features a separate nut, compared to the Bison which the nut is part of the stationary body casting.

 

[KMScott]

Here's a Polish vise for your review.
It's an ATCO Rapid #125. Manufactured in Poland by Bison-Bial, a world class manufacturer of top quality vises, lathe chucks, work holding tools and other machine accessories for the tool & die industry. From what I understand, "Rapid" was one of the brands sold for the Western market. This vise is very well designed. Examples are a spring loaded spindle that eliminates backlash and pads cast inside the stationary body to eliminate slop in the movement (see last picture). I've restored both Bison and Rapid vises. Although they are equal in quality, the Rapid has a jaw larger opening and features a separate nut, compared to the Bison which the nut is part of the stationary body casting.

Mark, what is the spec:s on this Atco. It needs to be on the spreadsheet. I have also used many Bison lathe chucks over my years. Good chucks.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Mark, what is the spec:s on this Atco. It needs to be on the spreadsheet. I have also used many Bison lathe chucks over my years. Good chucks.

KM:
Here's a copy of the specs in my ads. Feel free to contact me if you need more info.
BTW: Thanks for maintaining that spreadsheet.

* Jaw measurement information;
Width = 5" (125mm).
Opening = Over 5-1/2" (140mm).
Depth = 3-1/4" (83mm).
* Features serrated, removable jaw faces with plenty of life left in them.
* Anvil surface measurements; 2-1/4" x 2" (57mm x 51mm).
* 4 hole swivel mount with 90° rotation and 2 lock handles. Rotates smoothly and locks tightly.
* Overall measurements of vise;
Height = 8" (203mm).
Length = 17" (432mm).
Width = 9" (229mm).
* Weight: 44 pounds (20 kilograms).

 

[Shiftless]

Mark:
Thats a great list of specifications you just posted,
One correction though… I think you meant to say 97 pounds or 44 kilograms.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Mark:
Thats a great list of specifications you just posted,
One correction though… I think you meant to say 97 pounds or 44 kilograms.

Thank you for the heads up. Correction made.

 

[Shiftless]

Thank you for the heads up. Correction made.

You’re welcome.
I‘m surprised that a 5 inch vise, with a swivel base only weighs 44 pounds.
I sold off all of my 6 inch vises because they weighed over 100 pounds and I faced reality that I was getting too old to muscle around anything over 100.
My only 5 inch vise is a Wilton 500N which weighs nearly 90 pounds,

 

[Mark in Indiana]

You’re welcome.
I‘m surprised that a 5 inch vise, with a swivel base only weighs 44 pounds.
I sold off all of my 6 inch vises because they weighed over 100 pounds and I faced reality that I was getting too old to muscle around anything over 100.
My only 5 inch vise is a Wilton 500N which weighs nearly 90 pounds,

Bison vises are light in weight. I have a 6" FPU that weighs a little over 100#. IMO: Still great vises as long as you don't abuse them.

 

[va.grouseman]

Yep, even a Craftsman 5198, 5'' weighs more than a 100lbs..

 

[Patrickm82]

Just got this beast this morning, a Trenton original with 6” jaws haven’t put it on a scale yet but it’s gotta be a 100 plus. Pretty happy wasn’t sure what it was til I got home and hit it with a wire wheel. I will post some more pics tonight with it all cleaned up

 

[Shiftless]

Don’t be shy… show us pics dirty or not.

 

[Patrickm82]

Some pics as I got it now

 

[Patrickm82]

Don’t be shy… show us pics dirty or not.

I did , hit send before I added the photos. It doesn’t look like a hammer has hit it

 

[454ragtop]

I have a couple Atco by Bison 4" (100mm) vises, I'll try to remember to get the specs. Have a small 63, not sure if it's a Bison or an Atco, doesn't say.

Edit to add specs - 4" jaws, opens 4-1/8", weighs 29 lbs.

 

[454ragtop]

Here's the 63, guessing it's a Bison, only markings are what looks like a date code, 1965? Has the spring on the screw to take up back lash.
Specs - 2-1/2" jaws, opens 2-1/2", weighs 11 lbs.

 

[454ragtop]

Also, almost forgot, Outlaw had asked about the jaws on the Rex 700-1/2, remembered and ran them over the wire wheel today. They are cast in place hard inserts, with a very light cross hatch.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Yep, even a Craftsman 5198, 5'' weighs more than a 100lbs..

I think the Polish vises are hollow cast, like the newer Cman vises made in the 1970s. Isn't the older 5198 all solid?

 

[LNKMK8]

Are USA Tradesmans becoming more rare? I have six of them I'm considering selling from 1750s to 1780s.

I wouldn't say rare but I do think they are coming up in value. If you look at the new prices of the Imported versions, it only makes sense that a good condition USA made one would be worth more than they used to.

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Spotted this Hollands in a buddy's shop today.

 

[Patrickm82]

Here she is all cleaned up. Just coated in WD-40 for now cause I ran out of BLO, will oil and grease it up tomorrow and put her back together.

 

[SRU1436]

I don’t recall if I’ve put this on here when I first joined. I got this vise from my grandfather when he passed away about 15 ish years ago. Its my daily user and its irreplaceable. I remember playing With this vise when I was a little kid. Sadly, I never asked my grandfather where he got it. As you can see it was made in March of 1945, my grandfather was still in WW2 at the time, so my guess is he got it when he came home. Just thought I’d share it with you guys. I have several other vises I’ve collected over the years, thanks to this thread, but I can’t seem to change this one out for when of those. i only have a 2 car garage so not a lot of room for another vise.

 

[va.grouseman]

Patrickm, real nice post vise.---Nice crisp jaws.

Sru, mighty pretty Rock Island.---All the vise you'll ever need.---Pitty your Grandfather didn't have the pipe jaws laying around somewhere.

 

[skmbabon]

Here's a National Sewing Machine Co., by Vindex Tools.---I think it was supposed to be a Combination vise that had inserts like some latter Wiltons do.---Mark in Indiana has a clamp-on Vindex on page 600, post 11997.

According to this 1940 Caverhill, Learmont & Co. Ltd. catalog page, that would be a No 400 with 3" jaws opening 3-1/4" and weighing 10 lbs. Removable pipe jaws and tool steel hardy.

"All styles of Vindex vises are finished in an attractive Turquoise Blue Baked Art Metal." Hmmm, maybe yours is faded, @va.grouseman

I think @Mark in Indiana has a No 49. It's looking a bit more appealing. Width 1-3/4", opening 1-3/4", weight 2 lbs.

The VISES of Garage Journal

WHAT ?? Your Millhoff couldn't handle it ? :lol:

www.garagejournal.com

That's one for @KMScott to update and one to add to the spreadsheet. Thanks Kevin!

For future searches, this catalog page includes Stanley No. 700, 707, 709, and 710. Also Vindex No. 343, 300, 400, 49, 77, and 250.

 

[SRU1436]

Patrickm, real nice post vise.---Nice crisp jaws.

Sru, mighty pretty Rock Island.---All the vise you'll ever need.---Pitty your Grandfather didn't have the pipe jaws laying around somewhere.

Patrickm, real nice post vise.---Nice crisp jaws.

Sru, mighty pretty Rock Island.---All the vise you'll ever need.---Pitty your Grandfather didn't have the pipe jaws laying around somewhere.

I have the pipe jaws, I leave them out of the vise unless I need to use them.

 

[Outlawmws]

Awesome! its complete then!

I have an early Morgan that belonged to a neighbor across the corner from my mom's old house we just sold. I bought it from his widow after he passed. He was a former machinist. It was and is immaculate (other than dust) I've never mounted it nor abused it. I was waiting for the ideal "Gun room" or similar bench to set it up. (I'm still waiting...) Closest I'll ever come to "Grandpa's vise"

 

[Andy FitzGibbon]

8" Columbian leg vise in dad's shop.

 

[RedVise]

I collect clamp on vises and came across this oldy but goody this weekend.
No marks to ID, any thoughts ?

 

[Patrickm82]

I collect clamp on vises and came across this oldy but goody this weekend.
No marks to ID, any thoughts ?

What’s a ball park $ wise on those blacksmith style. I saw a nice clean one on flea bay the other night 2 1/2” jaws 8” tall for $80 that was peaking my interest. Is that to much?

 

[Shiftless]

What’s a ball park $ wise on those blacksmith style. I saw a nice clean one on flea bay the other night 2 1/2” jaws 8” tall for $80 that was peaking my interest. Is that to much?

I have more than a few vises, but none of the clamp on blacksmith style ones. I would say that watching the auction activity and the ending price on a few of them would be your best indication of value. eBay seems to bring top prices.

 

[RTM]

I collect clamp on vises and came across this oldy but goody this weekend.
No marks to ID, any thoughts ?

Lots of them out there, I’ve seen them in European Flea Markets for $5-10.

Meister & Schlingensiepen : Edition 1928 : Meister & Schlingensiepen : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

182 p., illus., 23.2 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

 

[RedVise]

What’s a ball park $ wise on those blacksmith style. I saw a nice clean one on flea bay the other night 2 1/2” jaws 8” tall for $80 that was peaking my interest. Is that to much?

I paid $15 and figured that was reasonable for finding it in Florida.

 

[va.grouseman]

Sru, glad to see your Rock Island is complete.---It's sad that that is considered a rare thing to have the original pipe jaws for a combination vise, and pristine jaws I might add.---Be very vigilant about where you store those, or you will be just like a lot of us fellows that are searching futility for a set to complete one of our units.

 

[va.grouseman]

Andy, Dundee would say, (Now that's a vise).---I hope one day to land me one just like that.---Already got the place ready for it.

 

[skmbabon]

I don't know much about welding, so have no idea if this is still useful, but hopefully it's interesting.
Points to Watch in Welding of Cast Iron, Canadian Machinery, 1922-01-12 pp. 26-28.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I picked up this little Athol 323-1/2. It's a bit rough and has a chip in the jaws but the price was right. And of course the pipe jaws are missing.