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Best Liquid To Use With Aluminum in Ultrasonic Cleaner?

hailwood1965

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I've been reading waay too much on aluminum in ultrasonic cleaners and am now more confused than ever. I want to clean a set of old motorcycle carbs in an ultrasonic cleaner. But I really don't want to buy the $$$$ ultrasonic liquid. I also don't want the carbs to come out looking very scaley as they can sometimes with the white mildew looking powder on them that will NOT go away.

I'm leaning towards distilled water and ... (?).

Suggestions welcome.

Here are some links if anyone wants to be as confused as I am.


 
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Beerhippie

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I'm not sure what the writer of that second article is thinking. Ultrasonic cleaner work by causing cavitation--that's the cleaning action.

Old carb bodies aren't pure aluminum. They're some kind of alloy that seems to contain a fair bit of zinc. I'd be seriously concerned with cavitation causing pitting where the zinc has already started to break down.

One test of the effectiveness of a US cleaner is to fill it with water and put a piece of aluminum foil in it for a few minutes. If it's working well, it will blow pinholes all over the foil--from cavitation, not chemicals.

Maybe someone who's actually cleaned carb bodies in a US cleaner can step up.
 

crerus75

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I've cleaned carb bodies and a bunch of other stuff in ultrasonic cleaners. Here's what I recommend.

1. Pre clean the carbs as much as possible. If they're covered in oil, grease, dirt, etc. all it does is foul the solution and inhibit cleaning, not to mention that the non-soluble bits like sand and grit can get re-deposited inside nooks and crannies in the carbs. I like to pre-clean in a 5 gallon bucket, using undiluted cleaner and a stiff paintbrush. Knock off the big chunks and then rinse with water.

2. Disassemble as much as possible. Take out the pilot screws, main jets, etc. DEFINITELY remove the rubber diaphragms if these are flat-slide carbs, and remove any other non-metal bits you want to salvage.

3. Ideally, clean the small, critical bits like jets first. You can use a tea strainer to hold them and keep them from bouncing all over creation. If anything in there is really delicate-- a very fine pilot screw, for example-- clean it by hand. Parts can make contact in an ultrasonic cleaner and be damaged, though I've never had it happen to me.

4. When cleaning anything, you're probably going to be using a 10-20% solution of some type of cleaner in water. Get the water as hot as you possibly can beforehand. I boil it in a kettle or the microwave to get it as close to boiling as possible. Hot water cleans much better, especially when you're talking about petroleum-based deposits. Obviously if you're cleaning anything heat sensitive (some plastics, etc.) you may have to reduce the temperatures to what the material will handle, but this isn't a problem for metal carb parts.

5. For cleaners, keep away from anything with lye or any of the "purple" cleaners. These are very caustic and will etch (and eventually dissolve) aluminum. I watched a set of aluminum brake calipers actually froth when I tossed them in a bucket of Purple Power. I knew this would happen so I cleaned them very quickly and rinsed them thoroughly with no ill effects. I would NOT do the same thing with carb bodies, no matter how short the duration.

6. For carbs, I have used LA's Totally Awesome Cleaner from the dollar store, Simple Green, Oil Eater, dish detergent, and Pine Sol, to name a few. Pine Sol works well but it will leave your garage smelling like pine for eternity. I prefer LAs Totally Awesome because it's cheap and works reasonably well if mixed strong (15-20% by eye) with very hot water. Oil Eater seems to remove heavy deposits better but not every place sells it. Common dish detergent has a lot of surfactants in it which are good for removing particulates like dirt and grime, but not as good at dissolving fuel. Dish detergent is really optimized for breaking down things like food proteins. It can work in a hot solution and is fine if it's all you have, but you may have to scrub a little more by hand. Simple Green is OK-- no better than LAs Totally Awesome and more expensive, but works fine if you have it around. Any of these may cause staining of the carb bodies, which will have a mottled, darkish appearance when removed from the ultrasonic. This is just a possible side effect of cleaning carbs in any water-soluble solvent at higher temps. The staining doesn't affect function and is no big deal (to me at least).

7. Clean the carbs in 5 or 10 minute intervals, checking after each one to see how clean it is. I've never had a carb body get damaged in the ultrasonic cleaner but you still need to be careful. You will still have to make sure every small passage is clear because there just isn't enough room in those tiny orifices for solvent to get in and break up hard varnish, etc. An ultrasonic cleaner gets you about 90% of the way there but you might need to chase the passages out with thin wires or tip cleaners. Blow each one out, then blow them out again.

Most ultrasonic cleaners won't handle more than one or two carbs. If you're doing a rack of 4 carbs, an alternative is to dunk them in a Goodwill or yard sale crock pot overnight. Fill it with water and 10-20% of your favorite cleaner, put the carbs and parts in, let it cook on medium until the next day. Make sure all the carbs are completely submerged and make sure the lid is on to limit evaporation. Again, the carb bodies may come out discolored but they'll be very clean.

If in doubt, practice on a junk carb, scrap aluminum casting, etc. until you dial it in. Hope this helps.
 

Beerhippie

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Nice write-up, @crerus75 !

One thing I'll disagree with, from experience, is dishwasher detergent. Its main ingredient is sodium carbonate (washing soda), which can attack aluminum. I've had problems with it in the past--but not with carb bodies, 'cause I don't clean those.

As for physical damage from contact with other parts, that's a real problem. We use a 12 gal., 1,200 Watt US cleaner for the brewery parts. Our brewers have managed to destroy some expensive pieces of glass (flow glasses) and carbonation/O2 "stones"--made form finely sintered stainless steel and intended to produce tiny bubbles. If either are in contact with anything else in the cleaner, the glass gets frosted and the stones burnished.
 

rust in the eye

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Last edited:

rust in the eye

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Nice write-up, @crerus75 !

One thing I'll disagree with, from experience, is dishwasher detergent. Its main ingredient is sodium carbonate (washing soda), which can attack aluminum. I've had problems with it in the past--but not with carb bodies, 'cause I don't clean those.

As for physical damage from contact with other parts, that's a real problem. We use a 12 gal., 1,200 Watt US cleaner for the brewery parts. Our brewers have managed to destroy some expensive pieces of glass (flow glasses) and carbonation/O2 "stones"--made form finely sintered stainless steel and intended to produce tiny bubbles. If either are in contact with anything else in the cleaner, the glass gets frosted and the stones burnished.
Oh boy do I know about that! Put some of Mrs. Rust's aluminun cookware in the dishwasher, ONCE.
 

Grant Gunderson

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I’ve had both dawn soap and aircraft grade simple green syrup anodized aluminum in the ultrasonic. Eben short times cause the anodizing to fade.

Curious to see what others have found be safe for AL and a good degreaser.
 

PWC Repair

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I do it ALL THE TIME......Mikuni and Keihin jet ski carbs. I crank the heat up and use about 1/4 cup of 'Awesome' cleaner to 2 gallons water. Really bad ones might need two of the 30min cycles.
 

seber

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I haven't tried it but why not just use that carburetor cleaner that comes in a one gallon can?
 

Rinspeed

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I have cleaned probably 40 carbs in sonics using tap water with Dawn soap at 5-10% and it works just fine. You can use distilled water but it is harder to cavitate than tap water. For the best results you want the water temp to be at least 140°.
 

PWC Repair

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I have cleaned probably 40 carbs in sonics using tap water with Dawn soap at 5-10% and it works just fine. You can use distilled water but it is harder to cavitate than tap water. For the best results you want the water temp to be at least 140°.
My well water is pretty 'hard'. I think that actually helps it. I run mine up to 150*F.
 
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crerus75

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Nice write-up, @crerus75 !

One thing I'll disagree with, from experience, is dishwasher detergent. Its main ingredient is sodium carbonate (washing soda), which can attack aluminum. I've had problems with it in the past--but not with carb bodies, 'cause I don't clean those.
Thanks for the compliment.

What you're saying about sodium carbonate is true for the detergent used inside your dishwasher like Cascade. I wasn't clear enough but I was referring to liquid dish soap like Dawn, which is a real witches' brew of chemicals but does not (from what I can see in the SDS, anyway) contain sodium carbonate. In my experience, liquid dish soap isn't reactive with light metals in the concentrations used in an ultrasonic cleaner. It's cheap, easily available, and works reasonably well, though it doesn't work as well as some of the other cleaners.
I don't see why this evil brew couldn't be used in an ultrasonic cleaner; https://www.berrymanproducts.com/pr...rryman-chem-dip-carburetor-and-parts-cleaner/
The above works great and is made specifically for carburetors. No worry about harming the metal but it will, given enough time remove the (anodized?) coating on some. Use gloves as it really is nasty stuff.
I only used the old (cresylic acid-based) formulation of Chem-Dip. I have no experience with the new stuff but I think it's been heavily reformulated. The old stuff worked well but had to be rinsed very thoroughly from carb parts. I've found that really hot water and LA's Totally Awesome is enough for any carb that I need to work on, but perhaps a really gunked up specimen with lots of varnish in it would be better served with Chem-Dip. If anyone tries it in an ultrasonic cleaner, let us know.
 

L.Cheapo

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I haven't tried it but why not just use that carburetor cleaner that comes in a one gallon can?
When I worked in a shop in the 90s, that's what we used. It worked well.

I bought the same can in the 2000s, and it was "reformulated" to be more environmentally friendly. In other words, it was about as effective as water.
 

Beerhippie

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Thanks for the compliment.

What you're saying about sodium carbonate is true for the detergent used inside your dishwasher like Cascade. I wasn't clear enough but I was referring to liquid dish soap like Dawn, which is a real witches' brew of chemicals but does not (from what I can see in the SDS, anyway) contain sodium carbonate. In my experience, liquid dish soap isn't reactive with light metals in the concentrations used in an ultrasonic cleaner. It's cheap, easily available, and works reasonably well, though it doesn't work as well as some of the other cleaners.

I only used the old (cresylic acid-based) formulation of Chem-Dip. I have no experience with the new stuff but I think it's been heavily reformulated. The old stuff worked well but had to be rinsed very thoroughly from carb parts. I've found that really hot water and LA's Totally Awesome is enough for any carb that I need to work on, but perhaps a really gunked up specimen with lots of varnish in it would be better served with Chem-Dip. If anyone tries it in an ultrasonic cleaner, let us know.
I may have misread your post. It wouldn't be the first time and likely won't be the last.

I use Dawn for all my delicate cleaning. The only thing it seems to be hard on is some silk-screened logo plates on some tools. I haven't found anything that won't damage the grade-school finger-paint they use on those.
 

crerus75

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I may have misread your post. It wouldn't be the first time and likely won't be the last.

I use Dawn for all my delicate cleaning. The only thing it seems to be hard on is some silk-screened logo plates on some tools. I haven't found anything that won't damage the grade-school finger-paint they use on those.
Yeah, same here. The silkscreened writing on older Tektronix scopes is particularly fragile for some reason. Even plain water will sometimes remove it. Found that one out the hard way, unfortunately.

One thing I forgot to mention before is that I keep some glass jars around (like for tomato sauce) with different solvents in them. I fill the ultrasonic cleaner with plain water and then put the parts to be cleaned inside the jar, then the jar goes in the ultrasonic. This makes it easier to change the cleaning solution out when it gets dirty. Dump out the jar and refill. They say glass works best but I've also used plastic tubs, etc. and they also seem to work OK. Keep the water level as high as possible around whatever container you use.

This won't work for carb bodies as they typically don't fit inside the jar, but it's great for smaller parts. It's also a good way to use the ultrasonic cleaner with things like Evaporust, vinegar, oil-based solvents, etc. You can swap jars out without risk of cross-contamination.
 

Beerhippie

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Yeah, same here. The silkscreened writing on older Tektronix scopes is particularly fragile for some reason. Even plain water will sometimes remove it. Found that one out the hard way, unfortunately.

One thing I forgot to mention before is that I keep some glass jars around (like for tomato sauce) with different solvents in them. I fill the ultrasonic cleaner with plain water and then put the parts to be cleaned inside the jar, then the jar goes in the ultrasonic. This makes it easier to change the cleaning solution out when it gets dirty. Dump out the jar and refill. They say glass works best but I've also used plastic tubs, etc. and they also seem to work OK. Keep the water level as high as possible around whatever container you use.

This won't work for carb bodies as they typically don't fit inside the jar, but it's great for smaller parts. It's also a good way to use the ultrasonic cleaner with things like Evaporust, vinegar, oil-based solvents, etc. You can swap jars out without risk of cross-contamination.
Before washing with Dawn and a soft nylon brush:

54014576215_f50bba6f08_o.jpg

After:

54078936169_43360c7f7a_o.jpg

As for the different containers for stuff in the US, I do the same, but use various-sized plastic tubs and buckets. For one thing, the US cleaner I use is the parts washer for the brewery--if I contaminate that, it's worth my life. For another, use just as much solution as you need for the parts. I can also be cleaning several different parts in different solutions at the same time.

I've been informed that plastic won't work as it dampens the US action. I beg to differ.
 

seber

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Before washing with Dawn and a soft nylon brush:

54014576215_f50bba6f08_o.jpg

After:

54078936169_43360c7f7a_o.jpg

As for the different containers for stuff in the US, I do the same, but use various-sized plastic tubs and buckets. For one thing, the US cleaner I use is the parts washer for the brewery--if I contaminate that, it's worth my life. For another, use just as much solution as you need for the parts. I can also be cleaning several different parts in different solutions at the same time.

I've been informed that plastic won't work as it dampens the US action. I beg to differ.
If you think that's bad, try washing the face of Miller welder.
 

Rinspeed

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I haven't tried it but why not just use that carburetor cleaner that comes in a one gallon can?





If you want to try one of the best surfactants made for sonics it's Brulin 815GD. Just like most chemicals though it's gotten rather pricey in the last several years.
 

Beerhippie

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If you want to try one of the best surfactants made for sonics it's Brulin 815GD. Just like most chemicals though it's gotten rather pricey in the last several years.
Another reason to use a container just big enough for the job, floated in hot water in the US cleaner. Saves on chems, and if you use a reclosable container, you can use them over again until they're used up.
 

Rinspeed

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Another reason to use a container just big enough for the job, floated in hot water in the US cleaner. Saves on chems, and if you use a reclosable container, you can use them over again until they're used up.





I agree but as I've said before you really should try a glass beaker for best results.
 
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