To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Between 485 & 705 SQ/FT Bob Heine's Auto Emporium

Workspaces between 485 and 705 squarefeet.

Robey5

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
406
Location
North of Detroit, Mi
Holy short!! Bob; you retired at 50?!!!?! That is pretty incredible (I will be turning 46 soon, and do not see myself retiring for at least 20 years, especially with the youngster now at 16 months). I will agree that seeing lift from a different perspective is a good way to bring a reality check to the brain. I think that they may be on to something in the EU (especially in Greece) where work weeks are a little shorter than the standards that seem to exist elsewhere.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

madison069

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
4,237
Location
Monroeville, PA
Talking about traveling and I got to thinking I've only traveled to south and central America mostly. Once I did go to Dubai for work. Other then that, I've only traveled in the US.

As for retirement, I don't see me retiring until healthcare can be taken care of cheaply. My wife is planning to retire early but that's banking on me working till I'm 65 for health insurance unless something changes in the next 25 years.
 
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Bob - living in Europe is different, isn't it? I've actually taken the opposite approach to retirement - I will retire from the Army next year, and don't need to work, but I plan to work part-time, remotely (read: from the comfort of my house in comfy clothes) until further notice. I'll continue to grow my YouTube channel as well. I may end up being too busy, but my Dad really went downhill mentally when he retired and I'm trying to prevent the same thing from happening to me. At 86, he may be the healthiest in the family physically, but dementia has ravaged his brain.
Scott
Scott, I think the US is unique in the work/life balance. Jobs in Australia and most of the countries in Europe come with four weeks vacation to start. Jobs In the US come with two (maybe three) weeks vacation to start and after 10 years or so get an additional week.

In a way I was in the same boat as you. After five months of retirement from IBM and one silly purchase on QVC, Liane "suggested" I get a job. Out of the blue an ex-IBM executive working for America Online called and offered me a six-week gig in Reston, VA. The six-week gig turned into four years but Liane decided it wasn't all that bad having me home (especially after buying the retirement home we live in now).

I know all to well how dementia can ravage one. My mother retired from teaching at 65 and moved to Florida to be near us. She joined the church choir, became a member of the League of Women Voters (she was a young woman when the 22nd Amendment passed), worked as a teacher's aid and traveled all over the world, including a South American cruise on a freighter and a hike up to Machu Picchu when she was in her late mid 70s and a trip to Australia to visit us when she was 79. She turned her focus to her grandson's family and drove the 70 miles to visit them every weekend until she turned 90. Her last five years were a steady decline with numerous bizarre episodes interspersed with a half-dozen doctor visits each month. I visited her daily for five years to make sure she took her meds, had hot meals and arranged to have a nurse move in with her when her ability to differentiate night from day disappeared. Until her final year she was able to take the bus to the Volen Center to continue her landscape painting hobby, have a meal with new friends and share stories. She passed away in a hospice center on Mothers Day 2008
Holy short!! Bob; you retired at 50?!!!?! That is pretty incredible (I will be turning 46 soon, and do not see myself retiring for at least 20 years, especially with the youngster now at 16 months). I will agree that seeing lift from a different perspective is a good way to bring a reality check to the brain. I think that they may be on to something in the EU (especially in Greece) where work weeks are a little shorter than the standards that seem to exist elsewhere.
@Robey5, it required all the stars to align. IBM was cutting back and offered a buyout package, a year's salary, elimination of the early retirement pension reduction (as if I retired at 65) and continuation of the group medical plans to age 65. I had one year to go to early retirement (30 years) so the year's salary was perfect. When I submitted my papers, the group I was working for asked me to stay on for one more year as a consultant -- at my current salary. I put it all together in a giant spreadsheet and came to the reluctant conclusion to take the deal.

There was one small hiccup. I couldn't touch my IRAs and 401k until age 59.5 without major penalties. The job at AOL took care of the first four years and investments from that job took care of the other five-and-a-half.

In 1999, five years after I retired with a pension, "IBM announced plans to phase out its traditional pensions in favor of a more flexible retirement benefits package it said could save up to $200 million a year and was catered to the changing career goals of its workforce.IBM ended the pension plan for current employees." Suddenly I felt like a 'fart smeller.'
Talking about traveling and I got to thinking I've only traveled to south and central America mostly. Once I did go to Dubai for work. Other then that, I've only traveled in the US.

As for retirement, I don't see me retiring until healthcare can be taken care of cheaply. My wife is planning to retire early but that's banking on me working till I'm 65 for health insurance unless something changes in the next 25 years.
Cody, the health insurance thing was the deciding factor for me. Had they not offered that 15-year bridge, I couldn't have retired when I did. In those 15 years my premiums went from $0 to $9,000 a year. Still cheap by current standards.
That's one handsome couple :)
Thank you Dennis. I don't think she had very good eyeglasses back then.
 
Last edited:

bulletpruf

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
11,138
Location
San Antonio
Scott, I think the US is unique in the work/life balance. Jobs in Australia and most of the countries in Europe come with four weeks vacation to start. Jobs In the US come with two (maybe three) weeks vacation to start and after 10 years or so get an additional week.

In a way I was in the same boat as you. After five months of retirement from IBM and one silly purchase on QVC, Liane "suggested" I get a job. Out of the blue an ex-IBM executive working for America Online called and offered me a six-week gig in Reston, VA. The six-week gig turned into four years but Liane decided it wasn't all that bad having me home (especially after buying the retirement home we live in now). Having squirreled away as much as I could in IRAs and 401ks while working, the

I know all to well how dementia can ravage one. My mother retired from teaching at 65 and moved to Florida to be near us. She joined the church choir, became a member of the League of Women Voters (she was a young woman when the 22nd Amendment passed), worked as a teacher's aid and traveled all over the world, including a South American cruise on a freighter and a hike up to Machu Picchu when she was in her late mid 70s and a trip to Australia to visit us when she was 79. She turned her focus to her grandson's family and drove the 70 miles to visit them every weekend until she turned 90. Her last five years were a steady decline with numerous bizarre episodes interspersed with a half-dozen doctor visits each month. I visited her daily for five years to make sure she took her meds, had hot meals and arranged to have a nurse move in with her when her ability to differentiate night from day disappeared. Until her final year she was able to take the bus to the Volen Center to continue her landscape painting hobby, have a meal with new friends and share stories. She passed away in a hospice center on Mothers Day 2008

Bob - yes, it's interesting how Europe pretty much shuts down in July and August because everyone is away "on holiday." I have gotten spoiled with the Army - 30 days of paid vacation per year. Of course, I have also spent up to 15 months at a time deployed to a combat zone, working 14 hour days x 7 days a week with periodic rocket and mortar attacks, so it all evens out.

Your mother sounds like she was an amazing and extremely independent woman. Must have been nice to have you living nearby as she got older.

Scott
 

zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,477
Location
Northern Utah
Good for you being able to retire so young Bob. My wife and I were on track to retire at 56-58 but then we went and did a stupid thing six years ago and bought our new home. We waffled for quite a bit (like 3 years) before pulling the trigger as we didn't want it to affect our retirement plans but figured it would delay them by about 8 years or so due to having to go back to having a mortgage. Once we made up our minds that being out of our old neighborhood would be a good thing and accepted the fact that we wouldn't be able to retire until around 65 years of age, we rolled up our sleeves and got busy completing our shop and yard and figured we would just enjoy it. However, after getting everything completed, paying extra on the mortgage and now being able to put more into investments, we have been able to push ahead and now it's looking like our retirement was only delayed a couple of years if we can stick to the plan compared to the 8 or so years we initially calculated when we moved. We are currently on track to retire at about 60-62 year old range which is only 6-8 years away and I think it will be here before we know it. Paying for health insurance will be our biggest concern until we are at age to qualify for Medicare but my main goal is to have the mortgage paid off within the next 5-6 years so we enter retirement completely debt free as that is our only debt.

I have been waffling lately on changing jobs as I've been approached a couple of times over the past year but the vacation you spoke of has been the deciding factor. Most companies in my line of work start at either one or two weeks and then after about 5 or 8 years will bump you up to 3 weeks where you max. out. I am currently grandfathered in at my current job and have 6 weeks vacation which is hard to walk away from, even for a bit more money. The wife also has the same amount of vacation and we feel we have a nice balance of work and time to travel which make it easier to work a few more years before retirement.

Many (most) of our RV'ing friends went full-time when they retired and seeing as how my wife and I are the youngest couple in the group we travel with we are unfortunately having to watch many of them hang up the keys to their RV's as age is catching up to them. We have been traveling with this group for nearly 15 years now and although we feel very blessed to be able to do so, it is hard to watch them leave the RV lifestyle and some of them actually passing away. My wife and I have talked at length about what our retirement will look like and as much as I thoroughly love and live to travel in our RV I don't think I could ever go "full-time". I need my stick and brick to come home to and enjoy between RV'ing trips. I can easily see my wife and I take more extended RV trips when we retire but no way could I go full time. I can also see myself spending more time in my shop when we're not traveling and my wife thinks she would like to volunteer at our county library a few days a week.

I enjoy reading and listening to others who are at retirement age to see what they do with their time but I also am a bit frightened as I watched my father go down hill rapidly once he "semi-retired" and had to come to the realization that he couldn't do the things he did when he was younger. All he ever did was work and really had no other interests so when he started selling off pieces of the farm and doing less farming, ie. semi-retire, he really went down hill fast and ended up passing at only 73 years old. I don't want to be that way and want to be around for my wife, son, DIL and eventually grandchildren. More importantly, my wife and I have many dreams that haven't become reality yet so we need as much time between now and through retirement as we can get so we can to fulfill those dreams.
 

Squankum

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
7,882
Location
Southeast
Scott, I think the US is unique in the work/life balance. Jobs in Australia and most of the countries in Europe come with four weeks vacation to start. Jobs In the US come with two (maybe three) weeks vacation to start and after 10 years or so get an additional week.

In a way I was in the same boat as you. After five months of retirement from IBM and one silly purchase on QVC, Liane "suggested" I get a job. Out of the blue an ex-IBM executive working for America Online called and offered me a six-week gig in Reston, VA. The six-week gig turned into four years but Liane decided it wasn't all that bad having me home (especially after buying the retirement home we live in now). Having squirreled away as much as I could in IRAs and 401ks while working, the
The what now?

In 1999, five years after I retired with a pension, "IBM announced plans to phase out its traditional pensions in favor of a more flexible retirement benefits package it said could save up to $200 million a year and was catered to the changing career goals of its workforce.IBM ended the pension plan for current employees." Suddenly I felt like a 'fart smeller.'

Did they end the pension plan for people who had been working there for years? Or just new hires?

"Changing career goals of the workforce" meaning "kids today don't expect to stick with an employer for decades, because we sure as hell aren't going to give them the chance"?
 
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Bob - yes, it's interesting how Europe pretty much shuts down in July and August because everyone is away "on holiday." I have gotten spoiled with the Army - 30 days of paid vacation per year. Of course, I have also spent up to 15 months at a time deployed to a combat zone, working 14 hour days x 7 days a week with periodic rocket and mortar attacks, so it all evens out.

Your mother sounds like she was an amazing and extremely independent woman. Must have been nice to have you living nearby as she got older.

Scott
Scott, Australia has a similar phenomenon. Summer arrives in December along with the Christmas and New Year holidays so the children have a lot of time off from school. Perfect time to take vacation! My drive to work the rest of the year took at least an hour but in January it was under a half hour. When I worked for IBM we got two weeks vacation the first full year, three weeks after five years, four weeks after ten years and five weeks after 20. My final years didn't allow for much time off so they paid me for the fifteen weeks I hadn't taken when I retired. The CEO of IBM had to sign off on my carried vacation because they instituted a 'take it or lose it' policy in those final years.

Military service has its perks but it's sad the best we can do is 'thank you for your service.' No one ever shot at me while I worked for IBM or AOL but I did put in some crazy hours. In my final years at IBM they catered meals so we didn't have to leave the building. For much of that time I lived on four hours sleep a night and the other 20 in the office seven days a week. An alarm clock wouldn't wake me so I drank a quart of water just before going to bed. Four hours later I was guaranteed to be up and awake.

Because she and my father were teachers, they had summers off. The book dad co-authored brought in a decent third income (more than their combined salaries in some years) so they were able to travel, primitively dragging a travel trailer or just a station wagon, across North America. Eventually they explored the world together until my father passed in 1968. They didn't get to Africa, South America or much of the Pacific so mom fulfilled that dream alone (with friends). She did the safari thing and visited China in 1982.

My mother almost lost her life before she was born. My grandfather sailed from England for Canada in March 1912 to get a place to live in Montreal, with my grandmother and year old son to follow soon after. She arranged for passage in April aboard the Titanic. She cancelled the trip when she realized she was pregnant. No way was she spending six days risking seasickness on top of morning sickness, caring for a toddler in a tiny cabin. My mother was born in November 1912 and made the crossing safely in 2013. Grandpa got a job with the Canadian government to teach failed goldminers how to raise and care for livestock in in the Yukon Territory, from his home base in Grande Prairie, Alberta. Those years taught my mother how to live in rough conditions.
Good for you being able to retire so young Bob. My wife and I were on track to retire at 56-58 but then we went and did a stupid thing six years ago and bought our new home. We waffled for quite a bit (like 3 years) before pulling the trigger as we didn't want it to affect our retirement plans but figured it would delay them by about 8 years or so due to having to go back to having a mortgage. Once we made up our minds that being out of our old neighborhood would be a good thing and accepted the fact that we wouldn't be able to retire until around 65 years of age, we rolled up our sleeves and got busy completing our shop and yard and figured we would just enjoy it. However, after getting everything completed, paying extra on the mortgage and now being able to put more into investments, we have been able to push ahead and now it's looking like our retirement was only delayed a couple of years if we can stick to the plan compared to the 8 or so years we initially calculated when we moved. We are currently on track to retire at about 60-62 year old range which is only 6-8 years away and I think it will be here before we know it. Paying for health insurance will be our biggest concern until we are at age to qualify for Medicare but my main goal is to have the mortgage paid off within the next 5-6 years so we enter retirement completely debt free as that is our only debt.

I have been waffling lately on changing jobs as I've been approached a couple of times over the past year but the vacation you spoke of has been the deciding factor. Most companies in my line of work start at either one or two weeks and then after about 5 or 8 years will bump you up to 3 weeks where you max. out. I am currently grandfathered in at my current job and have 6 weeks vacation which is hard to walk away from, even for a bit more money. The wife also has the same amount of vacation and we feel we have a nice balance of work and time to travel which make it easier to work a few more years before retirement.

Many (most) of our RV'ing friends went full-time when they retired and seeing as how my wife and I are the youngest couple in the group we travel with we are unfortunately having to watch many of them hang up the keys to their RV's as age is catching up to them. We have been traveling with this group for nearly 15 years now and although we feel very blessed to be able to do so, it is hard to watch them leave the RV lifestyle and some of them actually passing away. My wife and I have talked at length about what our retirement will look like and as much as I thoroughly love and live to travel in our RV I don't think I could ever go "full-time". I need my stick and brick to come home to and enjoy between RV'ing trips. I can easily see my wife and I take more extended RV trips when we retire but no way could I go full time. I can also see myself spending more time in my shop when we're not traveling and my wife thinks she would like to volunteer at our county library a few days a week.

I enjoy reading and listening to others who are at retirement age to see what they do with their time but I also am a bit frightened as I watched my father go down hill rapidly once he "semi-retired" and had to come to the realization that he couldn't do the things he did when he was younger. All he ever did was work and really had no other interests so when he started selling off pieces of the farm and doing less farming, ie. semi-retire, he really went down hill fast and ended up passing at only 73 years old. I don't want to be that way and want to be around for my wife, son, DIL and eventually grandchildren. More importantly, my wife and I have many dreams that haven't become reality yet so we need as much time between now and through retirement as we can get so we can to fulfill those dreams.
Mike, you are doing all the right things for retirement. We paid off the mortgage when I was in my 40s and never took loans out for cars, boats or other expensive toys. Never carried a credit card balance and lived well below our means (I have no idea who these "Jones's" are).

I was motivated to retire as early as possible because my father died when he was 55, two months after he retired. Nothing I lusted for or 'had to have' was worth missing out on my children and grandchildren (and now great-grandchildren) growing up. You have enough hobbies and interests to fill your hours in retirement so I wouldn't worry about a rapid decline.

I do go against the majority of financial advisors when it comes to Social Security. The conventional wisdom is to wait to collect as long as possible so the check is bigger. I disagree because a check today in the bank is worth more than a check someday in the mail. If you start collecting Social Security when you are 62, that money could fund the outrageous cost of health insurance for the three to five years from age 62 to Medicare. If you live a long time, waiting could pay off but I wasn't willing to gamble living past 80. I suspect, like me, the Social Security check is a bonus but not the ball game. Without using your actual numbers or accounting for cost of living increases, a simple spreadsheet of a 30% reduction for taking early withdrawal ($30,000 full annual benefit taken at 67), shows break-even if you live to 80:
Social Security Early Withdrawal - Mike.jpg
I'm sure I'm missing something so take this as the ramblings of an old man but this falls into the "buying green bananas" realm/
The what now?
@Squankum, sorry, I was editing with cut and paste and left that dangling. I was making the point that the years between 50 and 59,5 were lean because I couldn't touch the IRA and 401k plans without a 10% penalty. Pretty sure there are ways around it but all it meant for us was living normally, as in below our income. Now the surpluses go to our kids and grandkids.
Did they end the pension plan for people who had been working there for years? Or just new hires?

"Changing career goals of the workforce" meaning "kids today don't expect to stick with an employer for decades, because we sure as hell aren't going to give them the chance"?
After the 1999 announcement triggered a bunch of lawsuits, IBM allowed 65,000 employees who were nearing retirement to choose either the pension plan or a 401k. In 2006 IBM stopped contributing to the pension fund. A complication of defined benefit plans is the required payments to the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp., a federal entity established to protect pensions. IBM expected to pay $500 million to the PBGC in 2005, but because of low short-term interest rates, the company had to pay $1.2 billion for the year, the company said. When IBM turned the pension plan over to Prudential, effective January 2023, it became an annuity plan and is no longer protected by the PBGC. Another "We upped our income, now up yours!"

Back in the 1980s, IBM noticed Microsoft and all the other Silicon Valley tech companies had no retirement plans. Most of those companies gave employees stock options, which made them rich so no one cared. IBM tried the same thing in the mid-1990s, giving employees stock options if they met their goals.
 
Last edited:
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Bob I need to due a better job with keeping up with your thread!

the question i have is what car did you take to the senior prom?
Matt, Liane drove us to my junior prom as well as her senior prom in her father's 1959 Ford Anglia 'station' car. I didn't get my driver's license until after we were married (thanks Dad!). I drove her mother's Rambler on our honeymoon with my learner's permit. My high school Driver's Ed program required me to have a permit before I could compete in the National Driving Rodeo (I came in second in the district).
 

zmotorsports

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
21,477
Location
Northern Utah
Thanks Bob. I had the EXACT same discussion with our financial planner a few years ago pertaining to early withdrawal vs. deferred withdrawal of SS. His suggestion was it all depended on what a person "needed" when they retired on whether or not he would recommend it as well as a person's health, so he was at least open to the discussion vs. many that are very firm in their stance to defer as long as possible. My thinking was along the same lines as yours with earlier withdrawal would be more certain and deferred would be a question mark. Also like you, we are not calculating any SS into our financial plan and when we run our numbers we are figuring only our liquid assets and the SS with be the cherry on top.

Thanks for the information and pretty much confirming my thoughts.
 

madison069

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
4,237
Location
Monroeville, PA
I agree, social security is just a bonus if it still exist when I retire. My mortgage is paid off in 5 years. With 2 rental properties I do have a side income and the day job that does have a pension but I’m 14 years away before I’m guaranteed that pension. Wife has her job and a pension. So I guess like you, we could maybe retire in 15 years or when I’m 55. But the wife wants to travel and I fear traveling won’t be any cheaper then it is now. Oh and I plan to take SS soon as I can, no male lived to be 80 in my family so it’s a gamble I’ll take. Dad paid so much money into the SS and he never saw the return. Mom got it for a year as a survivor spouse and then she passed, so all that money dad paid just went to other folks.
 

bulletpruf

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
11,138
Location
San Antonio
Scott, Australia has a similar phenomenon. Summer arrives in December along with the Christmas and New Year holidays so the children have a lot of time off from school. Perfect time to take vacation! My drive to work the rest of the year took at least an hour but in January it was under a half hour. When I worked for IBM we got two weeks vacation the first full year, three weeks after five years, four weeks after ten years and five weeks after 20. My final years didn't allow for much time off so they paid me for the fifteen weeks I hadn't taken when I retired. The CEO of IBM had to sign off on my carried vacation because they instituted a 'take it or lose it' policy in those final years.

Bob - where were you in Oz? I traveled a fair bit down under for work - Sydney, Brisbane, Queensland, and Northern Territory (Katherine area).

Military service has its perks but it's sad the best we can do is 'thank you for your service.' No one ever shot at me while I worked for IBM or AOL but I did put in some crazy hours. In my final years at IBM they catered meals so we didn't have to leave the building. For much of that time I lived on four hours sleep a night and the other 20 in the office seven days a week. An alarm clock wouldn't wake me so I drank a quart of water just before going to bed. Four hours later I was guaranteed to be up and awake.

Man, those are crazy hours. I can tolerate it for a while, but long-term would certainly have adverse health impacts.

Because she and my father were teachers, they had summers off. The book dad co-authored brought in a decent third income (more than their combined salaries in some years) so they were able to travel, primitively dragging a travel trailer or just a station wagon, across North America. Eventually they explored the world together until my father passed in 1968. They didn't get to Africa, South America or much of the Pacific so mom fulfilled that dream alone (with friends). She did the safari thing and visited China in 1982.

I've just done a bit of Africa - Morocco on vacation and Ethiopia for work. A few Morocco pics - IMG_0919.JPGIMG_0841.JPG

Visited Beijing on vacation while we were stationed in Korea - it was a phenomenal trip. Pic below is from the Great Wall. Our daughter was a rock star there -- the locals were mesmerized by her blonde hair. Several dozen folks approached us because they wanted their picture taken with her.

IMG_2989.jpg

My mother almost lost her life before she was born. My grandfather sailed from England for Canada in March 1912 to get a place to live in Montreal, with my grandmother and year old son to follow soon after. She arranged for passage in April aboard the Titanic. She cancelled the trip when she realized she was pregnant. No way was she spending six days risking seasickness on top of morning sickness, caring for a toddler in a tiny cabin. My mother was born in November 1912 and made the crossing safely in 2013. Grandpa got a job with the Canadian government to teach failed goldminers how to raise and care for livestock in in the Yukon Territory, from his home base in Grande Prairie, Alberta. Those years taught my mother how to live in rough conditions.

Wow!!! Good thing for you that she canceled her trip!!! My mom's side of family is from Canuckistan as well -- New Brunswick. Her parents passed a while back, so we don't visit anymore, but I'd love to go back.
 

PugetDude

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
22,481
Location
Superstition Mountains, AZ
We did the math earlier this year- Our SS break even age was also 80.
16 years at ~6K month now or wait 3 years for a slightly larger check going forward?
My first check arrives in December. My wife started earlier this year.
 
Last edited:

rharman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
8,914
Location
SoCal
As a general rule, if you defer starting SS, you break even 12 years after you start - consistent with Bob's spreadsheet.

I retired 12/31/2021 at age 66 + 3 months - just past FRA - Full Retirement Age. I rolled the dice and decided to defer for 1 year. That 8% bump for deferring it seemed like a good investment. So, I'm starting it 1/1/2023 - it'll be nice to get a "paycheck" again. And, my wife is starting hers too as she's now at FRA - she retired in 2020.

If you can afford to defer, there is a benefit overlooked by many. The larger your benefit grows, assuming yours is the higher amount compared to your spouse, your spouse "inherits" the larger benefit if you pass away first. Conversely, if your spouse passes away first, you'll still have that higher amount for yourself - remember, you'll lose their SS income. So, think about the situation you may leave your surviving spouse in should you pass away. Or, yourself if they pass first.

If you start early, you (or they, in the event of your passing) are locked into the lower benefit amount (other than COLA) for life.

Granted, it's all a big gamble and, hopefully, you're not in a situation where SS is a critical factor in your retirement income. I have friends who, sadly, had to start at 62 just to get by.
 

Squankum

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
7,882
Location
Southeast
Pic below is from the Great Wall. Our daughter was a rock star there -- the locals were mesmerized by her blonde hair. Several dozen folks approached us because they wanted their picture taken with her.

Older versions of this:

Female members of my family when in Mexico in the early 70's. It was a rare thing to see then!

Friend of mine was living in Hawaii as a child in the early 70's. Age 4 or so, he was fishing on a dock when a tour bus stopped and 60 Japanese tourists came swarming out of the door to surround the orange-headed boy and take his picture.

Oh, and I have some African-American friends who travelled off the beaten path in China in modern times and they got a lot of attention, too!
 
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Thanks Bob. I had the EXACT same discussion with our financial planner a few years ago pertaining to early withdrawal vs. deferred withdrawal of SS. His suggestion was it all depended on what a person "needed" when they retired on whether or not he would recommend it as well as a person's health, so he was at least open to the discussion vs. many that are very firm in their stance to defer as long as possible. My thinking was along the same lines as yours with earlier withdrawal would be more certain and deferred would be a question mark. Also like you, we are not calculating any SS into our financial plan and when we run our numbers we are figuring only our liquid assets and the SS with be the cherry on top.

Thanks for the information and pretty much confirming my thoughts.
Mike, my decision was driven by my father's death at 55 so soon after his retirement. Because my mother would collect her New York teacher's pension, he chose to take his maximum payout (3/4 of his salary) with nothing for my mother in the event of his death. He had planned to take out a life insurance policy that could provide a decent annuity but he failed to do that the first month after he retired. He died before receiving the first pension check.
I agree, social security is just a bonus if it still exist when I retire. My mortgage is paid off in 5 years. With 2 rental properties I do have a side income and the day job that does have a pension but I’m 14 years away before I’m guaranteed that pension. Wife has her job and a pension. So I guess like you, we could maybe retire in 15 years or when I’m 55. But the wife wants to travel and I fear traveling won’t be any cheaper then it is now. Oh and I plan to take SS soon as I can, no male lived to be 80 in my family so it’s a gamble I’ll take. Dad paid so much money into the SS and he never saw the return. Mom got it for a year as a survivor spouse and then she passed, so all that money dad paid just went to other folks.
Cody, sounds like you've lived the same lesson as me. You and your wife should start traveling now. I made that suggestion to one of our beloved Garage Journal members, Stephen Church (@1/2 Cup) in 2013 when he was 57. He planned to start traveling after he retired but he passed away six years later without making it to retirement. Your life has no warrantee so anything you dream of doing someday, do it now.
Bob - where were you in Oz? I traveled a fair bit down under for work - Sydney, Brisbane, Queensland, and Northern Territory (Katherine area).



Man, those are crazy hours. I can tolerate it for a while, but long-term would certainly have adverse health impacts.



I've just done a bit of Africa - Morocco on vacation and Ethiopia for work. A few Morocco pics - IMG_0919.JPGIMG_0841.JPG

Visited Beijing on vacation while we were stationed in Korea - it was a phenomenal trip. Pic below is from the Great Wall. Our daughter was a rock star there -- the locals were mesmerized by her blonde hair. Several dozen folks approached us because they wanted their picture taken with her.

IMG_2989.jpg



Wow!!! Good thing for you that she canceled her trip!!! My mom's side of family is from Canuckistan as well -- New Brunswick. Her parents passed a while back, so we don't visit anymore, but I'd love to go back.
Scott, we lived in Manly, the seaside suburb in Sydney. Short walk to the beach and the Corso. It was like a vacation every day for Liane with a bike ride down the hill, lots of restaurants and shops to visit and a neat library. I worked in West Pennant Hills, a western suburb. We could have picked a place closer to work but that would have been like prison for Liane (she didn't want to drive on the other side of the road).

Crazy hours was my thing. AOL hired me to write two 800-page manuals, one for Windows software and the other for Macintosh software. I told them it would take three months but they wanted the books finished in six weeks. I agreed to the schedule, delivered on time but spent most of those six weeks sleeping on the floor next to my desk while waiting for the printer to finish. My hours in the first two weeks used up their whole six-week budget. They made more reasonable requests from then on.

Near the end of a two-week tour of Spain, we took a ferry from Gibraltar to Tangier in Morocco but didn't venture further than the city. I don't think there are any ferries making that trip anymore but if they did, I would STRONGLY recommend paying the tiny extra fee for first class passage. I understand they had functioning toilets in first class.
What did you drive in the driving rodeo? There had to be a great Bob story there I bet!
Matt, the driving rodeo supplied brand new 1962 Dodge Dart 4-door 6-cylinder cars.
1962 Dodge Dart - Driving Rodeo.jpg
The Driver Education class taught us on 1962 Chevy Biscayne 4-door 6-cylinder cars.
1962 Chevrolet Biscayne - Drivers Ed.jpg
I was fine on every part of the course but screwed up the parallel parking. My passenger side tires were two inches further from the curb than the guy who won first place. My instructor blamed it on the Dodge fender bulges but it was all on me.
We dis the math earlier this year- My SS break even age was also 80.
16 years at 3K/month now or wait 3 years for a slightly larger check going forward?
My first check arrives in December.
Scott, it also occurred to me that I could invest the three years of Social Security checks in something that paid decent dividends. Because Liane rarely worked outside the home, she only received half my payment. Even so, it totaled more than $85,000 in those three years. I had a bond mutual fund back then that paid 8% so those three years would yield a $93,000 nestegg.
As a general rule, if you defer starting SS, you break even 12 years after you start - consistent with Bob's spreadsheet.

I retired 12/31/2021 at age 66 + 3 months - just past FRA - Full Retirement Age. I rolled the dice and decided to defer for 1 year. That 8% bump for deferring it seemed like a good investment. So, I'm starting it 1/1/2023 - it'll be nice to get a "paycheck" again. And, my wife is starting hers too as she's now at FRA - she retired in 2020.

If you can afford to defer, there is a benefit overlooked by many. The larger your benefit grows, assuming yours is the higher amount compared to your spouse, your spouse "inherits" the larger benefit if you pass away first. Conversely, if your spouse passes away first, you'll still have that higher amount for yourself - remember, you'll lose their SS income. So, think about the situation you may leave your surviving spouse in should you pass away. Or, yourself if they pass first.

If you start early, you (or they, in the event of your passing) are locked into the lower benefit amount (other than COLA) for life.

Granted, it's all a big gamble and, hopefully, you're not in a situation where SS is a critical factor in your retirement income. I have friends who, sadly, had to start at 62 just to get by.
Roger, everyone's situation is different so any advice shared here is more opinion than rule. To give us a bigger pension payment while I was alive, I chose to split it 75% while I lived and 25% after my passing for Liane. To make up the difference I took a chunk of the one year salary buyout and pre-paid a whole life policy. With an annuity payout, she would have almost the same income. My Social Security would continue and she would lose her 1/2 papment bonus. We determined together that with my hobbies/toys/tools no longer sucking us dry, she would be on easy street. She might end up in a condo on the beach or a fancy assisted living compound but she would be fine.

To be fair, I didn't do much due diligence when it came to Social Security. When I applied three months before I turned 62 it was the first I knew Liane would get anything. She didn't qualify based on number of quarters of work so I thought she got $0, not 50% of my payment. I was so focused on the pension, our investments, the IRAs and 401k, I didn't think about Social Security.
 

rharman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
8,914
Location
SoCal
Like I said, it's all a gamble. The gal who has cut my hair for the last almost 45 years lost her husband recently. He was going to retire next year. He, too, was a teacher and had setup his retirement for maximum payout as they planned to travel. That left nothing for her after he passed. Why he did that, as a 4-pack a day lifelong smoker, was beyond me. Amazingly, his life insurance was a pittance too. Everywhere I've worked, the company provided life insurance at 1x-2x annual salary.
 

madison069

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
4,237
Location
Monroeville, PA
Cody, sounds like you've lived the same lesson as me. You and your wife should start traveling now. I made that suggestion to one of our beloved Garage Journal members, Stephen Church (@1/2 Cup) in 2013 when he was 57. He planned to start traveling after he retired but he passed away six years later without making it to retirement. Your life has no warrantee so anything you dream of doing someday, do it now.

Roger, everyone's situation is different so any advice shared here is more opinion than rule. To give us a bigger pension payment while I was alive, I chose to split it 75% while I lived and 25% after my passing for Liane. To make up the difference I took a chunk of the one year salary buyout and pre-paid a whole life policy. With an annuity payout, she would have almost the same income. My Social Security would continue and she would lose her 1/2 papment bonus. We determined together that with my hobbies/toys/tools no longer sucking us dry, she would be on easy street. She might end up in a condo on the beach or a fancy assisted living compound but she would be fine.

To be fair, I didn't do much due diligence when it came to Social Security. When I applied three months before I turned 62 it was the first I knew Liane would get anything. She didn't qualify based on number of quarters of work so I thought she got $0, not 50% of my payment. I was so focused on the pension, our investments, the IRAs and 401k, I didn't think about Social Security.
Oh, we are traveling now, just have to wait til the summer of 2023 for most of those plans. My wife has a couple of trips planned with some friends of her so that will satisfy her itch to travel. Me personally, I'm not all about the traveling as much as my wife, I just go with her cause it's what she wants to do, and I get to try different food and drinks when I travel. But she still wants to travel when we retire and I'm just happy with the thought of playing in the garage.

As for Roger's comment, it would be the opposite for me and the wife since my wife makes the most income as per the government. My job just provides good benefit that's hard to find at other jobs, so it allows me to work on side hustles to make up the difference in incomes. But, the day I am put in the incinerator my wife will be selling all of my stuff and the house with the big garage, and then she will move back to the one floor ranch home we are renting out. Between my life insurance policy, the money from selling the big house, and my investments she will be well off. Somedays I wonder why she hasn't killed me yet to cash in those policies.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

jbmatth

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
5,692
Location
Northern Ok.
I'll throw a few things out there for the younger folks that may be reading this I started my career at 23 in '09 and received some great advise, max out every tax advantaged account you can. I have done that since and recently looked at my current total compared to my expected total at 59.5. The money I've saved the first 13.5 years of working will be worth 3 times what I'd save from here to 59.5 (23 more years) It was certainly tough at first with kids in daycare, lower salary, intermittent work status for my wife but I can say now it was worth it. In theory I could stop saving now and still be able to retire at 59.5 with a higher income than now adjusting for inflation. My plan is to continue to save but put it in after tax accounts so I can retire at 50-55 depending on how the world goes between now and then.

So save save save is what I'd like to get across to anyone that may want to listen.
 
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Older versions of this:

Female members of my family when in Mexico in the early 70's. It was a rare thing to see then!

Friend of mine was living in Hawaii as a child in the early 70's. Age 4 or so, he was fishing on a dock when a tour bus stopped and 60 Japanese tourists came swarming out of the door to surround the orange-headed boy and take his picture.

Oh, and I have some African-American friends who travelled off the beaten path in China in modern times and they got a lot of attention, too!
@Squankum, In Alexandria, Egypt Liane and I were celebrities to the street urchins. Sheep and goats going to slaughter get a red stripe so our guide told us they thought that's where Liane was going. Also, missing an arm above the elbow put me in a special category of thief.
Like I said, it's all a gamble. The gal who has cut my hair for the last almost 45 years lost her husband recently. He was going to retire next year. He, too, was a teacher and had setup his retirement for maximum payout as they planned to travel. That left nothing for her after he passed. Why he did that, as a 4-pack a day lifelong smoker, was beyond me. Amazingly, his life insurance was a pittance too. Everywhere I've worked, the company provided life insurance at 1x-2x annual salary.
Roger, it seems a large part of the population are caught by surprise when they die. They make plans based on hopes and prayers. I know people who have very little mad money but buy lottery tickets every payday. My jaw drops wide open when I hear it's their retirement plan.

While I was working for IBM I had a group life insurance plan that grew to $50,000 after 20 years and a survivor income plan that paid triple my annual salary. The survivor income plan ends when you retire and the life insurance becomes a $5,000 policy. That's why I bought a paid-up whole life policy the week I retired. In the event Liane dies first, I can cash in the whole life policy -- not as big a payoff but it would pay for a new mid-engine Corvette Z06. Not sure it was a good idea to let me take over the cooking when I retired....
Oh, we are traveling now, just have to wait til the summer of 2023 for most of those plans. My wife has a couple of trips planned with some friends of her so that will satisfy her itch to travel. Me personally, I'm not all about the traveling as much as my wife, I just go with her cause it's what she wants to do, and I get to try different food and drinks when I travel. But she still wants to travel when we retire and I'm just happy with the thought of playing in the garage.

As for Roger's comment, it would be the opposite for me and the wife since my wife makes the most income as per the government. My job just provides good benefit that's hard to find at other jobs, so it allows me to work on side hustles to make up the difference in incomes. But, the day I am put in the incinerator my wife will be selling all of my stuff and the house with the big garage, and then she will move back to the one floor ranch home we are renting out. Between my life insurance policy, the money from selling the big house, and my investments she will be well off. Somedays I wonder why she hasn't killed me yet to cash in those policies.
Cody, Liane's idea of a vacation was to go somewhere and stay for a week or two. Mine is a tour that goes from place to place so we compromised and took a lot of cruises. Same stateroom for a week or two but stops at different places where you could explore on your own or take excursions. When we did the Whisky tour in Scotland, Liane wanted to stay in Fort William and make day trips from there. Instead, I drove 2,500 miles in two weeks and we stayed in places you couldn't reach in a day from any home base.
I'll throw a few things out there for the younger folks that may be reading this I started my career at 23 in '09 and received some great advise, max out every tax advantaged account you can. I have done that since and recently looked at my current total compared to my expected total at 59.5. The money I've saved the first 13.5 years of working will be worth 3 times what I'd save from here to 59.5 (23 more years) It was certainly tough at first with kids in daycare, lower salary, intermittent work status for my wife but I can say now it was worth it. In theory I could stop saving now and still be able to retire at 59.5 with a higher income than now adjusting for inflation. My plan is to continue to save but put it in after tax accounts so I can retire at 50-55 depending on how the world goes between now and then.

So save save save is what I'd like to get across to anyone that may want to listen.
JB, that's exactly how we lived. I was recuperating at home on my first anniversary with IBM in 1965 and after 21 days on sick leave they stopped taking Social Security from my paycheck. I signed up for the company stock purchase plan and put in the maximum 10% of my pay, which was $45 a month. Over the next 29 years the amount I invested increased with my salary. In July 1983 IBM announced an Individual Retirement Account and I started paying the maximum into it on day one. When they replaced the IRA plan with a 401k plan, I started paying the maximum into that. I also had an ordinary savings plan with the IBM Credit Union where I made payments for our next car/boat/toy. When there was enough money in the account to buy the car, I wrote a check with the amount filled out and took it to dealers and asked if they had the (used) car I wanted for that price. Most of the time they didn't until I got up to leave. My deal was that I have a check with the amount I want to pay and the only blanks are the date and payee -- if it's not enough I'll move on and fill in someone else's name. The one time it didn't get me the car, they called the next day but sadly I had found a nicer one for my price.

When I worked for AOL I was a sole proprietor and set up a Simplified Employee Pension so I could put money into investments and not pay tax until withdrawal. Those four short years before Y2K accumulated enough money to give me another monthly check.

My retirement income exceeds my best year working for a living by a significant amount so I echo your save, save save advice..
 
Last edited:
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
The money I've saved the first 13.5 years of working will be worth 3 times what I'd save from here to 59.5 (23 more years) It was certainly tough at first with kids in daycare, lower salary, intermittent work status for my wife but I can say now it was worth it.
JB, I think you are in for a surprise. I started paying into that retirement account 1983 and stopped paying into it 11.5 years later. I started withdrawals in 2004. I'm with you 110% on the tough part. Many times Liane asked me why we didn't have the 'stuff' other couples had and I told her it was because we lived below -- rather than above -- our means. The used cars we drove didn't come with payments and those little bumps from overtime pay went toward the mortgage principal instead of a new toy. You could see our Christmas tree above the presents and most of those presents survived to the next Christmas.
 
Last edited:

jbmatth

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
5,692
Location
Northern Ok.
JB, I think you are in for a surprise. I started paying into that retirement account 1983 and stopped paying into it 11.5 years later. I started withdrawals in 2004 I'm with you 110% on the tough part. Many times Liane asked me why we didn't have the 'stuff' other couples had and I told her it was because we lived below -- rather than above -- our means. The used cars we drove didn't come with payments and those little bumps from overtime pay went toward the mortgage principal instead of a new toy. You could see our Christmas tree above the presents and most of those presents survived to the next Christmas.
It wasn't until recently (Viper purchase after paying off house) that I now spend more than 50% of my income with the other 50% being investments or paying off mortgage. I wasn't as disciplined on the Viper, I did take a loan out but will pay it, I did up my after tax retirement savings with what was used to pay extra on the mortgage though.

My father just retired yesterday actually and sadly only has a small pension and SS. We had almost nothing growing up and they had 6 boys to raise but made sure we had clothes and food so I understand the situation. Luckily they are debt free so will be okay but not enjoying a bountiful retirement sadly. I don't want to be in that situation or have to put my kids in a situation where they have to help me financially.

JB
 

Mr.zippy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
2,221
Location
Wyoming
It wasn't until recently (Viper purchase after paying off house) that I now spend more than 50% of my income with the other 50% being investments or paying off mortgage. I wasn't as disciplined on the Viper, I did take a loan out but will pay it, I did up my after tax retirement savings with what was used to pay extra on the mortgage though.

My father just retired yesterday actually and sadly only has a small pension and SS. We had almost nothing growing up and they had 6 boys to raise but made sure we had clothes and food so I understand the situation. Luckily they are debt free so will be okay but not enjoying a bountiful retirement sadly. I don't want to be in that situation or have to put my kids in a situation where they have to help me financially.

JB
Much respect for your dad! Sounds like he gave all for his family, that's heroic in my book!
 

rharman

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
8,914
Location
SoCal
< snip >

Roger, it seems a large part of the population are caught by surprise when they die. They make plans based on hopes and prayers. I know people who have very little mad money but buy lottery tickets every payday. My jaw drops wide open when I hear it's their retirement plan.

< /snip >
I used to jokingly tell people that my retirement plan was a 3-legged stool: Savings (including 401(k)), Social Security, Lotto
Well, only got 2 legs but still hoping for that third one to kick in! :lol_hitti
 

bulletpruf

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
11,138
Location
San Antonio
Roger, it seems a large part of the population are caught by surprise when they die. They make plans based on hopes and prayers. I know people who have very little mad money but buy lottery tickets every payday. My jaw drops wide open when I hear it's their retirement plan.

My parents' retirement plan was based on hopes, prayers, kids with good jobs (my sisters are both rock stars in their respective fields), and serious lack of planning on their part.

But someone was looking out for them -- my Dad got a phone call about 7 years ago from someone claiming to know about an unknown relative that had died, leaving a lot of $ in bank accounts. He called to tell me and I said I would look into it, but thought it was 100% a scam. The weird part is that the person who called my dad knew one side of his family tree quite well...

Turns out it was LEGIT! The guy who passed away was a close relative that my Dad never realized he had!!! The guy had died in CA with a bunch of $ in bank accounts and some other assets that sat for about 10 years after his death. The folks that contacted my dad was a company that finds unclaimed assets and then looks for heirs. Once heirs are found, they sign a contract to get a percentage of the funds. Pretty easy to find heirs these days with companies like Ancestry.com. Anyway, it took two court proceedings and maybe 5 years, but now my parents and my uncle are in much better shape for retirement.

It's a crazy story, but sometimes what seems like a scam is 100% legit...
 
Last edited:

stillp

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2015
Messages
428
Location
Midlands, UK
My parents' retirement plan was based on hopes, prayers, kids with good jobs (my sisters are both rock stars in their respective fields), and serious lack of planning on their part.

But someone was looking out for them -- my Dad got a phone call about 7 years ago from someone claiming to know about an unknown relative that had died, leaving a lot of $ in bank accounts. He called to tell me and I said I would look into it, but thought it was 100% a scam. The weird part is that the person who called my dad knew one side of his family tree quite well...

Turns out it was LEGIT! The guy who passed away was a close relative that my Dad never realized he had!!! The guy had died in CA with a bunch of $ in bank accounts and some other assets that saw for about 10 years after his death. The folks that contacted my dad was a company that finds unclaimed assets and then looks for heirs. Once heirs are found, they sign a contract to get a percentage of the funds. Pretty easy to find heirs these days with companies like Ancestry.com. Anyway, it took two court proceedings and maybe 5 years, but now my parents and my uncle are in much better shape for retirement.

It's a crazy story, but sometimes what seems like a scam is 100% legit...
Happened to an old school friend of mine. Someone knocked on his door and asked "Are you the son of Mr & Mrs X?". It turned out that his father had had 2 "wives", (although I haven't found a marriage registered for either of them), and my friend had a half-brother he didn't know about, who had died, leaving a considerable sum to any surviving offspring of the father. I'm into genealogy so I was able to help my friend prove he was the heir. It wasn't a huge amount, but enough for him to pay cash for a property in Scotland.
 
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
It wasn't until recently (Viper purchase after paying off house) that I now spend more than 50% of my income with the other 50% being investments or paying off mortgage. I wasn't as disciplined on the Viper, I did take a loan out but will pay it, I did up my after tax retirement savings with what was used to pay extra on the mortgage though.

My father just retired yesterday actually and sadly only has a small pension and SS. We had almost nothing growing up and they had 6 boys to raise but made sure we had clothes and food so I understand the situation. Luckily they are debt free so will be okay but not enjoying a bountiful retirement sadly. I don't want to be in that situation or have to put my kids in a situation where they have to help me financially.

JB
JB, our parents teach what to do to have a good life but just as often they teach us what not to do. In the years after my father's death my mother had plenty of money while working between her salary and royalties but pretty much spent all of it. When she took out long term care insurance I decided to do the same (I had just turned 46). In her final years she was able to stay in her home and that insurance paid for part- and then full-time nursing care in her home. She outlived the insurance so I ended up helping to pay for the nurse.

My in-laws retired at 65 with just Social Security in 1974 and 1977 but rented out the second floor of their home for some extra income. My father-in-law's peak salary was $7,000 a year so the Social Security wasn't much. He worked as a van driver and hard shell clam sorter (off the books) and invested every penny of his pay and the rent in certificates of deposit (CDs) and moved them from bank to bank for better rates when they matured. He slipped on some ice in front of the garage and broke his hip when he was 76. They patched him up in the hospital and discovered the black mole on his back was a melanoma, which had metastasized. The doctors sent him home where a hospital bed was waiting. He was too heavy for my mother-in-law to help him out of bed so they decided he needed to be in a nursing home. Because he didn't go directly from the hospital to the nursing home, Medicare didn't cover any of the Skilled Nursing Care Facility expense. Their nest egg was around $300,000 in addition to the house and car. Based on their income, they qualified for Medicaid so my mother-in-law was allowed to keep the house and car but had to turn over half their nest egg. Father-in-law slowly wasted away and died three years later. Each time I visited him he cried and asked me to shoot him.
Much respect for your dad! Sounds like he gave all for his family, that's heroic in my book!
@Mr.zippy, I think you nailed it. I've known quite a few people who are focused on the present and have neither the time nor inclination to plan for the future. Most common plan I've heard is "I'm going to work until I die."
I used to jokingly tell people that my retirement plan was a 3-legged stool: Savings (including 401(k)), Social Security, Lotto
Well, only got 2 legs but still hoping for that third one to kick in! :lol_hitti
Roger, I was told I screwed up investing in stocks, bonds and mutual funds when I could have invested it in lotto tickets.
My parents' retirement plan was based on hopes, prayers, kids with good jobs (my sisters are both rock stars in their respective fields), and serious lack of planning on their part.

But someone was looking out for them -- my Dad got a phone call about 7 years ago from someone claiming to know about an unknown relative that had died, leaving a lot of $ in bank accounts. He called to tell me and I said I would look into it, but thought it was 100% a scam. The weird part is that the person who called my dad knew one side of his family tree quite well...

Turns out it was LEGIT! The guy who passed away was a close relative that my Dad never realized he had!!! The guy had died in CA with a bunch of $ in bank accounts and some other assets that sat for about 10 years after his death. The folks that contacted my dad was a company that finds unclaimed assets and then looks for heirs. Once heirs are found, they sign a contract to get a percentage of the funds. Pretty easy to find heirs these days with companies like Ancestry.com. Anyway, it took two court proceedings and maybe 5 years, but now my parents and my uncle are in much better shape for retirement.

It's a crazy story, but sometimes what seems like a scam is 100% legit...
Scott, great story and it mirrors my dream. After we did that Ancestry DNA thing, it occurred to me someone from my family tree owed a huge amount of money to a Nigerian Prince and I am next in line to pay it back. Or my DNA was found at an unsolved crime scene.
Happened to an old school friend of mine. Someone knocked on his door and asked "Are you the son of Mr & Mrs X?". It turned out that his father had had 2 "wives", (although I haven't found a marriage registered for either of them), and my friend had a half-brother he didn't know about, who had died, leaving a considerable sum to any surviving offspring of the father. I'm into genealogy so I was able to help my friend prove he was the heir. It wasn't a huge amount, but enough for him to pay cash for a property in Scotland.
Pete, they never knocked on my door but decades ago they called to ask if I had a son because they wanted to get in touch with him. He owed money on something he bought and they wanted to get paid. I told them I am no longer speaking to him and please call back when your find him. I immediately called my son and told him about the call -- he said they call a lot but he didn't answer (Caller ID apparently works). Not something I taught him or something I ever had to do but he took advice from sketchy friends. Not sure exactly how long it took him and his wife to fix their credit rating but they have seven children who maintain theirs. Turns out a good credit rating can be flushed down the toilet in a heartbeat but a bad one takes forever to fix.
 

scooterbum46

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
895
Location
South Central Michigan / ex Gulf Coast Florida
Bob - My dad talked me out of what I was doing at 17 (gearhead working in a gas station). He said something like "look at me, I've worked in garages most of my life, and don't have any retirement". He actually quit the Ford garage, went back to tool making (he'd worked at REO during WWII as a toolmaker). He ended up with a "pension" from the Tool and Die place - $54.00 / mo. and his Social Security.

I took his advise to heart, still did almost all my own work on vehicles until a few years ago, but never as a profession. From what I've seen, a mechanic's life is no better today than back in the 60's.
 

Squankum

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
7,882
Location
Southeast
Bob - My dad talked me out of what I was doing at 17 (gearhead working in a gas station). He said something like "look at me, I've worked in garages most of my life, and don't have any retirement". He actually quit the Ford garage, went back to tool making (he'd worked at REO during WWII as a toolmaker). He ended up with a "pension" from the Tool and Die place - $54.00 / mo. and his Social Security.

I took his advise to heart, still did almost all my own work on vehicles until a few years ago, but never as a profession. From what I've seen, a mechanic's life is no better today than back in the 60's.

You take that back! They can buy neon green ratchets now! :D
 

gearhead1960

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
1,864
Location
Manassas, VA, a small blot in history
Bob,

My parents were of the WWII generation. My dad served in Europe and married my mom after the war. He went to college and did undergrad in 3 and Law School in 2. No matter how poor or or how little they earned, their rule was to put away 10% of their earnings before they ever saw the money. They didn't have 401Ks in their day, but they still figured out how to put money away. Taking a page out of their book, when I started working I participated in every savings plan my employee offered from 401K, stock purchase plans to savings bonds. It has put me in a good position as I anticipate retirement in the next 2-3 years. I tell my kids to do the same thing and they seem to have taken it to heart and are making sure they fund their savings plans. Especially since they all think Social Security won't exist when the finally reach retirement age. It is sad to hear of all the people who have no savings and plan to retire on SS!
 
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Bob - My dad talked me out of what I was doing at 17 (gearhead working in a gas station). He said something like "look at me, I've worked in garages most of my life, and don't have any retirement". He actually quit the Ford garage, went back to tool making (he'd worked at REO during WWII as a toolmaker). He ended up with a "pension" from the Tool and Die place - $54.00 / mo. and his Social Security.

I took his advise to heart, still did almost all my own work on vehicles until a few years ago, but never as a profession. From what I've seen, a mechanic's life is no better today than back in the 60's.
Gerry, I graduated high school with a B average and a Regents scholarship that covered tuition at any New York State university. I chose Stony Brook University studying mechanical engineering. Not having a car, I paid a high school friend to drive me. I struggled with Calculus and Physics but the rest of the curriculum didn't help. In its first year (1962) at its new location they decided their engineering students needed a foundation in liberal arts as well. We had the same English and History classes as the kids who majored in those subjects. For good measure they threw in an Arts and Literature requirement. One semester of Literature, starting with the Iliad and Odyssey, the Aeneid, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, a few of Shakespeare's plays and poems and ending with 18- and 19th Century American authors but for fun, half the final exam was on Tolstoy's War and Peace. The following semester you could take music or art and I chose art, which involved going into Manhattan to view two or three hundred paintings in the Metropolitan and Modern Art museums. I ended the year on probation (of the 782 students enrolled in 1962, almost 500 flunked out). I didn't go back.

Went to work at a string of minimum wage jobs, working two or three at the same time until August 1963, when I did well enough on the test to get a job with the United States Post Office. The longer the title, the lower the position and mine was Temporary Indefinite Substitute Clerk/Carrier. Worked every day from September 1, to November 21, 1963. The next day, my first unpaid day off, Kennedy was assassinated. The Post Office and I parted ways exactly one year from my start date (August 30, 1964). Had they not canned me, they had to promote me and couldn't get rid of me without cause. Six weeks later I started in a training program at IBM in Manhattan and was having a great time. Eleven months later I had a date with a train and IBM said I would have a job but it couldn't involve working on moving machinery. They offered me an entry level job as a Technical Writer (yes, I did ask the obvious question) and moved us to our first home in Wappingers Falls, NY. That decision resulted in me re-starting my college education, attending classes at night for a decade. Made a deal with the family that I wouldn't study nights or weekends and no more than two nights a week at school. Graduated *** Laude with an English degree fifteen years after the original start.

My father lived to see me return to school but died just two years later.
 

shortykorte

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
8,039
Location
Tallahassee, Fl
Ah, so 1962 is when colleges figured out how to make more money by adding unassociated classes to a students load.
Always enjoy reading about your life’s path.
 

scooterbum46

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
895
Location
South Central Michigan / ex Gulf Coast Florida
Gerry, I graduated high school with a B average and a Regents scholarship that covered tuition at any New York State university. I chose Stony Brook University studying mechanical engineering. Not having a car, I paid a high school friend to drive me. I struggled with Calculus and Physics but the rest of the curriculum didn't help. In its first year (1962) at its new location they decided their engineering students needed a foundation in liberal arts as well. We had the same English and History classes as the kids who majored in those subjects. For good measure they threw in an Arts and Literature requirement. One semester of Literature, starting with the Iliad and Odyssey, the Aeneid, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, a few of Shakespeare's plays and poems and ending with 18- and 19th Century American authors but for fun, half the final exam was on Tolstoy's War and Peace. The following semester you could take music or art and I chose art, which involved going into Manhattan to view two or three hundred paintings in the Metropolitan and Modern Art museums. I ended the year on probation (of the 782 students enrolled in 1962, almost 500 flunked out). I didn't go back.

Went to work at a string of minimum wage jobs, working two or three at the same time until August 1963, when I did well enough on the test to get a job with the United States Post Office. The longer the title, the lower the position and mine was Temporary Indefinite Substitute Clerk/Carrier. Worked every day from September 1, to November 21, 1963. The next day, my first unpaid day off, Kennedy was assassinated. The Post Office and I parted ways exactly one year from my start date (August 30, 1964). Had they not canned me, they had to promote me and couldn't get rid of me without cause. Six weeks later I started in a training program at IBM in Manhattan and was having a great time. Eleven months later I had a date with a train and IBM said I would have a job but it couldn't involve working on moving machinery. They offered me an entry level job as a Technical Writer (yes, I did ask the obvious question) and moved us to our first home in Wappingers Falls, NY. That decision resulted in me re-starting my college education, attending classes at night for a decade. Made a deal with the family that I wouldn't study nights or weekends and no more than two nights a week at school. Graduated *** Laude with an English degree fifteen years after the original start.

My father lived to see me return to school but died just two years later.
Bob - I blew my chance to go on to school, when first I realized that, I had a wife, 3 kids (hers, not ours), a mortgage and a job with rotating work schedules (Network/mainframe ops). I got some education from my employer, but not enough for a degree. Kept working up the ladder, got to a point where state Civil Service wouldn't reclassify me to fit the management job I was doing, despite my Division and Department fighting for it - because I didn't have a degree. That's when I really fully realized the mistake. It took me another few years, but when another Department wanted to hire me to run their OP's, suddenly I was re-evaluted and moved into a professional classification, based on work experience and performance. I figure my retirement is at least $10 K less than it would have been - and it's my fault..

Squankum: and with lasered sizes that you can't read...
 
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
My dad talked me out of what I was doing at 17 (gearhead working in a gas station).
...
I took his advise to heart, still did almost all my own work on vehicles until a few years ago, but never as a profession.
Gerry, I really really loved the idea of working on cars when I was young. I waited until I was 17 to get married and had two children by the time I was 19. A friend of ours took on a gas station lease when he turned 18. He knew nothing about working on cars so he hired retired mechanic who was driving a 6-year-old Cadillac Eldorado convertible. At the time I had a nice '47 Ford two door sedan that stripped the driveshaft/differential coupling. To get a replacement I bought an entire torque tube rear end removed the coupler in my driveway. He let me use one of the lifts in exchange for some of my time and labor. Learned lessons:
  1. JC Whitney sold those couplers for $7 and didn't require getting rid of a giant hunk of metal afterwards.
  2. Gas station mechanics can't make money if they clean and polish each and every part they touch on a customer's car.
Lesson two soured me on becoming a mechanic taught me that hot rod shops didn't pay unskilled kids enough to feed a family of four. The old mechanic showed me the ugly side of the business. He had me pull a dead generator, replace the brushes, paint it black and charge the customer for a new generator. I suspect he talked the Eldorado owner into selling it to him for junk when all it needed was a starter. Like you I did almost all the repairs and maintenance on my own vehicles but never as a professional. When something went wrong, I knew it wasn't because a bad part had a fresh paintjob.
You take that back! They can buy neon green ratchets now! :D
@Squankum, I forgot about all the hidden benefits.
Bob,

My parents were of the WWII generation. My dad served in Europe and married my mom after the war. He went to college and did undergrad in 3 and Law School in 2. No matter how poor or or how little they earned, their rule was to put away 10% of their earnings before they ever saw the money. They didn't have 401Ks in their day, but they still figured out how to put money away. Taking a page out of their book, when I started working I participated in every savings plan my employee offered from 401K, stock purchase plans to savings bonds. It has put me in a good position as I anticipate retirement in the next 2-3 years. I tell my kids to do the same thing and they seem to have taken it to heart and are making sure they fund their savings plans. Especially since they all think Social Security won't exist when the finally reach retirement age. It is sad to hear of all the people who have no savings and plan to retire on SS!
Mark, my parents got married before the war but dad did serve in the Army (eventually the Army Air Corps) and stayed in the Air Force Reserves for more than a decade after the war ended. I always thought growing up in the Great Depression would make them devout savers. Instead, it taught them to spend it before the banks go bust again. Dad also avoided investing in anything for the same reasons. His death at 55 showed me how short-sighted that was. I ended up investing in stock, then an IRA as soon as they came out and a 401k when that replaced the IRA. I invested a total of $6,000 in the IRA and left it in a bunch of mutual funds. When I retired at 50 that IRA had grown to $99,000. The IBM stock wasn't doing great in the late 1980s but it was enough to pay cash for our retirement home (didn't want to make the purchase contingent on the sale of our former home).

It's a pretty simple lesson: do what you can to put your money to work for you so you don't have to work for money ever again.
My plan for SS was a hobby fund. So far it's working out.
Key, some of it pays for the Medigap insurance and the rest is our 'no questions asked' allowance. We each get $100 a week to spend on the truly important things each of us sees as a waste of the other's money. I spend mine on tools and unnecessary toys while Liane gets her hair and nails done and makes mattress stuffing with the leftover. She reminds me and the rest of the family to carefully inspect anything of hers before throwing it out after she dies.
Ah, so 1962 is when colleges figured out how to make more money by adding unassociated classes to a students load.
Always enjoy reading about your life’s path.
Shorty, there was a bit of that for sure but some of it was a reaction to the post-Sputnik obsession with making engineers as quickly as possible.
Bob - I blew my chance to go on to school, when first I realized that, I had a wife, 3 kids (hers, not ours), a mortgage and a job with rotating work schedules (Network/mainframe ops). I got some education from my employer, but not enough for a degree. Kept working up the ladder, got to a point where state Civil Service wouldn't reclassify me to fit the management job I was doing, despite my Division and Department fighting for it - because I didn't have a degree. That's when I really fully realized the mistake. It took me another few years, but when another Department wanted to hire me to run their OP's, suddenly I was re-evaluted and moved into a professional classification, based on work experience and performance. I figure my retirement is at least $10 K less than it would have been - and it's my fault..

Squankum: and with lasered sizes that you can't read...
Gerry, I learned the same lesson. One of my co-workers was going to the same night school but graduated long before me. The year he earned his degree he was promoted into a management position. Same thing happened to me but with 14 years experience in both software and hardware documentation, I had a pretty good idea what to do to motivate people who worked for me. The broad background in both disciplines got me a promotion to a middle management position three years later. It was not well received by some folks who thought it happened too fast. One of my departments earned the first and biggest group award for a library redesign in IBM history (IBM never gave out group awards before that one).
 
OP
B

Bob Heine

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
10,709
Location
Boca Raton, Florida
Broke down today and worked in the garage. Avoided anything involving heavy lifting but made a few small improvements. The three two-foot high end under-counter lights I found at a local ReStore outlet didn't fill the whole 15-foot space and I never found more of them. Broke down and bought some inexpensive 12-inch LED fixtures and added them to the existing string that turns on and off with the ceiling fixtures above the bench. The new fixtures are super bright white compared to the warmer old ones.
Workbench Ligthing Upgrade.jpg
While I was at it I cleaned up the bench, which was cluttered with the remnants of a dozen little projects. Got it down to a roasting pan and ice cube tray of hardware. The hardware in the ice cube tray is from the almost finished '87 Corvette engine upgrade project. While I was at it, I moved the old 12-inch fixture I converted to LED and use as a night light in the garage (it's never turned off). That meant moving all the Milwaukee tool holders closer to the front of the cabinets so they cleared the fixture. Even added another holder for the Milwaukee M12 soldering iron.
Workbench Ligthing Upgrade 2.jpg
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom