Have the electrician coming tomorrow need real time feedback

[z50]

Hey guys, I’m in the city so space is a crunch on building a 20 x 20 garage 12 foot high ceilings. I have the electrician coming tomorrow to go over the contract. I just want some feedback in real time if I could on what not to forget, I plan on putting a lift possibly for poster just because it’s easier to get up on, but maybe size may push me to do a two poster tell me what you think on that and what should I remember on electrical? I wanna do at least one 220 plug for a future welder. I plan on putting Plugs up high on the walls in case I want a television maybe some plugs on the ceiling in case I want some kind of a hoist to lift up storage or bicycle or mini bikes for possibly a small boat any feedback is welcomed please share your knowledge. I just don’t want to forget anything and regret it later.

 

[u2slow]

Have the panel surface-mounted, and then get the very minimum lights and plugs installed. Circuits are easy to add later (in conduit) when you get your welder and 2-post lift. That way there's nothing to forget or regret.

Or can do like I did and have the garage built to lockup with ZERO electrical. Helped me direct all my funds at the structure. Then DIY later as time and $ allow.

 

[z50]

Flush mount that’s a great idea. Actually, I could tuck it behind the sheet rock and then run some conduit up high near the ceiling that I could always bring circuits down into the panel easy enough that way I don’t have to have everything exposed down where I level is does that make sense? Are we on the same page?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

no not flush mounted, surface mounted. flush mount would be a pain to add conduit later.

 

[Innovate1]

Everything is going to need GFCI (might depend on local AHJ but most likely). They have to be able to be reset without ladders or other tools so for the ceiling ones you can use a GFCI receptacle or dead front at easy to reach level and then run to ceiling. Will depend on your budget but I would try to get the basic circuits run now before the wall sheeting is up. Will save a lot of conduit on the walls but I was trying to keep the wall mostly clean. I ran a 3/4 conduit to double box in each wall too (in the wall with conduit up to attic and over to panel) so I could add whatever was needed later. A box high on the wall is a good idea but you need to watch derating of wire for a bunch of them in a conduit - code has quite a bit of derating.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Since I have plywood walls in my shop, I made a flush removable panel from the plywood and screwed in place above my electrical panel for later access. It has come in quite handy for later additions.

 

[Innovate1]

I put the panel in a wall flush and ran an empty conduit to the attic. I need to add an RV receptacle near the OHD so I will add a surface conduit for the drop to the receptacle. Have cable so conduit the whole way isn't needed.

 

[LOW1]

Major issues I would worry about the most:

1. What size panel to get. Don’t skimp
2. How to get power to my lift. Floor outlet?
3. Getting enough overhead lighting. Better to “overlite” than “underlite”
4. Empty conduit for future expansions
5. Consider not finishing the walls completely until you have “lived in it” for awhile and can add what you forgot

 

[z50]

Everything is going to need GFCI (might depend on local AHJ but most likely). They have to be able to be reset without ladders or other tools so for the ceiling ones you can use a GFCI receptacle or dead front at easy to reach level and then run to ceiling. Will depend on your budget but I would try to get the basic circuits run now before the wall sheeting is up. Will save a lot of conduit on the walls but I was trying to keep the wall mostly clean. I ran a 3/4 conduit to double box in each wall too (in the wall with conduit up to attic and over to panel) so I could add whatever was needed later. A box high on the wall is a good idea but you need to watch derating of wire for a bunch of them in a conduit - code has quite a bit of derating.

I thought years ago you could put a GFCI on the first receptacle and then two or three down the line could be run from that that’s how we used to do it. Maybe it’s changed if that was the case I could put one that I could reset at high level and that could go up and feed the ones on the ceiling? Maybe it’s changed.

 

[u2slow]

I skipped GFCI in the garage. No permit, no problems.

 

[Innovate1]

I thought years ago you could put a GFCI on the first receptacle and then two or three down the line could be run from that that’s how we used to do it. Maybe it’s changed if that was the case I could put one that I could reset at high level and that could go up and feed the ones on the ceiling? Maybe it’s changed.

Yes, you just need one GFCI on a circuit - that can be a breaker or a receptacle. The devices after that are protected as well. That exactly what I was describing - the GFCI device low enough you can reach it to reset can feed higher receptacles. I needed to do this for a cord reel mounted high.

 

[mike93lx]

Yes, you just need one GFCI on a circuit - that can be a breaker or a receptacle. The devices after that are protected as well. That exactly what I was describing - the GFCI device low enough you can reach it to reset can feed higher receptacles. I needed to do this for a cord reel mounted high.

And to add, there is no limit to receptacles on a circuit or how many can be protected by a gfci

 

[svtride]

Also if your planning includes use of a VFD controlled machine, they do not like GFCI...

 

[z50]

Maybe I’m missing something but why would I need a variable control device or VFD machine in the garage?

 

[mike93lx]

Maybe I’m missing something but why would I need a variable control device or VFD machine in the garage?

You don't need one. But if you end up with any 3 phase equipment, a Vfd is a great way to generate 3 phase power and offer speed control

 

[z50]

Maybe I’m missing something but why would I need a variable control device or VFD machine in the garage?

I see maybe if I have woodworking equipment in there or some kind of a fan or maybe garage door opener it’s all new construction so I will have separate circuits for those things I would think

 

[BurtEggley]

I might consider some 4 receptacle outlets in strategic places.

 

[z50]

I might consider some 4 receptacle outlets in strategic places.

Yes, strategic places like where I told the electrician today I would like a receptacle every six or 8 feet on every wall, low chest high and up near the ceiling just in case I want a television up there a projector, some kind of electric hoist on the ceiling to lift some things up

 

[z50]

You don't need one. But if you end up with any 3 phase equipment, a Vfd is a great way to generate 3 phase power and offer speed control

I see yes no nothing that serious. It’s just a residential garage. I was just thinking maybe you guys would have insight on some stuff I plan on putting a 220 receptacle in case I ever wanna plug in a small welding machine I’m planning on possibly a four poster lift maybe I’ll put an extension cord on that with 220 that I can plug into the same boxand unplug. I’ll get one on wheels.

 

[dave*99]

I see yes no nothing that serious. It’s just a residential garage. I was just thinking maybe you guys would have insight on some stuff I plan on putting a 220 receptacle in case I ever wanna plug in a small welding machine I’m planning on possibly a four poster lift maybe I’ll put an extension cord on that with 220 that I can plug into the same boxand unplug. I’ll get one on wheels.

Plan carefully. A 4 post lift (or even a 2 post) could turn your 20x20 garage into a 1 car garage. My lift is powered from a junction box on the ceiling. 240V 30A circuit.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I have a 240 volt welder plug beside the garage door for welding outside when needed, and also a 120 GFCI receptacle. There is also an air hose reel overhead beside the door to allow pulling a hose outside.

 

[u2slow]

I see yes no nothing that serious. It’s just a residential garage. I was just thinking maybe you guys would have insight on some stuff I plan on putting a 220 receptacle in case I ever wanna plug in a small welding machine I’m planning on possibly a four poster lift maybe I’ll put an extension cord on that with 220 that I can plug into the same boxand unplug. I’ll get one on wheels.

Again, run the specialty circuits later.

You won't really know where things go in a new space until you start using it, and get the equipment.

Been using my shop for 12 years now, and think I might finally have the layout sorted.

 

[inphx]

the 220v welder plug... location, think on if it can also serve the EV car you will eventually have.

 

[NakeDiesel]

My shop has all the electrical ran in conduit from my surface mounted panel and outside the walls, except my honey room. In the honey room I put outlets 4' up the wall all around it with multiple circuits alternating breakers and the beginning run has a gfci outlet to start with. No gfci out in the main shop and all outlets are alternated what breaker they go to so I can have things plugged into 2 different outlets and not blow a breaker with too much load. Each junction has 4 outlets, outlets are every 4 or 5 feet along the walls. I have runs for my compressor, welder, 5 ton hvac as well. I have two outside outlets each between my 12x12 doors (3 of them), one goes up to a light at top and inside they are on gfci outlets. All my walls are covered in Ag panel steel in the main shop except where my workbench is, that wall has the slick wall board on the upper part to use as whiteboard. The honey room is built to commercial kitchen standards and all the walls and ceiling are covered in FRP. The floor in the main shop is concrete (wish I'd sealed it before I started using it 13 years ago, the honey room has VCT tiles installed in it along with the entry where my utility sink is and the bathroom.

I live in the middle of nowhere, so no permits, no contractors, just me as I had time to do it.

 

[NakeDiesel]

Oh, one little feature I just added is when I plumbed the 3 compartment sink in the honey room, I ran a 1/2" hot and cold line to valves for each, then merged them together and out thru the shop wall to a thru wall spigot, so I can have hot or cold water coming out of that faucet for when I'm mixing up large batches of sugar water for the bees in a 55 gallon barrel.

 

[dave*99]

I ran a 1/2" hot and cold line to valves for each, then merged them together and out thru the shop wall to a thru wall spigot, so I can have hot or cold water coming out of that faucet

I had a similar arrangement. This worked well.

 

[NakeDiesel]

This is my setup:

 

[z50]

Major issues I would worry about the most:

1. What size panel to get. Don’t skimp
2. How to get power to my lift. Floor outlet?
3. Getting enough overhead lighting. Better to “overlite” than “underlite”
4. Empty conduit for future expansions
5. Consider not finishing the walls completely until you have “lived in it” for awhile and can add what you forgot

Those are all great points. I did miss out on putting conduit in the floor. I was away when they poured the slab, but I figured I could put a 220 plug on the wall close to where the lift is going, maybe I could use that same plug for a welder extra lighting that’s huge. I forgot to tell the electrician that but my little shop now I’m forever plugging in lights and trying to see! As I stated, I am doing a row of receptacles down low all the way around the perimeter one up about 6 feet high all the way around and another set of receptacles around the top rim of the space this way I can plug in 4 foot LEDs wherever I want them and run them, low medium, and high all the way around

 

[z50]

I have a 240 volt welder plug beside the garage door for welding outside when needed, and also a 120 GFCI receptacle. There is also an air hose reel overhead beside the door to allow pulling a hose outside.

I like the air hose idea I think I will hard pipe some black iron to get over to where the compressor may land and get it close to the door

 

[OccupantRJ]

I like the air hose idea I think I will hard pipe some black iron to get over to where the compressor may land and get it close to the door

I actually got inspired by posting to this thread enough to go out and run a bit of pipe inside my storage barn next to my shop to provide an additional air supply for mower tires and painting small items on occasion. I had originally run underground piping to the building in 2010 and stubbed it up, so occasionally “Round Tuits” do actually get done. I had some short sections of 1/4 screw pipe and QD already stored in the barn, so that is what got used.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Amazingly, after 15 years, hardly anything came out of the air pipe when purging it. I am going to keep a high volume blower on it now to keep it purged occasionally. It should come in handy overall in that building.

 

[sz0k30]

A lift in a 20 x 20 garage?

 

[Aaron_W]

There are a bunch of different 240v outlet styles. If you have them install a a 240v for future use with a welder it seems like NEMA 6-50 is the standard for most welders, and a 50amp circuit should work for most home size welders, although many of the newer invertor type welders require less. TIG and MIG welders also tend to draw less power than a similar size stick welder. I have a 220A multipurpose welder, the MIG and TIG side only requires a 30A circuit, but the stick requires 40A.

You can also put duplex outlets on 240v circuits up to 20amp which can be handy for smaller 240v machines (2-3hp motors) as it can reduce the need for plug swapping.

 

[z50]

A lift in a 20 x 20 garage?

Yes, a lift in a 20 x 20 garage. I’m sorry I don’t have farm land like some people here. I’m literally in the city of boston one of the most congested and expensive places to live in the whole planet so I am thrilled with 20 x 20 for now did you wanna add any constructive information to this or just judgmental?

 

[z50]

There are a bunch of different 240v outlet styles. If you have them install a a 240v for future use with a welder it seems like NEMA 6-50 is the standard for most welders, and a 50amp circuit should work for most home size welders, although many of the newer invertor type welders require less. TIG and MIG welders also tend to draw less power than a similar size stick welder. I have a 220A multipurpose welder, the MIG and TIG side only requires a 30A circuit, but the stick requires 40A.

You can also put duplex outlets on 240v circuits up to 20amp which can be handy for smaller 240v machines (2-3hp motors) as it can reduce the need for plug swapping.

All great information thank you what I wanna do is get a plug that works for the 220 V lift and hopefully get any kind of welder that I might do a small project with that has the same plug. I don’t know if that’s possible.

 

[z50]

I actually got inspired by posting to this thread enough to go out and run a bit of pipe inside my storage barn next to my shop to provide an additional air supply for mower tires and painting small items on occasion. I had originally run underground piping to the building in 2010 and stubbed it up, so occasionally “Round Tuits” do actually get done. I had some short sections of 1/4 screw pipe and QD already stored in the barn, so that is what got used.

Yes, now is the time to do it while everything is open better have it and not need it then need it and not have it!

 

[strength_and_power]

From what I’ve seen, most lifts are 110 but they do want a dedicated 20amp circuit.

A 220v extension cord, usually 6/3 isn’t crazy expensive, a single strategically placed 220 outlet and a 25’ cord would get your welder to any part of the shop.

I did a similar set up with high and low outlets. I call my high outlets the BL ( beer light) circuit in which I have some lighted signs etc around the shop. They are on a switch at the door so I can kill them all without walking to each sign.

Let’s see some pics of the shop

 

[z50]

Yup that’s what I was thinking I know body shops. Also use lights on the walls because it’s the angles are better for looking up the body I guess, but I could also have some neon or whatever else I need great idea about the lights

 

[z50]

 

[z50]

From what I’ve seen, most lifts are 110 but they do want a dedicated 20amp circuit.

A 220v extension cord, usually 6/3 isn’t crazy expensive, a single strategically placed 220 outlet and a 25’ cord would get your welder to any part of the shop.

I did a similar set up with high and low outlets. I call my high outlets the BL ( beer light) circuit in which I have some lighted signs etc around the shop. They are on a switch at the door so I can kill them all without walking to each sign.

Let’s see some pics of the shop